Futurists vs Preterists

soulsisterclaire · Apr 22, 2002

Catchup -

I am "standing firm" with you to the end, and the great coming of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

Come Lord Jesus, Come...

Catchup · Apr 22, 2002

GW:

Hi

I ran over to the Catholic forum to get their info on whether Christ's return trip in the future was cancelled by the Church. I do not think they will be happy about a full preterist using them to add credibility to false teaching.

You are really getting desperate. What is with all this end time hysteria stuff? You know your ideas are not valid. So now are you trying to show us how your plan is better for us then God's?

Why have you not posted on "Mark Of the Beast"?

LOVE

davo · Apr 22, 2002

Originally posted by Debbie
I said "NOT ALL" PRETERISTS BELIEVE IN THE "CHOSEN" CONCEPT= different Jesus, so if that doesnt apply to you, ignore it. It applies to many preterists.
I got the view of housechurches for preterists from a previous post in this thread from a preterist.
THe rest of my post is the belief of all full preterists, which you did not deny.

No sorry Debbie, you did NOT say "NOT ALL" you said: "Also, MOST preterists, but not all, believe that they are "chosen"& futurists are not..."

And as for denying -I deny all your baseless, groundless and basically stupid allegations -it was a dumb thing to say. How about putting up the post you say you're referring to -and lets all see if it's saying ANYTHING like what you're proclaiming.

Put up or ..... Or are you back-peddling.

davo

Catchup · Apr 22, 2002

GW:

Hi again... Just returned from a visit to the Catholic Forum.

Look what I brought back with me....

We believe in the Nicene Creed, which is recited at every Mass, as our Profession of Faith:

We believe in One God,
The Father, Almighty.
Maker of Heaven and Earth,
Of all that is Seen and Unseen.
We believe in One Lord, Jesus Christ,
The Only Son of God,
Eternally Begotten of the Father,
God from God, Light from Light, True God from True God,
Begotten, not Made
Through Him all things were made.
For us men, and for our Salvation, He came down from Heaven.
By the power of the Holy Spirit, He was born of the Virgin Mary,
And became Man.
He was Crucified under Pontius Pilate.
He Suffered, Died, and was Buried.
On the Third Day, He Rose again,
In fulfillment of the Scriptures.
He Ascended into Heaven,
And is Seated at the Right Hand of the Father.
He will come again in Glory, to Judge the Living and the Dead, And His Kingdom shall have No End.
We Believe in the Holy Spirit,
The Lord, the Giver of Life,
Who proceeds from the Father and the Son.
With the Father and the Son,
He is Worshipped and Glorified.
He has spoken through the Prophets.
We believe in one Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church,
We acknowledge One Baptism for the Forgiveness of Sins,
We look for the Resurrection of the Dead,
And the Life of the World to Come.

Amen.

Peace be with you,
~VOW

The Catholic Church is going through a rough time right now. I keep them in my prayers.

It is not right for you... in any way, shape, or form, to tie your false teaching into their Church!

LOVE

GW · Apr 22, 2002

Catchup,

Please, get informed. You make so many emotional and inaccurate statements that it misleads others. Christ is about the truth, so let's work hard never to misrepresent each other. Okay?

I never said the Catholic Church was fully preterist.

I have stated that the Catholic Church has always believed the following:

(1) No Literal 1000 years reign (Amillennial)

(2) Great Tribulation is past (AD 66-70)

(3) The Church is true Israel (non-dispensational).

(4) MOST (if not all) of Matthew 24 is fulfilled

(5) MOST of Revelation is fulfilled

This makes them accurately categorized as PARTIAL PRETERISTS.

With you in the victory of Jesus Christ,
GW

Catchup · Apr 22, 2002

AMEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

LOVE

Catchup · Apr 22, 2002

Get over yourself GW.

Why do you twist and turn?

You know full well this debate is over Christ's return!

You are a strawman!

