GAP Creationism VS YEC & OEC Creationism

[Freodin]

Yeah I read that, I was confused about it. But communism is still way off. Why would they call it the communist holocaust if they were left wing. I am confused.

The Darwinian foundation of communism

Well... a creationist website might not be the best information base for political systems or terminology.

Fascism in itself is not necessarily racist. It is nationalistic, but the racist extremism of German National Socialism was a concept of its own. It was based on many things: a concept of "race" that was vastly different from Darwins view, as well as a certain understanding of Christian theology.

I know that you dislike Evolution, but if you were to research it (and Nazism) closely, you would see that it misapplied evolution in the same way as it misapplied Christianity.

You said "Christianity by definition is loving not hateful and arrogant".
Well, Evolution is by definition NOT PRESCRIPTIVE. If you try to get rules of how to act from the Theory of Evolution, you are doing it wrong.


Communism now has nothing to do with race or nation - or biology! - at all. It is a social system, dealing with different social groups and trying to achive the "perfect" social culture... in steps. One of the first steps is the "dictatorship of the proletariate", the rule of the workers over the capitalists. No communist state ever managed to get beyond that state... the very basic system is flawed. It cannot work.

What this "dictatorship of the workers" did achive was a massive disruption of the economy. There were quite a number of killings in the communist states - against real or perceived enemies of the system - but the "holocaust" was not indended. People starved because the new system wasn't able to feed them.

 

[Freodin]

During a debate with Farrell Till, Hovind made the following claim about Donald Johanson: "[He] found the leg bones of Lucy a mile and a half away from the head bones. The leg bones were 200 feet deeper in a deeper layer of strata. I would like to know how fast the train was going that hit that chimpanzee."
-kent hovind quotes

That is a quote from the Hovind wiki page. It continues: "According to Donald Johanson, this is false; and although Hovind has been informed of this, he continues to make the statement."

 

[TheReasoner]

because Christianity by definition is loving not hateful and arrogant, read first john.

Sure. But ToE has nothing to do with social darwinism and eugenics. It's only a description of observed facts. And Christianity can be abused, yes. Even though it is supposed to be loving many Christians are hateful and vile. Evolution - like gravity - does not claim any moral ground, and makes no moral predictions or advice. It's just an observation. Can it be abused? Yes. But anything can.

If you have not love you are not his disciple. Your comparison is way off. Evolution has it's roots in biogenesis mainly, that we have evolved from primordial soup.

biogenesis? I think you are talking about abiogenesis, and evolution does not have it's root in that. They are two - so far - unrelated theories. The origin of life vs. the evolution of life that is already around- And even if we have evolved from some basic creature a couple of billion year back, then so what? God is still God. If He chose to create us that way, does it make Him less great? Of course not. He said He made us from the dirt, and what is the dirt except various minerals crawling with life? Could it not be an image of a gradual process God used?
So what's the problem? It does not exclude love. It does not.

No morals and life is meaningless. No hope. With that world view anything is okay, nothing is wrong. All is relative.

No, that is just propaganda. Evolution does not talk about morals, but that does not mean it excludes or removes them. As Freodin said: It is not prescriptive.

I thought christian was right wing?

Nah. Christianity isn't really political - most would say. It's about loving, and you can do that left or right. Personally I'd say it's left wing though.
Why? Because it focuses on the poor, the downtrodden, the weak and the forgotten. Which is also what left wing politics is about: Helping the weakest. That isn't to say some don't mess that up. Of course many do. But the driving force seems similar: Help those who need help. Some want that out of love, others out of a sense of wrongness or injustice. But I'd say the goals are pretty much the same. Wouldn't you?

 

[createdtoworship]

That is a quote from the Hovind wiki page. It continues: "According to Donald Johanson, this is false; and although Hovind has been informed of this, he continues to make the statement."

whats false about it

 

[createdtoworship]

The more I read about Hitler it sounded like he was his own political party, not right not left, he was out woods somewhere. But according to wikipedia he was definitely not right wing.

