Gap creationism v. progressive creationism..

jerry kelso

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It is widely believed that the narratives transition between the literal king of Babylon and the King and Prince of Tyrus as a type of Lucifer. The reference in Isaiah 14 seems to be inset, a parenthetical statement.

It is the law of double reference.
The earthly man addresses was the king of Tyre.
This was the same when Jesus said to Peter, Get thee behind me Satan for thou art art an offense to me for thou savor not the things that be of God, but those that be of men Matthew 16:23. He didn’t mean Peter was the devil but Satan was using him to keep Christ from going to the cross.
It must be understand what is true about an earthy man and the the one invisible that cannot be understood by an earthly man. Lucifer’s rebellion cannot be confused with an allegorical interpretation’s of being spoken to the earthly king that had a few of the same aspirations and pride against God.
Both Isaiah 14 and Ezekiel 28 are such accounts and cannot be said about the earthly king of tyre.
Just the fact that he was the Anointed Cherub that covereth on the holy mountain of God on earth
and that Lucifer was perfect in his ways from the day that thou wast created till iniquity was found in him.
The earthly king was born in sin.
These are true and real examples of comparisons not a parenthetical as a side note to ignore like it is an afterthought or an allegorical interpretation. Jerry Kelso
 
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Jamsie

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Shame you haven't applied some thinking to what the bible says.
'Let the land produce' means that plants grew.
'and it was so' God spoke and it happened.
You are trying to read long ages into what the bible says is a period of 24 hours.

And you insist that it isn't a process but it was instantaneous... somehow you are unable to see that the strict YEC is not set in stone. Today we know that all things are a process, do we not? It is still curious why Genesis doesn't simply state "And God said, Let there be living creatures...plants, etc." I would think that the salient point is that the command is mediate not necessarily immediate which at the very least should offer some humility from a rigid position.

Verse 26 is so clearly mediate creation as man was made from “dust”, just as were the animals and plants. At one level mediate creation is irrefutable, at another level it an openly debatable point.

So the verses in question do not actually state that God made anything directly but through mediate creation. The question then becomes, how? Creation was obviously a supernatural event however were the processes that we see today invoked by God at the outset? Is it not possible that God set in motion at the beginning all of the "laws" for the incipient powers, elements, material, etc. as to the natural processes of phenomena to be produced?
 
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OldWiseGuy

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It is the law of double reference.
The earthly man addresses was the king of Tyre.
This was the same when Jesus said to Peter, Get thee behind me Satan for thou art art an offense to me for thou savor not the things that be of God, but those that be of men Matthew 16:23. He didn’t mean Peter was the devil but Satan was using him to keep Christ from going to the cross.
It must be understand what is true about an earthy man and the the one invisible that cannot be understood by an earthly man. Lucifer’s rebellion cannot be confused with an allegorical interpretation’s of being spoken to the earthly king that had a few of the same aspirations and pride against God.
Both Isaiah 14 and Ezekiel 28 are such accounts and cannot be said about the earthly king of tyre.
Just the fact that he was the Anointed Cherub that covereth on the holy mountain of God on earth
and that Lucifer was perfect in his ways from the day that thou wast created till iniquity was found in him.
The earthly king was born in sin.
These are true and real examples of comparisons not a parenthetical as a side note to ignore like it is an afterthought or an allegorical interpretation. Jerry Kelso

Yeah, 'parenthetical' wasn't a good choice. :sorry:
 
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jerry kelso

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Debunking the "Gap Theory"


thebibleistruth,

1. I don’t agree with Mike Riddle and this is why.
The conjunction and is used to connect about 200 separate acts of God in Genesis 1 and 2. They are all equally independent and important.

2. The word “was” in Verse 2 is from the Hebrew hayah which means to become not to be.
It is translated became 67 times (Genesis 2:7; 19:26; 20:12; 24:67; Exodus 4:3-4; Numbers 12:10 etc.)
It is also translated in scripture for becamest, Came and came to pass, become and Dake has more and the scriptures with them.
So it it false to say that the gap belief misused language for support.

3. He said it undermines the gospel putting death before sin.
This is ridiculous because God created everything perfect in Genesis 1 and the Luciferian kingdom on earth.
Ezekiel 28:15 Satan sinned and that is why death came into the world. This started the Great Confrontation between the devil and God.
The devil has an eternal body and could not die.
God will not share his glory with anyone.
There is no undermining the gospel for the cross is what would destroy the devils aspiration to replace God. Genesis 3:15 was the first Messianic prophecy about the victory of the cross.

