Full Preterism

[Clare73]

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[Lost4words]

Correct me if I'm wrong Lost4words, but is that a Corgi pup in your avatar? Belongs to you? I don't know my breeds all that well, but it's distractingly cute.

Its me! A Corgi!

 

[3 Resurrections]

I guess I don't follow your objection after you assert the "In that day" of vs 14:8 was fulfilled by Christ in the Resurrection?
Is the "That Day" of vs 14:8 a different, unique "That Day" from all the other mentions of "in That Day" found in Zech 12-14?

That probably WAS a little fuzzy...Let's see if I can clarify. The Spirit which Christ breathed into the disciples that evening just after His resurrection inaugurated a new ramped-up style of the Spirit's work among mankind. Until then, the Spirit had been abiding "with" the disciples, but Christ promised them a change when the Spirit "shall be *IN* YOU" (John 14:17), and that forevermore. This produced the "spring of living water" spoken of long before in Zechariah 14:8. That Spring of the Spirit flowing from the believers did not BEGIN with the "in that day" list of detailed events happening in the AD 70 era, but it WAS an ongoing part of what would be openly revealed as a continuing reality that remained after the Old Jerusalem was destroyed. Living water of the Spirit's work would continue to go indiscriminately and inclusively in both directions; towards Gentile lands (represented by the Mediterranean Sea) and towards the Jews as well (represented by the Dead Sea direction).

It's rather like the New Covenant. We know that Christ on resurrection day became the minister of the New Covenant at that point. Set up that very day with Christ anointed as our high priest, and with a change in the law (Hebrews 7:12). But it was the shaking process of the AD 70 era, when all the dead, decaying Old Covenant elements were burned up, that openly revealed the unshaken New Covenant finally standing alone by itself without a rival to offer a paltry competition. The New Covenant did not BEGIN with the destruction of the Old Covenant trappings (it was already set up back on resurrection day in AD 33). Neither did the Spirit of "living water" BEGIN flowing "IN THAT DAY" of Jerusalem's destruction (since it had already begun to flow on resurrection day in AD 33 also).

Did that only muddy the water further? Hope not.

 

[parousia70]

What believers long for is to eventually be "face to face" with our glorified Redeemer. Job knew this (Job 19:26-27).

Just want to comment on this one point:

Job's Vindicator (Redeemer) he DID see from his flesh. This was Fulfilled.
Job's skin was destroyed by his boils from satan that covered his body from head to toe (Job 2:7) and at the end Job's Vindicator did "rise upon the dust" and Job saw Him as he hoped and promised would happen (Job 38:1 and Job 42:5). His vindicator (Go-el) came and vindicated Job's cause (Job 42:7-10).

 

[3 Resurrections]

But parousia70, there is a particular time relevant marker to the fulfillment of this text in Job. That sight of his Redeemer was an expectation that Job anticipated would take place after the "latter day" when Christ would stand upon the earth (the latter day when Christ would stand on the Mount of Olives as prophesied in Zechariah 14:4-5 for the second resurrection in AD 70, that is). This view of his Redeemer was not timed to happen when Job was healed from his present physical maladies while still alive.

This expectation Job expressed was not the only mention of what Job knew would happen to his own physical body after his eventual death. The passage of Job 14:10-15 described Job's hope for his physical body after death.

"But man dieth, and wasteth away: yea, man giveth up the ghost, and where is he?"
"As the waters fail from the sea, and the flood decayeth and drieth up:"
"So man lieth down, and riseth not TILL the heavens be no more," (the new heavens and new earth establishment in AD 70) "they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep."
"O that thou wouldest hide me in the grave, that thou wouldest keep me secret, until thy wrath be past, that thou wouldest appoint me a set time, and remember me!"
"If a man die, shall he live again? all the days of my appointed time will I wait, TILL MY CHANGE COME." (the "...we shall be CHANGED" condition promised for the bodies of all the dead believers in I Cor. 15:51).
"Thou shall CALL", (the "voice of the archangel" summoning the bodies of the dead saints to life) "and I will answer thee: thou wilt have a desire to the work of thine hands."

Body, soul, and spirit - the saints are all considered "the work of His hands". The physical dead bodies of the saints in the grave are compared to the "precious fruit of the earth" in James 5:7. "Precious in the sight of the Lord is the death of His saints". "Precious shall their blood be in His sight." Christ OWNS the physical bodies of the saints, because He spent His own life-blood to purchase those physical bodies. Our bodies are not our own; "we are bought with a price". God does not throw any one of His purchased possessions in the garbage. He is in the renovation and glorification business where we are concerned.

