GAP Creationism VS YEC & OEC Creationism

[AV1611VET]

So, contrary to the creationist drivel we usually hear, evolutionists are not automatically impressed by degrees.

More like, complimentary to the evolutionist drivel creationists usually hear, evolutionists are not automatically impressed by degrees.

(It won't stop them from asking though. They need something to ridicule.)

 

[AV1611VET]

You really think it takes an "expert" to recognize your drivel as drivel?

You have far too high an opinion of yourself, AV -- you actually think you're fooling people.

Oh, I think Internet scientists were here long before I showed up.

Otherwise, people wouldn't whine when I necrobump one of their threads.

 

[Nathan Poe]

More like, complimentary to the evolutionist drivel creationists usually hear, evolutionists are not automatically impressed by degrees.

(It won't stop them from asking though. They need something to ridicule.)

You can't can't handle any "facts" you don't make up yourself, can you?

 

[Nathan Poe]

Oh, I think Internet scientists were here long before I showed up.

True, and they honed their skills dealing with better pious frauds than you -- people who actually knew their stuff and promoted something besides themselves.

So really, AV -- what makes you think your drivel can compete with the stuff we've heard before?

 

[mzungu]

Again, let me point out -- Jesus didn't have a degree.

Degrees can take a hike.

Let me put it this way:
Which of the two would you allow to operate on you if you had a life threatening accident like a bullet in your belly?

 

[TheReasoner]

We had a foreign exchange student from China. He had the best test results for Physics in the whole school but his English scores were not good. He wanted to get into one of the top 20 universities. Needless to say he was not accepted. So he got into a school that was one of the top 20%. Big difference between top 20 percent and top 20.

For me I could say your worthless because you did not graduate from Harvard or MIT. You can not cut the cheese and get into a real school. Yet there are universities that take 100% of the people that apply. Even though they only manage to graduate 50% of them.

And MR. Hovind should not have passed with that paper. It does not meet the requirements for a bachelor's, much much less a phd.

For me you need to quit sticking your nose up in the air at the people that are beneath your supposed level. Because there are a LOT of people that went to a better school then you. A school you did not even stand a chance of getting into. So you have no right to be critical of people who attend a school that is beneath your so called standards.

Of course if you want to hire him for a job, then you have every right to look at the school he attended. But far to often they just accept that you say you have a college degree and let it go at that.

No. Absolutely not Jazer. Absolutely not. That may hold for transcripts and possibly even bachelors. But advanced degrees MA, MS, phds all are supposed to be open. If you WANT access to one you GET it. It doesn't matter who you are or what background you have. So my reading his thesis is not uncalled for. He claimed to have a degree, and such papers are by virtue of being such degrees supposed to be open to anyone. When I am finished with my degree you can - if you have my name - access that. And there is nothing I can do to stop it.

In Hovind's case he has made many outrageous claims which made me raise an eyebrow. It made me curious about his actual degree. So I skimmed it. And read some parts more thoroughly. This was in my right, and so I will not apologize for it.

And to be frank, you cannot excuse any educational institution for what PU did. A paper with all those problems should not pass. It is painfully obvious they probably didn't even read it, and if they did wanted Hovind to get his degree for one reason or another. Saying that such a paper should pass is ludicrous.

Something is wrong somewhere because this country is just not what it was even 20 years ago. I drive by the university and I see people drinking and having a party and wonder if they ever have time to study at all. I see jobs going overseas at a unprecedented rate. So if the academic standards are so high, then why is this country going to hell in handbasket so quick? Perhaps your straining out the gnats and swallowing the camel.

Your country? Well... Apparently, if Hovind can get a degree, why it's going downhill academically is quite obvious, isn't it? I listed a FEW of the problems with his paper. Just a few. I could write page up and page down if I so chose. So why are you excusing him? PU is a diploma mill. Hovind does not deserve his degree and his thesis should have failed at any level including first year of college.
As for why things go downhill, I suggest reading something by Dr. Galtung for example. He has done extensive work on that particular subject.

Dr Dino was a High School Science teacher. That takes more then a two year degree. Yet how many churches have pastors with two year degrees? I do not hear you complaining about them. Also how many people that have real Phd's know nothing outside of their area of study. I had a brother in law that had a Phd in computers. Yet all he knew was about Cisco. He did not know anything else. I suppose if you need a specialist on Cisco wonderful. But it would be nice if in all those years of education he had learned a little bit of something.

