Galatians 4 two opposing covenants.

[BrotherJJ]

Bond & Free

Gal 4:
21 Tell me, you who are bent on being under the Law, do you not listen to [what] the Law [really says]?

22 For it is written that Abraham had two sons, one by the slave woman [Hagar] and one by the free woman [Sarah].

23 But the child of the slave woman was born according to the flesh and had an ordinary birth, while the son of the free woman was born in fulfillment of the promise.

24 Now these facts are about to be used [by me] as an allegory [that is, I will illustrate by using them]: for these women can represent two covenants: one [covenant originated] from Mount Sinai [where the Law was given] that bears children [destined] for slavery; she is Hagar.
(MY NOTE: Hagar & Sarah represent 2 different covenants. Hagar a bondservant/slave represents the Old Mosaic LAW covenant, written on stone & a circumcision made with human hands. All those that place themselves under it are bondage/slaves to it)

25 Now Hagar is (represents) Mount Sinai in Arabia and she corresponds to the present Jerusalem, for she is in slavery with her children.
(MY NOTE: The apostle compares the Sinai/Mosaic law to covenant slavery & the physical Jerusalem. Hagar a bondservant/slave of Abraham. Israelis were bondservants/slaves under/to the law)

26 But the Jerusalem above [that is, the way of faith, represented by Sarah] is free; she is our mother.
(MY NOTE: Sarah represents the New from above/spiritual Jerusalem Covenant. Spiritually written on the heart & mind (Heb 8:10 & 10:16) made without human hands (Col 2:11 & Rom 2:29)

27 For it is written [in the Scriptures], “Rejoice, o barren woman who has not given birth; Break forth into a [joyful] shout, you who are not in labor; For the desolate woman has many more children than she who has a husband.”
(MY NOTE: In this allegory Hagar, who represents the Mosaic covenant cut on Sinai, has NO husband? (See why, Eze 16:8, Jer 3:8 below)

28 And we, [believing] brothers and sisters, like Isaac, are children [not merely of physical descent, like Ishmael, but are children born] of promise [born miraculously].

29 But as at that time the child [of ordinary birth] born according to the flesh persecuted the son who was born according to [the promise and working of] the Spirit, so it is now also.

30 But what does the Scripture say? “Cast out the bondwoman [Hagar] and her son [Ishmael], For never shall the son of the bondwoman be heir and share the inheritance with the son of the free woman.”

31 So then, believers, we [who are born again—reborn from above—spiritually transformed, renewed, and set apart for His purpose] are not children of a slave woman [the natural], but of the free woman [the supernatural]
Scripture link: Bible Gateway passage: Galatians 4 - Amplified Bible

Skirt/talith of protection
Eze 16:8 Now when I passed by thee, and looked upon thee, behold, thy time was the time of love; and I spread my skirt over thee, and covered thy nakedness: yea, I sware unto thee, and entered into a covenant with thee, saith the Lord GOD, and thou becamest mine.
(MY NOTE: The LORD say's He spread His skirt of protection over them. Entering in a marriage covenant & they became His)

Jer 3:8 And I saw [that even though Judah knew] that for all the acts of adultery (idolatry) of faithless Israel, I [the Lord] had sent her away and given her a certificate of divorce, yet her treacherous sister Judah was not afraid; but she went and was a prostitute also [following after idols].
(MY NOTE: The LORD gave Sinai a DIVORCE! The Sinai covenant, was a marriage covenant [the 10 commandments the contract[. The Lord calls Himself Israels husband. (Isa 54:5, Jer 31:32)

Ruth 3:9 And he said, Who art thou? And she answered, I am Ruth thine handmaid: ""spread therefore thy skirt over thine handmaid"" for thou art a near kinsman.
(MY NOTE: Spread therefore thy skirt [TALITH] over thine hand maid. Allegory/When a Jewish man married a woman, he threw the end of his his skirt [TALITH] over her head, covering her, to signify that she was now under his covering/protection. When you invite/ask the Lord into your heart. He covers/indwells/seals you [2 Cor 1:22, 5:5, 2 Tim 1:14, Eph 4:30], eternally with his Holy Spirit of protection)

My final note: Two Jerusalem's Earthly & Heavenly

Jerusalem from the Hebrew Yerushalayim. Hebrew nouns ending in """im""" are always plural

When ever we say the word or read about Jerusalem. It is expressed Jerusalem's.

Jewish Sages speak of two Jerusalem's: Yerushalayim Shel Mata (Jerusalem Below) & Yerushalyim Shel Mala (Jerusalem Above).

 

[BobRyan]

Part of Gal 4 deals with God's old covenant vs God's new covenant. (Even though the first 11 verses deal specifically with former pagans who turn to Christ, then start to adopt a kind of syncretism merging their old pagan practices with Bible practices)

In Gen 2 we find that God's first covenant (old covenant) was "obey and live". In Gal 3:10-13 we find that same condition as the old covenant.

OLD Covenant:

​

Gen 2:16 The Lord God commanded the man, saying, “From any tree of the garden you may freely eat; 17 but from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for on the day that you eat from it you will certainly die.”​

​

Gal 3:10 For all who are of works of the Law are under a curse; for it is written: “Cursed is everyone who does not abide by all the things written in the book of the Law, to do them.” 11 Now, that no one is justified by the Law before God is evident; for, “the righteous one will live by faith.” 12 However, the Law is not of faith; on the contrary, “The person who performs them will live by them.” 13 Christ redeemed us from the curse of the Law, having become a curse for us—for it is written: “Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree”​

Rom 3:19-21

19 Now we know that whatever the Law says, it speaks to those who are under the Law, so that every mouth may be closed and all the world may become accountable to God; 20 because by the works of the Law none of mankind will be justified in His sight; for through the Law comes knowledge of sin.​

It is not a different moral law (as most Christian denominations confirm) - but rather it is a different relationship to that law. So it is always a 'sin' to take God's name in vain - no matter which covenant you are under. But under the Old Covenant - even one violation gets the sinner "the second death" punishment as described in Rev 20.

Rom 3:19-21 also confirms this same point and defines the term "under the law" as being "under the law apart from faith".

==================================

By contrast the NEW Covenant Jer 31:31-34 as stated in both the OT and in the NT Heb 8:6-12 is the same in both OT and NT. It also has the same moral law of God -- but it does not exclude grace and forgiveness. Rather it includes both as well as the new birth and adoption into the family of God.

==================================

Conclusion. It is a sin to "take God's name in vain" in BOTH the old covenant and in the new covenant. But in the new covenant there is forgiveness of sins, the new birth and the Holy Spirit's power to walk in obedience to God's Law as Romans 6 points out.

No wonder Paul says in Rom 3:31 "31 Do we then nullify the Law through faith? Far from it! On the contrary, we establish the Law."

No wonder Paul writes this to the church of Corinth "what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God" 1 Cor 7:19 where (as Paul says in Eph 6:2)_ "The first commandment with a promise - is 'Honor your father and mother'".

No wonder Paul argues in Gal 4 - against the idea of refusing the Jer 31:31-34 New Covenant and choosing instead to remain under the Old Covenant "Obey and live"

 

[Soyeong]

Bond & Free

Gal 4:
21 Tell me, you who are bent on being under the Law, do you not listen to [what] the Law [really says]?

22 For it is written that Abraham had two sons, one by the slave woman [Hagar] and one by the free woman [Sarah].

23 But the child of the slave woman was born according to the flesh and had an ordinary birth, while the son of the free woman was born in fulfillment of the promise.