 

[parousia70]

But parousia70, there is a particular time relevant marker to the fulfillment of this text in Job. That sight of his Redeemer was an expectation that Job anticipated would take place after the "latter day" when Christ would stand upon the earth (the latter day when Christ would stand on the Mount of Olives as prophesied in Zechariah 14:4-5 for the second resurrection in AD 70, that is). This view of his Redeemer was not timed to happen when Job was healed from his present physical maladies while still alive.

I disagree.

Job's hope against all evidence was for a day within his lifetime when God would vindicate and deliver him (Job 10:9; 17:9; 23:10; 19:25-27). Although he could not know for certain what would happen until God shows up, he believed by faith that even once the burning boils had struck off his skin he would see his vindicator with his eyes and be vindicated. This, of course, is exactly what happened (Job 38:1 and Job 42:5-10) and therefore Job 19:25-27 is one of the greatest statements of faith in all of scripture.

The "Go'el" is not one who redeems one from their sins, but is one who vindicates one's case. Job knew that his case was correct and that his friends were wrong. He knew that he would be vindicated, and in the end God arises upon the dust and does exactly that.

Again, Job's skin was destroyed by his burning boils from satan that covered his body from head to toe (Job 2:7; 30:30) and at the end Job's Vindicator did "rise upon the dust" and Job saw Him as he believed by faith would happen (Job 38:1 and Job 42:5). His vindicator (Go-el) came and vindicated Job's cause (Job 42:7-10).

You'd be hard pressed to find a scholarly commentary to interpret Job 19:25-27 in any other way. Job was clearly referring to his plight and how he was full of faith that God would not abandon him to die but would show up at the end and vindicate him. It all happened exactly like Job said.

 

[3 Resurrections]

Even if we can't agree on the Job 19 passage, how do you address the Job 14 text that I brought up? This is most definitely Job's expectations of his body being CHANGED after a set time of remaining in the grave, at a time when God would "call" Job to life again.

 

[trophy33]

Even if we can't agree on the Job 19 passage, how do you address the Job 14 text that I brought up? This is most definitely Job's expectations of his body being CHANGED after a set time of remaining in the grave, at a time when God would "call" Job to life again.

Job does not mention any body.

14 ‘Can a man live again after he dies,
Once the days of his life have all past?
As for me; I’ll wait ‘til I live again,
15 When You’ll call out to me and I’ll hear You…
Please don’t undo the work of Your hands!

 

[3 Resurrections]

Job does not mention any body.

14 ‘Can a man live again after he dies,
Once the days of his life have all past?
As for me; I’ll wait ‘til I live again,
15 When You’ll call out to me and I’ll hear You…
Please don’t undo the work of Your hands!

Job 14 doesn't need to use the word "body" for us to understand that this context is speaking of a bodily resurrection. I like the LXX version of this for Job 14:12-15.

"And man that has lain down in death shall certainly not rise again till the heaven be dissolved, and they shall not wake from their sleep. For oh that thou hadst kept me in the grave, and hadst hidden me until thy wrath should cease, and thou shouldest set me a time in which thou wouldest remember me! For if a man should die, shall he live again, having accomplished the days of his life? I will wait till I exist again." (Or, "till I am made again" - palin genomai) "Then shalt thou call, and I will hearken to thee: but do not thou reject the work of thine hands."

If Job was discussing a man's lifespan, and his lying down in death in the grave, what else is this but the physical death of the body? This context tells us that a "rising again" of the human body for the saints would take place when the heavens were dissolved. Both you and I agree, I believe, that this "dissolving" of the heavens and the earth took place by the close of the AD 70 period. That means a bodily resurrection event took place back then, when the bodies of the saints were "made again".

This "calling" of God to "the work of His hands" is the same as Christ commanding Lazarus to come forth from the grave. The dead Lazarus "hearkened" to this command and rose from the grave, just as those dead saints in AD 70 also heard God's call to them. And just as we also will hear God's call for us to arise from the grave in the future bodily resurrection. "We are all the work of thy hands", the prophet Isaiah once said of the Lord's people (Is. 64:8). God will not reject the work of His hands - our body, soul, and spirit - since Christ's blood paid for the redemption of all three of these.