LOVE

GW · Apr 22, 2002

Originally posted by Catchup
How can such pleasant words, of completion of the promises of Jesus, possibly be wrong? The story they tell is one of triumph and joy. I need the Spirit to use me this morning ... for I myself do not understand. ...They tell of a world where Christ reigns with no interference from Satan. They speak to you of this time as when all things have been renewed. They warm your heart by taking away fear of the unknown. They tell you that you will not have to live through a time of trial. The Earth will never be ravished by nuclear war. Their words are sweet as honey to your troubled minds.
...The Antichrist is killed already. The mark is not to be. Christ has returned. Satan is gone. The Antichrist is history. How then can a mark be anything at all?

And not only this, but you can plan now for your children and your children's children who are kids of the Covenant. The Lord's people have always had a glorious history and the next few hundred years belong to our children and our children's children. For the Lord of the Covenant has made promises to them:

2 Corinthians 1:20
For as many as are the promises of God, in Him they are yes; therefore also through Him is our Amen to the glory of God through us

Romans 15:8
Christ has become a servant to...confirm the promises given to the fathers

2 Peter 1:4
For by these He has granted to us His precious and magnificent promises, so that by them you may become partakers of the divine nature, HAVING ESCAPED the corruption that is in the world by lust.

Acts 2:39
"For the promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off, as many as the Lord our God will call to Himself

GW · Apr 22, 2002

Originally posted by Catchup
How can such pleasant words, of completion of the promises of Jesus, possibly be wrong? The story they tell is one of triumph and joy. I need the Spirit to use me this morning ... for I myself do not understand. ...They tell of a world where Christ reigns with no interference from Satan. They speak to you of this time as when all things have been renewed. They warm your heart by taking away fear of the unknown. They tell you that you will not have to live through a time of trial. The Earth will never be ravished by nuclear war. Their words are sweet as honey to your troubled minds.
...The Antichrist is killed already. The mark is not to be. Christ has returned. Satan is gone. The Antichrist is history. How then can a mark be anything at all?

And not only this, but you can plan now for your children and your children's children who are kids of God's Covenant. The Lord's people have always had a glorious history and the next few hundred years belong to our children and our children's children. For the Lord of the Covenant has made promises to them that he will keep:

2 Corinthians 1:20
For as many as are the promises of God, in Him they are yes; therefore also through Him is our Amen to the glory of God through us

Romans 15:8
Christ has become a servant to...confirm the promises given to the fathers

2 Peter 1:4
For by these He has granted to us His precious and magnificent promises, so that by them you may become partakers of the divine nature, HAVING ESCAPED the corruption that is in the world by lust.

Acts 2:39
"For the promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off, as many as the Lord our God will call to Himself

Phoenix · Apr 22, 2002

We are to live each day to its fullest!

Absolutley Catchup ! But do we keep an eye on the future as well ? Do you have kids ?

Hey GW..just turned 5 huh ? That's a great age isn't it ?
I know i have a ways to go with my 12 year old daughter, let me tell ya something brother they grow up in a hurry !!!

Mandy · Apr 22, 2002

Ok people, I think it is time to cool down.
I am closing this thread until further notice.

Didaskomenos · Apr 22, 2002

On recently closed threads, preterism has been characterized as and literally called a "deception." This is no more than it is in the issue over capital punishment or pre-/post-trib, etc. There is nothing malicious in the views of the preterists I have been reading. They still love Jesus and want to see his work carried on in this world, want to see souls saved, and they highly value Scripture (and just because you don't agree with their interpretation doesn't make them Satan's henchmen).

I wish they didn't have the name "preterist" - when you put a tag on someone, they become a part of another "cult". Preterism is not a denomination, nor a radically deviant approach on what Christianity really is (you know, like "Fundamentalism"). It is a view of the endtimes, based on the Bible, just like your view of the endtimes. "Preterism" says nothing of how someone is supposed to create and cultivate a relationship with Christ. So criticize the view, not the people.

Catchup · Apr 22, 2002

GW..Phoneix..

Enjoy...Plan...Love...Live!!!

Take time each day for prayer.

All things work together for good to those that believe!

Knowing that God is Love... and that you can trust him... is all that is needed to take away any trace of fear of the unknown.