That's what phds do. They are usually not broad, but narrow. Same with MS.

So I assume your pastor has the equivalent of a real Phd? Just where did he graduate from and what are his qualifications?

She was just hired. She has not lied about her degree of course, that's clear. She has six years of university, as is required to be a priest in the Norwegian State Church. At the theological faculty in Oslo.

Everyone in my family is either a teacher, phd or md. So I do not have that much of a regard for them. Actually both of my brothers are directors. If they were going to hire someone I am sure they would look at where they got their degree from. But where Dr Dino was preaching and teaching they were doing good to get someone in there that even had a college degree. Usually people at those churches have nothing or a two year associate degree.

Things are different here. But as I said, MR. Hovind's degree is not real. It cannot possibly be considered real. And: Phds and masters' degrees are open for anyone to read. Hovind's was not. Until it leaked. In addition to that the formatting errors, mistypings and plagiarizing (Which is extremely serious by the way. It's a felony) would alone fail any university student at any level.
This isn't snobbery, Jazer. this is legitimate and highly justified criticism of a fraud. He may be a high-school teacher but that does not mean he's qualified or even intelligent enough to get a phd. I cannot check his transcripts and would not if I could. Those are not available to the public and should not be either. But a thesis should, must and is. And his "thesis" is laughable. I pointed out some problems with it earlier

I ask you again, why do you defend the man? He's a known and convicted fraud, he lied to court, his degree cannot possibly be considered real... He is not what I would call a real man. At all. So why do you defend him? Because this fraud says things you want to hear? Well... That's how frauds operate, isn't it?

 

[createdtoworship]

He's not trying to pass himself off as a real doctor, no. Hovind, on the other hand, pretends that he's an actual doctor with actual qualifications - which he doesn't.

according to this link he received a PHD, now if he would just pay His taxes ....

Dr. Kent Hovind | Creation Science Evangelism - Creation, Apologetics, Evangelism

 

[Jazer]

Let me put it this way:
Which of the two would you allow to operate on you if you had a life threatening accident like a bullet in your belly?

Which of the two would you allow to operate on you?

 

[mzungu]

Fundamentalist Christians will stoop to nothing in order to preserve their warped beliefs. They even defend known criminals and fraudsters simply because they fear that by condemning them they are in fact condemning their beliefs. This is childish and irresponsible behaviour.

In fact it is tantamount to bearing false witness; Not that it makes any difference since fundamentalists many a times go against the very scriptures they so cherish.

Jesus was So Right when he cried: " HYPOCRITES AND PHARISEES! "

Hovind is a criminal and is in jail. Pray for his soul if any of you so wish. Accord him his human rights but don't pretend that he is an angel!

 

[mzungu]

Which of the two would you allow to operate on you?

Grow up!

 

[Jazer]

And MR. Hovind should not have passed with that paper. It does not meet the requirements for a bachelor's, much much less a phd.

Ok, so in your opinion he does not have a Phd. What is your point, what difference does it make? It is not like he is out looking for a real job. He is an evangelist they are doing good if they have a high school degree a lot of the time.

You are the one in error if you have a female priest in your church. You are without a doubt having to swallow a camel. The Bible clearly teaches that a man is to pastor a church, not a women.

1 Tim 2 12But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. 13For Adam was first formed, then Eve. 14And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.

 

[Jazer]

Fundamentalist Christians will stoop to nothing in order to preserve their warped beliefs. They even defend known criminals and fraudsters simply because they fear that by condemning them they are in fact condemning their beliefs. This is childish and irresponsible behaviour.

Fundamental Atheists will stoop to nothing in order to preserve their warped beliefs. They even defend known criminals, porno mongers & homosexuals simply because they fear that by condemning them they are in fact condemning their beliefs. This is childish and irresponsible behaviour.

 

[Jazer]

Grow up!

Never.

NIV Luke 18 17 I tell you the truth, anyone who will not receive the kingdom of God like a little child will never enter it."

 

[mzungu]

Ok, so in your opinion he does not have a Phd. What is your point, what difference does it make? It is not like he is out looking for a real job. He is an evangelist they are doing good if they have a high school degree a lot of the time.

You are the one in error if you have a female priest in your church. You are without a doubt having to swallow a camel. The Bible clearly teaches that a man is to pastor a church, not a women.

1 Tim 2 12But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. 13For Adam was first formed, then Eve. 14And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.