24 Now these facts are about to be used [by me] as an allegory [that is, I will illustrate by using them]: for these women can represent two covenants: one [covenant originated] from Mount Sinai [where the Law was given] that bears children [destined] for slavery; she is Hagar.
(MY NOTE: Hagar & Sarah represent 2 different covenants. Hagar a bondservant/slave represents the Old Mosaic LAW covenant, written on stone & a circumcision made with human hands. All those that place themselves under it are bondage/slaves to it)

25 Now Hagar is (represents) Mount Sinai in Arabia and she corresponds to the present Jerusalem, for she is in slavery with her children.
(MY NOTE: The apostle compares the Sinai/Mosaic law to covenant slavery & the physical Jerusalem. Hagar a bondservant/slave of Abraham. Israelis were bondservants/slaves under/to the law)

26 But the Jerusalem above [that is, the way of faith, represented by Sarah] is free; she is our mother.
(MY NOTE: Sarah represents the New from above/spiritual Jerusalem Covenant. Spiritually written on the heart & mind (Heb 8:10 & 10:16) made without human hands (Col 2:11 & Rom 2:29)

27 For it is written [in the Scriptures], “Rejoice, o barren woman who has not given birth; Break forth into a [joyful] shout, you who are not in labor; For the desolate woman has many more children than she who has a husband.”
(MY NOTE: In this allegory Hagar, who represents the Mosaic covenant cut on Sinai, has NO husband? (See why, Eze 16:8, Jer 3:8 below)

28 And we, [believing] brothers and sisters, like Isaac, are children [not merely of physical descent, like Ishmael, but are children born] of promise [born miraculously].

29 But as at that time the child [of ordinary birth] born according to the flesh persecuted the son who was born according to [the promise and working of] the Spirit, so it is now also.

30 But what does the Scripture say? “Cast out the bondwoman [Hagar] and her son [Ishmael], For never shall the son of the bondwoman be heir and share the inheritance with the son of the free woman.”

31 So then, believers, we [who are born again—reborn from above—spiritually transformed, renewed, and set apart for His purpose] are not children of a slave woman [the natural], but of the free woman [the supernatural]
Scripture link: Bible Gateway passage: Galatians 4 - Amplified Bible

Skirt/talith of protection
Eze 16:8 Now when I passed by thee, and looked upon thee, behold, thy time was the time of love; and I spread my skirt over thee, and covered thy nakedness: yea, I sware unto thee, and entered into a covenant with thee, saith the Lord GOD, and thou becamest mine.
(MY NOTE: The LORD say's He spread His skirt of protection over them. Entering in a marriage covenant & they became His)

Jer 3:8 And I saw [that even though Judah knew] that for all the acts of adultery (idolatry) of faithless Israel, I [the Lord] had sent her away and given her a certificate of divorce, yet her treacherous sister Judah was not afraid; but she went and was a prostitute also [following after idols].
(MY NOTE: The LORD gave Sinai a DIVORCE! The Sinai covenant, was a marriage covenant [the 10 commandments the contract[. The Lord calls Himself Israels husband. (Isa 54:5, Jer 31:32)

Ruth 3:9 And he said, Who art thou? And she answered, I am Ruth thine handmaid: ""spread therefore thy skirt over thine handmaid"" for thou art a near kinsman.
(MY NOTE: Spread therefore thy skirt [TALITH] over thine hand maid. Allegory/When a Jewish man married a woman, he threw the end of his his skirt [TALITH] over her head, covering her, to signify that she was now under his covering/protection. When you invite/ask the Lord into your heart. He covers/indwells/seals you [2 Cor 1:22, 5:5, 2 Tim 1:14, Eph 4:30], eternally with his Holy Spirit of protection)

My final note: Two Jerusalem's Earthly & Heavenly

Jerusalem from the Hebrew Yerushalayim. Hebrew nouns ending in """im""" are always plural

When ever we say the word or read about Jerusalem. It is expressed Jerusalem's.

Jewish Sages speak of two Jerusalem's: Yerushalayim Shel Mata (Jerusalem Below) & Yerushalyim Shel Mala (Jerusalem Above).

If God saved the Israelites out of bondage in Egypt in order to put them under bondage to the Mosaic Law, then it would be for bondage that God sets us free, however, Galatians 5:1 says that it is for freedom that God sets us free, which undermines what you just said about Galatians 4. In Psalms 119:45, the Mosaic Law is of freedom. In Psalms 119:142, the Mosaic Law is truth, and in John 8:31-36, it is sin in transgression of the Mosaic Law that puts us in bondage while it is the truth that set us free. So God did not put His children into bondage by giving the Mosaic Law, but rather He knows how to give good gift to His children that are for our own good (Deuteronomy 6:24, 10:12-13).

Furthermore, the Mosaic Covenant did not come through through the line of the son born of the slave women, but rather it came through the line of the son of the promise and the free woman, so you are completely missing Paul's point. In Genesis 18:19, Genesis 26:4-5, and Deuteronomy 30:16, being children of the promise is directly connected to living in obedience to the Mosaic Law. In Ezekiel 36:26-27, the Spirit has the role of leading us to obey the Mosaic Law, so being born of the Spirit does not refer to casting out the Mosaic Law, but just the opposite.

 

[Clare73]

Bond & Free
Gal 4:21 Tell me, you who are bent on being under the Law, do you not listen to [what] the Law [really says]?
22 For it is written that Abraham had two sons, one by the slave woman [Hagar] and one by the free woman [Sarah].
23 But the child of the slave woman was born according to the flesh and had an ordinary birth, while the son of the free woman was born in fulfillment of the promise.
24 Now these facts are about to be used [by me] as an allegory [that is, I will illustrate by using them]: for these women can represent two covenants: one [covenant originated] from Mount Sinai [where the Law was given] that bears children [destined] for slavery; she is Hagar.
(MY NOTE: Hagar & Sarah represent 2 different covenants. Hagar a bondservant/slave represents the Old Mosaic LAW covenant, written on stone & a circumcision made with human hands. All those that place themselves under it are bondage/slaves to it)
25 Now Hagar is (represents) Mount Sinai in Arabia and she corresponds to the present Jerusalem, for she is in slavery with her children.
(MY NOTE: The apostle compares the Sinai/Mosaic law to covenant slavery & the physical Jerusalem. Hagar a bondservant/slave of Abraham. Israelis were bondservants/slaves under/to the law)
26 But the Jerusalem above [that is, the way of faith, represented by Sarah] is free; she is our mother.
(MY NOTE: Sarah represents the New from above/spiritual Jerusalem Covenant. Spiritually written on the heart & mind (Heb 8:10 & 10:16) made without human hands (Col 2:11 & Rom 2:29)
27 For it is written [in the Scriptures], “Rejoice, o barren woman who has not given birth; Break forth into a [joyful] shout, you who are not in labor; For the desolate woman has many more children than she who has a husband.”
(MY NOTE: In this allegory Hagar, who represents the Mosaic covenant cut on Sinai, has NO husband? (See why, Eze 16:8, Jer 3:8 below)
28 And we, [believing] brothers and sisters, like Isaac, are children [not merely of physical descent, like Ishmael, but are children born] of promise [born miraculously].
29 But as at that time the child [of ordinary birth] born according to the flesh persecuted the son who was born according to [the promise and working of] the Spirit, so it is now also.
30 But what does the Scripture say? “Cast out the bondwoman [Hagar] and her son [Ishmael], For never shall the son of the bondwoman be heir and share the inheritance with the son of the free woman.”
31 So then, believers, we [who are born again—reborn from above—spiritually transformed, renewed, and set apart for His purpose] are not children of a slave woman [the natural], but of the free woman [the supernatural]
Scripture link: Bible Gateway passage: Galatians 4 - Amplified Bible

Skirt/talith of protection
Eze 16:8 Now when I passed by thee, and looked upon thee, behold, thy time was the time of love; and I spread my skirt over thee, and covered thy nakedness: yea, I sware unto thee, and entered into a covenant with thee, saith the Lord GOD, and thou becamest mine.
(MY NOTE: The LORD say's He spread His skirt of protection over them. Entering in a marriage covenant & they became His)

Jer 3:8 And I saw [that even though Judah knew] that for all the acts of adultery (idolatry) of faithless Israel, I [the Lord] had sent her away and given her a certificate of divorce, yet her treacherous sister Judah was not afraid; but she went and was a prostitute also [following after idols].
(MY NOTE: The LORD gave Sinai a DIVORCE! The Sinai covenant, was a marriage covenant [the 10 commandments the contract[. The Lord calls Himself Israels husband. (Isa 54:5, Jer 31:32)

Ruth 3:9 And he said, Who art thou? And she answered, I am Ruth thine handmaid: ""spread therefore thy skirt over thine handmaid"" for thou art a near kinsman.
(MY NOTE: Spread therefore thy skirt [TALITH] over thine hand maid. Allegory/When a Jewish man married a woman, he threw the end of his his skirt [TALITH] over her head, covering her, to signify that she was now under his covering/protection. When you invite/ask the Lord into your heart. He covers/indwells/seals you [2 Cor 1:22, 5:5, 2 Tim 1:14, Eph 4:30], eternally with his Holy Spirit of protection)

My final note: Two Jerusalem's Earthly & Heavenly
Jerusalem from the Hebrew Yerushalayim. Hebrew nouns ending in """im""" are always plural
When ever we say the word or read about Jerusalem. It is expressed Jerusalem's.

