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Full Preterism-Where is the scriptural evidence?

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yeshuasavedme

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armothe said:
That's exactly what I stated. And guess what, their expectations were WRONG - Jesus even told this to them. You now make the same mistake they did in their assumptions of what the kingdom of God is like. Both the Jews and yourself are expecting a physical kingdom, despite what Jesus said about His kingdom not being of this world (physical realm).



On the earth, really? Is that hidden in the original text somewhere? I'm not going to necessarily disagree, but its interesting to see how you read things into the text that just aren't there. Check your reference again, please.

You do a great job cutting and pasting scripture - causing it to appear that you know what you are talking about; unfortunately none of it is backed by sound interpretation resulting in reader disorientation.

-A
Of course I disagree with your interpretation, and the Pharisees, mainly, denied the name of the LORD and were guilty of blasphemy of the Holy spirit-as I understand it; for they would have accepted the Messiah if He would only have delivered them from Rome -and let them continue in their sins that Jesus enumerated so well; but they did not understand the message of the Mercy Seat and the Living oracle that they, as a nation, had been given to act out in their law, as a sign of the Person and work of the promised Redeemer of all in Adam; and they killed the Son, knowing full well that the inheritance was His -according to Jesus' parable, and they caused the delay of the kingdom's restoration to Israel by their willfull blasphemy, while the LORD, Himself, is getting His own 'harvest of sons' from the Gentiles; who will go 'in' first, to the regenerated sons of God state of being, in the adoption body of regeneration -at the time of the resurrection of the dead in Christ-, which is the what the Feast of Pentecost celebrates, which is the celebration of the first harvest of earth's 'sons'.

The last harvest is celebrated at Tabernacles, and that is why there is no Feast of Pentecost during the millennium, as it will be fullfilled in the completion of the first resurrection, which Jesus Chirst's resurrection from the dead is the 'First of Firstfruits' of -along with those Whom He raised from the dead when He was raised, who came out of their opened graves and walked about the city and were seen by many; and whom He took with Him on high when He ascended, 'leading captivity captive', on that 'first of firstfruits' celebration on that first, first day of the week after that Passover.

In the tribulation, when Israel begins to come into the harvest as sons, in the new covenant which was promised to them first, those 144,000 sealed of the twelve tribes of ISrael are said, specifically, to be the 'Firstfruits of Israel' and will be in their regenerated bodies after the great tribulation for that thousand year Sabbath, as that 'Firstfruits' of the last harvest of earth, as a sign of the promise of the harvest that is to come =that resurrection that is celebrated during Tabernacles.

The Feast of Tabernacles is celebrated during the millennial reign because the last harvest will not have been gathered in until the end of the thousand years =given their regenerated bodies, and all seed of Adam will be cast aways -cut off from the inheritance- and in the lake of fire for everlasting at the end of that thousand years when the eighth day of creation begins.

In the eighth day of creation, the New Beginning, called the regeneration of the heavens and the earth, this earth will be home forever for the regenerated sons of God. And that is what the redemption is all about: to bring many sons to glory; sons that were 'called' to be sons in Adam, before they ever came into their being; but who died in Adam, but were planned to be adopted in the New Man and regenerated and glorified as sons, again, in Israel, the Firstborn of God; who has come to redeem all in Adam [whosoever will] and bring them to son-ship in His image, for the glory to indwell them as the 'Israel house' for the Father's glory [as the Adam house is cut off forever from that son -ship and the glory, 'shamed and humiliated' in his being, for the absence of the glory that he was created to bear].



I post what I see from the Word of God, that everything that the Creator has done, is doing, and shall do, is revealed in the living oracles that He gave to His chosen people, the sons of Jacob; who received His New creation Man, human being name as a sign of the adoption that was to come. in the atonement of the New Man's blood.

And you should check the Scriptures yourself, for Jesus said that "My kingdom is 'not now' of this world" -and He said that as the New Creation Man who will take His great power and reign, cleansing His purchased kingdom of all things that offend, when He returns as son of Man to reign gloriously before His elders, in Jerusalem -His chosen place on this earth to reign from.

He has promised that His kingdom shall be of this world in hundreds of places -that's what the redemption of this planet and the 'marrying' of the 'barren widow' [who brought forth no godly seed =sons of God after the rebellion]is all about!

The first promise is in Genesis 3:15, of the Seed of the woman who would crush the 'head = the authority, of the serpent, that the devil gained through the serpent, over this kingdom, 'earth'; that the Father prepared for the Adam being; whom He created 'male and female', as the 'son of God', a house for His glory; and commanded him to 'multiply and fill the earth and have dominion over it and all that is in it and in the sea and in the air'.

This earth was 'paradise'; home of the human son of God who was a 'house' =a temple, in his human being creation; who was created to 'multiply' the godly seed placed in his loins, that was to come forth 'in Adam' for the Father's dwelling, in His Presence of glory.

Genesis 1:26-28; Psalm 8; Genesis 5:2; Malachi 2:15; Psalm 115:16.

And this earth is the kingdom that YHWH of hosts, LORD of all creation, 'is come' in flesh, to be the Kinsman Redeemer of, to bring the many sons to glory that were sold into sin and slavery and to 'restore all things' -back!
 
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Hidden Manna

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yeshuasavedme said:
Of course I disagree with your interpretation, and the Pharisees, mainly, denied the name of the LORD and were guilty of blasphemy of the Holy spirit-as I understand it; for they would have accepted the Messiah if He would only have delivered them from Rome -and let them continue in their sins that Jesus enumerated so well; but they did not understand the message of the Mercy Seat and the Living oracle that they, as a nation, had been given to act out in their law, as a sign of the Person and work of the promised Redeemer of all in Adam; and they killed the Son, knowing full well that the inheritance was His -according to Jesus' parable, and they caused the delay of the kingdom's restoration to Israel by their willfull blasphemy, while the LORD, Himself, is getting His own 'harvest of sons' from the Gentiles; who will go 'in' first, to the regenerated sons of God state of being, in the adoption body of regeneration -at the time of the resurrection of the dead in Christ-, which is the what the Feast of Pentecost celebrates, which is the celebration of the first harvest of earth's 'sons'.

The last harvest is celebrated at Tabernacles, and that is why there is no Feast of Pentecost during the millennium, as it will be fullfilled in the completion of the first resurrection, which Jesus Chirst's resurrection from the dead is the 'First of Firstfruits' of -along with those Whom He raised from the dead when He was raised, who came out of their opened graves and walked about the city and were seen by many; and whom He took with Him on high when He ascended, 'leading captivity captive', on that 'first of firstfruits' celebration on that first, first day of the week after that Passover.

In the tribulation, when Israel begins to come into the harvest as sons, in the new covenant which was promised to them first, those 144,000 sealed of the twelve tribes of ISrael are said, specifically, to be the 'Firstfruits of Israel' and will be in their regenerated bodies after the great tribulation for that thousand year Sabbath, as that 'Firstfruits' of the last harvest of earth, as a sign of the promise of the harvest that is to come =that resurrection that is celebrated during Tabernacles.

The Feast of Tabernacles is celebrated during the millennial reign because the last harvest will not have been gathered in until the end of the thousand years =given their regenerated bodies, and all seed of Adam will be cast aways -cut off from the inheritance- and in the lake of fire for everlasting at the end of that thousand years when the eighth day of creation begins.

In the eighth day of creation, the New Beginning, called the regeneration of the heavens and the earth, this earth will be home forever for the regenerated sons of God. And that is what the redemption is all about: to bring many sons to glory; sons that were 'called' to be sons in Adam, before they ever came into their being; but who died in Adam, but were planned to be adopted in the New Man and regenerated and glorified as sons, again, in Israel, the Firstborn of God; who has come to redeem all in Adam [whosoever will] and bring them to son-ship in His image, for the glory to indwell them as the 'Israel house' for the Father's glory [as the Adam house is cut off forever from that son -ship and the glory, 'shamed and humiliated' in his being, for the absence of the glory that he was created to bear].



I post what I see from the Word of God, that everything that the Creator has done, is doing, and shall do, is revealed in the living oracles that He gave to His chosen people, the sons of Jacob; who received His New creation Man, human being name as a sign of the adoption that was to come. in the atonement of the New Man's blood.

And you should check the Scriptures yourself, for Jesus said that "My kingdom is 'not now' of this world" -and He said that as the New Creation Man who will take His great power and reign, cleansing His purchased kingdom of all things that offend, when He returns as son of Man to reign gloriously before His elders, in Jerusalem -His chosen place on this earth to reign from.

He has promised that His kingdom shall be of this world in hundreds of places -that's what the redemption of this planet and the 'marrying' of the 'barren widow' [who brought forth no godly seed =sons of God after the rebellion]is all about!

The first promise is in Genesis 3:15, of the Seed of the woman who would crush the 'head = the authority, of the serpent, that the devil gained through the serpent, over this kingdom, 'earth'; that the Father prepared for the Adam being; whom He created 'male and female', as the 'son of God', a house for His glory; and commanded him to 'multiply and fill the earth and have dominion over it and all that is in it and in the sea and in the air'.

This earth was 'paradise'; home of the human son of God who was a 'house' =a temple, in his human being creation; who was created to 'multiply' the godly seed placed in his loins, that was to come forth 'in Adam' for the Father's dwelling, in His Presence of glory.

Genesis 1:26-28; Psalm 8; Genesis 5:2; Malachi 2:15; Psalm 115:16.

And this earth is the kingdom that YHWH of hosts, LORD of all creation, 'is come' in flesh, to be the Kinsman Redeemer of, to bring the many sons to glory that were sold into sin and slavery and to 'restore all things' -back!