Adolf Hitler's political views - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[createdtoworship]

Sure. But ToE has nothing to do with social darwinism and eugenics. It's only a description of observed facts. And Christianity can be abused, yes. Even though it is supposed to be loving many Christians are hateful and vile. Evolution - like gravity - does not claim any moral ground, and makes no moral predictions or advice. It's just an observation. Can it be abused? Yes. But anything can.

biogenesis? I think you are talking about abiogenesis, and evolution does not have it's root in that. They are two - so far - unrelated theories. The origin of life vs. the evolution of life that is already around- And even if we have evolved from some basic creature a couple of billion year back, then so what? God is still God. If He chose to create us that way, does it make Him less great? Of course not. He said He made us from the dirt, and what is the dirt except various minerals crawling with life? Could it not be an image of a gradual process God used?
So what's the problem? It does not exclude love. It does not.


No, that is just propaganda. Evolution does not talk about morals, but that does not mean it excludes or removes them. As Freodin said: It is not prescriptive.


Nah. Christianity isn't really political - most would say. It's about loving, and you can do that left or right. Personally I'd say it's left wing though.
Why? Because it focuses on the poor, the downtrodden, the weak and the forgotten. Which is also what left wing politics is about: Helping the weakest. That isn't to say some don't mess that up. Of course many do. But the driving force seems similar: Help those who need help. Some want that out of love, others out of a sense of wrongness or injustice. But I'd say the goals are pretty much the same. Wouldn't you?

I guess I would say if christianity is abused, then it's a different Christ they are worshiping. Because the way is narrow and the gate is straight.

 

[Freodin]

whats false about it

Hovind made a claim about Johanson, and Johanson said that this claim was false. What is so difficult to understand?

 

[Freodin]

I guess I would say if christianity is abused, then it's a different Christ they are worshiping. Because the way is narrow and the gate is straight.

And what does that mean if evolution is abused? Can you accept that it is a "different theory" they are following?

 

[createdtoworship]

And what does that mean if evolution is abused? Can you accept that it is a "different theory" they are following?

You can't say that because the morals of a person are negative that their theory of evolution is in jeopardy. Christianity you can.

 

[Freodin]

You can't say that because the morals of a person are negative that their theory of evolution is in jeopardy. Christianity you can.

I'm sorry, I did not understand that. Can you rephrase?

 

[Jazer]

You can't say that because the morals of a person are negative that their theory of evolution is in jeopardy. Christianity you can.

If they have been given over to a Reprobate Mind then that is going to effect their ability to think clearly and to properly handle evolutionary theory.

 

[createdtoworship]

If they have been given over to a Reprobate Mind then that is going to effect their ability to think clearly and to properly handle evolutionary theory.

evolution doesn't acknowledge reprobate minds because all morals are relative to the situation.

 

[createdtoworship]

I'm sorry, I did not understand that. Can you rephrase?

you can't say that because someone has bad morals that their theory of evolution is wrong.

 

[Nathan Poe]

evolution doesn't acknowledge reprobate minds because all morals are relative to the situation.

Of course, every religion (including Christianity) works the same way -- morals are relative to the situation.

 

[Freodin]

you can't say that because someone has bad morals that their theory of evolution is wrong.

But you can say that if they make statements that the Theory of Evolution does not support, they don't follow the scientific theory.

 

[Freodin]

evolution doesn't acknowledge reprobate minds because all morals are relative to the situation.

In this case, your X does not follow your Y.

But the problem of "relative morals" are not a question that evolution deals with.

 

[createdtoworship]

But you can say that if the make statements that the Theory of Evolution does not support, they don't follow the scientific theory.

what statements does hitler, mussolini or stalin make that are anti-evolution?

 

[createdtoworship]

In this case, your X does not follow your Y.

But the problem of "relative morals" are not a question that evolution deals with.

all the more not to include "reprobate minds"

 

[Freodin]

what statements does hitler, mussolini or stalin make that are anti-evolution?

That might be difficult for you to accept, but the Theory of Evolution does not make any statements about the treatment of races.

The Theory of Evolution is a scientific description of how life propagates, changes and adapts. If someone uses it to make any prescriptions about how to behave, what "races" to kill or favour, or to make statements about "superiority"... he does no longer use the Theory of Evolution.

Darwin's book was one of the books Hitler had burned. Do you think he did that because he loved Darwin?

 

[Freodin]

all the more not to include "reprobate minds"

If you use the theory of gravity to say that you should throw people from skyscrapers, or germ theory to say that you ought to infect every left-handed person with pox... then you would be a "reprobate mind".