Jewish Sages speak of two Jerusalem's: Yerushalayim Shel Mata (Jerusalem Below) & Yerushalyim Shel Mala (Jerusalem Above).

While NT apostolic teaching is:

30 But what does the Scripture say? “Cast out the bondwoman (Jerusalem Below) and her son, For never shall the son of the bondwoman be heir and share the inheritance with the son of the free woman.” (Jerusalem Above).

 

[Soyeong]

While NT apostolic teaching is:

30 But what does the Scripture say? “Cast out the bondwoman (Jerusalem Below) and her son, For never shall the son of the bondwoman be heir and share the inheritance with the son of the free woman.” (Jerusalem Above).

I didn't say anything contrary to that. Why do you think that the present Jerusalem was described as the son of the slave woman rather than the son of the free woman? It seems pretty clear to me that Paul's problem was with present Jerusalem that was not in accordance with what God established through the line of the son of the free woman.

 

[Clare73]

I didn't say anything contrary to that. Why do you think that the present Jerusalem was described as the son of the slave woman rather than the son of the free woman? It seems pretty clear to me that Paul's problem was with present Jerusalem that was not in accordance with what God established through the line of the son of the free woman.

Paul's analogy is about salvation by faith and freedom in Christ and not by law keeping, with law keeping being excluded (cast out) as the means of salvation.

 

[Soyeong]

Paul's analogy is about salvation by faith and freedom in Christ and not by law keeping, with law keeping being excluded (cast out) as the means of salvation.

God's law was never given as a means of earning our salvation, but to teach us how to have faith and freedom in Christ.

 

[Clare73]

God's law was never given as a means of earning our salvation, but to teach us how to have faith and freedom in Christ.

The Jews believed and taught that it was the means of righteousness to Paradise, which is what Paul is addressing.

 

[Lulav]

Gal 3:10 For all who are of works of the Law are under a curse;

How convoluted is that?

So that means Jesus was 'under a curse'?​

for it is written: “Cursed is everyone who does not abide by all the things written in the book of the Law, to do them.”

Taken out of context, this is what it fully says:

Curses Pronounced from Ebal - Deut 27

11And Moses commanded the people on the same day, saying, 12“These shall stand on Mount Gerizim to bless the people, when you have crossed over the Jordan: Simeon, Levi, Judah, Issachar, Joseph, and Benjamin; 13and these shall stand on Mount Ebal to curse: Reuben, Gad, Asher, Zebulun, Dan, and Naphtali.​

14“And the Levites shall speak with a loud voice and say to all the men of Israel:​

​

15‘Cursed is the one who makes a carved or molded image, an abomination to the Lord, the work of the hands of the craftsman, and sets it up in secret.’ - “And all the people shall answer and say, ‘Amen!’​

​

16‘Cursed is the one who treats his father or his mother with contempt.’-“And all the people shall say, ‘Amen!’​

​

17‘Cursed is the one who moves his neighbor’s landmark.’ - “And all the people shall say, ‘Amen!’​

​

18‘Cursed is the one who makes the blind to wander off the road.’ - “And all the people shall say, ‘Amen!’​

​

19‘Cursed is the one who perverts the justice due the stranger, the fatherless, and widow.’-“And all the people shall say, ‘Amen!’​

​

20‘Cursed is the one who lies with his father’s wife, because he has uncovered his father’s bed.’-“And all the people shall say, ‘Amen!’​

​

21‘Cursed is the one who lies with any kind of animal.’ - “And all the people shall say, ‘Amen!’​

​

22‘Cursed is the one who lies with his sister, the daughter of his father or the daughter of his mother.’ “And all the people shall say, ‘Amen!’​

​

23‘Cursed is the one who lies with his mother-in-law.’ - “And all the people shall say, ‘Amen!’​

​

24‘Cursed is the one who attacks his neighbor secretly.’ - “And all the people shall say, ‘Amen!’​

​

25 ‘Cursed is the one who takes a bribe to slay an innocent person.’ - “And all the people shall say, ‘Amen!’​

​

26‘Cursed is the one who does not confirm all the words of these laws by observing them.’ “And all the people shall say, ‘Amen!’ ”​

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
There were also blessings too but I won't get into that.

Suffice it to say that these are the things one would be cursed for, not the whole law.
(I've placed besides each one below designated by the chapter verse, then the law its talking about then the number of the 10 commandments it falls under)

15 - Idolatry -- #2
16 - Not honoring Father or Mother - #5
17 - Theft - #8
18 - Harming those with disabilities ---- V'ahaftah (loving neighbor)
19 - Keeping justice for widows, orphans and the stranger - V'ahaftah (loving neighbor)
20 - Sexual immorality - also Dishonoring Father and Mother - #5
21 - inappropriate behavior with animals - Sexual Immorality
22 - Sexual immorality - also Dishonoring Father and Mother - #5
23 - Sexual immorality - also Dishonoring Father and Mother - #5
24 - Not loving neighbor - Murder - #6
25 - Not loving neighbor - Murder - #6

26 - You are cursed if you do not uphold these laws above
Meaning, Don't do them!

11 Now, that no one is justified by the Law before God is evident; for, “the righteous one will live by faith.”

That snippet comes from Habakkuk 2, a favorite part that Paul uses elsewhere not taking into account at all the context.

1I will stand my watch
And set myself on the rampart,
And watch to see what He will say to me,
And what I will answer when I am corrected.​

​

2 Then the Lord answered me and said:​

“Write the vision And make it plain on tablets, That he may run who reads it.
3 For the vision is yet for an appointed time;But at the end it will speak, and it will not lie.
Though it tarries, wait for it; Because it will surely come, It will not tarry.​

​

4 “Behold the proud,His soul is not upright in him;​

But the just shall live by his faith.​

'The Just' = tsaddiq - a righteous one, one who is lawful

Same word used in Deut 4:8 And what great nation is there that has such statutes and righteous judgments as are in all this law which I set before you this day?

The righteous one will believe that the vision will come at the appointed time, that is the faith spoken of here, not aside from being righteous, from being lawful.

12 However, the Law is not of faith; on the contrary, “The person who performs them will live by them.”

Yes, just like eating will bring you life, drinking water will bring you life, following God's commandments brings lift,
You will live by doing them.

13 Christ redeemed us from the curse of the Law, having become a curse for us—for it is written: “Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree”

Yet Jesus is said to have been the spotless lamb, no blemish of sin in him...

So again, was Jesus under a curse for keeping the law? Then he became a curse for us?

"For all who are of works of the Law are under a curse"​

 

[biblelesson]

Suffice it to say that these are the things one would be cursed for, not the whole law.
(I've placed besides each one below designated by the chapter verse, then the law its talking about then the number of the 10 commandments it falls under

It’s ALL. ”Deuteronomy 27:26, “Cursed be he that confirms not all the words of this law to do them.’ “And all the people shall say, ‘Amen!”

Because Israel did not keep ALL of the laws, a cursed was put over the law, which is what Apostle Paul is talking about in Galatians 3:13 KJV, so because that curse could not be erased and affected all of mankind, Christ came to redeem man from that curse over the law.

Galatians 3:10 KJV, “Cursed is everyone who does not continue in all (ALL) things which are written in the book of the law, to do them.” If a person does any part of the law, and do not continue in them ALL, (all 613 of the laws), then the curse applies. So because we can’t keep all 613 laws, if we go ahead and practice any one of them, the curse Israel put over the law will apply to us.

If one law is broken, all (ALL) the laws are broken, James 2:10 KJV.

The law, any part of it, is the bond woman. You are bound by it to keep it, to do it. This is the law of sin and death.

Salvation in Christ is the free woman - no law required. We are saved from the curse of the law. This is the law of the Spirit of life.

