GAP Creationism VS YEC & OEC Creationism

TheReasoner · Aug 31, 2011

AV1611VET said:
Wrong.

Do you think one cannot sin against one's brothers then? Ah. I suppose it could be a translation issue. Let's use the word 'trespass'. Better?

A small part.

But a part. Should we be lenient when it comes to people who lie, cheat and commit fraud all the while using God's name for personal profit AV?

Do you believe Mr. Hovind owes you some money back or something?

Nope. But many other people.

You'd blow a gasket with Oral Roberts then, wouldn't you?

One of the founders of prosperity theology? I consider that heresy. Plain and simple.

TheReasoner · Aug 31, 2011

AV1611VET said:
Oh, well -- suit yourself.

You sound like a one-man crusader to me; but frankly, you're just another melodramatic venter, running on a short fuse.

Are you saying that what Hovind did is not serious AV?

Is it OK to lie and cheat in the name of God?

AV1611VET · Aug 31, 2011

faith guardian said:
Do you think one cannot sin against one's brothers then? Ah. I suppose it could be a translation issue. Let's use the word 'trespass'. Better?

But a part. Should we be lenient when it comes to people who lie, cheat and commit fraud all the while using God's name for personal profit AV?

Nope. But many other people.

One of the founders of prosperity theology? I consider that heresy. Plain and simple.

Try and have a good day, will you? don't let the likes of Mr. Hovind spoil it, eh?

TheReasoner · Aug 31, 2011

AV1611VET said:
Try and have a good day, will you? don't let the likes of Mr. Hovind spoil it, eh?

Good advice.

But I still would like an answer: Is it okay to lie and cheat in God's name?

AV1611VET · Aug 31, 2011

faith guardian said:
Are you saying that what Hovind did is not serious AV?

Is it OK to lie and steal in the name of God?

Why don't you let God and our government handle it, k?

We don't need some cheerleader on the sidelines bleeding to death over this man's crimes.

AV1611VET · Aug 31, 2011

faith guardian said:
But I still would like an answer: Is it okay to lie and cheat in God's name?

If you think this deserves an answer from me, you don't know me very well.

TheReasoner · Aug 31, 2011

AV1611VET said:
If you think this deserves an answer from me, you don't know me very well.

No... I know your answer is 'no, that is not okay'. I just wanted to make it (even) clear(er) that I am not okay with it either. When people do that - and get supporters who promote them - it can seriously undermine the faith for many. They become anti-missionaries.
And I do not like that.
That's why I am furious with Hovind. He sinned for decades, and did so in such a way that his sins had very far reaching consequences.
I'm not okay with that. Creationism I disagree with. Lies and deceit I hate. Lies and deceit in the name of God I hate^n where n>>1

(Note: I do not hate Hovind. Just what he's doing.)

Jazer · Aug 31, 2011

faith guardian said:
This is extremely important because Hovind is not the only one who has a fake degree.

It is not a fake. Beginning in March 1988 the school was authorized by the State of Colorado Higher Education Commission to issue "religious degrees".This is not just a paper mill. You do not just buy a peice of paper. Although their standards are not as high as Harvard. I looked into a online course at Harvard and there were five big book you had to get for the course. The books for Patriot is maybe a book that you can read in a day. Big difference. A fake is where they sell you a peice of paper to hang on your wall, without you having to do anything for it.

If you have a problem with places like Patroit, then what about Bob Jones and other Fundamentalist non accedited schools? I have done my fair share of complaining about the lack of education that a lot of the more vocal creationists have. But I would not go so far as to call it a fake.

Patriot Bible University is an unaccredited fundamentalist
Christian correspondence school located in Del Norte, CO
which issues religious degrees only.

http://www.patriotuniversity.org/Creationism_vs_Evolution_in_public_schools/creation_science.html

Jazer · Aug 31, 2011

faith guardian said:
Good advice.

But I still would like an answer: Is it okay to lie and cheat in God's name?

If it is not ok, then why do you do it. Again READ YOUR BIBLE.
You are guilty of the very thing you accuse others of.

Titus 1:15 (NKJV)15 To the pure all things are pure,
but to those who are defiled and unbelieving nothing is pure;
but even their mind and conscience are defiled.

Creationism vs. Evolution in Public Schools, Hovind vs. Forrest

Jazer · Aug 31, 2011

faith guardian said:
One of the founders of prosperity theology? I consider that heresy. Plain and simple.

You have a problem with prosperity now? You do not think that God wants us to prosper?

Frumious Bandersnatch · Aug 31, 2011

Jazer said:
It is not a fake. Beginning in March 1988 the school was authorized by the State of Colorado Higher Education Commission to issue "religious degrees".

I don't see them on the list of accredited schools

This is not just a paper mill. You do not just buy a peice of paper. Although their standards are not as high as Harvard. I looked into a online course at Harvard and there were five big book you had to get for the course. The books for Patriot is maybe a book that you can read in a day. Big difference. A fake is where they sell you a peice of paper to hang on your wall, without you having to do anything for it.

If you have a problem with places like Patroit, then what about Bob Jones and other Fundamentalist non accedited schools? I have done my fair share of complaining about the lack of education that a lot of the more vocal creationists have. But I would not go so far as to call it a fake.