This "calling" of God to the bodies of His dead saints in AD 70 is also found in John 5:28-29. "...for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice and shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation." The bodies of the wicked dead, unlike that of the saints, are destroyed by this, since they do not share a part of Christ's immortality as the saints do.

 

[trophy33]

Job 14 doesn't need to use the word "body" for us to understand that this context is speaking of a bodily resurrection. I like the LXX version of this for Job 14:12-15.

"And man that has lain down in death shall certainly not rise again till the heaven be dissolved, and they shall not wake from their sleep. For oh that thou hadst kept me in the grave, and hadst hidden me until thy wrath should cease, and thou shouldest set me a time in which thou wouldest remember me! For if a man should die, shall he live again, having accomplished the days of his life? I will wait till I exist again." (Or, "till I am made again" - palin genomai) "Then shalt thou call, and I will hearken to thee: but do not thou reject the work of thine hands."

If Job was discussing a man's lifespan, and his lying down in death in the grave, what else is this but the physical death of the body? This context tells us that a "rising again" of the human body for the saints would take place when the heavens were dissolved. Both you and I agree, I believe, that this "dissolving" of the heavens and the earth took place by the close of the AD 70 period. That means a bodily resurrection event took place back then, when the bodies of the saints were "made again".

This "calling" of God to "the work of His hands" is the same as Christ commanding Lazarus to come forth from the grave. The dead Lazarus "hearkened" to this command and rose from the grave, just as those dead saints in AD 70 also heard God's call to them. And just as we also will hear God's call for us to arise from the grave in the future bodily resurrection. "We are all the work of thy hands", the prophet Isaiah once said of the Lord's people (Is. 64:8). God will not reject the work of His hands - our body, soul, and spirit - since Christ's blood paid for the redemption of all three of these.

This "calling" of God to the bodies of His dead saints in AD 70 is also found in John 5:28-29. "...for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice and shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation." The bodies of the wicked dead, unlike that of the saints, are destroyed by this, since they do not share a part of Christ's immortality as the saints do.

It seems to me that you suppose that "coming out of grave" or "living again" means "in physical body". But I do not see it in the text.

The Old Testament people were sleeping in sheol/grave till Christ. So to "live again" or to "get out of sheol/grave" can simply mean to be awaken and changed to meet Christ in the sky as Paul said.

Paul also described at length that those bodies were not supposed to by physical:

So will it be with the resurrection of the dead. The body that is sown is perishable, it is raised imperishable; it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power; it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body.
1 Cor 15:44

 

[3 Resurrections]

So will it be with the resurrection of the dead. The body that is sown is perishable, it is raised imperishable; it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power; it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body.
1 Cor 15:44

But "IT" is STILL CALLED A BODY - a "spiritual body" - not just a spirit. It bewilders me why people battle so hard to try to get rid of something that Jesus paid His blood to purchase. If Jesus paid the ultimate price of His life's blood for all three aspects of the body, soul, and spirit of His children, why on earth do you want to steal part of what He bought and deny that this is part of the resurrection process? He owns all three parts that make us individual saints. It makes no sense to try to cheat Christ out of a portion of what He owns.

I have spoken with many Full Preterists who believe (and rightly so) that the planet will never be destroyed. "The earth abideth forever", as we are told in scripture. So the dust of the planet is going to be preserved forever. Now, if mankind was made of that same dust of the earth in creation, why would God have more regard for the dirt under our feet than our own bodies which were originally formed from that same dirt?

Jesus encountered this same twisted thinking when He scolded the Pharisees for having more regard for the gold of the Temple than the Temple itself. "Fools and blind! for which is greater, the gold, or the sanctuary that is sanctifying the gold?" (Matt. 23:17 YLT).

I would demand the same type of question from you, myst33: For which is greater, the actual dust of the planet, or the "sanctuary" of the human body of a saint that is sanctifying that dust of the planet by becoming the temple of the Holy Spirit in this life? Arguing from the lesser to the greater, since God is going to preserve the dust of this planet forever, then He will most certainly see to it that the dust composing the human bodies of the saints is rendered incorruptible and immortal in their bodily resurrection.

 

[trophy33]

But "IT" is STILL CALLED A BODY - a "spiritual body" - not just a spirit.