Romans 8:2 KJV, For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

 

[Lulav]

It’s ALL. ”Deuteronomy 27:26, “Cursed be he that confirms not all the words of this law to do them.’ “And all the people shall say, ‘Amen!”

Because Israel did not keep ALL of the laws, a cursed was put over the law, which is what Apostle Paul is talking about in Galatians 3:13 KJV, so because that curse could not be erased and affected all of mankind, Christ came to redeem man from that curse over the law.

So there is a curse on anyone that:

Loves the LORD with all your heart, soul and might.

Does not murder
Does not steal
Helps a neighbor when he needs it

etc

And does these things and teaches others to do so?

Galatians 3:10 KJV, “Cursed is everyone who does not continue in all (ALL) things which are written in the book of the law, to do them.” If a person does any part of the law, and do not continue in them ALL, (all 613 of the laws), then the curse applies. So because we can’t keep all 613 laws, if we go ahead and practice any one of them, the curse Israel put over the law will apply to us.

No we, nor any individual can as it is a corporate set of laws, given to a nation.

No one can keep them all because
1. not everyone is a man
2. Not everyone is a woman
3. Not everyone is a Levite
4. Not everyone is of age
5. Not everyone is married ,, etc
6. Not everyone is a King (yes there were laws for them too)

Not to mention that there is no tabernacle or Temple standing

If one law is broken, all (ALL) the laws are broken, James 2:10 KJV.

The law, any part of it, is the bond woman. You are bound by it to keep it, to do it. This is the law of sin and death.

The Laws of God are perfect, not the law of sin

Salvation in Christ is the free woman - no law required. We are saved from the curse of the law. This is the law of the Spirit of life.

Romans 8:2 KJV, For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

The 'law of the Spirit of life'?
What exactly is that?
Are you under it?
Do you keep it?
How do you keep it?

 

[Studyman]

The Jews believed and taught that it was the means of righteousness to Paradise, which is what Paul is addressing.

This is a popular belief promoted by this world's religions. That the Pharisees were trying to earn salvation by "obeying God". While it is true they promoted their corrupted version of the Levitical Priesthood in order to gain forgiveness, even after the Priesthood had changed as Prophesied, the Pharisees were not trying to please God or earn salvation by obeying Him. At least not according to the Christ of the Bible.

Zacharias and Simeon "Yielded themselves" servants to obey God as Paul instructs. The Body of the Christ of the Bible "Yields themselves" servants to obey God, and they become "Servants of God's Righteousness", as Paul teaches.

But the Pharisees taught for doctrines the commandments of men. They "laid aside" the Commandments of God so they could promote their lawless religious traditions. They persecuted the "The Church of God". Yes, they "SAID" they taught the Law of Moses, but they didn't. They didn't even believe him. The Christ of the Bible tells us this flat out. And Paul also warns about them.

Titus 1: 13 This witness is true. Wherefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith; 14 Not giving heed to Jewish fables, and commandments of men, that turn from the truth. 15 Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled. 16 They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.

So the Pharisees taught that a person must join "their" religion, to enter Paradise. That practice of promoting one's own religion as the way to eternal life, is a universal religious tradition of this world. Most all religious sects and franchises do this even today. The Pharisees had created their own Laws and had laid God's Laws aside in order to promote their own religious traditions. They had created their Own Sabbath Law, their own high days, their Own judgments and "SAID" they were from God. But they were not, that is, if a person believes the Christ of the bible.

John 8: 42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: (Like Zacharias, Simeon, Anna, and the Wise men) for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me. 43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word. 44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it. 45 And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.

So next time you hear a religious voice telling you that the "The Jews believed and taught that keeping God's Law was the means of righteousness to Paradise", you will know this philosophy is a deception, and a falsehood exposed, not by men but by the Inspired Words of God.

This was the great difference between the Christ's and Paul's teaching, and the Pharisees.

Here is the Christ describing the Pharisees, who were the mainstream religion of the world HE was placed in.

Mark. 7: 6 He answered and said unto them, Well hath Esaias prophesied of you hypocrites, as it is written, This people honoureth me with their lips, but their heart is far from me. 7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men. 8 For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do. 9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.

Here is Paul speaking to the Body of Christ over 14 years after Christ ascended, about how to treat the Law and Prophets.

2 Tim. 3: 13 But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived. 14 But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them; 15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. 16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

Sadly, "many" who call the Christ Lord, Lord, don't really believe what is written. "And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity."

 

[Clare73]

This is a popular belief promoted by this world's religions. That the Pharisees were trying to earn salvation by "obeying God". While it is true they promoted their corrupted version of the Levitical Priesthood in order to gain forgiveness, even after the Priesthood had changed as Prophesied, the Pharisees were not trying to please God or earn salvation by obeying Him. At least not according to the Christ of the Bible.

To what are you referring here?

Zacharias and Simeon "Yielded themselves" servants to obey God as Paul instructs. The Body of the Christ of the Bible "Yields themselves" servants to obey God, and they become "Servants of God's Righteousness", as Paul teaches.

But the Pharisees taught for doctrines the commandments of men. They "laid aside" the Commandments of God so they could promote their lawless religious traditions. They persecuted the "The Church of God". Yes, they "SAID" they taught the Law of Moses, but they didn't. They didn't even believe him. The Christ of the Bible tells us this flat out.

That is taken out of context.

And Paul also warns about them.

Paul is referring to the Judaizers who maintained circumcision was required for salvation, he is not referring to all Jews.
The Jewish religion was the OT Scriptures.

Titus 1: 13 This witness is true. Wherefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith; 14 Not giving heed to Jewish fables, and commandments of men, that turn from the truth. 15 Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled. 16 They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.

Paul is here referring to those who in addition to holding that circumcision was required, also held to unscriptural Jewish myths and genealogies which later developed into intricate Gnostic philosophical systems of aceticism (Tit 1:14-15), which considered to be corrupt and evil what God declared to be good.
Paul is not referring to all Jews, whose religion was the OT Scriptures.

So the Pharisees taught that a person must join "their" religion, to enter Paradise.

The Jewish religion was the OT Scriptures.
That Judaism was God's authoritative religion was not a fiction of the Pharisees.
The teachers of the law sat in the seat of Moses; i.e., they were the authorized successors of Moses as teachers of the law.
Jesus upheld their authority, but not their behavior regarding the law (Mt 23:2-3).

And yes, Judaism was God's authorized religion to enter Paradise, based on perfect law-keeping, which no one was able to achieve.

That practice of promoting one's own religion as the way to eternal life, is a universal religious tradition of this world. Most all religious sects and franchises do this even today.

Judaism was not a sect nor a franchise. It was the revealed religion of God for the OT people of God.
That it was abused by the Pharisees does not negate either the legitimacy nor the authority of the Scriptures of the Jewish religion.

The Pharisees had created their own Laws and had laid God's Laws aside in order to promote their own religious traditions. They had created their Own Sabbath Law, their own high days, their Own judgments and "SAID" they were from God. But they were not, that is, if a person believes the Christ of the bible.

None of which abolished the Mosaic laws given by God nor altered the Jewish Scriptures.

John 8: 42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: (Like Zacharias, Simeon, Anna, and the Wise men) for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me. 43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word. 44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it. 45 And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.

So next time you hear a religious voice telling you that the "The Jews believed and taught that keeping God's Law was the means of righteousness to Paradise", you will know this philosophy is a deception, and a falsehood exposed, not by men but by the Inspired Words of God.

That the Jews understood righteousness to be by law keeping is everywhere testified to in the NT by Paul.
You are confusing the teaching of the Pharisees with the Jewish religion of the Scriptures.

This was the great difference between the Christ's and Paul's teaching, and the Pharisees.

Here is the Christ describing the Pharisees, who were the mainstream religion of the world HE was placed in.

The Jewish religion is not of the Pharisees, it is of the Scriptures.
That tradition over many years altered the practice of the law, does not negate the Jewish religion of the Scriptures.

Mark. 7: 6 He answered and said unto them, Well hath Esaias prophesied of you hypocrites, as it is written, This people honoureth me with their lips, but their heart is far from me. 7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men. 8 For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do. 9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.

Here is Paul speaking to the Body of Christ over 14 years after Christ ascended, about how to treat the Law and Prophets.

