Gay Christians

[ViaCrucis]

Sounds confusing. Orientation leads to action. Jesus says, thoughts are sin as well, not only acting on them.

I see absolutely no harm in having either orientation or so oriented action.

From what I see, stigmatization due to religious condemnation results in alll sorts of problems. That’s the real issue here…

Again, I'm not allowed to contribute anything of substance to this discussion. I don't disagree with you, but I can't say anything more than that without getting in trouble or risking having the thread shut down.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[returntosender]

Interestingly, my daughter and I decided to visit a Methodist Church we had spent many years with. Many years had passed since then. It was a gay service. We were shocked. I don't know how we came to the conclusion that they loan the church out to gay services ran by a gay head. It's been several years since that visit. That may have been an assumption on our part. So it has been working with the Methodist Church here for at least 20 years

 

[hedrick]

Sounds confusing. Orientation leads to action. Jesus says, thoughts are sin as well, not only acting on them.

I see absolutely no harm in having either orientation or so oriented action.

From what I see, stigmatization due to religious condemnation results in alll sorts of problems. That’s the real issue here…

I think Mat 5 is better read as intent counted as sin. Being attracted to someone without the intent to do anything about it is almost certainly not what he meant in Mat 5:28.

 

[Sketcher]

It’s been proven it’s genetic.

Last I heard there was no genetic determinism for homosexual orientation. If there were to be though, it wouldn't justify homosexual relationships or hookups. There are other sins that are passed on from parents to their children, and whether or not that comes from nature or nurture doesn't impact whether or not we should commit them. And more generally than that, people have a sinful nature, out of which sin manifests in our lives.

Homosexual behaviour has been observed by biologists in many hundreds of animal species, are they also being punished?

The mating rituals of many animal species would be rightly prosecuted as crimes when attempted by humans, so I don't consider animal behavior a good metric for how humans ought to behave.

 

[stevevw]

There seem to be more and more churches that are willing to see being gay as ok and also offer gay marriage. For example the Methodists in the UK recently voted to support gay marriage.

I know there are two sides in this debate and both have their own way of interpreting scripture and understanding the context of the various Bible passages.

I was talking to a Methodist lay preacher earlier, he is going to stop his preaching and probably join a different church.

My question is.... Are these disagreements going to radically change more and more churches with new churches splitting off into for and against groups. Is Christianity heading into a totally new future?

I think LGBTI is one of the biggest issues facing the church and society for that matter. Its a complicated and delicate issue. I think if Christ was around the church should be open to welcoming anyone.

Paul made a point that we are in a spiritual battle for our souls. He talked about the sins of the flesh and how we need to be renewed spiritually so we can break the chains sin has over us. It wasn't about being homosexual but rather a state of a persons heart.

The sins Paul mentions in 1 Corinthians 6:9-11 are just symptoms of living according to the fleshly desires of this world. So it doesn't matter what sin.

So I guess anyone can be saved and we all have sinned in one way or another and sin is sin and it seperates us from God. Therefore we all need to be transformed regardless of what sin we may have committed. That transformation may be different in each person and it is the spirit that will convict a person as to their conscience.

I don't think homosexual attraction is a sin itself but like all sinners especially when it comes to sex as this is the most powerful influence need to follow Gods laws which includes treating sex as a sacred thing and therefore we need to have some control and not be conformed to how this world treats sex regardless of orientation.

 

[The Narrow Way]

Give it one or two more generations and church will be 100% pro-gay. Same way as it happened with slavery, for example, or corporal punishment of children, or is happening with female church ministers etc. As soon as the vast majority of society becomes pro-gay, church will follow. Evolution of religion: it adapts or dies. There could linger small pockets of anti-gay opposition for some time, to disappear eventually.

This is if we assume Christianity’s prevalence in the traditionally Christian countries. I do not exclude Islam slowly taking over in those lands.

I don't believe that will ever happen. For one, Homosexuality is against NATURE...it will never be accepted amongst those who are true lovers of the Bible. God Himself condemns it, and those who love God should do the same. That doesn't mean you condemn the person....we must learn to love the sinner and hate the sin.

 

[All Glory To God]

@Tellyontellyon to answer your question, yes it is a major change for the church. Reason being is to tell unrepentant sinners (homosexuals) they are part of the body of Christ is effectively declaring people no longer need to be born again. If people do not repent of their sin and unbelief they are still in the flesh and these apostate churches that tell homosexuals and other unsaved sinners they no longer have to bow the knee to Christ in submission, they are leading people to hell.

Another problem is the actual born again Christians cannot call each other to holiness through mutual accountability....... because the (apostate) church has declared no need for a denial of sin. So the unregenerate sinners are not called to repentance and the saints have been betrayed.

Sin is destructive. Sin brings death in this life and the next. So for the (apostate) Pastors to pretend the lethal power of sin no longer commands respect from Gods creatures is simply teaching something that is wicked as hell. It's not loving to tell homosexuals they are right with God when in fact the wrath of God abides over them for their unrepentant sin. They will be judged for this and condemned. So the loving thing to do is to be real about the situation and explain they must repent or face the eternal consequences. Until that time, they are not part of the church so membership should be reserved only for the saints.

Yes, allowing unrepentant sinners into the community and making no distinction between the lost and saved is a big problem.