LOVE

NumberOneSon · Apr 22, 2002

Thank you, Did, for your post. Actually, sometimes I try to dispense with the lables too, saying "Christians who believe in preterism", or "Christians that believe in futurism" at times. We're not lables - we're Christians!

Yes, my X-Files friend, the truth is out there (hopefully the series will wrap up soon!)

In Christ,

Acts6:5

Shane Roach · Apr 22, 2002

Well, I find the continual onslaught of preterism into every endtime thread rather disconcerting, and also continually the argument is "oh you just don't understand". The reason people say "preterists just spiritualize" or, more accurately, I think, "Preterists just assume symbolism" in places where the scripture doesn't fit their doctrine is because that is the fundamental difference between the two views. There are certain verses tha, read entirely literally, will be somewhat contradictory. So, it is fully understandable, and quite fair, for both sides to accuse the other of taking this or that as symbolic when it should be literal, or literal when it should be symbolic.

I think the thrust of most futurists is that so much has to be understood as symbolic to take the preterist view seriously, whereas only a small amount has to be taken as symbolic or somehow rectified to believe Christ has not come yet. It is fairly obvious, on its face, why it is that people find it difficult that all fo the Revelation has already happened, give what it says.

So, if someone wants to put aside preterism because they think they just take too much time trying to explain things away so as not to have to deal with too much literal expectation, that is a fair interpretation of the facts. Does it mean preterists are all antichrist's? Nyaa, I think not. But people are allowed to believe that other people are wrong. Along with that, people usually have a reason why they think that.

Despite the numnerous preterists posting here, I have yet to have some very basic questions I asked to be answered adressed. These same preterists then said they didn't have time, and my thread I was reading died, only to find out all the same preterists were busily posting on related threads. This tendency of not being able to give a good, direct answer to honest questions coupled with the near bottomlessness of the preterist view has made me lose interest in it.

NumberOneSon · Apr 22, 2002

Hi Shane,

Thanks for your post. I'm glad that you see that both futurism and preterism have problems concerning certain passages. I don't deny that preterism has difficulties (that's why I'm inbetween partial and full preterism), but futurism also has it's own share. Actually a great deal of preterism does not have to be reduced to symbols. That's one thing I learned.

If you have some basic questions I'm sorry they have been overlooked. I don't think it was done purposefully. What questions do you have. I had a ton, myself.

In Christ,

Act6:5

Phoenix · Apr 22, 2002

Originally posted by Catchup
GW..Phoneix..

Enjoy...Plan...Love...Live!!!

Take time each day for prayer.

All things work together for good to those that believe!

Knowing that God is Love... and that you can trust him... is all that is needed to take away any trace of fear of the unknown.

LOVE

Very well said Catchup

NumberOneSon · Apr 22, 2002

Hi Catchup,

Get over yourself GW. Why do you twist and turn?

GW was not. Preterism eschatology encompasses both full and partial preterism. He wasn't twisting anything. You simply assumed he meant full and not partial. The Catholic church does teach preterist eshatology: that most eschatology was fulfilled in 70AD began the Messianic Millenial kingdom. You are making accusations based on limited understanding.

In Christ,

Acts6:5

GW · Apr 22, 2002

Originally posted by Phoenix
But do we keep an eye on the future as well ? Do you have kids ?

Hey GW..just turned 5 huh ? That's a great age isn't it ?
I know i have a ways to go with my 12 year old daughter, let me tell ya something brother they grow up in a hurry !!!

Five is a great age. She's a real treasure with a great future. She's a child of the Covenant.

12 must be a handful. They do grow up quickly. She went from a baby to a little girl in no time.

They have such an important future to plan and build for. Our labor is not in vain in the Lord and our kids need to become prepared to be tomorrow's leaders.

I'll say a prayer for your daughter's future career, spouse, and mission.

God bless.
GW

JohnR7 · Apr 22, 2002

>> nor do you even try to understand the heremeutical principles that we use to understand end-time scripture.

I am taught and lead by the Holy Spirit of God, not "heremeutical principles"

1 John 2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

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