2 Tim. 3: 13 But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived. 14 But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them; 15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. 16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

Note that Paul affirmed the Scriptures as the Jewish religion.

Sadly, "many" who call the Christ Lord, Lord, don't really believe what is written. "And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity."

 

[Studyman]

To what are you referring here?

I am addressing one of many insidious lies that has been created by men who come in Christ's Name and promoted for centuries. And that is that the Pharisees religion, was the Law and Prophets, or the Old Testament. Yes, this lie is widely believed and promoted. But it is a deception just the same. Zacharias, Simeon, Anna, the Wise men, Paul, Peter, Cornelious and many others, these men of Faith, members of God's True Church, honored the Holy Scriptures for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

But the Pharisees had just used some of the Words of God to create a lucrative religious business and created their own religion. At least according to the Jesus of the Bible.

Mark 7: 9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.

John 2: 14 And found in the temple those that sold oxen and sheep and doves, and the changers of money sitting: 15 And when he had made a scourge of small cords, he drove them all out of the temple, and the sheep, and the oxen; and poured out the changers' money, and overthrew the tables; 16 And said unto them that sold doves, Take these things hence; make not my Father's house an house of merchandise.

That is taken out of context.

Perhaps it doesn't align with one of this world's many religious sects or franchises you may have adopted. But it aligns perfectly with the Holy Scriptures that Paul said to "continue in".

Paul is referring to the Judaizers who maintained circumcision was required for salvation, he is not referring to all Jews.
The Jewish religion was the OT Scriptures.

A Jew is one inwardly, and circumcision is of the heart. Has this not always been true? And yes, as Jesus declares, "Salvation is of the Jews".

But the Pharisees didn't understand circumcision, they didn't believe Moses, they taught for doctrines the commandments of men, they Laid aside the Commandment of God by their own religious traditions, they were "ignorant" of God's Righteousness and went about to establish their own, they had the Oracles of God but didn't believe them. They Omitted the most important parts of God's Laws, they caused those who listened to them to become children of the devil as they were. In their Law, the Church of God was persecuted and its members murdered, and their father was not the God of Abraham as they "Professed", but their father was the devil.

So for the Faithful Jews and Gentiles, Paul and the Body of the Christ of the Bible, Yes, they "Yielded Themselves" to obey God's Inspired Word, as Jesus did and directed. And Yes, they became servants of God's Righteousness, not their own. And Circumcision, as God through Moses tells us, is still a requirement for salvation. God's Word still holds true even today, "Circumcise therefore the foreskin of your heart, and be no more stiffnecked.". Which means, as Jesus teaches, "Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand."

The Gospel of the Christ of the Bible was given to Israel, just as it was given to us. But with many, God was not well pleased.

Heb. 4: 1 Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it. 2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith (Belief) in them that heard it.

But not all Israel rebelled. WE also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses. Abraham, Caleb, Meshak, Daniel, Zacharias, Simeon, Peter, Cornelious, Paul, and many more Faithful members of the Body of Christ.

And yes, the "Way of the Lord" is found in the OT, where the Righteousness of God is revealed, and the wrath of God is revealed against the unrighteousness and ungodliness of men.

Paul is here referring to those who in addition to holding that circumcision was required,

This is a deception. They didn't promote the "circumcision" of God. They promoted their own which didn't involve the circumcision of the heart. Any man who adopted the religious philosophies of these children of the devil, including their Circumcision, were cursed. God's own Word, that they didn't believe, prophesy of this very thing.

Jer. 9: 23 Thus saith the LORD, Let not the wise man glory in his wisdom, neither let the mighty man glory in his might, let not the rich man glory in his riches:

24 But let him that glorieth glory in this, that he understandeth and knoweth me, that I am the LORD which exercise lovingkindness, judgment, and righteousness, in the earth: for in these things I delight, saith the LORD.

25 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will punish all them which are circumcised with the uncircumcised;

26 Egypt, and Judah, and Edom, and the children of Ammon, and Moab, and all that are in the utmost corners, that dwell in the wilderness: for all these nations are uncircumcised, and all the house of Israel are uncircumcised in the heart.

also held to unscriptural Jewish myths and genealogies which later developed into intricate Gnostic philosophical systems of aceticism (Tit 1:14-15), which considered to be corrupt and evil what God declared to be good.
Paul is not referring to all Jews, whose religion was the OT Scriptures.

Again, you are free to adopt whatever religious philosopher you want. But here is what the God of the Bible said about the disobedient Jews in the Law and Prophets.

Ez. 20: 10 Wherefore I caused them to go forth out of the land of Egypt, and brought them into the wilderness. 11 And I gave them my statutes, and shewed them my judgments, which if a man do, he shall even live in them. 12 Moreover also I gave them my sabbaths, to be a sign between me and them, that they might know that I am the LORD that sanctify them.

13 But the house of Israel rebelled against me in the wilderness: they walked not in my statutes, and they despised my judgments, which if a man do, he shall even live in them; and my sabbaths they greatly polluted: then I said, I would pour out my fury upon them in the wilderness, to consume them.

And the Jesus of the Bible said;

Matt. 15: 7 Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias (Isaiah) prophesy of you, saying, 8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me. 9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

And Stephen, inspired by the Spirit of Christ;

Acts 7: 51 Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye.

52 Which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted? and they have slain them which shewed before of the coming of the Just One; of whom ye have been now the betrayers and murderers: 53 Who have received the law by the disposition of angels, and have not kept it.

Jesus and Paul both lived by the Law and Prophets. Where you are deceived, is not understanding, or accepting that the Pharisees were not sent by God, they were not promoting God's Laws, or the Way of the Lord that Jesus and all examples of Faith walked in.

With this lie as a foundation, everything built on it is a lie as well. The Truth of the Scriptures will set a man free from the Yoke of Bondage of this sin and deception.

It is my hope that you might consider what the Scriptures actually say. Not just the few that can be used to prop up one of this world's many religious theories or philosophies, which differ according to name above the door of the man-made shrine of worship, but as Jesus said, "Every Word" which proceeds from the mouth of God.

 

[Clare73]

I am addressing one of many insidious lies that has been created by men who come in Christ's Name and promoted for centuries. And that is that the Pharisees religion, was the Law and Prophets, or the Old Testament. Yes, this lie is widely believed and promoted. But it is a deception just the same. Zacharias, Simeon, Anna, the Wise men, Paul, Peter, Cornelious and many others, these men of Faith, members of God's True Church, honored the Holy Scriptures for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

But the Pharisees had just used some of the Words of God to create a lucrative religious business and created their own religion. At least according to the Jesus of the Bible.

Mark 7: 9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.

John 2: 14 And found in the temple those that sold oxen and sheep and doves, and the changers of money sitting: 15 And when he had made a scourge of small cords, he drove them all out of the temple, and the sheep, and the oxen; and poured out the changers' money, and overthrew the tables; 16 And said unto them that sold doves, Take these things hence; make not my Father's house an house of merchandise.

Perhaps it doesn't align with one of this world's many religious sects or franchises you may have adopted. But it aligns perfectly with the Holy Scriptures that Paul said to "continue in".

You did not answer my question regarding the priesthood.

A Jew is one inwardly, and circumcision is of the heart. Has this not always been true? And yes, as Jesus declares, "Salvation is of the Jews".

But the Pharisees didn't understand circumcision, they didn't believe Moses, they taught for doctrines the commandments of men, they Laid aside the Commandment of God by their own religious traditions, they were "ignorant" of God's Righteousness and went about to establish their own, they had the Oracles of God but didn't believe them. They Omitted the most important parts of God's Laws, they caused those who listened to them to become children of the devil as they were. In their Law, the Church of God was persecuted and its members murdered, and their father was not the God of Abraham as they "Professed", but their father was the devil.

So for the Faithful Jews and Gentiles, Paul and the Body of the Christ of the Bible, Yes, they "Yielded Themselves" to obey God's Inspired Word, as Jesus did and directed. And Yes, they became servants of God's Righteousness, not their own. And Circumcision, as God through Moses tells us, is still a requirement for salvation. God's Word still holds true even today, "Circumcise therefore the foreskin of your heart, and be no more stiffnecked.". Which means, as Jesus teaches, "Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand."

The Gospel of the Christ of the Bible was given to Israel, just as it was given to us. But with many, God was not well pleased.