I am bewildered by your choice of words... spiritual body is not just a spirit? What do you mean by that?

It bewilders me why people battle so hard to try to get rid of something that Jesus paid His blood to purchase.

We are not talking about the forgiveness of sins and the defeat of death.

If Jesus paid the ultimate price of His life's blood for all three aspects of the body, soul, and spirit of His children, why on earth do you want to steal part of what He bought and deny that this is part of the resurrection process?

Very big "if".

I have spoken with many Full Preterists who believe (and rightly so) that the planet will never be destroyed. "The earth abideth forever", as we are told in scripture. So the dust of the planet is going to be preserved forever. Now, if mankind was made of that same dust of the earth in creation, why would God have more regard for the dirt under our feet than our own bodies which were originally formed from that same dirt?

I do not follow your reasoning. I have no idea how a song and a figure of speech from Genesis connects to planet or our bodies, technically. We should keep everything in its context and genre.

I would demand the same type of question from you, myst33: For which is greater, the actual dust of the planet, or the "sanctuary" of the human body of a saint that is sanctifying that dust of the planet by becoming the temple of the Holy Spirit in this life?

I do not see any sense in this question, sorry. Perhaps try to rephrase? Or what is this question related to, which topic? Are you asking me whether our physical bodies are more important than our planet?

 

[3 Resurrections]

Very big "if".

This purchase of the body, soul, and spirit of a believer by the shed blood of Christ is not in question.

"What? Know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? For ye are bought with a price. Therefore, glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's." (1 Cor. 6:19-20). Neither the spirit nor the physical body of the saints belong to themselves, but to God who purchased both body and spirit. They are His property, even after natural physical death. And God does not discard in the trash forever something that has had such a costly price paid for it. If He did, there would be no difference in how the bodies of the saints and the wicked are treated. The one has "eternal life". The other is destroyed.

"Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:" (1 Peter 1:19).

I am bewildered by your choice of words... spiritual body is not just a spirit? What do you mean by that?

In the resurrection process, God rehabilitates and renovates the natural dead bodies of the saints, turning each of them into a "spiritual body". This "spiritual body" has new capabilities and characteristics that it did not have in its former corruptible condition as a "natural body". But that "spiritual body" is still a tangible thing of substance which can be handled, can consume food if desired, can stand in God's presence face to face, can levitate, can disappear, and can never die again.

For the comparison I gave between the gold of the temple and the dust which composes the human body, I am making an analogy. Jesus mocked the Pharisees for giving more esteem to the actual gold which the Temple was constructed from than the Temple itself, which was the house of God in those days. The Temple's greater value was that which sanctified the gold, not the other way around.

It's the same thing when anyone gives greater value to the dust of the ground than the human bodies of mankind which are made of that same dust. Our physical bodies are called "the Temple of the living God", since the Holy Spirit dwells within these "earthen vessels". Since the human bodies of the saints have been given this great honor, then they have greater value than the dust of the earth which composes those bodies.

For Full Preterists to say that the dead bodies of the saints are to be discarded totally, never to rise again, this is to esteem the dust of the planet which abides forever as having more value than the bodies of the saints who have died. This is the same kind of inverted thinking that the Pharisees were guilty of.

 

[trophy33]

This purchase of the body, soul, and spirit of a believer by the shed blood of Christ is not in question.

"What? Know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? For ye are bought with a price. Therefore, glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's." (1 Cor. 6:19-20).

Yes, while we are in our physical bodies, they are the temple of the Holy Spirit and we should care about our body and do not commit adultery. This is the context of the text you quote. Not eschatology.

"Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:" (1 Peter 1:19).

Yes, we were redeemed by the death of Christ.

But that "spiritual body" is still a tangible thing of substance which can be handled, can consume food if desired, can stand in God's presence face to face, can levitate, can disappear, and can never die again.

Its just your statement, there is no promise or description in the Bible about our spiritual body.

For the comparison I gave between the gold of the temple and the dust which composes the human body, I am making an analogy. Jesus mocked the Pharisees for giving more esteem to the actual gold which the Temple was constructed from than the Temple itself, which was the house of God in those days. The Temple's greater value was that which sanctified the gold, not the other way around.
It's the same thing when anyone gives greater value to the dust of the ground than the human bodies of mankind which are made of that same dust. Our physical bodies are called "the Temple of the living God", since the Holy Spirit dwells within these "earthen vessels". Since the human bodies of the saints have been given this great honor, then they have greater value than the dust of the earth which composes those bodies.