So you also agree to kill a disobedient child?

 

[Incariol]

Jazer, this is really amusing, but please stop now. This is the science forum and we aren't really interested in your religious and political views. At all.

 

[TheReasoner]

Ok, so in your opinion he does not have a Phd. What is your point, what difference does it make? It is not like he is out looking for a real job. He is an evangelist they are doing good if they have a high school degree a lot of the time.

My problem is that he's a fraud, Jazer. The bible is quite clear on lying and baring false witness. It's more than frowned upon. I could make a list of his sins on this area if you want, with bible verses. But I expect a prison sentence is a decent point in this case? Besides, I would argue that Mr. Hovind is only an evangelist in his own eyes. He preaches creationism, not christianity. And what he preaches he does not understand. He tries to tie communism to evolution for crying out loud. A crazy stretch by any measure. And it's not the only stretch either. He tried to justify fraud and theft with the bible. Very very poorly done, at that. And no matter what a person claims to be, we are to judge a tree by it's fruits you know. Hence a man by his actions. Does Hovind's actions (Lying, cheating, stealing) match those of a good Christian man? No.

Would I have a problem with someone preaching without a degree and being honest about it? No. Of course not. Would I have a problem with someone preaching creationism under the label of christianity? Yes. But much less than if said person did as Hovind did: Get a fake degree and commit severe tax fraud, lie to the court and more along those lines my distaste for said person shoots through the roof. Add to it claims of being an evangelist or pastor and you can add fury to extreme distaste. I have major problems with whoever does that. No matter what they claim to be or support. Fake is fake, lies are lies, fraud is fraud. And one should not respect or accept it. Especially not in a man who claims to be an evangelist, preacher or other person with authority.

If he was a man of God he would be a man of integrity, honesty and truthfulness. Instead he: Lied about his degree, draws extreme and unsubstantiated conclusions based solely on his opinions - not on any research worth squat, committed tax fraud, lied to the court of law and more. Does that sound like a man of God to you, Jazer? It sure does not to me.

You are the one in error if you have a female priest in your church. You are without a doubt having to swallow a camel. The Bible clearly teaches that a man is to pastor a church, not a women.

Waitasecond... I am the one in error on my analysis of Mister Hovind's fraudulent nature as evidenced both by his incarceration and his fake degree because my church has a female priest?
Wow. That's a wild stretch, Jazer. Besides: Funny how the bible does endorse female preachers and prophets. And sure, you can quote Timothy, but you're not the only one who can quote.


See: Acts 21:9, Acts 18:18, Rom. 16:1-4, Rom. 16:7, 1 Cor. 16:19 and Phil. 4:2–3

Selective reading there on your part Jazer. In addition I should hope I do not have to mention the female prophets in the old testament?
I should add, this (female priests) is a matter of theology, not science though. So it's not relevant on this board.

 

[Wiccan_Child]

according to this link he received a PHD, now if he would just pay His taxes ....

Dr. Kent Hovind | Creation Science Evangelism - Creation, Apologetics, Evangelism

His PhD is no more valid than one scribbled in crayon by my little sister

 

[Wiccan_Child]

Fundamental Atheists will stoop to nothing in order to preserve their warped beliefs. They even defend known criminals, porno mongers & homosexuals simply because they fear that by condemning them they are in fact condemning their beliefs. This is childish and irresponsible behaviour.

Do you have any evidence that 'fundamentalist atheists' do this? What on Earth is a 'fundamentalist atheist'? I'm an atheist (though I have no idea whether I qualify as a fundamentalist or not; do I have to incite suicide bombings first?), and I will defend 'porno mongers' and homosexuals, inasmuch as there is nothing inherently immoral about either. As for criminals, depending on what they are accused of, I will also defend them: someone imprisoned for smoking a bit of weed is not, in my opinion, a real criminal worthy of imprisonment.

And this has nothing to do with any "childish and irresponsible behaviour", nor any paranoia of hypocrisy - why, exactly, can't I condemn homosexuals without contradicting my beliefs? As an atheist, what beliefs do you think I hold?

 

[AV1611VET]

Hovind is a criminal and is in jail.

You know what else Hovind is?

Spoiler: What else Hovind is

FORGIVEN

 

[AV1611VET]

Jazer, this is really amusing, but please stop now. This is the science forum and we aren't really interested in your religious and political views. At all.

Looks like you're outvoted here, friend.