Heb. 4: 1 Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it. 2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith (Belief) in them that heard it.

But not all Israel rebelled. WE also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses. Abraham, Caleb, Meshak, Daniel, Zacharias, Simeon, Peter, Cornelious, Paul, and many more Faithful members of the Body of Christ.

And yes, the "Way of the Lord" is found in the OT, where the Righteousness of God is revealed, and the wrath of God is revealed against the unrighteousness and ungodliness of men.

This is a deception. They didn't promote the "circumcision" of God. They promoted their own which didn't involve the circumcision of the heart. Any man who adopted the religious philosophies of these children of the devil, including their Circumcision, were cursed. God's own Word, that they didn't believe, prophesy of this very thing.

Jer. 9: 23 Thus saith the LORD, Let not the wise man glory in his wisdom, neither let the mighty man glory in his might, let not the rich man glory in his riches:

24 But let him that glorieth glory in this, that he understandeth and knoweth me, that I am the LORD which exercise lovingkindness, judgment, and righteousness, in the earth: for in these things I delight, saith the LORD.

25 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will punish all them which are circumcised with the uncircumcised;

26 Egypt, and Judah, and Edom, and the children of Ammon, and Moab, and all that are in the utmost corners, that dwell in the wilderness: for all these nations are uncircumcised, and all the house of Israel are uncircumcised in the heart.





Again, you are free to adopt whatever religious philosopher you want. But here is what the God of the Bible said about the disobedient Jews in the Law and Prophets.

Ez. 20: 10 Wherefore I caused them to go forth out of the land of Egypt, and brought them into the wilderness. 11 And I gave them my statutes, and shewed them my judgments, which if a man do, he shall even live in them. 12 Moreover also I gave them my sabbaths, to be a sign between me and them, that they might know that I am the LORD that sanctify them.

13 But the house of Israel rebelled against me in the wilderness: they walked not in my statutes, and they despised my judgments, which if a man do, he shall even live in them; and my sabbaths they greatly polluted: then I said, I would pour out my fury upon them in the wilderness, to consume them.

And the Jesus of the Bible said;

Matt. 15: 7 Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias (Isaiah) prophesy of you, saying, 8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me. 9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

And Stephen, inspired by the Spirit of Christ;

Acts 7: 51 Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye.

52 Which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted? and they have slain them which shewed before of the coming of the Just One; of whom ye have been now the betrayers and murderers: 53 Who have received the law by the disposition of angels, and have not kept it.

Jesus and Paul both lived by the Law and Prophets. Where you are deceived, is not understanding, or accepting that the Pharisees were not sent by God, they were not promoting God's Laws, or the Way of the Lord that Jesus and all examples of Faith walked in.

With this lie as a foundation, everything built on it is a lie as well. The Truth of the Scriptures will set a man free from the Yoke of Bondage of this sin and deception.

It is my hope that you might consider what the Scriptures actually say. Not just the few that can be used to prop up one of this world's many religious theories or philosophies, which differ according to name above the door of the man-made shrine of worship, but as Jesus said, "Every Word" which proceeds from the mouth of God.

You are guilting all Jews with the guilt of the Pharisees.

Do you think Mary and Joseph were guilty of the disobedience which you assert?

 

[Studyman]

The Jewish religion was the OT Scriptures.

You need to define "Jewish religion". For those who were Jews inwardly, like Zacharias, Simeon, Anna and their Savior the Lord's Christ, and all the Members of God's Church in which Christ is the Head, the OT is what they all relied upon, for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

But as we have already established, the Pharisees didn't believe in the Oracles of God, and had created their own religion, which like all religions of this world, even the religious voice of the serpent in the garden, use "some" of God's word to promote their deception.

Neither Jesus, nor the Prophets before Him, nor His Disciples after Him, engaged in such iniquity. But "many" who come in Christ's Name, do, as Jesus Himself warns.

That Judaism was God's authoritative religion was not a fiction of the Pharisees.

It is no secret how mainstream Christianity, since it was founded by Constantine, despises the God of the OT. Judging Him and His Gospel in the way you judge Him now. And while Paul spells out why men would promote such a belief.

Rom. 1: 21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. 22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

So when the God and Father of the Lord's Christ says the following;

Jer. 9: 3 Thus saith the LORD, Let not the wise man glory in his wisdom, neither let the mighty man glory in his might, let not the rich man glory in his riches: 24 But let him that glorieth glory in this, that he understandeth and knoweth me, that I am the LORD which exercise lovingkindness, judgment, and righteousness, in the earth: for in these things I delight, saith the LORD.

You Judge Him as promoting an "authoritative religion" and deceptively imply that the Pharisees were His true spokesman, not Jesus who God actually sent.

This is why I left this world's religions by the Grace of God. They were constantly trying to convince me of falsehoods like this. Just as Jesus said would happen.

The teachers of the law sat in the seat of Moses; i.e., they were the authorized successors of Moses as teachers of the law.
Jesus upheld their authority, but not their behavior regarding the law (Mt 23:2-3).

LOL, "Jesus upheld their authority"? Are you serious? Jesus upheld "Moses" Authority. The only place to hear Moses, was when HE was read by the Hypocrites on God's Sabbaths. We have "Moses" in our own homes now, as prophesied and no longer need to listen to the Hypocrites.

Jer. 31:34 "And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD:"

"Jesus upheld their (Pharisees) authority?". Wow.

Matt. 23: 4 For they (Pharisees, not God) bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers.

"Jesus upheld their (Pharisees) authority?"

13 But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.

"Jesus upheld their (Pharisees) authority?"

15 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.

"Jesus upheld their (Pharisees) authority?"

23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone. 24 Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel.

"Jesus upheld their (Pharisees) authority?"

25 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess. 26 Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also.

I'm sorry, but the preaching that Jesus "upheld the Pharisees authority" is really ridiculous. Why would you promote such a thing?

And yes, Judaism was God's authorized religion to enter Paradise, based on perfect law-keeping, which no one was able to achieve.

What is Judaism in your religion. Was Jesus a Judaizer, who humbled Himself in obedience to God's Law unto death? Or the Pharisees, who Jesus said were the children of the devil?

Was Zacharias, Simeon, Anna and the Wise men "Judaizers" in your religion? Or the Pharisees, "Who have received the law by the disposition of angels, and have not kept it."

And why was Jesus slain from the foundation of the world, and Adam and Eve given another chance, If the "Way of the Lord" was based on perfect Law Keeping, and not Mercy?

Of course, you won't answer.

Judaism was not a sect nor a franchise. It was the revealed religion of God for the OT people of God.

Paul, who wasn't even converted until 14 years after Jesus ascended, teaches Jews and Gentiles in the Body of the Christ of the Bible, just the opposite of the religious philosophy you are promoting here. Paul said these OT Scriptures were written specifically for the Body of Christ in our time.

1 Cor. 9: 9 For it is written in the law of Moses, Thou shalt not muzzle the mouth of the ox that treadeth out the corn. Doth God take care for oxen? 10 Or saith he it altogether for our sakes? For our sakes, no doubt, this is written: that he that ploweth should plow in hope; and that he that thresheth in hope should be partaker of his hope.

1 Cor. 10: 4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ. 5 But with many of them God was not well pleased: for they were overthrown in the wilderness. 6 Now these things were our examples, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted. 11 Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come. 12 Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.

It's not just the OT Scriptures that modern self-proclaimed "Ministers of righteousness" don't believe, but the NT Scriptures as well. You don't have to promote their religion my friend.

That it was abused by the Pharisees does not negate either the legitimacy nor the authority of the Scriptures of the Jewish religion.

The "Jews Religion", according to Paul, persecuted the Church of God. Was Zealous for the Traditions of their fathers who did the same.

Ex. 20: 12 Moreover also I gave them my sabbaths, to be a sign between me and them, that they might know that I am the LORD that sanctify them. 13 But the house of Israel rebelled against me in the wilderness: they walked not in my statutes, and they despised my judgments, which if a man do, he shall even live in them; and my sabbaths they greatly polluted: then I said, I would pour out my fury upon them in the wilderness, to consume them.

Jesus said Moses gave them God's Law, but they didn't keep it. Stephen said "Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye.