4. It doesn’t make God’s very good death and decay. If that was true then the same could be said when Adam and Eve sinned.

5. All the earth was not populated, not even as much after the flood and after Peleg.
The flood was upon the earth; rain upon the earth 40 days and nights ; increased greatly on the earth etc. The waters prevailed exceedingly upon the earth; and all the high hills, that were under the whole Heaven was covered.
Under the whole Heaven was covered and do I have no problem believing it was the whole earth but that argument means nothing biblically as much as an argument about geology.

6. Hebrews 11:3: Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.
Genesis 1:10 and God called the dry land earth.
Of earth means dry land then the original earth in Genesis 1:1 would have been dry land.
The waters under the Heaven was already present and earth became visible when the waters were gathered and the dry land appeared.
This doesn’t sound like Hebrews 11:4 making something out of nothing.
There is no contradiction about reconstruction or restoration.

7. There is nothing that says how long of time between verse 1 and verse 2. So biblically the word is not trying to side with old or young earth views. It doesn’t compromise millions of years necessarily especially not in the context of evolution.

8. He said it contradicts Jesus words in Mark 10:6 and then misquoted it by saying it proved dinosaurs were in there when it said nothing of the sort in the verse or the context. But from the beginning of the creation God made them male and female. The context is about divorce between man and woman.

9. The video was not convincing at all. Dake shows scriptural examples and that man was trying to use more of what he read to be the supreme definition of the Jewish word to be an open and shut case.
Ezekiel 28-1:19 shows the Luciferian kingdom on earth before he sinned and before Adam and Eve was created. Jerry Kelso.
 
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Hiscosmicgoldfish3

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5. All the earth was not populated, not even as much after the flood and after Peleg.
The flood was upon the earth; rain upon the earth 40 days and nights ; increased greatly on the earth etc. The waters prevailed exceedingly upon the earth; and all the high hills, that were under the whole Heaven was covered.
Under the whole Heaven was covered and do I have no problem believing it was the whole earth but that argument means nothing biblical as much as an argument about geology.


The flood of the gap is different to the flood of Noah.
 
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jerry kelso

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5. All the earth was not populated, not even as much after the flood and after Peleg.
The flood was upon the earth; rain upon the earth 40 days and nights ; increased greatly on the earth etc. The waters prevailed exceedingly upon the earth; and all the high hills, that were under the whole Heaven was covered.
Under the whole Heaven was covered and do I have no problem believing it was the whole earth but that argument means nothing biblical as much as an argument about geology.


The flood of the gap is different to the flood of Noah.

his cosmocgoldfish3,

1. I am glad you agree. Jerry kelso
 
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Open Heart

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This whole OP is chasing a rabbit down a rabbit hole. God created at the moment of the Big Bang some 13 billion years ago. God created life from non-life (abiogenesis) some 3.8 billion years ago, which then, at his direction, evolved into what we have today, and it continues to evolve. You might say that Evolution is God's modus operendi of creation.
 
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Open Heart

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This Holy Bible, God's Inspired, Infallible and Inerrant Word, says NO! Who really gives a hoot about science or the like, they are ALWAYS WRONG!
What a rational intelligent thing to say. NOT.

When I was a teenager, my youth group read a book called, "How to be a Christian without being Religious." One of the chapters was, "Christianity is not anti-intellectual." As an example of a religious, anti-intellectual Christian, there was a picture of a Christian kicking away stacks of books, shouting, "Don't confuse me with the facts! My mind is made up!"
 
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Hiscosmicgoldfish3

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This whole OP is chasing a rabbit down a rabbit hole. God created at the moment of the Big Bang some 13 billion years ago. God created life from non-life (abiogenesis) some 3.8 billion years ago, which then, at his direction, evolved into what we have today, and it continues to evolve. You might say that Evolution is God's modus operendi of creation.
the big bang and evolution is not biblical.
 
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Open Heart

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the big bang and evolution is not biblical.
It is not opposed to the Bible either. It is simply good science. If I want to know how something happened, I look to science. If I want to know WHY it happened, I look to the Bible.
 
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Hiscosmicgoldfish3

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It is not opposed to the Bible either. It is simply good science. If I want to know how something happened, I look to science. If I want to know WHY it happened, I look to the Bible.
If I want to know how something happened, I look to the bible. If I want to know WHY it happened, I look to the Bible.
 
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Open Heart

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If I want to know how something happened, I look to the bible. If I want to know WHY it happened, I look to the Bible.
Not everything in the Bible is history. Do the psalms teach you history? No, because they are songs, not history texts. Genesis 1-3 is also not a history text.
 
