Galatians 4 two opposing covenants.

[GDL]

He makes my point. John The Baptist told these "Rulers of the Jews" to Repent and Bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance:

But is this the focus of John's writing? In John's Gospel and letters, he never uses the word "repent" (some are well-informed of this, but IMO apply this fact to reach a wrong conclusion). IMO John does speak of the concept of repentance, but there is a reason he doesn't speak of it directly.

Since you don't concern yourself with such things as word usage and context, you're free to eisegete what the author is actually speaking of.

These were men who professed to know God, but by their works denied Him. I'm surprised not more preachers considered His Word's. But these men were trained by the wisest religious philosopher of that time. They were convinced they were "heirs to the promise". They had walked in the same religious traditions of their fathers for centuries. To have a nobody, a carpenter's son they believed was from Galilee, tell them they were promoting false doctrines and preaching the commandments of men, that was hard to take given the profitable business they had created selling forgiveness. As is my custom, let's look at the actual scriptures.

John 3:1 There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews:

2 The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him. 3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

9 Nicodemus answered and said unto him, How can these things be? 10 Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things?

The basic context of John1-2 is concerned with who Jesus is - is He the Messiah who brings the Kingdom?

As soon as you see the word "Pharisee" you automatically insert "criminal." Nicodemus a Pharisee is obviously recognizing something about Jesus (note his comment re: miracles) and later adds some legitimate reasoning from Law and assisted with Jesus' burial. The issue for Nicodemus, as for everyone at the time, was whether or not Jesus is Messiah.

Jesus schools Nicodemus a teacher of Israel on the new birth and attached new covenant, which if Nicodemus fully understood, then he might recognize who this Man doing signs in his midst was (again, as your quote of John3:2 shows Nicodemus was aware of).

This is not just about repentance from your favored theory of Pharisaical criminality, and repentance is a word that is applied with some specificity in parts of Scripture, so, once again, context should be considered.

How can a Pharisee, "living by the Law of Moses", not know about repentance? The Law and Prophets certainly teaches it. I know you won't answer my questions, but what did your study teach you the significance was, of placing the blood of the unblemished Passover Lamb on the door posts and Lintel?

Ez. 18: 30 Therefore I will judge you, O house of Israel, every one according to his ways, saith the Lord GOD. Repent, and turn yourselves from all your transgressions; so iniquity shall not be your ruin. 31 Cast away from you all your transgressions, whereby ye have transgressed; and make you a new heart and a new spirit: for why will ye die, O house of Israel?

What makes you think they did not know about repentance? Did they need to repent? Yes, just as was typical for Israel throughout its history. And the message of repentance was not just to the Pharisees, but to all. Your quote of Ezekial was also a message to the Children of Israel - House of Israel. Once again, what's your point? You have a focus on the criminal Pharisees but post a Scripture that pertains to all of Israel?

Why ask me a question you "know" I won't answer and then claim I'm the one who has an agenda to discredit you? Silly game.

If you'd really like an answer, be more specific and clear up your use of Scripture and your focus - was all of Israel in need of repentance - or just the Pharisees or ???

Again, I'm stopping here. Once again, you are already simply not presenting a focus on context. You don't seem to understand that individual authors can be and are many times focusing on different issues. You use Scripture that speaks of an entire population to state that a specific part of a population is criminal. You ask questions with agendas and allege I have an agenda against you.

Want to discuss any commandments of God's Eternal Law? Keep it short.

 

[GDL]

The point is that the Pharisees were "NOT" living by the Law of Moses. At least according to the Jesus of the Bible, and also Paul's words.



Honesty from the heart is important. Several times in this thread you have made statements about my posts that you know are falsehoods, like accusing me of avoiding any Scripture, including John 1:1. It's OK to disagree. Not OK to make up fairy tales as to why. You are free to employ this religious practice, but it reveals your motive.


I have found after this encounter, that what you "say" you are interested in, doesn't align with what you actually "do". You "say" you are interested in "discussion" but you refuse to answer any questions. You feign that you are interested in scripture, but you ignore and refuse to even acknowledge them, unless they can be used to promote your philosophy. I was hoping for something different given what you "said" in the beginning.



Again, as I already asked once, and you refused to answer, what religious theory is that? That the children of the devil in Jesus Time were "NOT" living by God's Laws HE gave them through Moses? But Zacharias was?