Feast of Passover was fulfilled at the cross.

Feast of Pentecost was fulfilled when the Holy Spirit filled those in the upper room.

Feast of Tabernacles was fulfilled in AD 70 with the coming of the Lord in the glory of the Father with the saints who were raised from the spiritual death of hades of the old covenants separation of the law of sin and death.
 
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armothe

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yeshuasavedme said:
Of course I disagree with your interpretation, and the Pharisees, mainly, denied the name of the LORD and were guilty of blasphemy of the Holy spirit-as I understand it; for they would have accepted the Messiah if He would only have delivered them from Rome
Ah ha! So it is evident that the pharisees had physical expectations of the Messiah. I could provide pages of references stemming from the Jewish Pseudepigrapha, Jewish Apocrypha, Septuagint, Dead Sea Scrolls, Josephus, Talmud, Midrash and other rabbinical writings which clearly indicate the Jews expected a physical kingdom of the Messiah on earth. You expect the same.
yeshuasavedme said:
And you should check the Scriptures yourself, for Jesus said that "My kingdom is 'not now' of this world"
Excuse me? Your little 'not now' doesn't appear anywhere in the Greek.

John 18:36, "ajpekrivqh Ihsou'ß, ho basileiva emoß oujk esti ejk tou' kovsmou."

Ihsou'ß (Jesus)
ajpekrivqh (answered)
o (this)
emoß (my)
basileiva (kingdom/dominion)
esti (is)
oujk (not/not - used in direct opposition to questions expecting an affirmative answer
ejk (out of)
tou' (this)
Kovsmou (world/universe)

In other words:
John 18:36, "Jesus answered, this my kingdom is not out of this world."
NIV, "Jesus said, 'my kingdom is not of this world.'"

You may be comfortable reading things into scripture that aren't there to support your view on eschatology, but please refrain from dileberately fooling the readers of this forum by misquoting God's word.

-A
 
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yeshuasavedme

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armothe said:
Ah ha! So it is evident that the pharisees had physical expectations of the Messiah. I could provide pages of references stemming from the Jewish Pseudepigrapha, Jewish Apocrypha, Septuagint, Dead Sea Scrolls, Josephus, Talmud, Midrash and other rabbinical writings which clearly indicate the Jews expected a physical kingdom of the Messiah on earth. You expect the same.

Excuse me? Your little 'not now' doesn't appear anywhere in the Greek.

John 18:36, "ajpekrivqh Ihsou'ß, ho basileiva emoß oujk esti ejk tou' kovsmou."

Ihsou'ß (Jesus)
ajpekrivqh (answered)
o (this)
emoß (my)
basileiva (kingdom/dominion)
esti (is)
oujk (not/not - used in direct opposition to questions expecting an affirmative answer
ejk (out of)
tou' (this)
Kovsmou (world/universe)



You may be comfortable reading things into scripture that aren't there to support your view on eschatology, but please refrain from dileberately fooling the readers of this forum by misquoting God's word.

-A
You need to compare Scripture with Scripture and get the original to compare with: kosmos is age, Jesus said; "My kingdom is not of this age". The disciples asked, in Matthew 24, "what shall be the sign of Thy coming and of the end of the age?

At the end of this 'age', Yeshua returns in glory, and cleanses out of His kingdom all things that offend; and then the wicked will be found no more -not anywhere, just as in the days of Noah, they'll be taken all away when the Son of Man returns on His throne of glory and reigns before His elders gloriously, from His throne of glory, placed in the Holy of Holies, in restored Israel, from the temple that Ezekiel describes on the lifted up mount in Jerusalem.

Ezekiel 43:1-7 describes that day when He enters that Holy of Holies in Person to reign from His throne of glory, there, for the Day of the LORD, =that Sabbath Rest for this present creation at the end of this age when the wicked generation passes away from this earth and the righteous inherit the kingdom, the earth, that the Father "prepared for His sons".


Jhn 18:36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world [age]: if my kingdom were of this world [age], then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but "now is my kingdom not from hence".
"nun [size=-1]esti[/size] [size=-1]emos[/size] [size=-1]basileia[/size][size=-1] ou[/size] [size=-1]enteuthen"[/size]
nun; a primary particle of present time 1) at this time, the present, now
For Synonyms see entry 5815
AV - now 120, present 4, henceforth 4, this + 3588 3, this time 2,
misc 5; 138

esti; is
emos; My
basileia; kingdom
ou; 1) no, not; in direct questions expecting an affirmative answer AV - not 1210, no 147, cannot + 1410 57, misc 123; 1537
enteuthen; 1) from this place, hence 2) on the one side and on the other, on each side
AV - hence 6, on either side + 2534 4, from hence 3; 13

And yes, I can provide hundreds of Scriptures that show that the kingdom on earth is promised to the nation of Israel, but we'll begin in Genesis 1, and the fall, and the promise of restoration in Genesis 3:15, and follow the theme through to see Who, When, What, and Where; when the Messiah reigns from restored Israel, in Jerusalem, before His elders gloriously.

"Whether is easier, to say, Thy sins be forgiven thee; or to say, Rise up and walk? But that ye may know that the Son of man hath power upon earth to forgive sins, (he said unto the sick of the palsy,) I say unto thee, Arise, and take up thy couch, and go into thine house".

"whether is easier, to say" "My kingdom is 'not now' of this world" or to say but "now is my kingdom not from hence"; but now, so that you may know that His kingdom is coming "to hence" -I post this litte quote for you:)




 
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Hidden Manna

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yeshuasavedme said:
You need to compare Scripture with Scripture and get the original to compare with: kosmos is age, Jesus said; "My kingdom is not of this age". The disciples asked, in Matthew 24, "what shall be the sign of Thy coming and of the end of the age?

At the end of this 'age', Yeshua returns in glory, and cleanses out of His kingdom all things that offend; and then the wicked will be found no more -not anywhere, just as in the days of Noah, they'll be taken all away when the Son of Man returns on His throne of glory and reigns before His elders gloriously, from His throne of glory, placed in the Holy of Holies, in restored Israel, from the temple that Ezekiel describes on the lifted up mount in Jerusalem.

In the Olivet Discourse, Jesus points to the temple and great buildings and says, “not one stone shall be left upon one another, that shall not be thrown down (Matt. 24:1-3; Mark 13:1-4; Luke 21:5-7). The disciples respond by asking two questions: 1) When will these things take place? And 2) What will be the sign of Your coming and the end of the age?

This refers to the destruction upon Jerusalem in 70 AD. Matthew 24:1-3 expressly refers solely to the destruction of the temple and Christ’s return at the end of the Jews age. The reference to the “end of the world,” in that scripture is literally translated “end of the age.” The Jewish age ended at the destruction of Jerusalem and its Temple. “Jesus does not change subjects when the disciples ask the question when will these things take place? What things? The things about the Temple Jesus just mentioned in verse 1.

Jesus left the temple and was going away, when his disciples came to point out to him the buildings of the temple. But he answered them, “You see all these, do you not? Truly, I say to you, there will not be left here one stone upon another, that will not be thrown down.” As he sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately, saying, “Tell us, when will this be, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the close of the age?” (Matthew 24:1-3)

As Jesus’ disciples had just heard His prediction of “desolation” for the temple and city, they no doubt felt bewildered and wondered, “Lord, you cannot mean this temple!” They must have been astonished when Jesus told them that the temple was going to be destroyed, with not one stone left upon another. The disciples’ question involved three interrelated events: (1) the time of the temple’s destruction; (2) the signs that would signal Jesus’ Coming; and (3) the sign that would bring about the end of the age, compare parallel passages in Mark 13:4 and Luke 21:7. The disciples’ questions were related to the destruction of the temple and the end of the Jewish economy and to nothing else. There is no basis for a 2000-year “gap theory.”

Most carnal Bible interpreters think that the disciples wanted to know about the end of the planet. But the disciples did not ask about the end of the “world” (Gk. kosmos). Rather, with the temple and city as their main focus, they asked about the end of the “age” (Gk. aion). In Strong’s exhaustive concordance, it says of the word aion, “spec. (Jewish) a Messianic period (present).”

In Luke 21:20 we have other details of this predicted overthrow of the city and the Temple. There Jesus adds, “But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation has come near.”

Then in verses 27-28 Jesus also goes on to says; then they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. Now when these things begin to happen, look up and lift up your heads, because your redemption draws near.”

How many times have you heard in sermons that we have been redeemed? There is even a songs about it, “Redeemed, How I Love To Proclaim It, Since I Have Been Redeemed, Victory In Jesus” just to name a few. If the first century Christians were waiting to be redeemed, then we should be waiting to be redeemed if Jesus has not returned, in order to be consistent with the Bible. Futurists and here is a question for you. What and when is the “day of redemption”? Why do you teach something that goes against the word of God? See comments in Hebrews 9:28.

As long as the earthly Temple was still standing the way for man back into God’s eternal presence was Not open or manifested as Hebrews 9:8 clearly says. the Holy Spirit indicating this, that the way into the Holiest of All was not yet made manifest while the first tabernacle was still standing.

If Christ has not come, then we are still waiting to be individually redeemed from our sins. Luke 21:28 “When these things begin to take place, stand up and lift up your heads, because your redemption is drawing near.”

It is time to get back to the clear teaching in the Bible
 
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Hidden Manna

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yeshuasavedme said:
Ezekiel 43:1-7 describes that day when He enters that Holy of Holies in Person to reign from His throne of glory, there, for the Day of the LORD, =that Sabbath Rest for this present creation at the end of this age when the wicked generation passes away from this earth and the righteous inherit the kingdom, the earth, that the Father "prepared for His sons".