Patriot Bible University is an unaccredited fundamentalist
Christian correspondence school located in Del Norte, CO
which issues religious degrees only.

Creationism vs. Evolution in Public Schools, Hovind vs. Forrest

Patriot Bible University is "accredited by the Accrediting Commission International.

Accrediting Commission International

Click to expand...

(ACI), also known as Accrediting Commission International for Schools, Colleges, and Theological Seminaries, possibly associated with International Accrediting Commission (IAC), also known as International Accrediting Commission for Schools, Colleges and Theological Seminaries is an

unrecognized educational accreditation corporation in Beebe, Arkansas, primarily accrediting religious schools, including seminaries and Bible colleges, but also offering accreditation to non-U.S. schools that offer business education programs.[1] John F. Scheel is president.[2] The St. Petersburg Times quoted Alan Contreras, the leader of Oregon's Office of Degree Authorization (an organization that follows questionable accrediting agencies) as saying, "Anything accredited by ACI in Beebe, Ark., is either fake or substandard, as far as I know."[3]

ACI is not recognized by either Council for Higher Education Accreditation or United States Department of Education, the two institutions responsible for recognizing educational accrediting institutions in the United States.[4][5] According to its website, ACI had not applied for USDE affiliation as of 2007 because most of its members' views regarding separation of church and state.[1]
The Oregon Office of Degree Authorization includes ACI in its list of unrecognized accreditation agencies stating that, "any so-called 'accreditation' by these bodies is meaningless in Oregon and in some other states."[6]
IAC was caught in a sting operation by Missouri assistant attorney general Eric Vieth. They accredited an obviously bogus college and were subsequently charged with fraud.[5] IAC was ordered to cease operation in the state of Missouri but reappeared in Beebe, accrediting the same institutions as previously.[5][7] Degree.net says that "International Accrediting Commission for Schools, Colleges and Theological Seminaries" (IAC) was an organization directed by Dr. George Reuter, who retired immediately before ACI arose in Arkansas.[4]

So Patriot is a bogus university "accredited" by a bogus accrediting agency.

The above picture seems to be the most recent incarnation of "Patriot University"

Here is link to a review of Hovind's Thesis.

It is very clear to anyone who looks into it and especially to those of us who have gone through the years of hard work to get real Ph.D.s that Hovind has a bogus degree from a bogus university.

AV1611VET · Aug 31, 2011

Frumious Bandersnatch said:
I don't see them on the list of accredited schools

Patriot Bible University is "accredited by the Accrediting Commission International.

So Patriot is a bogus university "accredited" by a bogus accrediting agency.

The above picture seems to be the most recent incarnation of "Patriot University"

Here is link to a review of Hovind's Thesis.

It is very clear to anyone who looks into it and especially to those of us who have gone through the years of hard work to get real Ph.D.s that Hovind has a bogus degree from a bogus university.

The BE lab

TheReasoner · Aug 31, 2011

Jazer said:
You have a problem with prosperity now? You do not think that God wants us to prosper?

No. I do not have a problem with prosperity per se. I have a problem with the prosperity gospel.

John Piper says it well:
John Piper and the Prosperity Gospel - YouTube
I consider the prosperity gospel an abomination.

Jazer · Aug 31, 2011

Frumious Bandersnatch said:
I don't see them on the list of accredited schools

They are authorized by the State of Colorado to give Religious degrees. There is a difference between Religious degrees and academic degrees. This is VERY common among this group of Christians to have schools that are not accredited.

Of course this can create problems compared to an accredited school. For example to get a student visa your school has to be accredited. I would imagine to get a student loan you have to attend a accredited school.

Nathan Poe · Aug 31, 2011

Jazer said:
They are authorized by the State of Colorado to give Religious degrees. There is a difference between Religious degrees and academic degrees.

Indeed -- an academic degree takes work.

This is VERY common among this group of Christians to have schools that are not accredited.

For good reason.

Of course this can create problems compared to an accredited school. For example to get a student visa your school has to be accredited. I would imagine to get a student loan you have to attend a accredited school.

I suspect most of these unaccredited religious schools don't do loans anyway -- they seem like more of a "cash at the door" operation.

createdtoworship · Aug 31, 2011

Wiccan_Child said:
His PhD is no more valid than one scribbled in crayon by my little sister

thats our lovely education system for you

AV1611VET · Aug 31, 2011

gradyll said:
thats our lovely education system for you

Here's yesterday's lovely education system:

$50,000 worth of outdated junk.

Acts 19:19 Many of them also which used curious arts brought their books together, and burned them before all men: and they counted the price of them, and found it fifty thousand pieces of silver.

Split Rock · Aug 31, 2011

AV1611VET said:
Ya -- Jack Horkheimer duped me for years, making me think, like him, that Pluto was our 9th planet.

It was our ninth planet, by definition.

Split Rock · Aug 31, 2011

AV1611VET said:
Here's yesterday's lovely education system:

$50,000 worth of outdated junk.

Acts 19:19 Many of them also which used curious arts brought their books together, and burned them before all men: and they counted the price of them, and found it fifty thousand pieces of silver.

Is the fourth edition of the KJV1611 Bible in that pile?

AV1611VET · Aug 31, 2011

Split Rock said:
It was our ninth planet, by definition.

So definitions can be wrong and misleading?

GAP Creationism VS YEC & OEC Creationism

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