Was Zacharias justified as a result of being a Law Doer?

Is Jesus God?

 

[Studyman]

Was Zacharias justified as a result of being a Law Doer?

Let's examine Scriptures in search of the true answer to this question.


John 14: 15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

Luke 1:5 There was in the days of Herod, the king of Judaea, a certain priest named Zacharias, of the course of Abia: and his wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elisabeth. 6 And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.

John 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

Luke 1: 67 And his father Zacharias was filled with the Holy Ghost, and prophesied, saying, 68 Blessed be the Lord God of Israel; for he hath visited and redeemed his people,

John 14:17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

Luke 1:69 And hath raised up an horn of salvation for us in the house of his servant David; 70 As he spake by the mouth of his holy prophets, which have been since the world began:

Did Zacharias Love the Holy One of Israel, and walk in His Commandments? Yes, he had "Faith" in God.

Was HE given the Spirit of truth as promised? A Truth that the ordained pastors of the world in his time could not see? Yes, he had "Faith" in God.

Did Zacharias "Yield Himself" a servant to obey God, like Paul and the true body of Christ did? Yes, he had "Faith" in God.

Was Zacharias a "Doer" of God's Laws, and not a Hearer only? Yes, he had "Faith" in God.

But what about the Pharisees?

Did they Love the Holy One of Israel, and walk in His Commandments? No, they were children in whom is no faith.

Did God give them His Holy spirit? No, they were children in whom is no faith.

Did the Pharisees "Yield themselves" servants to obey God? No, they were children in whom is no faith.

Were the Pharisees "doers" of God's Laws, or Hearers only? No, they were children in whom is no faith.

So

Was Zacharias justified as a result of being a Law Doer?

NO! He was Justified by Faith.

Is Jesus God?

What God are you speaking to? The popular god created by the religions of this world, in the image of a long haired handsome man with a perfect profile?

No. This Jesus isn't God.

If you are speaking to my Lord and Savior that the One True God sent to "show me in the way that I should go" and take my sins away, then Yes, as I have shown several times, this Jesus is my Lord who created all things at the behest of His God and my God, His Father and my Father.

John 17: 3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

 

[GDL]

NO! He was Justified by Faith.

Thanks for the simple answer.

Was he justified before or after the arrival or death or resurrection of Messiah?

What God are you speaking to? The popular god created by the religions of this world, in the image of a long haired handsome man with a perfect profile?

No. This Jesus isn't God.

This is unnecessary. Although I did like the movie King of Kings as a kid. It may have even been part of what planted a seed about Christ.

If you are speaking to my Lord and Savior that the One True God sent to "show me in the way that I should go" and take my sins away, then Yes, as I have shown several times, this Jesus is my Lord who created all things at the behest of His God and my God, His Father and my Father.

John 17: 3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

Are you opposed to the concept of the Trinity - the Godhead - Father, Son, Holy Spirit? It's a simple question with no need to resort to the opinions re: world religions.

Is Jesus God as in God the Son? You obviously don't seem to like John1:1. John 8:58?

 

[Studyman]

Thanks for the simple answer.

Was he justified before or after the arrival or death or resurrection of Messiah?

He was justified from the foundation of the world as are all men who "Yield themselves" servants to obey God. As the Christ of the Bible told us at the behest of His Father.

"And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

This is unnecessary. Although I did like the movie King of Kings as a kid. It may have even been part of what planted a seed about Christ.

No doubt many have been influenced by the god of this world's religions in the same way they were influenced by the same god of the Pharisees. Who "many" falsely preach were "Living by the Law of Moses".

Are you opposed to the concept of the Trinity - the Godhead - Father, Son, Holy Spirit? It's a simple question with no need to resort to the opinions re: world religions.

I am glad to have a discussion about Valentinus and the early RCC and their religious philosophies after you answer my questions that you ignored throughout this discussion.

Is Jesus God as in God the Son? You obviously don't seem to like John1:1. John 8:58?

Again, your fleshy judgments miss the mark.

In your religion, did the Holy One of Israel who spoke these words below, become a human in the person of Jesus?

1 And God spake all these words, saying, 2 I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. 3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.

4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: 5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;

Regarding Zacharias, is this not the same God who he spoke of "Blessed be the Lord God of Israel; for he hath visited and redeemed his people,"?

In your religion, is this your redeemer?