And yes, I can provide hundreds of Scriptures that show that the kingdom on earth is promised to the nation of Israel, but we'll begin in Genesis 1, and the fall, and the promise of restoration in Genesis 3:15, and follow the theme through to see Who, When, What, and Where; when the Messiah reigns from restored Israel, in Jerusalem, before His elders gloriously.






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I can help but to put this post over here on this tread like I did on the other one, it just fits to good to let her pass.

Futurist are awaiting

Futurist are awaiting a rebuild the temple. The “popular version” goes something like this: At this time God will restore the nation of the Jews, re-institute the Law of Moses, and rebuild the temple where the blood from animal sacrifices will again flow. The Church, you see, was only a parenthetical stop gap unseen by the Old Testament prophets. God’s real concern and desire is for the seed of Abraham after the flesh, i.e., nationalistic Jews. (This is a classic example of a common error - making a type be the fulfillment of itself.)

These are the following scriptures that many Christians base their believe on the rebuild the temple.

1- The Antichrist setting himself up as God in the “temple” of God, as told by Paul:
The man of lawlessness will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God’s temple, proclaiming himself to be God. (2Thes.2:4).

2- The Antichrist or his False Prophet setting up the Antichrist’s image in the temple, He was given power to give breath to the image of the first beast, so that it could speak and cause all who refused to worship the image to be killed. (Rev.13:15).

3- The Abomination of Desolation taking place: Jesus: “So when you see standing in the holy place ‘the abomination that causes desolation,’ spoken of through the prophet Daniel—let the reader understand--... (Mat.24:15, Dan.9:27, 11:31, 12:11). Daniel.


4- Among evangelical Christians it is the glorious temple described in Ezekiel 40-47. They claim this temple will be erected sometime in the future and will function during a thousand year reign of Christ at Jerusalem. God’s promise in Ezekiel 39:25-29, they say, sets the stage for chapters 40 and following.

What’s wrong with the above scenario? Now, here’s a secret. A future rebuild temple never came from the word of God, but from the mind of men. In theological circles it is a real “Johnny come lately.” Unfortunately many swallowed the new teaching, hook line and sinker.

And why would the Jews want to rebuild the temple.? For the same reason that the temple was maintained prior to its destruction in AD 70. They do not believe that Jesus is the promised Messiah. If the Jews once again build a temple and begin to offer sacrifices, this will only solidify their rejection of the need for the atoning blood of Jesus. It was this rejection that led to the destruction of the temple that was standing in Jesus’ day.”

Keep in mind that the central focus of the Olivet Discourse is the desolation of the “house” and “world” of apostate Israel (23:36). The old world of Judaism, represented by the earthly temple, is taken apart stone by stone (24:2).

“Each time God brought judgment on His people during the Old Covenant, there was a sense in which an old heavens and earth was replaced with a new one: New rulers were set up, a new symbolic world model was built (Tabernacle, Temple), and so forth.”

The New Covenant replaces the Old Covenant with new leaders, a new priesthood, new sacraments, a new sacrifice, a new tabernacle (John 1:14), and a new temple (John 2:19; 1 Corinthians 3:16; Ephesians 2:21). In essence, a new heaven and earth.”

There is not one verse in the New Testament that mentions the need for a rebuilt temple. In fact, just the opposite is stated. The temple of God in the New Testament is quite obviously the church of Christ with Jesus as the ‘cornerstone’ (1 Peter 2:7)

“The temple that Jesus said would be destroyed is the same temple with the same stones that was pointed out to Jesus by His disciples. No future temple is in view. Jesus gives no indication that He has a future temple in mind. But what if the Jews rebuild the temple? Such a temple will have nothing to do with the fulfillment on any part of this prophecy.”

And it is no accident during the centuries the Muslims controlled Palestine, two mosques were built on the very site of the Jewish Temple. (This was no coincidence; it is a common Islamic custom to build mosques on the sites of other people’s holy places.) Since any attempt to level these mosques would lead to an international Muslim holy war (jihad) against Israel, the Temple cannot be rebuilt in the foreseeable future. And very small Jewish groups today support constructing a Third Temple today, but most Jews oppose this, for a variety of reasons.

But what did God say in scripture about the old system of the law and the blood from animal sacrifices?
__________________ :thumbsup:
 
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yeshuasavedme

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Hidden Manna said:
Futurist are awaiting a rebuild the temple. The “popular version” goes something like this: At this time God will restore the nation of the Jews, re-institute the Law of Moses, and rebuild the temple where the blood from animal sacrifices will again flow.
These are the following scriptures that many Christians...__________________ :thumbsup:
I think you must be deliberately mis- speaking about the biblical views of those who believe the Scriptures; for no one I know has said that Moses' law is reinstituted.

I have most definitely pasted Scriptures that show that the temple is different, the priesthood is different, the sacrifices are different, and those that have been absolutely fullfilled will never be celebrated, as under Moses, again.

If you ever say such a thing again, after this post, then you will be deliberately misrepresenting what I have said; and what I say that I believe the Scriptures teach, and what I have posted about it -and that is against this forum's rules.

I hope after this I never see you purposely misrepresent what I say again -or I will be forced to point it out to the moderators.

The Ark of the Covenant is missing, in the future millennial temple, and the throne of glory of YHWH of hosts in Person is in that Holy of Holies. There is no veil, there is never the Day of atonement sacrifice again, for that was accomplished, and received, once, for all when the body of the NEw Man was our true Mercy Seat upon which the blood of sprinkling was accepted once, while His body hung upon the cross, the true altar.
The Feast of Pentecost is not celebrated, for that is about the first harvest, and the first harvest of sons is finished and will never be done again at the beginning of the Last Day, and those harvested sons reign with Him from the heavenly realm over this earth.

I believe what Ezekiel and many others -and our LORD- said, about that time of restoration of Israel, which the Father has put in His own hands

I have said that before, and you have now been warned that I will not accept you lying about what I say, or my position, again.

The Church will be in their regenerated bodies ruling with the Firstborn from the heavenly realm for that thousand years, while Israel is restored as a nation, and repopulates the earth along with the sheep Gentiles, because the remnant of them is brought into the New Covenant that they were the keepers of the oracles of and the first to be promised it -though the last to receive it.
 
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Hidden Manna

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yeshuasavedme said:
I believe what Ezekiel and many others -and our LORD- said, about that time of restoration of Israel, which the Father has put in His own hands

I have said that before, and you have now been warned that I will not accept you lying about what I say, or my position, again.

The Church will be in their regenerated bodies ruling with the Firstborn from the heavenly realm for that thousand years, while Israel is restored as a nation, and repopulates the earth along with the sheep Gentiles, because the remnant of them is brought into the New Covenant that they were the keepers of the oracles of and the first to be promised it -though the last to receive it.

Not Biblical Israel
Are the Jews that live in Israel today the same as the Jews of the Bible?
“Have you heard the news reports? Jews are returning to Israel. This is one of the predicted signs that Jesus is coming soon!” Not really. The Jews in Israel today are not the biblical Jews in our bible by any stretch of the imagination. That is certainly no argument. There is no Jewish Race today, let alone this being a sign that we are near the end of the Church age, Here is a quote from Encyclopedia Brittanica (1973), vol. 12, page 1054, were it actually states. The finding of physical anthropology show that, contrary to the popular view, there is on Jewish race.
Anthropometric measurement of Jewish groups in many parts of the world indicate that they differ greatly from one another with respect to all the important physical characteristics.

The reason behind this, of course is mixed bloodlines through the mixed marriages bringing about the most mixed racial origins of these people today. On top of that, the majority of so-called Jews in the world today are not Jews at all. (Even with the mixed blood), because their ancestry is that of the Khazars whose ancestors go far back to the turks and Huns, and who as a nation in A.D. 740 adopted the Jewish religion and became known as Jews.

Just as a side note here, let me say that those premillennialists today who hold to the viewpoint that so-called Israel’s being set up as a nation in Palestine is Biblical fulfillment are doing so contrary to the fact surrounding the evidence in historical documentation. Even if someone really wonted to proof he was a biblical Jew from the blood line of Abraham he could not because all the records and genealogy were destroyed in A.D. 70

Evangelist John L Bray who has spent many years around the world in many libraries gives us further historical documentation on this. He states in his book Matthew 24 Fulfilled page 210:

The prediction of judgment upon Israel was for THAT generation. That generation of opposed of Christ had said, “His blood be on us, and on our children” (Matthew 27:25). And it was. That judgment came about in A.D. 67-70, and the nation was decimated. Some say that the Jews today are guilty of the crucifixion of Jesus Christ. This is not true any more that are Gentiles who reject Him now. The nation that was officially guilty of the death of Christ received its judgment. God’s judgment is not upon Jews today because of what others did many years ago. We need to understand this.

In settlers of Khazaria were Turks and Huns. In A.D. 740 King Buulan of Khazaria decided to adopt the Judaisticreligion for his country. A number of Jews were already living there. So he converted to Judaism, along with all his officials, and his whole nation ended up being known as a nation of Jews. In 907 Russia came in and dominated the situation, and the Khazars were scattered, many of them going down into Poland and Lithuania, where at the dawn of our modern civilization the largest concentration of Jews were found. Today, the largest percentage of so-called Jews in the world have as their background this group of people. This is fully documented in detail in my book, Israel in Bible Prophecy.

Naturally, these people are not a “race” of Jews, and yet it is thought by some that they constitute the major portion of the 14,000,000 so-called Jews in the world today. Their features are different than the Sephardim Jews; their language backgrounds are different (the Ashkenazim speaking Yiddish, and the Sephardim with their Hebrew and many of them who speak Spanish on account of their own mixed-up background in Spain). In Israel they have their separate organizations, and the nation there is divided between these two mixed-up bloodlines of people. In the 12th century the Ashkenazim Jews made up only 6.7% of the Jews, but around 1965 they numbered 11,000,000 or about 86% of all the Jews in the world. Think of the implications of this!