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jerry kelso

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This whole OP is chasing a rabbit down a rabbit hole. God created at the moment of the Big Bang some 13 billion years ago. God created life from non-life (abiogenesis) some 3.8 billion years ago, which then, at his direction, evolved into what we have today, and it continues to evolve. You might say that Evolution is God's modus operendi of creation.

openheart,

1. Do you really have a scripture for 3.8 billion years ago?

2. Where do you get scriptural backup for evolution? That is if you are talking about Darwin’s model of evolution Jerry kelso
 
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OldWiseGuy

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The Hebrew has no vowels and no spaces between words, thus (in English) Genesis 1:1:2 would appear,

nthbgnnngGdcrtdthhvnndthrthndthrthwswthtfrmndvnddrknsswspnthfcfthdpndth SprtfGdmvdpnthfcfthwtrs

Add vowels and punctuation,

InthebeginningGodcreatedtheheavenandtheearthAndtheearthwaswithoutform,andvoid;anddarknesswasuponthefaceofthedeep.AndtheSpiritofGodmoveduponthefaceofthewaters.

Add spacing between words,

In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

Add a title and divide into chapter and verse for study purposes,


Genesis, chapter 1

verse 1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

verse 2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

I purpose to take it one step further, to present it as one would a novel,


In the Beginning God Created the Heaven and the Earth.

But the earth became an empty wasteland,
and darkness was on the surface of the seas.

And then the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.


This would plainly reveal the 'gap'.








 
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Tolworth John

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And you insist that it isn't a process but it was instantaneous... somehow you are unable to see that the strict YEC is not set in stone. Today we know that all things are a process, do we not? It is still curious why Genesis doesn't simply state "And God said, Let there be living creatures...plants, etc." I would think that the salient point is that the command is mediate not necessarily immediate which at the very least should offer some humility from a rigid position.

Verse 26 is so clearly mediate creation as man was made from “dust”, just as were the animals and plants. At one level mediate creation is irrefutable, at another level it an openly debatable point.

So the verses in question do not actually state that God made anything directly but through mediate creation. The question then becomes, how? Creation was obviously a supernatural event however were the processes that we see today invoked by God at the outset? Is it not possible that God set in motion at the beginning all of the "laws" for the incipient powers, elements, material, etc. as to the natural processes of phenomena to be produced?

There are two ways to understand any written passage whether it is the national paper or the bible.
One either reads what it says and understands what it says by what is written or one comes with a previous bias and reads everything through that bias.

Unfortunetly those who read into the bible long periods of time are doing just that reading with a bias to see something that is not there.
 
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Jamsie

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There are two ways to understand any written passage whether it is the national paper or the bible.
One either reads what it says and understands what it says by what is written or one comes with a previous bias and reads everything through that bias.

Unfortunetly those who read into the bible long periods of time are doing just that reading with a bias to see something that is not there.

You do realize that your contention, though I agree with the premise, goes both ways. It seems that Romans 1:20 is a questionable verse. We are either capable of understanding, with limits, the world around us or we are not ... just as the "appearance of age" belief would nullify the verse.
 
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Open Heart

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openheart,

1. Do you really have a scripture for 3.8 billion years ago?

2. Where do you get scriptural backup for evolution? That is if you are talking about Darwin’s model of evolution Jerry kelso
Do you have scientific evidence for 6000 years? No. The evidence contradicts this.
Do you have scientific evidence that life has remained static since it began? No. The evidence proves this false.
Do you have scientific evidence that mankind came into existence six days after the earth was formed? No. The evidence shows this to be ridiculous.
 
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jerry kelso

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Do you have scientific evidence for 6000 years? No. The evidence contradicts this.
Do you have scientific evidence that life has remained static since it began? No. The evidence proves this false.
Do you have scientific evidence that mankind came into existence six days after the earth was formed? No. The evidence shows this to be ridiculous.

openheart,

1. First of all, I believe in the gap between Genesis 1-2.
The reason being is to account for the Luciferian kingdom and his fall and rebellion.

2. The argument is between the Old Earth and the Young Earth.
Old earth proponents are blamed for believing in evolution of Darwin’s theory because of that length of time. This is a wrong accusation.
I was merely stating in essence there is no scripture that says the world is that old or how long it was between Verse 1 and 2.

3. I didn’t mention anything about life remaining static at all.

4. I didn’t say anything about 6 days after creation. I believe in the gap.
I just question any scriptural basis for 380 billion years. I said nothing about scientifically speaking. Jerry kelso
 
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