Is. 48: 15 I, even I, have spoken; yea, I have called him: I have brought him, and he shall make his way prosperous. 16 Come ye near unto me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there am I: and now the Lord GOD, and his Spirit, hath sent me. 17 Thus saith the LORD, thy Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel; I am the LORD thy God which teacheth thee to profit, which leadeth thee by the way that thou shouldest go. 18 O that thou hadst hearkened to my commandments! then had thy peace been as a river, and thy righteousness as the waves of the sea:

Is belief in this God not the reason Zacharias was justified, but the Pharisees were not?

 

[GDL]

He was justified from the foundation of the world as are all men who "Yield themselves" servants to obey God. As the Christ of the Bible told us at the behest of His Father.

"And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

Misquote & misuse of Eph1:4. Seems customary.

No doubt many have been influenced by the god of this world's religions in the same way they were influenced by the same god of the Pharisees. Who "many" falsely preach were "Living by the Law of Moses".

Christ spoke of allowing some to use His name even if they weren't following Him as they should (Mark9; Luke9). He'll sort it out in the end.

Who would those preachers be? Me?

I am glad to have a discussion about Valentinus and the early RCC and their religious philosophies after you answer my questions that you ignored throughout this discussion.

Another dodge but provides more clarity as to why you don't like certain verses of Scripture. You've swung the pendulum to the point where everything said by whoever you self-categorize as religious has to be wrong in everything. Why don't you just answer, No, when you're asked a simple question such as, is Jesus God? Instead, you post what you think makes your case and ignore what argues against you.

Again, your fleshy judgments miss the mark.

In your religion, did the Holy One of Israel who spoke these words below, become a human in the person of Jesus?

1 And God spake all these words, saying, 2 I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. 3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.

Do you know for certain YHWH never refers to God the Son? I'm sure you think you do.

4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: 5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;

Your assertion that all but you are bowing down to some movie representation or art piece depicting God is just nonsense.

Regarding Zacharias, is this not the same God who he spoke of "Blessed be the Lord God of Israel; for he hath visited and redeemed his people,"?

In your religion, is this your redeemer?

Is. 48: 15 I, even I, have spoken; yea, I have called him: I have brought him, and he shall make his way prosperous. 16 Come ye near unto me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there am I: and now the Lord GOD, and his Spirit, hath sent me. 17 Thus saith the LORD, thy Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel; I am the LORD thy God which teacheth thee to profit, which leadeth thee by the way that thou shouldest go. 18 O that thou hadst hearkened to my commandments! then had thy peace been as a river, and thy righteousness as the waves of the sea:

Is belief in this God not the reason Zacharias was justified, but the Pharisees were not?

I'm satisfied the only way to be foundationally redeemed and justified is by God's grace through faith that Jesus is the Christ. I don't think you understand what that means or when it takes place. I'm also satisfied that whether I'm Judean or Gentile and whether or not I ever heard of God's Law, we are all justified in the same way.

Now that you've dodged and two-stepped your way around Jesus being God another time and shown more of your lack of understanding of man's foundational justification, here's my response to what I left off a bit earlier:

Let's examine Scriptures in search of the true answer to this question.


John 14: 15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

Luke 1:5 There was in the days of Herod, the king of Judaea, a certain priest named Zacharias, of the course of Abia: and his wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elisabeth. 6 And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.

John 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

Luke 1: 67 And his father Zacharias was filled with the Holy Ghost, and prophesied, saying, 68 Blessed be the Lord God of Israel; for he hath visited and redeemed his people,

John 14:17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

Luke 1:69 And hath raised up an horn of salvation for us in the house of his servant David; 70 As he spake by the mouth of his holy prophets, which have been since the world began:

Did Zacharias Love the Holy One of Israel, and walk in His Commandments? Yes, he had "Faith" in God.

Was HE given the Spirit of truth as promised? A Truth that the ordained pastors of the world in his time could not see? Yes, he had "Faith" in God.

Did Zacharias "Yield Himself" a servant to obey God, like Paul and the true body of Christ did? Yes, he had "Faith" in God.

Was Zacharias a "Doer" of God's Laws, and not a Hearer only? Yes, he had "Faith" in God.

Let’s put Scriptures in their correct order and let them teach us properly:

Luke 1:5 There was in the days of Herod, the king of Judaea, a certain priest named Zacharias, of the course of Abia: and his wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elisabeth. 6 And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.