In a recent book, Palestine is Coming, by Kermit Zarley, it was stated that “British Minister of State Lord Moyne supported his government’s White Paper of 1939 by publicly opposing further Jewish immigration. He argued the Jews were not demonstrably the true descendants of the ancient Hebrews and therefore without legitimate claim to the Holy Land. He meant that Jews were hardly a pure race, being a much more heterogeneous group that popularly conceived. For this, he was assassinated by the Stern Group on November 6, 1994” (Kermit Zarley, p.131).

“A common error and persistent modern myth is the designation of the Jews as a ‘race.’ This is scientifically fallacious, from the standpoint of both physical and historical tradition. Investigations by anthropologists have shown the Jews are by no means uniform in physical character and that they nearly always reflect the physical and mental characteristics of the people among whom they live” (Collier’s Encyclopedia, 1977, vol. 13, p. 573).

Being a Jew has nothing to do with race as such. Sammy Davis, Jr. became a Jew. Elizabeth Taylor became a Jew when she married Eddie Fisher. In June of 1991 Tom Arnold and Roseanne Barr, the T.V. entertainer, renewed publicly their wedding vows, and he was celebration his conversion to Judaism. Jews can be of different races. It is like someone who is a Catholic or a Protestant; they can be of any race or color. In Israel they have a peculiar law which says what their government says is a Jew. I quote this from Funk and wagnall’s New Encyclopedia, vol. 14, p 214: “In 1970 the Israeli Knesset adopted legislation defining a Jew as one born of a Jewish mother or a convert.” It matters not who the father is, nor to what race he belongs. And a convert can be from and race. So you see, we are not talking about a “race” of people when we talk about the Jewish people.

What difference does it make weather a Jewish person is a blood descendent of Abraham? There seems to be little doubt that the proper identification of Israel is the cornerstone of correct theology. Modern Israel is considered, by some, to be the blood inheritors of the promises given to Abraham. However there is no way in the would anyone can prove they are a biblical Jew because all the genealogys were destroyed in 70 A.D God made shore of that.

Politicians speak of a Jewish race in Biblical references to garner support for the ‘nation of Israel.’ Religious folk make the claim of an Jewish race to promote the idea of futurity for the nation in the prophetic scheme of things.

Numerous verses identify Israel, in New Testament prophecy, in terms of their tribal associations; however, these associations do not (and cannot, as will be seen) extend beyond the first century. One example of this is Matthew 24:30, where Christ declares that “the tribes of the (land) shall mourn.” Knowing that no New Testament prophecy extends beyond the first century, we recognize the fulfillment of this verse in that Israel, prior to the destruction of Jerusalem, was reckoned in tribal relations. Paul, for instance, refers to his being of the stock of Benjamin in Romans 11:1. Another example of tribal reference in NT prophecy is the counting of the first century first-fruits to the Lord (notice that they are not last-fruits) in Revelation chapter 7, verse 4.

After the destruction of Jerusalem, however, the nation of Israel after the flesh was scattered throughout the earth, and lost all tribal relations. This scattering was made immutable due to the fact that all tribal genealogical records were destroyed with the Second Temple in A.D. 70. The simple fact is that there is no existing Jewish race.

Consider the following quotations:

The Encyclopedia Brittanica (1973)
‘The Jews As A Race: The findings of physical anthropology show that, contrary to the popular view, there is no Jewish race. Anthropornetric measurements of Jewish groups in many parts of the world indicate that they differ greatly from one another with respect to all the important physical characteristics.” (vol. 12, page 1054)

Encyclopedia Judaica Jerusalem (1971)
“It is a common assumption, and one that sometimes seems ineradicable even in the face of evidence to the contrary, that the Jews of today constitute a race, a homogeneous entity easily recognizable. From the preceding discussion of the origin and early history of the Jews, it should be clear that in the course of their formation as a people and a nation they had already assimilated a variety of racial strains from people moving into the general area they occupied. This had taken place by interbreeding and then by conversion to Judaism of a considerable number of communities. . . .
“Thus, the diversity of the racial and genetic attributes of various Jewish colonies of today renders any unified racial classification of them a contradiction in terms. Despite this, many people readily accept the notion that they are a distinct race. This is probably reinforced by the fact that some Jews are recognizably different in appearance from the surrounding population. That many cannot be easily identified is overlooked and the stereotype for some is extended to all - a not uncommon phenomenon” (Encyclopedia Judaica Jerusalem, 1971, vol. 3, p. 50).

Encyclopedia Americana (1986)
“Racial and Ethnic Considerations. Some theorists have considered the Jews a distinct race, although this has no factual basis. In every country in which the Jews lived for a considerable time, their physical traits came to approximate those of the indigenous people. Hence the Jews belong to several distinct racial types, ranging, for example, from fair to dark. Among the reasons for this phenomenon are voluntary or involuntary miscegenation and the conversion of Gentiles to Judaism” (Encyclopedia Americana, 1986, vol. 16, p. 71).

Collier’s Encyclopedia (1977)
“A common error and persistent modern myth is the designation of the Jews as a ‘race! This is scientifically fallacious, from the standpoint of both physical and historical tradition. Investigations by anthropologists have shown that Jews are by no means uniform in physical character and that they nearly always reflect the physical and mental characteristics of the people among whom they five” (Collier’s Encyclopedia, 1977, vol. 13, p. 573).

Today, being a Jew simply means that one is of the Judaistic religion or a convert to it, or else in a “brotherhood” of those who are. Therefore, being a Jew has nothing to do with race. We are familiar with a number of notable figures, such as Sammy Davis, Jr., Elizabeth Taylor, and Tom Arnold, in fact, who became Jews by conversion to the religion of Judaism. In fact, one is defined a Jew by legal dispensation or coercion, with race playing no part at all:

Funk and Wagnall’s New Encyclopedia (1970)
“In 1970 the Israeli Knesset adopted legislation defining a Jew as one born of a Jewish mother or a convert.” (vol. 14, p. 214)

H.G. Wells
“There can be little doubt that the scattered Phoenicians in Spain and Africa and throughout the Mediterranean, speaking as they did a language closely akin to Hebrew and being deprived of their authentic political rights, became proselytes to Judaism. For phases of vigorous proselytism alternated with phases of exclusive jealousy in Jewish history. On one occasion the Idumeans, being conquered, were all forcibly made Jews. There were Arab tribes who were Jews in the time of Muhammad, and a Thrkish people who were mainly Jews in South Russia in the ninth century. Judaism is indeed the reconstructed political ideal of many shattered peoples - mainly Semitic.... The main part of Jewry never was in Judea and had never come out of Judea” (The Outline of History, p. 505).

Therefore, we can clearly and confidently assert that there is no such thing as a Jewish race, or fleshly Israel, nor ever can there be again.
 
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Hidden Manna

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yeshuasavedme said:
I think you must be deliberately mis- speaking about the biblical views of those who believe the Scriptures; for no one I know has said that Moses' law is reinstituted.


If you ever say such a thing again, after this post, then you will be deliberately misrepresenting what I have said; and what I say that I believe the Scriptures teach, and what I have posted about it -and that is against this forum's rules.

I hope after this I never see you purposely misrepresent what I say again -or I will be forced to point it out to the moderators.


I have said that before, and you have now been warned that I will not accept you lying about what I say, or my position, again.

I never said that you personal said that Moses' law is reinstituted. this is just part of the typical view of 99% of those who have a futuristic view. Your personal view may not reflect that idea and like I said I was not directing that statement to your personal view if it is different that most pre tribbers.

I lost count of the times I've heard that the "Antichrist who set up sacrfices according to Daniel 9:27 that will be stopped in the middle of the last week.

27 Then he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week; But in the middle of the week He shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering.

What kind of sacrifice and offering is this then if according to your view is not Moses' law is reinstituted?

Do you even see this scripture speaking about the antichrist. I for one do not, I see this text speaking of the Messiah and His death in the middle of the last week. I can not accept this last week with a 2000 year and counting gap. I see the 70 weeks all happened one right after the other and it all fits and comes together at the cross and ends at stephens death when Paul said he would start to take the gospel to the gentiles which was three and a half years after stephen died.
 
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yeshuasavedme

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Not Biblical Israel
Are the Jews that live in Israel today the same as the Jews of the Bible?


“Have you heard the news reports? Jews are returning to Israel. This is one of the predicted signs that Jesus is coming soon!” Not really. The Jews in Israel today are not the biblical Jews in our bible by any stretch of the imagination. That is certainly no argument. There is no Jewish Race today,

That is a blasphemy against the Word of God.
The Father gives his seed to the offspring -the mother does not, and the seed of Jacob has never fallen to the earth -ever! anyone who says so is calling YHWH a liar.

Jer 33:22 As the host of heaven cannot be numbered, neither the sand of the sea measured: so will I multiply the seed of David my servant, and the Levites that minister unto me.
Jer 33:24 Considerest thou not what this people has spoken, saying, The two families which the LORD hath chosen, he hath even cast them off? thus they have despised my people, that they should be no more a nation before them.
Jer 33:25 Thus saith the LORD; If my covenant [be] not with day and night, [and if] I have not appointed the ordinances of heaven and earth;
Jer 33:26 Then will I cast away the seed of Jacob, and David my servant, [so] that I will not take [any] of his seed [to be] rulers over the seed of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob: for I will cause their captivity to return, and have mercy on them.