I'm sure you won't answer, but for those reading along, it is written about Zacharias;

Luke 1: 5 There was in the days of Herod, the king of Judaea, a certain priest named Zacharias, of the course of Abia: and his wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elisabeth. 6 And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.

And the Same Spirit Inspired this to be written about the Pharisees.

Mark 7: 7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men. 8 For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do. 9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.

So in your religion, which one of these two examples followed Paul's religion, the Jews religion, before he was converted?

 

[Studyman]

None of which abolished the Mosaic laws given by God nor altered the Jewish Scriptures.

That is true, as Paul said, "For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect? God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged. (OT Scriptures Paul is teaching to both Jew and Gentile of the Body of Christ)

Just because a man doesn't believe or respect the God and Father of the Lord's Christ, or His Words, doesn't make the faith of those who do, of no effect.

You obsession to promote the deception that God was a Jew, or that the Holy Scriptures are "Jewish Scriptures" may be a great marketing strategy for one or more of this world's religious businesses, but it does not reflect any truth from the Scriptures.

Paul teaches the Body of Christ, both Jew and Gentile over a decade after the Christ of the Bible ascended, that the Holy scriptures were Inspired by God, not Jews. and they are profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God (Jew and Gentile) may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

You obviously don't believe these scriptures. But like Paul said, your unbelief, doesn't make the Faith of those who do believe, of none effect.

That the Jews understood righteousness to be by law keeping is everywhere testified to in the NT by Paul.
You are confusing the teaching of the Pharisees with the Jewish religion of the Scriptures.

I am simply pointing out the stark difference between what you and "many" who come in Christ's Name are preaching to others, and what the Scriptures actually say. It's not my fault they are two completely different paths. But to be truthful, both Paul and Jesus did specifically warn about "Christians" deceiving men. I define "Deceive" as promoting lies about the God/Christ of the Bible. WE have uncovered several just on this discussion with you. My hope is that you can consider what the scriptures actually say. But Jesus said most will likely not be persuaded.

"And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

I agree that the Pharisees were zealous for the religion their fathers created, with their manmade religious traditions, Shrines of worship, religious businesses and philosophies and laws that they worked so hard to convert others to. There is no wealth and power in religion, unless there are men to fill the seats of the manmade shrine of worship. It is the same today.

What I have found to be one huge deception, is the assertion that the Pharisees religious traditions and commandments were founded on the OT Scriptures.

As the Words of the Christ, and His Father clearly show, this is simply not true.

The Jewish religion is not of the Pharisees, it is of the Scriptures.

That is your religious philosophy, not Paul's or the Christ of the Bible.

Gal. 1: 13 For ye have heard of my conversation in time past in the Jews' religion, how that beyond measure I persecuted the church of God, and wasted it: 14 And profited in the Jews' religion above many my equals in mine own nation, being more exceedingly zealous of the traditions of my fathers.

I won't post again what the Scriptures teach were the traditions of his stiff-necked and uncircumcised in heart fathers were. It's in your own Bible should you become interested in Biblical Truth, you can read it for yourself. The OT scriptures and Stephen, before they murdered him, tells men the truth about "the Jews religion", for those who believe.

That tradition over many years altered the practice of the law, does not negate the Jewish religion of the Scriptures.

It didn't alter the practice of the law for Zacharias, Simeon, Anna, the Wise Men. Men have always despised God and rebelled against His instruction in righteousness. (See the Bible) But not those who believed in God. Even Eve was convinced to reject, dishonor and disrespect God by a voice who also quoted "some" of God's Word.

The deception you are promoting, that has hardened your heart, is that God promoted "Jewish Scriptures". There are volumes of Scriptures which expose this as false, here is just one.

Rom. 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. 17 For therein (within the Gospel of Christ) is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith. 18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; 19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

I can't stop you from promoting the falsehood that the Holy Scriptures are a "Jewish religion". But I can point out what the Scriptures actually say. This is how Jesus exposed the mainstream religion of His Time, and Paul exposed them in the same way.

Titus 1:16 They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.

Note that Paul affirmed the Scriptures as the Jewish religion.

No he didn't. He affirmed the Pharisees walked in a manmade Jewish religion, and that they didn't believe the Oracles of God, AKA, OT Scriptutres.

Rom. 3: 1 What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision? 2 Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God. 3 For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect?

Look, I know how this goes, and have been here with you before. I just want to share the perspective of someone who has escaped from this world's religions, having placed my Faith in the Christ of the Bible, and His instruction, not the religions or religious philosophies of this world God placed me in.

Nevertheless, these Biblical discussions are good for men to have, and who knows who is listening, as God's Word doesn't return void.

 

[Studyman]

You did not answer my question regarding the priesthood.

I received no question from you, and certainly not about the Priesthood, at least I can't find it in our latest exchange. Will you either show me where you asked, or ask again?

You are guilting all Jews with the guilt of the Pharisees.

Perhaps you should actually read a person's post before replying. If you did, you would find my words below.

"But not all Israel rebelled. WE also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses. Abraham, Caleb, Meshak, Daniel, Zacharias, Simeon, Peter, Cornelious, Paul, and many more Faithful members of the Body of Christ."

So will you retract your accusation?

Do you think Mary and Joseph were guilty of the disobedience which you assert?

First, I make no assertion as to the disobedience of the Pharisees. I post what the Jesus of the Bible and His Father asserts in the Holy scriptures Paul told me to continue in. I am not ashamed that I believe them.

Obviously, according to Scriptures, neither Mary or Joseph, nor Zacharias and Elizabeth, nor Simeon or the Wise men, nor Anna, partook of the Pharisees religion. And John the Baptist certainly didn't partake with them in their religion. I would post the Scriptures, but you don't seem to be influenced by them, and didn't address even one Scripture in my reply to you.

It seems a discussion about the Bible should include Scriptures, Yes?

 

[Clare73]

You need to define "Jewish religion". For those who were Jews inwardly, like Zacharias, Simeon, Anna and their Savior the Lord's Christ, and all the Members of God's Church in which Christ is the Head, the OT is what they all relied upon, for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

But as we have already established, the Pharisees didn't believe in the Oracles of God, and had created their own religion, which like all religions of this world, even the religious voice of the serpent in the garden, use "some" of God's word to promote their deception.

You have established only that the Pharisees altered the law of Moses.
You have not established the Pharisees altered the rest of the Jewish religion; i.e., all the OT Scriptures.

Neither Jesus, nor the Prophets before Him, nor His Disciples after Him, engaged in such iniquity. But "many" who come in Christ's Name, do, as Jesus Himself warns.

It is no secret how mainstream Christianity, since it was founded by Constantine, despises the God of the OT.

Your viewpoint is somewhat dated and "inaccurate."
The mainstreams of Christianity with which I am familiar do not despise the God of the OT.

Judging Him and His Gospel in the way you judge Him now. And while Paul spells out why men would promote such a belief.

Your assertion is without demonstration and, therefore, without merit.
You confuse your viewpoint with the Biblical viewpoint.

Rom. 1: 21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. 22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

Which was stated specifically of the Gentiles, who had no special revelation from God, but did have natural revelation in creation (Ps 19:1-4), for which they were accountable, held guilty and their idolatry punished by God's abandoning/turning them over to their sin in judgment.

So when the God and Father of the Lord's Christ says the following;
Jer. 9: 3 Thus saith the LORD, Let not the wise man glory in his wisdom, neither let the mighty man glory in his might, let not the rich man glory in his riches: 24 But let him that glorieth glory in this, that he understandeth and knoweth me, that I am the LORD which exercise lovingkindness, judgment, and righteousness, in the earth: for in these things I delight, saith the LORD.p

Have you paid attention to my toggle signature at the end of each of my posts?

You Judge Him as promoting an "authoritative religion" and deceptively imply that the Pharisees were His true spokesman, not Jesus who God actually sent.

Failure to deal with Mt 23:2-3. . .and pathetic attempt to distract from that failure with false accusation.