Luke 1: 67 And his father Zacharias was filled with the Holy Ghost, and prophesied, saying, 68 Blessed be the Lord God of Israel; for he hath visited and redeemed his people,

Luke 1:69 And hath raised up an horn of salvation for us in the house of his servant David; 70 As he spake by the mouth of his holy prophets, which have been since the world began:

John 14: 15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

John 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

John 14:17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

Did Zacharias Love the Holy One of Israel, and walk in His Commandments? Yes, he had "Faith" in God.

• Did walking in faith keeping God’s Commandments justify him?
• Was he justified by Faith before Christ came?

Was HE given the Spirit of truth as promised? A Truth that the ordained pastors of the world in his time could not see? Yes, he had "Faith" in God.

• Is Luke 1:67 the giving of the Spirit promised by Jesus in John 14?
• Is Luke 1:67 the filling of the Spirit given to Prophets and others before Christ came?
• Maybe it's you who doesn't see.

Did Zacharias "Yield Himself" a servant to obey God, like Paul and the true body of Christ did? Yes, he had "Faith" in God.

• Is his yielding per Luke1:5 before or after the life, death, resurrection of Messiah that Paul mainly deals with?
• Paul's view of Law was as a Pharisee until after Christ's resurrection and personal approach to Paul. Was Paul obeying as a Pharisee?

Was Zacharias a "Doer" of God's Laws, and not a Hearer only? Yes, he had "Faith" in God.

• In Rom2 is Paul speaking of a justification for Law Doers that Zacharias or any person has yet experienced?

Once again, context is vital. So is discerning the actual flow of Scripture in context.

 

[Studyman]

Misquote & misuse of Eph1:4. Seems customary.

Eph. 1: 1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus: 2 Grace be to you, and peace, from God our Father, "and" from the Lord Jesus Christ. 3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ: 4 According as he (God and father of my Lord Jesus Christ) hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

Is. 46: 8 Remember this, and shew yourselves men: bring it again to mind, O ye transgressors. 9 Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me, 10 "Declaring the end from the beginning", and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:

I don't know what Gamaliel or Valentines or whoever your adopted philosophers taught you. But according to the Scriptures, the Christ of the Bible who teaches me and Zacharias and Peter in the way that we should go, knows the choices we will make, because HE has already seen them. Maybe your god didn't know from the foundation of the world, that Zacharias wouldn't bow down to the establishment religion of his time but would be faithful to God as a servant of His Righteousness. But the Holy One of Israel did. At least the
Christ of the Bible did.

Just because I wasn't indoctrinated by your chosen religious school, doesn't automatically make my understanding of God's Word a "Misquote & misuse" of Scriptures.

 

[GDL]

Eph. 1: 1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus: 2 Grace be to you, and peace, from God our Father, "and" from the Lord Jesus Christ. 3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ: 4 According as he (God and father of my Lord Jesus Christ) hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

Is. 46: 8 Remember this, and shew yourselves men: bring it again to mind, O ye transgressors. 9 Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me, 10 "Declaring the end from the beginning", and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:

I don't know what Gamaliel or Valentines or whoever your adopted philosophers taught you. But according to the Scriptures, the Christ of the Bible who teaches me and Zacharias and Peter in the way that we should go, knows the choices we will make, because HE has already seen them. Maybe your god didn't know from the foundation of the world, that Zacharias wouldn't bow down to the establishment religion of his time but would be faithful to God as a servant of His Righteousness. But the Holy One of Israel did. At least the
Christ of the Bible did.

Just because I wasn't indoctrinated by your chosen religious school, doesn't automatically make my understanding of God's Word a "Misquote & misuse" of Scriptures.

You can't prove the concept of the Godhead is wrong and you haven't even come close to a beginning of an effort. Nor do you understand all of Luke1 and what really happened with Zacharias and why he recognized the Messiah, which I just explained to you on another thread.

Where do you see the word "justified" in Eph1:4? Do you have any understanding of the fact that God knew from eternity His Plan but implemented His Plan in time in His Son who is also God so we in time could make our decisions concerning Him?

Your theory is quite a mess and it's an impossible task to prove that all the revelation to men that has gone on through millennia is wrong, so God inserted Studyman into history. I don't agree with everything that all have said either, but I do value what others have seen that compares well with what I see in His Text. You're simply misusing His Word and denigrating anyone who disagrees with your out of context out of historical flow weak theory.