God Will Restore Israel
Ezekiel 20:
33 "As I live," says the Lord God, "surely with a mighty hand, with an outstretched arm, and with fury poured out, I will rule over you.
34 I will bring you out from the peoples and gather you out of the countries where you are scattered, with a mighty hand, with an outstretched arm, and with fury poured out.
35 And I will bring you into the wilderness of the peoples, and there I will plead My case with you face to face.
36 Just as I pleaded My case with your fathers in the wilderness of the land of Egypt, so I will plead My case with you," says the Lord God.
37 "I will make you pass under the rod, and I will bring you into the bond of the covenant;
38 I will purge the rebels from among you, and those who transgress against Me; I will bring them out of the country where they dwell, but they shall not enter the land of Israel. Then you will know that I am the Lord.
39 "As for you, O house of Israel," thus says the Lord God: "Go, serve every one of you his idols--and hereafter--if you will not obey Me; but profane My holy name no more with your gifts and your idols.
40 For on My holy mountain, on the mountain height of Israel," says the Lord God, "there all the house of Israel, all of them in the land, shall serve Me; there I will accept them, and there I will require your offerings and the firstfruits of your sacrifices, together with all your holy things.
41 I will accept you as a sweet aroma when I bring you out from the peoples and gather you out of the countries where you have been scattered; and I will be hallowed in you before the Gentiles.
42 Then you shall know that I am the Lord, when I bring you into the land of Israel, into the country for which I raised My hand in an oath to give to your fathers.
43 And there you shall remember your ways and all your doings with which you were defiled; and you shall loathe yourselves in your own sight because of all the evils that you have committed.
44 Then you shall know that I am the Lord, when I have dealt with you for My name's sake, not according to your wicked ways nor according to your corrupt doings, O house of Israel," says the Lord God.'"
 
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Hidden Manna

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yeshuasavedme said:


That is a blasphemy against the Word of God.
The Father gives his seed to the offspring -the mother does not, and the seed of Jacob has never fallen to the earth -ever! anyone who says so is calling YHWH a liar.

Jer 33:22 As the host of heaven cannot be numbered, neither the sand of the sea measured: so will I multiply the seed of David my servant, and the Levites that minister unto me.
Jer 33:24 Considerest thou not what this people has spoken, saying, The two families which the LORD hath chosen, he hath even cast them off? thus they have despised my people, that they should be no more a nation before them.
Jer 33:25 Thus saith the LORD; If my covenant [be] not with day and night, [and if] I have not appointed the ordinances of heaven and earth;
Jer 33:26 Then will I cast away the seed of Jacob, and David my servant, [so] that I will not take [any] of his seed [to be] rulers over the seed of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob: for I will cause their captivity to return, and have mercy on them.





The scriptures from Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel and many more concerning their captivity to return and rebuilding the temple were all fulfilled right after the nation of Israel, etc came out of babylon. Herod's temple was the one spoken of, not some temple in the future.

So you have nada for the future, all scripture was fulfilled in AD70 according to what Jesus said in luke 21:20 " But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation is near. * 21 "Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those who are in the midst of her depart, and let not those who are in the country enter her. * 22 "For these are the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled. * 23 "But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! For there will be great distress in the land and wrath upon this people. * 24 "And they will fall by the edge of the sword, and be led away captive into all nations. And Jerusalem will be trampled by Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled. *



The Church has long been the only temple now and forever will be the only temple. Jesus Christ is the cornerstone and will are the lively stones spoken of in the epistles of Peter.

The Land Belonged to God

Scripture says the (land belongs to God) and was not a permanent entitlement to anyone. “’The land must not be sold permanently, because the land is mine and you are but aliens and my tenants.”’ (Lev. 25:23 NIV) The Bible says that they were only “tenants”. As tenants there were in the land or God’s property for a fixed period of time. This arrangement is usually under the terms of a lease or some similar legal Covenant or agreement. (See Deut.8:1; 2Ch 7:19-20) To teach or imply otherwise is nothing less than to compromise the Gospel itself.

A heavenly inheritance has been the expectation of Abraham and the people of God in all ages.

By faith Abraham, when called to go to a place he would later receive as his inheritance, obeyed and went, even though he did not know where he was going. By faith he made his home in the promised land like a stranger in a foreign country; he lived in tents, as did Isaac and Jacob, who were heirs with him of the same promise. For he was looking forward to the city with foundations, whose architect and builder is God. By faith Abraham, even though he was past age and Sarah herself was barren was enabled to become a father because he considered him faithful who had made the promise. And so from this one man, and he as good as dead, came descendants as numerous as the stars in the sky and as countless as the sand on the seashore. All these people were still living by faith when they died. They did not receive the things promised; they only saw them and welcomed them from a distance. And they admitted that they were aliens and strangers on earth. People who say such things show that they are looking for a country of their own. If they had been thinking of the country they had left, they would have had opportunity to return. Instead, they were longing for a better country a heavenly one. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God, for he has prepared a city for them. (Hebrews 12:8-16 NIV)

“But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, to an innumerable company of angels, to the general assembly and church of the firstborn who are registered in heaven, to God the Judge of all, to the spirits of just men made perfect, to Jesus the Mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling that speaks better things than that of Abel.” (Hebrews 11:13-16)

The heavenly country was the fulfillment concerning the promise of the land of Palestine that Abraham looked for. The physical land of Palestine was only a tempera entitlement of a greater promise land to come.

The Gospel offers eternal life in heaven to Jews and Gentiles alike as a free gift in Jesus Christ. Eternal life in heaven is not earned or deserved, nor is it based upon ethnic descent or natural birth. And there is no special divine favor for inheritance upon any member of any religious group to the earthly land of Palestine whether Jew or Gentile or Muslim. (Lev. 25:23)

The Apostle Paul, to the Circumcision, in Rome says nothing about the restoration of the kingdom to Israel in the land of Palestine. Instead, Paul persuades his Jewish readers to consider themselves dead to the old but alive to the new. (Romans 6:5) He fixes their hope upon the resurrection.

No New Testament writer foresees a regathering of ethnic Israel in the land, as did the prophets of the Old Testament after the destruction of the first temple in 586 B.C. Moreover, the land promises of the Old Covenant are consistently and deliberately expanded in the New Testament to show the universal dominion of Jesus, (Psalm 2:7-8) who reigns from heaven upon the throne of David, inviting all the nations through the Gospel of Grace to partake of his universal and everlasting dominion.

Bad Christian theology regarding the “Middle East” and Palestine, contributed to the tragic cruelty This doctrine is both contrary to the teaching of the New Testament and a violation of the Gospel mandate.

Under that old covenant earthly blessings were promised to an earthly people, including national existence and the possession of the land of Canaan. Those blessings, moreover (and it is important to observe this) were made to depend upon express conditions, to be faithfully observed by that people, and were to be forfeited if those conditions were not observed. But that covenant, the Lord declares, “they brake.” And now, through Jeremiah, He proclaims the great fact that He will make, in a time then future, “a new covenant,” which was to be of a different sort.

The Epistle to the Hebrews explains fully this prophecy of Jeremiah concerning the new covenant, the prophecy itself being quoted in full in Heb. 8:7-13, and in part in 10:15-17. It is the “everlasting covenant,” secured by the blood of Jesus Christ (Heb. 13: 20). It is established with a heavenly people, those who are “come to Mount Sion, and to the city of the living God the heavenly Jerusalem, . . . and to the church of the first born (ones) who are written (i.e. enrolled) in heaven” (Ch. 12:22, 23). It is “a better covenant established upon better promises” (Ch. 8:6)
We have already seen that, by the covenant of Sinai, God offered them the highest of all blessings, but upon the express condition of obedience; the terms being, “If ye will obey My voice indeed, and keep My Covenant” (Ex. 19:5,6). To this they all agreed, saying, “All that the Lord hath spoken, we will do” (v. 8). And this pledge of obedience was twice repeated by them after the ten commandments had been spoken to them (Ex. 24:3 and 7). Nevertheless, that covenant was broken by them within forty days through the idolatry of the golden calf (“Which My covenant they brake,” Jer. 31:32).


Now the matter of chief interest for our present purposes is that, from this national destruction by the Romans there was to be no recovery. And in this, the prophecy of Moses is in full accord with that of Jesus Christ, recorded in Matthew 24 and Luke 21. For Moses said: “God will rejoice over you to destroy you, and to bring you to nought; and ye shall be plucked from off the land wither thou goest to possess it. And the Lord shall scatter thee among all people, from one end of the earth even to the other” (Deut. 28:63,64). This, according to this prophecy, was to be the end of their history as a nation.

And now the law has been superseded by the gospel, with its “better hope.” The economy of the law, with all its shadows - people, land, city, temple, priesthood, sacrifices- has been set aside, and forever.

Being a member of Israel in the Old Testament was dependent upon faith and obedience to God. When the Israelites obeyed God, God loved them. But when the Israelites turned from him, He hated them, stripping them of their Israelite status. After centuries of Israelite rebellion against God, culminating in their rejection of Jesus the Messiah, the titles, attributes and blessings of Israel were transferred to all who accept Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior, and to no one else, regardless of Abrahamic descent.
 