For Full Preterists to say that the dead bodies of the saints are to be discarded totally, never to rise again, this is to esteem the dust of the planet which abides forever as having more value than the bodies of the saints who have died. This is the same kind of inverted thinking that the Pharisees were guilty of.

I see no need for dead rotting physical bodies composed of physical atoms that circulate in other bodies (of worms, animals, plants or even other humans) to be resurrected again. Its a temporary form that is still changing, your body today is totally different from your body as a child and you completely exchanged atoms with other creatures during that. The only thing that stays is your DNA information.

So what do you want to be resurrected? Your DNA code? Or your form/shape? Or all the gut bacterias, viruses and microorganisms, dead cells or even water your body is composed from in this second? Because in the next second your body is different.

Be more specific.

 

[Bob_1000]

But "IT" is STILL CALLED A BODY - a "spiritual body" - not just a spirit. It bewilders me why people battle so hard to try to get rid of something that Jesus paid His blood to purchase. If Jesus paid the ultimate price of His life's blood for all three aspects of the body, soul, and spirit of His children, why on earth do you want to steal part of what He bought and deny that this is part of the resurrection process? He owns all three parts that make us individual saints. It makes no sense to try to cheat Christ out of a portion of what He owns.

I have spoken with many Full Preterists who believe (and rightly so) that the planet will never be destroyed. "The earth abideth forever", as we are told in scripture. So the dust of the planet is going to be preserved forever. Now, if mankind was made of that same dust of the earth in creation, why would God have more regard for the dirt under our feet than our own bodies which were originally formed from that same dirt?

Jesus encountered this same twisted thinking when He scolded the Pharisees for having more regard for the gold of the Temple than the Temple itself. "Fools and blind! for which is greater, the gold, or the sanctuary that is sanctifying the gold?" (Matt. 23:17 YLT).

I would demand the same type of question from you, myst33: For which is greater, the actual dust of the planet, or the "sanctuary" of the human body of a saint that is sanctifying that dust of the planet by becoming the temple of the Holy Spirit in this life? Arguing from the lesser to the greater, since God is going to preserve the dust of this planet forever, then He will most certainly see to it that the dust composing the human bodies of the saints is rendered incorruptible and immortal in their bodily resurrection.

1Co 15:42 (KJV) So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:

That pretty much tells you all you need to know about the resurrection. Something is put into a corrupt sinful body and then later that something is promoted to perfection.... in other words the resurrection has nothing to do with raising dead bodies.

 

[jamiec]

The harlot of the Revelation is in fact Jerusalem. It comes from the old testament:

Jer 2:20 For of old time I have broken thy yoke, and burst thy bands; and thou saidst, I will not transgress; when upon every high hill and under every green tree thou wanderest, playing the harlot.

In the Revelation the harlot is seen riding the beast from the sea. Look at any map of Italy and you will see that it "rises from the sea". Italy is Rome. The harlot is riding the beast, believing that she can control it. See Herod's alliance with Rome. See also the diplomatic ties Israel had with Rome, even to the extent that Jews were exempt from worship of the cult of the Emperor. But eventually the beast turns on the harlot and consumes her. That was Rome's final destruction of Jerusalem and the temple.

As to the evangelical notion of the Roman Church being the harlot, it stems solely from anti-Catholic protestantism. The Pope must be the antichrist and the harlot must be the Roman Church. That idea is poppycock.

There is a mediaeval pre-history of the *Papacy* being the harlot of Rev 17, as a result of the contention between the 13th-century Franciscan Spirituals and the Papacy. I believe accusations of being the/an A/antichrist were flung around with some abandon.

But the hayday of the equation of the Papacy - & by extension, the Church in union with it - with the big AC, came later, with the Reformation. A problem with that, is that it makes the "daughters" of the Papal "Babylon the Great, the mother of the harlots and abominations of the Earth/Land", very easy to identify with the Reformation Churches.

But such ideas do not really make sense if the book was intended for 1st-century hearers.

 

[3 Resurrections]

Its just your statement, there is no promise or description in the Bible about our spiritual body.

Actually, yes, there is. Philippians 3:21 for example. "Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto His glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself."

