GAP Creationism VS YEC & OEC Creationism

[createdtoworship]

If you use the theory of gravity to say that you should throw people from skyscrapers, or germ theory to say that you ought to infect every left-handed person with pox... then you would be a "reprobate mind".

Well on the other hand, if the theory doesn't coincide with the output of the world view then you would be of a reprobate mind. However hitler did kill the weakest to support the strongest, which is survival of the fittest. You can't say He was wrong. Because that would be a moral statement. He is not a reprobate mind because he used his theory of evolution to kill. Which is a major concept of evolution. The killing of the weak to support the strong.

 

[createdtoworship]

That might be difficult for you to accept, but the Theory of Evolution does not make any statements about the treatment of races.

The Theory of Evolution is a scientific description of how life propagates, changes and adapts. If someone uses it to make any prescriptions about how to behave, what "races" to kill or favour, or to make statements about "superiority"... he does no longer use the Theory of Evolution.

Darwin's book was one of the books Hitler had burned. Do you think he did that because he loved Darwin?

survival of the fittest right? So when hitler killed those who were handicapped, he was following His world view to the T. As the economy could not support financially the mentally deformed or handicapped. It's really survival of the fittest without any framework of morals. Morals come from religion alone, not science right?

 

[Freodin]

thats a moral statement, so you are using morals within a framework that doesn't support moral truth - Evolution.

No. I am using morals. Evolution is not a "framework" for dealing with such questions, so I don't use it as such.

survival of the fittest right? So when hitler killed those who were handicapped, he was following His world view to the T.

Can you see the difference between a description and a prescription?

The theory of evolution says: if you have a lot of offspring, your attributes will spread through the next generations. Thus, attributes that are more likely to ensure a lot of offspring will propagate.

It does NOT say: kill those that you think are weaker than you. If you can kill them, it means you are "the fittest".


ETA: I see that you changed your posts quite a bit. It is too late here for me to respond to them in this way. I'm off for the night. Let's see if we can make progress tomorrow.

 

[createdtoworship]

No. I am using morals. Evolution is not a "framework" for dealing with such questions, so I don't use it as such.


Can you see the difference between a description and a prescription?

The theory of evolution says: if you have a lot of offspring, your attributes will spread through the next generations. Thus, attributes that are more likely to ensure a lot of offspring will propagate.

It does NOT say: kill those that you think are weaker than you. If you can kill them, it means you are "the fittest".

survival of the fittest was a synonym for natural selection according to Darwin (late editions of Origin). Darwinism, united with social theories, became Social Darwinism, which in turn included Eugenics. It is very difficult to remove the early theories of survival of the fittest from the early theories of natural selection which is the primary mechanism of evolution.

http://www.gty.org/Resources/Articles/A150_Evolution-and-Ethics#.TmVcc3CwWP0

http://www.lavoisier.fr/livre/notice.asp?id=RKOW26AXAO3OWE

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_Darwinism

http://autocww.colorado.edu/~toldy2/E64ContentFiles/SociologyAndReform/SocialDarwinism.html

 

[Nathan Poe]

survival of the fittest was a synonym for natural selection according to Darwin (late editions of Origin). Darwinism, united with social theories, became Social Darwinism, which in turn included Eugenics.

And Christianity, united with social theories, became the Crusades, the Inquisition, Witch-burnings, McCarthyism, etc, etc....

Some thing shouldn't be united, should they?

 

[createdtoworship]

And Christianity, united with social theories, became the Crusades, the Inquisition, Witch-burnings, McCarthyism, etc, etc....

Some thing shouldn't be united, should they?

again as I said before Christianity united with social movements has provided abolition, human rights, help for the poor and other benefits. Look at the great political Christians of all time....

st thomas aquinas
st augustine
john locke
and countless other Christians that played a role in reforming the worlds social structures.

have you ever heard of social justice?

there really is no comparison between Christianity and Evolution as far as "in Public"

secondly all of your list included catholic sources not Christian, and macarthyism was a political movement that was not religious at all.

 

[Nathan Poe]

have you ever heard of social justice?

Have you heard of the Religious Right calling it a code word for Socialism?