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notswift

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EchoPneuma said:
Jesus said it, that settles it for me. Over and over He said He would return within THAT generation....and even told His disciples that some of them standing there wouldn't die before they saw Him coming in His kingdom. He told the High Priest Caiphas that he would see Him coming on the clouds with glory. He told the disciples that He sent out to the cities of Israel that they wouldn't finish going through the towns of Israel before He came back. He said that the time of punishment upon the Jews when the temple was destroyed (in 70AD) was going to fulfill ALL that had been written
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Are we not eternal souls? Is it possible the the High Priest Caiphas would be in the company of the rich man as they observed Lazarus rejoicing in the coming of the Lord.. when He comes to bring final judgement? Didn't yeshuasavedme deliver a very clear demonstration of the proper interpretation and application of the word 'generation' in his previous post? Was David mistaken.. or, should i declare - Scripture mistaken where in Psalm 37:10 he writes, "For yet a little while and the wicked shall be no more" ... wouldn't it appear by our feeble understanding of time to have been just a bit more than 'a little while' from the time David wrote that prohecy? ... questions, questions... and, more questions.
 
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yeshuasavedme

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Replacement theology is terrible blasphemy against the Word of God.

God has not cast away His people, whom He called, by His plan, to be His people before they came into being. He called them into being as signs of His mercy and grace, and He has not changed His mind. His gifts and calling are without repentence.

They are His people; He surnamed them; they bear His New Creation Man name, as a sign of the promises of adoption in the New Man =the New Covenant.

There are at least seven temples of YHWH, on earth; His house, mentioned in the Word of God, all signs of the latter temple, being built in heaven, which is not the whole temple but is the Holy of Holies of the temple not made with hands, which temple in the regeneration of the heavens and the earth is God and the Lamb, which Holy of Holies is the house for YHWH being built, which shall continue to be built until the end of the thousand year Sabbath rest, from those sons adopted from Adam; and which is that heavenly city, the true house of Israel, the New Man:

Before Adam, the heavenly temple, not on earth, was prepared in the six days of creation as a sign of the redemption to come to the Adam being when he would be created in the sixth day, and fall shortly after, in rebellion, and not be the temple, or house, of YHWH, for His Presence of glory to indwell;

1 the Adam being;

2 the tabernacle in the wilderness;

3 the temple that Solomon built according to the plan given to Moses;

4 the rebuilt temple, after the partial return of Israel from the Babylonian captivity: Israel has never returned totally, and the indignation has only begun; and has not been ended that God foretold against His people. The latter end of the indignation that began with the Babylonian Captivity when the temple was destroyed and the Ark of the Covenant taken away -which has never returned to Israel since that time- is told of in Daniel, and when it ends, ISraael is restored and the Messianic reign begins in national restored Israel of the Sabbath rest for this earth.

5 The Church, in a measure, for the full glory is to come in the regenerated bodies, made in the image of the New Man at the adoption, the regneration of the bodies;
6 The tribulation temple

7 the millennial temple, which is not the pattern Moses received and was given to Ezekiel for Israel and details the millennial Jerusalem and the temple and the priesthood of those who are called from the returned Levites for service in the millennial temple: only the sons of Zadok will serve the LORD of hosts in the sanctuary; the priesthood is changed, from the anointing of Yeshua the Messiah at His baptism, and in the Millennial reign, He sits as King and High Priest -not according to the law of Moses, but to the law that preceded Moses, the law of the dominion and priesthood of firstborn, given to Adam in the beginning.


In the regeneration of the heavens and the earth; God and the Lamb is the temple, with the Holy of Holies being the bride of Christ; the 'many sons whom He came to bring to glory'.
 
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yeshuasavedme

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Israel is the name of the New Creation human being Man name of YHWH of hosts, who is come in flesh to be the Savior of all men; who, as YHWH of hosts in the form of the Messenger of YHWH, wrestled with Jacob the night Jacob really repented of his deception in taking the blessing of firstborn by deception from Esau, and Who blessed Jacob with His own New Name as a sign of the promises in the adoption to come -the regenerated bodies.

To be in Israel one was born in the commonwealth as Jacob's seed, or one joined the commonwealth and was baptized -purified, and came in by oath of keeping the covenant after the nation was formed in the wilderness.

To be blotted out of the commonwealth as an inheritor in Israel of the promises by willfull rebellion against the law of God was the only way to lose one's identity as an inheritor of the promises; and that, itself, was a sign of the blotting out of the names from the Book of Life that comes in each individual person's life who is born into this world in Adam, who resists the Holy Spirit's witness of the Light that every man is born in, that leads one to know Christ if one seeks the Light that first seeks each Adam person who comes into the world.

Willfull sin, against the Light, gets the name blotted out, and those who sinned willfully by crucifying the LORD of glory were blotted out of the Book of Life and of the commonwealth of Israel, as the Holy Spirit wrote through David, in Psalm 69 and 109, about them.

But God will have His house, and Israel is His Son and those in Israel are His called, His chosen, "first', in the Elect ONE, the Holl ONE of Israel.

He broke off some of the branches that were the natural branches in Israel, and grafted the Gentiles in, wild branches grafted in can be lopped off, too; so 'take heed', says the Holy Spirit through Paul, and do not boast against the natural branches, for He will lop you off if you rebel against the Light, too.

The natural branches can be grafted back in again, and shall be, when the fullness of the Gentiles be harvested as sons, in the removal of them in their regenerated bodies off the earth at the beginning of the Day of the LORD, that time that begins with the time of Jacob's trouble, in which all natural Israel, the natural seed of Jacob, shall be saved, who are chosen to remain on earth to be part of the Blessed of the LORD for the millennial reign, as Ezekiel 20:33-44 tells of, which is that gathering of the elect by angels after the great tribulation that Jesus spoke of, in Matthew 24.

Jer 31:10 Hear the word of the LORD, O ye nations, and declare [it] in the isles afar off, and say, He that scattered Israel will gather him, and keep him, as a shepherd [doth] his flock.

In the final battle over Jerusalem, when the final man of sin, an Assyrian, and a Babylonian King of restored Babylon, who is a spiritual seed of the devil -or a Neplilim-comes against Jerusalem, the LORD returns to fight for Jerusalem and to slay that man of sin with the brightness of His coming and to reign in Jerusalem over all the earth after cleansing His kingdom that He then takes possession of.

The indignation that began against Israel when the Babylonian captivity began will not be consumated until the last seven years of 70 weeks of seven years that Daniel was told of, by the angel; which seven years only begins when the Church is removed from this earth at the harvest that completes the first harvest, 'Pentecost'; that harvest of sons of God from this earth, in their regenerated bodies for glorifying with the glory of the Presence of the Living Spirit.



Isa 31:5 As birds flying, so will the LORD of hosts defend Jerusalem; defending also he will deliver [it; and] passing over he will preserve it.
Isa 31:4 For thus hath the LORD spoken unto me, Like as the lion and the young lion roaring on his prey, when a multitude of shepherds is called forth against him, [he] will not be afraid of their voice, nor abase himself for the noise of them: so shall the LORD of hosts come down to fight for mount Zion, and for the hill thereof.
Isa 31:7 For in that day every man shall cast away his idols of silver, and his idols of gold, which your own hands have made unto you [for] a sin.
Isa 31:8Then shall the Assyrian fall with the sword, not of a mighty man; and the sword, not of a mean man, shall devour him: but he shall flee from the sword, and his young men shall be discomfited.
Isa 31:9 And he shall pass over to his strong hold for fear, and his princes shall be afraid of the ensign, saith the LORD, whose fire [is] in Zion, and his furnace in Jerusalem.

fire; 1) flame, light of fire
furnace 1) furnace, oven, fire-pot, (portable) stove ...b) of God's wrath, His furnace...

The land covenant in Genesis 15 was ratified by the burning Lamp and the smoking Furnace, and He dwells in Jerusalem.

Gen 15:17 And it came to pass, that, when the sun went down, and it was dark, behold a smoking furnace, and a burning lamp that passed between those pieces.

God's two witnesses, the Word and the Holy Spirit, as the burning lamp and smoking furnace, ratified the land covenant, and no man did so, and He will perform His oath; and natural, redeemed, restored, Israel, His namesake, shall inherit the land that YHWH has chosen to reign over this earth from for the thousand year Sabbath.
 
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yeshuasavedme

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notswift said:
.
Are we not eternal souls? Is it possible the the High Priest Caiphas would be in the company of the rich man as they observed Lazarus rejoicing in the coming of the Lord.. when He comes to bring final judgement? Didn't yeshuasavedme deliver a very clear demonstration of the proper interpretation and application of the word 'generation' in his previous post? Was David mistaken.. or, should i declare - Scripture mistaken where in Psalm 37:10 he writes, "For yet a little while and the wicked shall be no more" ... wouldn't it appear by our feeble understanding of time to have been just a bit more than 'a little while' from the time David wrote that prohecy? ... questions, questions... and, more questions.
Yes.
The wicked will be no more, on this earth, they shall pass away at the end of this age, when Messiah returns to reign and cleanses His kingdom of all things that offend.
Just as He did in the flood of Noah, when they, the wicked, were all swept away, but Noah's days continued.
 
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Hidden Manna

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notswift said:
.
Are we not eternal souls? Is it possible the the High Priest Caiphas would be in the company of the rich man as they observed Lazarus rejoicing in the coming of the Lord.. when He comes to bring final judgement? Didn't yeshuasavedme deliver a very clear demonstration of the proper interpretation and application of the word 'generation' in his previous post? Was David mistaken.. or, should i declare - Scripture mistaken where in Psalm 37:10 he writes, "For yet a little while and the wicked shall be no more" ... wouldn't it appear by our feeble understanding of time to have been just a bit more than 'a little while' from the time David wrote that prohecy? ... questions, questions... and, more questions.

Now can you tell me what exactly need David mean when he said:

Psalm 37:10 he writes, "For yet a little while and the wicked shall be no more"

However does not Isaiah say in Chapter 65:20 that the sinner will be accursed if he lives to 100 years in the new heaven and earth.

) Isaiah 65:20 " No more shall an infant from there [live but a few] days, Nor an old man who has not fulfilled his days; For the child shall die one hundred years old, But the sinner [being] one hundred years old shall be accursed.