We are called "joint-heirs" with Christ. Whatever He inherited, we also inherit the same thing - including the same kind of bodily resurrection.

And Christ is called the "FIRST-born" and the "First-fruits of them that slept". Every one of His siblings down to the last-born child of the family of God will resemble their older brother's resurrected body, from the "First-fruits" down to the last-fruits. The many Matthew 27:52-53 bodily-resurrected saints who were "seen of many" in Jerusalem during Passover - these remained on earth to serve the early church. They were a living, visual example to all the believers of just what the bodily-resurrected state will be for every one of God's children.

I see no need for dead rotting physical bodies composed of physical atoms that circulate in other bodies (of worms, animals, plants or even other humans) to be resurrected again. Its a temporary form that is still changing, your body today is totally different from your body as a child and you completely exchanged atoms with other creatures during that. The only thing that stays is your DNA information.

Somehow all of that was not a difficulty for the bodily-resurrecting Christ. The tomb was empty when the disciples examined it after Christ's bodily resurrection. There was no huge mound of leftover baby teeth, skin cells, hair, circumcision, and nail clippings that Christ had shed during His incarnation. God is perfectly capable of doing the necessary subtraction - or multiplication - to have a complete, living, incorruptible form of a person raised to life again. That also applies for every aged, cremated martyr whose dust has been thrown into the wind, all the way down to a single-celled aborted fetus that belongs to God as His child. The DNA is unique for every single one of the sons of mankind. Do you really think that God can't sort out what atoms or cells belong to whom?

"You do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God".
"The Lord knoweth them that are His."
"Not an hair of your head shall perish"
"Known unto God are all His works", and "We are all the work of Thy hands.", and "Thou shalt have a desire to the work of thy hands", as Job spoke of the bodily resurrection he was anticipating.

 

[trophy33]

Actually, yes, there is. Philippians 3:21 for example. "Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto His glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself."

This does not seem to be about resurrection but about transforming bodies of the living during His coming.

Somehow all of that was not a difficulty for the bodily-resurrecting Christ. The tomb was empty when the disciples examined it after Christ's bodily resurrection.

Christ is special, His bodily resurrection was needed for our salvation. What is our bodily resurrection needed for, according to you?

 

[3 Resurrections]

This does not seem to be about resurrection but about transforming bodies of the living during His coming.

The bodies of the living were never promised a "translation" type of change at Christ's coming, so that they don't have to pass through physical death, if that is what you are implying. All must physically die the ONE TIME, according to Hebrews 9:27. And this anticipated "change" of the saints' vile bodies in Philippians 3:21 is the very same future "change" which Job anticipated for his own physically dead body, once he had been laid in the grave back in Job 14:14.

Christ is special, His bodily resurrection was needed for our salvation. What is our bodily resurrection needed for, according to you?

It is needed for that face-to-face fellowship with our Creator in heaven when we are presented faultless before the presence of His glory. In AD 70, this "marriage of the Lamb" took place. In a real marriage, physical union is considered the uniting of two people into one. No one is content to wave goodbye to their bride at the altar, and just text back and forth for fellowship. Neither is our union perfected with our Creator until we are standing face-to-face, seeing the glory of God in all its fullness. This is what Moses instinctively longed for. "Show me thy glory" he begged. As Job once said, he would behold his redeemer with his own eyes, and not another's, even though worms destroyed his body in the grave in the meantime.

Christ knew there would be skeptics like yourself, that would presume Christ's resurrected body was only a single, unique specimen of this kind of phenomenon. That is why He provided for you the example of 144,000 bodily-resurrected Matthew 27:52-53 saints which shared in a bodily resurrection that same day with Christ as the "First-fruits". There is no sweeping this group of 144,000 bodily-resurrected saints under the rug. They were there for the early church to see and touch, and experienced the same type of resurrection as Christ's, which we can also expect for ourselves.

 

[trophy33]

The bodies of the living were never promised a "translation" type of change at Christ's coming, so that they don't have to pass through physical death, if that is what you are implying.

Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed— in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed.
1 Cor 15:51

It is needed for that face-to-face fellowship with our Creator in heaven when we are presented faultless before the presence of His glory.

God is spirit, so there is no need for our physical bodies to be somehow composed and resurrected.
We are going to God immediatelly after we die, without our body:

We are confident, I say, and would prefer to be away from the body and at home with the Lord.
2 Cor 5:8