This is why I left this world's religions by the Grace of God. They were constantly trying to convince me of falsehoods like this. Just as Jesus said would happen.
LOL, "Jesus upheld their authority"? Are you serious? Jesus upheld "Moses" Authority. The only place to hear Moses, was when HE was read by the Hypocrites on God's Sabbaths. We have "Moses" in our own homes now, as prophesied and no longer need to listen to the Hypocrites.
Jer. 31:34 "And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD:"
"Jesus upheld their (Pharisees) authority?". Wow.
Matt. 23: 4 For they (Pharisees, not God) bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers.
"Jesus upheld their (Pharisees) authority?"
13 But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.
"Jesus upheld their (Pharisees) authority?"
15 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.
"Jesus upheld their (Pharisees) authority?"
23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone. 24 Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel.
"Jesus upheld their (Pharisees) authority?"
25 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess. 26 Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also.

I'm sorry, but the preaching that Jesus "upheld the Pharisees authority" is really ridiculous. Why would you promote such a thing?

Setting Scripture against itself in failing to deal with Mt 23:2-3.

What is Judaism in your religion.

Judaism is the OT Scriptures.

Was Jesus a Judaizer,

You confuse Judaism with Judaizer. . .no wonder you are so off.

Jesus was born, lived, preached and died under the Old Covenant.
He preached the Old Covenant Mosaic law. . .for the same reason God gave it to the Jews. . .to demonstrate that righteousness could not be had by law keeping (Gal 3:10), that they needed a Savior from their inability to obey God.

who humbled Himself in obedience to God's Law unto death? Or the Pharisees, who Jesus said were the children of the devil?
Was Zacharias, Simeon, Anna and the Wise men "Judaizers" in your religion? Or the Pharisees, "Who have received the law by the disposition of angels, and have not kept it."
And why was Jesus slain from the foundation of the world,

Jesus was slain from the foundation of the world, because God decreed all from the foundation of the world.

and Adam and Eve given another chance,

Adam and Eve were given the same "other chance" that all mankind is given, faith in the Promised Seed (Ge 3:15, Jesus Christ, Gal 3:16); i.e., the proto-evangel of the OT (the pre-gospel).

If the "Way of the Lord" was based on perfect Law Keeping, and not Mercy?
Of course, you won't answer.

Of course, you don't know the difference between Judaism and Judaizer,
between the mercy of the way of the Lord (faith in Jesus Christ) and mercy,
between the authority of the chair of Moses and abuse of that authority,
between God's authoritative Old Covenant law and NT faith,
between the OT Old Mosaic Covenant and the NT New Covenant,
etc., etc., etc.

Paul, who wasn't even converted until 14 years after Jesus ascended,

That would be closer to five years.

teaches Jews and Gentiles in the Body of the Christ of the Bible, just the opposite of the religious philosophy you are promoting here. Paul said these OT Scriptures were written specifically for the Body of Christ in our time.
1 Cor. 9: 9 For it is written in the law of Moses, Thou shalt not muzzle the mouth of the ox that treadeth out the corn. Doth God take care for oxen? 10 Or saith he it altogether for our sakes? For our sakes, no doubt, this is written: that he that ploweth should plow in hope; and that he that thresheth in hope should be partaker of his hope.
1 Cor. 10: 4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ. 5 But with many of them God was not well pleased: for they were overthrown in the wilderness. 6 Now these things were our examples, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted. 11 Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come. 12 Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.

It's not just the OT Scriptures that modern self-proclaimed "Ministers of righteousness" don't believe, but the NT Scriptures as well. You don't have to promote their religion my friend.The "Jews Religion", according to Paul, persecuted the Church of God. Was Zealous for the Traditions of their fathers who did the same.

Nor do you have to lump all Jews in with the Pharisees.
That's failure to distinguish between the Pharisees and the Jewish people.

Ex. 20: 12 Moreover also I gave them my sabbaths, to be a sign between me and them, that they might know that I am the LORD that sanctify them. 13 But the house of Israel rebelled against me in the wilderness: they walked not in my statutes, and they despised my judgments, which if a man do, he shall even live in them; and my sabbaths they greatly polluted: then I said, I would pour out my fury upon them in the wilderness, to consume them.Jesus said Moses gave them God's Law, but they didn't keep it. Stephen said "Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye.I'm sure you won't answer, but for those reading along, it is written about Zacharias;Luke 1: 5 There was in the days of Herod, the king of Judaea, a certain priest named Zacharias, of the course of Abia: and his wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elisabeth. 6 And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.And the Same Spirit Inspired this to be written about the Pharisees.Mark 7: 7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men. 8 For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do. 9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.

So in your religion, which one of these two examples followed Paul's religion, the Jews religion, before he was converted?

Paul was the author of no religion.

 

[Clare73]

That is true, as Paul said, "For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect? God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged. (OT Scriptures Paul is teaching to both Jew and Gentile of the Body of Christ)
Just because a man doesn't believe or respect the God and Father of the Lord's Christ, or His Words, doesn't make the faith of those who do, of no effect.
You obsession to promote the deception that God was a Jew, or that the Holy Scriptures are "Jewish Scriptures" may be a great marketing strategy for one or more of this world's religious businesses, but it does not reflect any truth from the Scriptures.Paul teaches the Body of Christ, both Jew and Gentile over a decade after the Christ of the Bible ascended, that the Holy scriptures were Inspired by God, not Jews. and they are profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God (Jew and Gentile) may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
You obviously don't believe these scriptures. But like Paul said, your unbelief, doesn't make the Faith of those who do believe, of none effect.I am simply pointing out the stark difference between what you and "many" who come in Christ's Name are preaching to others, and what the Scriptures actually say. It's not my fault they are two completely different paths. But to be truthful, both Paul and Jesus did specifically warn about "Christians" deceiving men. I define "Deceive" as promoting lies about the God/Christ of the Bible. WE have uncovered several just on this discussion with you. My hope is that you can consider what the scriptures actually say. But Jesus said most will likely not be persuaded.

All sounds confused to me

"And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.
I agree that the Pharisees were zealous for the religion their fathers created, with their manmade religious traditions, Shrines of worship, religious businesses and philosophies and laws that they worked so hard to convert others to. There is no wealth and power in religion, unless there are men to fill the seats of the manmade shrine of worship. It is the same today.
What I have found to be one huge deception, is the assertion that the Pharisees religious traditions and commandments were founded on the OT Scriptures.
As the Words of the Christ, and His Father clearly show, this is simply not true.

That is your religious philosophy, not Paul's or the Christ of the Bible.

My "philosophy" distinguishes between the Pharisees and the common Jewish people,
which your assertions fail to do.

Gal. 1: 13 For ye have heard of my conversation in time past in the Jews' religion, how that beyond measure I persecuted the church of God, and wasted it: 14 And profited in the Jews' religion above many my equals in mine own nation, being more exceedingly zealous of the traditions of my fathers.
I won't post again what the Scriptures teach were the traditions of his stiff-necked and uncircumcised in heart fathers were. It's in your own Bible should you become interested in Biblical Truth, you can read it for yourself. The OT scriptures and Stephen, before they murdered him, tells men the truth about "the Jews religion", for those who believe.
It didn't alter the practice of the law for Zacharias, Simeon, Anna, the Wise Men. Men have always despised God and rebelled against His instruction in righteousness. (See the Bible) But not those who believed in God. Even Eve was convinced to reject, dishonor and disrespect God by a voice who also quoted "some" of God's Word.
The deception you are promoting, that has hardened your heart, is that God promoted "Jewish Scriptures".
There are volumes of Scriptures which expose this as false, here is just one.

Rom. 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. 17 For therein (within the Gospel of Christ) is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith. 18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; 19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

I can't stop you from promoting the falsehood that the Holy Scriptures are a "Jewish religion". But I can point out what the Scriptures actually say. This is how Jesus exposed the mainstream religion of His Time, and Paul exposed them in the same way.

Titus 1:16 They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.

No he didn't. He affirmed the Pharisees walked in a manmade Jewish religion, and that they didn't believe the Oracles of God, AKA, OT Scriptutres.

Rom. 3: 1 What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision? 2 Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God. 3 For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect?

Look, I know how this goes, and have been here with you before. I just want to share the perspective of someone who has escaped from this world's religions, having placed my Faith in the Christ of the Bible, and His instruction, not the religions or religious philosophies of this world God placed me in.

Nevertheless, these Biblical discussions are good for men to have, and who knows who is listening, as God's Word doesn't return void.

I maintain this bears no resemblance to Biblical discussion.