Yet inside the city of the new jerusalem

27 But there shall by no means enter it anything that defiles, or causes an abomination or a lie, but only those who are written in the Lamb's Book of Life.

While on the outside of the gates are sinners.

14 Blessed [are] those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city. 15 But outside [are] dogs and sorcerers and sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and whoever loves and practices a lie.

Futurist need to twist what David said to make there view right but as I have shown it's nada.

Now what exactly did David mean and how does it fit into the light of what Isaiah said in 65:20 and what John said in Revelation 22:15
:confused:

Maybe David was meaning about a army from another nation around Israel he destroyed in a little while from the time he said that. David did win many battles in his time.

David was speaking of the wick persons physical death. in Verse 35 which could have come right after a battle. He is speaking to the generation at that time and not as a worldwide event.

35 I have seen the wicked in great power, And spreading himself like a native green tree. * 36 Yet he passed away, and behold, he [was] no [more;] Indeed I sought him, but he could not be found.

Now does that mean we can take what David said and project it 3000 years after what he said.

Prophecy and Vision foretold to End

(Ezekiel 12:22-28) Son of man, what is that proverb that ye have in the land of Israel, saying, The days are prolonged, and every vision faileth? {23} Tell them therefore, Thus saith the Lord GOD; I will make this proverb to cease, and they shall no more use it as a proverb in Israel; but say unto them, The days are at hand, and the effect of every vision. {24} For there shall be no more any vain vision nor flattering divination within the house of Israel. {25} For I am the LORD: I will speak, and the word that I shall speak shall come to pass; it shall be no more prolonged: for in your days, O rebellious house, will I say the word, and will perform it, saith the Lord GOD. {26} Again the word of the LORD came to me, saying, {27} Son of man, behold, they of the house of Israel say, The vision that he seeth is for many days to come, and he prophesieth of the times that are far off. {28} Therefore say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; There shall none of my words be prolonged any more, but the word which I have spoken shall be done, saith the Lord GOD.
 
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Hidden Manna

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yeshuasavedme said:
notswift said:
Yes.
The wicked will be no more, on this earth, they shall pass away at the end of this age, when Messiah returns to reign and cleanses His kingdom of all things that offend.
Just as He did in the flood of Noah, when they, the wicked, were all swept away, but Noah's days continued.

His Winnowing Fan

Since I became a preterist and found out everything we have today is because of the Jews. Biblical Jews that is. For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. (Romens 1:16) So I love looking into the meaning of what was said in the Bible.

One really good example is John the Baptist and the Pharisees. But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees coming to his baptism, he said to them, “Brood of vipers! Who warned you to flee from the wrath to come? Therefore bear fruits worthy of repentance, and do not think to say to yourselves, “We have Abraham as our father.’ For I say to you that God is able to raise up children to Abraham from these stones. And even now the ax is laid to the root of the trees. Therefore every tree which does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire. His winnowing fan is in His hand, and He will thoroughly clean out His threshing floor, and gather His wheat into the barn; but He will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.” (Matthew 3:7-12)

This is another place you have to be completely aware of the Jewish customs. In the Old Testament we find an interesting relationship with the “threshing floor”. As we begin to explore this relationship we find some interesting things, which God has to say to us through this analogy. Let us consider what the threshing floor represents in Scriptures. Its meaning goes beyond merely “the place where grain was threshed”.

At the center of the threshing floor, one finds two large flat stones, one resting on the top of the other. They were “fitted and joined” together. The top stone was known as the “female” and the bottom stone the “male”. The “grinding of grain” was a depiction of the act of marriage (Job 31:10). It is symbolic of the relationship between the Bride and the Bridegroom. The act of this marriage is a physical depiction of the “spiritual communion” God desires between Himself and Israel. In the Old Testament Israel is viewed as the wife of the Lord. (see Isaiah 50, Jeremiah 3)

Her long marriage had built within her a false sense of security that blinded her to the approaching calmities. When God’s covenant people stray from Him and worship other gods, God calls it “adultery” or “playing the harlot” (Isaiah 1:21; Ezek. 23:37, Hosea 4:12). and they became the habitation of devils (Revelation 18:2).

Notice what God says to Israel in Hosea 9:1, “You have loved harlots earnings on every threshing floor”. Now the “winnowing fork” The Greek word describes a tool utilized to grab cut wheat for threshing by tossing it into the air, at which time wind currents would separate the heavier wheat grains from the lighter chaff. The text in Matthew implies the time of “threshing”, was when God separated the “wheat’ from the “chaff.” Jesus had His winnowing fork at the time when John the Baptist announced His arrival. Most importantly, John the Baptist said that Jesus was ready to apply the winnowing forks to the threshing floor, which is a symbol to the Jews that their marriage relationship with God was about to end.

Winnowing was the process of separating the (good) wheat from the (useless) chaff, this process of separation after the harvest was again used by Jesus Himself. Jesus presented another parable to them, saying, “The kingdom of heaven may be compared to a maan who sowed good seed in his field. “But while his men were sleeping, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went away. “But when the wheat sprouted and bore grain, then the tares became evident also. “The slaves of the landowner came and said to him, ‘Sir, did you not sow good seed in your field? How then does it have tares?’ “And he said to them, ‘An enemy has done this!’ The slaves said to him, ‘Do you want us, then, to go and gather them up?’ “But he said, ‘No; for while you are gathering up the tares, you may uproot the wheat with them. ‘Allow both to grow together until the harvest; and in the time of the harvest I will say to the reapers, “First gather up the tares and bind them in bundles to burn them up; but gather the wheat into my barn.” (Matthew 13:24-30 )

Were John and Jesus referring to two different harvests thousands of years away , I don’t believe so. Then He said to His disciples, “The harvest is plentiful, but the workers are few.” (Matthew 9:37) The harvest was the end of the age, and the winnowing would follow it, not in our future.

“Do you not say, ‘There are yet four months, and then comes the harvest’? Behold, I say to you, lift up your eyes and look on the fields, that they are white for harvest.” (John 4:35) There is no way anyone can biblically say that the harvest would be a process going on for thousands of years, since Jesus did not have a sickle in his hand (the harvesting tool), but the winnowing fork. What Jesus was ready to do then, would be done after the harvest.

So you see the only way to really understand the Bible is to have a good grasp of the language, culture, historical setting in which these things were originally written and their Jewish customs.
 
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armothe

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yeshuasavedme said:
You need to compare Scripture with Scripture and get the original to compare with: kosmos is age, Jesus said; "My kingdom is not of this age". The disciples asked, in Matthew 24, "what shall be the sign of Thy coming and of the end of the age?

John 18:36
kosmoß
1) the world, the universe
2) the circle of the earth, the earth
3) the inhabitants of the earth, men, the human family
4) the ungodly multitude; the whole mass of men alienated from God, and therefore hostile to the cause of Christ
5) world affairs, the aggregate of things earthly
6) the whole circle of earthly goods, endowments riches, advantages, pleasures, etc, which although hollow and frail and fleeting, stir desire, seduce from God and are obstacles to the cause of Christ
7) any aggregate or general collection of particulars of any sort

Matthew 24:3
aion
1) for ever, an unbroken age, perpetuity of time, eternity
2) the worlds, universe
3) period of time, age

If Christ had meant age in John 18, he would have used aion instead of kosmos. The truth of the matter is that Christ was contrasting His kingdom against the physicallity of this earthly world.


Again, the Pharisees expected a physical kingdom:
Luke 17:20-21, "And being asked by the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God cometh, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation: neither shall they say, Lo, here! or, There! for lo, the kingdom of God is within you

The kingdom of God and Jesus Christ is that of a spiritual relationship with His creation. We have access to that today; not at some distant time.

-A
 
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yeshuasavedme

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In Isaiah 65, the prophecy of the New Heavens and the New earth is given, and the thousand Year reign of Sabbath Rest is told of as a prophetic forerunner of the eternal Rest to come, when the heavens and the earth are regenerated and all the seed of Adam is cut off, from the inheritance of the kingdom of God on this regenerated earth, as circumcision is the sign of, which is the eighth day of creation, the first Day of the New Beginning.

The description of the seventh Day Sabbath Rest of that thousand years follows the promise that He creates a regenerated New heavens and New earth, which is seen by John, in the Revelation of Jesus Christ, after this present heavens and earth is destroyed at the end of the thousand years.

It is much that is left out by Hidden Manna, to try to fit a false teaching that the Apostles and prophets never heard of, into the false teaching of preterism, which is a new religion invented only in the very recent past and with no biblical basis for it's false teachings and denials of all truths revealed in the oracles of God as given to His people ,called by His name, "Israel".

Isaiah 65, and the promise of the restoration of the literal descendents of Jacob, in the millennial reign;

8 Thus says the Lord:

"As the new wine is found in the cluster,
And one says, 'Do not destroy it,
For a blessing is in it,'
So will I do for My servants' sake,
That I may not destroy them all.
9 I will bring forth descendants from Jacob,
And from Judah an heir of My mountains;
My elect shall inherit it,
And My servants shall dwell there.
10 Sharon shall be a fold of flocks,
And the Valley of Achor a place for herds to lie down,
For My people who have sought Me.

11 "But you are those who forsake the Lord,
Who forget My holy mountain,
Who prepare a table for *Gad,
And who furnish a drink offering for *Meni.
12 Therefore I will number you for the sword,
And you shall all bow down to the slaughter;
Because, when I called, you did not answer;
When I spoke, you did not hear,
But did evil before My eyes,
And chose that in which I do not delight."