 

[createdtoworship]

Have you heard of the Religious Right calling it a code word for Socialism?

true. but there are Christians on the right too. Pushing for conservative values. So you can't win. You can love your neighbor all kinds of ways. From the right or from the left.

 

[Jazer]

And Christianity, united with social theories, became the Crusades, the Inquisition, Witch-burnings, McCarthyism, etc, etc....

Some thing shouldn't be united, should they?

What did Atheism give us? Slaughter after slaughter after slaughter. In Romania, Cambodia, Germany, just to name a few. Much less the mass carnage atheism gives us in Africa. Christianity kills off a few hundred and Atheism kills of mass millions of people. The scale is so far off of balance that there is almost no comparison at all.

 

[USincognito]

it doesn't, it just proves evolution to be socially in apt

inept is the word you are looking for.

I think the fact that a Norwegien is correcting an American on the use of an English term is all we need to know about gradyll's contribution to this discussion.

 

[createdtoworship]

I think the fact that a Norwegien is correcting an American on the use of an English term is all we need to know about gradyll's contribution to this discussion.

when we go to belittling, then we know the conversation is over. In my favor that is.

 

[TheReasoner]

evolution doesn't acknowledge reprobate minds because all morals are relative to the situation.

Evolution does not say that. You're talking about moral relativism. Evolution like other scientific theories does not have a moral component.

I guess I would say if christianity is abused, then it's a different Christ they are worshiping. Because the way is narrow and the gate is straight.

Sure. But the same is in a way true for evolution. If someone says that evolution makes a moral prediction, then that person is wrong the same way that if someone says it's okay for a Christian to worship both money and God that person is wrong.

So even if someone were to use Evolution to justify genocide that is abusing evolution the same way that if someone were to use Christianity that way would be.

 

[mzungu]

What did Atheism give us? Slaughter after slaughter after slaughter. In Romania, Cambodia, Germany, just to name a few. Much less the mass carnage atheism gives us in Africa. Christianity kills off a few hundred and Atheism kills of mass millions of people. The scale is so far off of balance that there is almost no comparison at all.

You know what they say about bearing false witness don't you!

 

[createdtoworship]

So even if someone were to use Evolution to justify genocide that is abusing evolution the same way that if someone were to use Christianity that way would be.

but Christianity has morals so it can make the distinction. Evolution does not. And can not. So someone can twist evolution far easier than christianity.

 

[Freodin]

but Christianity has morals so it can make the distinction. Evolution does not. And can not. So someone can twist evolution far easier than christianity.

But this someone is twisting evolution nontheless. And "easier", it is only in the minds of those who don't understand it.

 

[TheReasoner]

but Christianity has morals so it can make the distinction. Evolution does not. And can not. So someone can twist evolution far easier than christianity.

The same is true for the color blue.
Besides, we use evolution as a tool to do great good as well. Just like classical mechanics or chemistry - which are both just objective observations without a moral component. You can use those to make guns, but also fertilizer, clothes, medicine... The same is true for evolution. It can be used and it can be abused. But in itself it is neither good nor evil.

 

[createdtoworship]

The same is true for the color blue.
Besides, we use evolution as a tool to do great good as well. Just like classical mechanics or chemistry - which are both just objective observations without a moral component. You can use those to make guns, but also fertilizer, clothes, medicine... The same is true for evolution.

what is one good thing evolution has provided? Besides the guns of evolution has killed far more than anything a gun manufacturer could produce.

 

[createdtoworship]

But this someone is twisting evolution nontheless. And "easier", it is only in the minds of those who don't understand it.

whenever there is a non moral framework, it's relatively easy to hang your morals on it. Whether good or bad, in this case extremely bad (social darwinism). You can't do that with Christianity.

 

[mzungu]

but Christianity has morals so it can make the distinction. Evolution does not. And can not. So someone can twist evolution far easier than christianity.

Evolution is a PROCESS! it cannot possibly have MORALS! Do you even know what EVOLUTION IS???????

 

[createdtoworship]

Evolution is a PROCESS! it cannot possibly have MORALS! Do you even know what EVOLUTION IS???????

No one is saying it does. But when you have a non moral framework you have social darwinists that are attracted and thus hang their negative values on it. You can't do that with Christianity.