13 Therefore thus says the Lord God:

"Behold, My servants shall eat,
But you shall be hungry;
Behold, My servants shall drink,
But you shall be thirsty;
Behold, My servants shall rejoice,
But you shall be ashamed;
14 Behold, My servants shall sing for joy of heart,
But you shall cry for sorrow of heart,
And wail for grief of spirit.
15 You shall leave your name as a curse to My chosen;
For the Lord God will slay you,
And call His servants by another name;
16 So that he who blesses himself in the earth
Shall bless himself in the God of truth;
And he who swears in the earth
Shall swear by the God of truth;
Because the former troubles are forgotten,
And because they are hidden from My eyes.

The Glorious New Creation -the regenerated heavens and earth is spoken of prophetically, here, which John saw, in spirit, regenerated after the thousand year reign of the Sabbath rest =Day of the LORD;

17 "For behold, I create new heavens and a new earth;
And the former shall not be remembered or come to mind.

And the forerunner, the Millennial Day of Rest, the Sabbath for this present creation, in which Israel is restored and the blessed of the LORD populate the earth for that thousand years;
18 But be glad and rejoice forever in what I create;
For behold, I create Jerusalem as a rejoicing,
And her people a joy.
19 I will rejoice in Jerusalem,
And joy in My people;
The voice of weeping shall no longer be heard in her,
Nor the voice of crying.


20 "No more shall an infant from there live but a few days,
Nor an old man who has not fulfilled his days;
For the child shall die one hundred years old,
But the sinner being one hundred years old shall be accursed.
21 They shall build houses and inhabit them;
They shall plant vineyards and eat their fruit.
22 They shall not build and another inhabit;
They shall not plant and another eat;
For as the days of a tree, so shall be the days of My people,
And My elect shall long enjoy the work of their hands.
23 They shall not labor in vain,
Nor bring forth children for trouble;
For they shall be the descendants of the blessed of the Lord,
And their offspring with them.


24 "It shall come to pass
That before they call, I will answer;
And while they are still speaking, I will hear.
25 The wolf and the lamb shall feed together,
The lion shall eat straw like the ox,
And dust shall be the serpent's food.
They shall not hurt nor destroy in all My holy mountain,"
Says the Lord.

In Psalm 37, the promise is that the wicked will be no more -and in Matthew 24, Jesus promises that they shall pass away, just as in the days of Noah, and promised as in Psalm 37.
The 'Blessed of the LORD' enter the millennial kingdom on earth, unregenerated in body but born from above in spirit; and have children, some of which die as sinners, but not as the spiritual seed of the devil, who is bound for that thousand years.

 
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Hidden Manna

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yeshuasavedme said:
It is much that is left out by Hidden Manna, to try to fit a false teaching that the Apostles and prophets never heard of, into the false teaching of preterism, which is a new religion invented only in the very recent past and with no biblical basis for it's false teachings and denials of all truths revealed in the oracles of God as given to His people ,called by His name, "Israel".

Early Church Preterist Statements

There were a number of early writer and Church Fathers who made significant preterist statements. One doesn’t have to look too closely to fing some real gems. They have been there all along. We just didn’t recognize them as preterist statements. And it is a matter of fact, that it is not true that all of the early fathers were futurist, as many today seem to think. All it takes is some digging in the early writings of the church fathers and do a little research to learn the truth of the matter. The church fathers back that far did not write much about Jerusalem, but some of them did. We will look at some early preterist statements then we will tack a look at the decisive turning point that happen in the second half of the second century.

Here are just some sample of a few of the earliest preterist statements.

Clement of Alexandria (A.D. 153-193-217), in The Stromata, or Miscellanies, Book 1 page 329, in The Ante- Nicene Fathers, vol. 2, placed the abomination of desolation of Daniel’s 70th week prophecy, in the time of Nero. He said: ‘ in the one week; was He Lord. The half of the week Nero and in the half of the week he was taken away, and Otho, and Gaiba, and Vitallus. And Vespasian rose to the supreme power, and destroyed Jerusalem, and desolated the Holy place.”

Earlier ever that Clement of Alexandria, was Clement of Rome, who wrote to James and told him what Peter had to the Jews, thusly: “ ‘ For we; said I, ‘have ascertained beyond doubt that God is much rather displeased with the sacrifices which you offer the time of sacrifices having now passed away; and because ye will not acknowledge that the time for offering victims is now past, therefore the temple shall be destroyed, and the abomination of desolation shall stand in the holy place; and then the Gospel shall be preached to the Gentiles for a testimony against you....; “When I had thus spoken, the whole multitude of the priests were in a rage, because I had foretold to them the overthrow of the temple...;’ (Clement, p 94, vol. 8, The Ante-Nicene Fathers).

Clement of Alexandria, Tertullian (145-220) told of how the coming of Christ and the destruction of Jerusalem was a fulfillment of predictions that had been made in Daniel 9:26. He said: Accordingly the times must be inquired into of the predicted and future nativity of the Christ, and of His passion and of the extermination of the city of Jerusalem, that is, its devastation. For Daniel says, that ‘both the holy city and the holy place are exterminated together with the coming Leader, and that the pinnacle is destroyed unto ruin; And so the times of the coming Christ, the leader, must be inquired into, which we shall trace in Daniel; and, after computing them, shall prove Him to be come, even on the ground of the times prescribed, of the consequences which were ever announced as to follow His advent; in order that we may believe all to have been as well fulfilled as foreseen. “In such wise, therefore, did Daniel predict concerning Him, as to show both when and in what time He was to set the nations free; and how, after the passion of the Christ, that city had to be exterminated;, (The Ante-Nicene Fathers, vol. 3, p. 158).

Tertullian was also a preterist in his interpretations of Zechariah 14:4. He said, “ ‘But at night He went out to the Mount of Olives; For thus had Zechariah pointed out: ‘And His feet shall stand in that day on the Mount of Olives; “ (The Ante-Nicene Fathers, vol. 3, p. 417). As one can easily see, the preterist position was taught by various writer clear back to the time of the apostles.

There were a number of early writers who made significant preterist statements (i.e. Eusebius, Athanasius, Origen, Melito, and Odes of Solomon etc). (Eusebius and Athanasius). These two writers were very much involved in the formation of the Nicene Creed. They are not on the fringe of Christian leadership but it is not said these two writers are “inconsistent with the overwhelming majority of opinion in the early church. Here are a few examples of preterist statements found in their writings. All the emphasis are mine.

Eusebius says that the abomination of desolation (i.e.the antichrist, man of sin and beast of Revelation) occurred at the time of the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 A.D “...(Eusebius’ Esslesiastical History, Book 3, Ch5).

Eusebius records the statement that James (brother of Jesus, writer of the book of James) made just before (c. 63 A.D.) He was pushed off the temple to the pavement below when he was being martyred for his faith in Jerusalem: “Why do ye ask me respecting Jesus the Son of Man? He is now sitting in the heavens, on the right hand of great Power, and is about to come on the clouds of heaven.” (Eusebius’ Ecclesiastical History, Book 2 Ch. 23:cf James 5:8,9)

Eusebius says that the abomination of desolation ) i.e. the antichrist, man of sin and beast of Revelation) occurred at the time of the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD: “...these facts, as well as the whole tenor of the war, and each particular of its progress, when finally the abomination of desolation, according to the prophetic declaration, stood in the very temple of God, so celebrated of old, but which now was approaching its total downfall and final destruction by fire; all this, I say any one that wishes may see accurately stated in the history written by Josephus.” (Eusebius’ Ecclesiastical History, Book 3, Ch.5

After quoting sections of Matt, 29:19-21; Lk 19:41ff and Lk. 21:20,23,24, Eusebius says this about the destruction of Jerusalem: “All this occurred in this manner, in the second year of the reigh of Vespasian [70 .D., according to the predictions of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.... On comparing the declarations of our Saviour with the other part of [Josephus’] work, where he describes the whole war, how can one fail to acknowledge and wonder at the truth divine and extraordinary foreknowledge and prediction of our Saviour?” (Eusebius’ Esslesiastical History, Book 3, Ch7)

Eusebius also declares that the Great Commission had been accomplished by the time Jerusalem was destroyed in A.D 70 (cf. Matt. 24:14): “Of whom [Christ], indeed at this very time, ‘the sound of the holy apostles went throughout all the earth, and their words to the ends of the world.’” (Eusebius; Ecclesiastical History, Book 3, Ch. 8 cf. Rom. 10:18; Col.1:23)

Athanasius: “For now that He has come to our real, and taken up his abode in one body among His peers, henceforth the whole conspiracy of the enemy against mankind is checked, and the corruption of death which before was prevailing against them is done away. For the race of men had gone to ruin, had not the Lord and Saviour of all, the Son of God, come among us to meet the end of death.” (Athanasius’ On the Incarnation of the Word , Section 9 Verse 4; cf.1 Cor. 15:21-26)

In reference to the Jews’ rejection of Jesus as the Massiah and their interpretation of the seventy weeks of Daniel 9, Athanasius has this to say: “Perhaps with regard to the other “prophecies” they may be able even to find excuses and to put off what is written to a future time. But what can they say to this, or can they face it at all? Where not only is the Christ referred to, but He that is to be anointed is declared to be not man simply, but Holy of Holies; and “Jerusalem is to stand till His coming, and thenceforth, prophet and vision cease in Israel.” (Athanasius; On the Incarnation of the Word, Section 39 Verse 3; cf. Dan. 9:24ff).

Athanasius: “FOR He raised up the falling, healed the sick, satisfied those who were hungry, and filled the poor, and, what is more wonderful, raised us all from the dead; having abolished death, He has brought us from affliction and sighing to the rest and gladness of this feast, a joy which reacheth even to heaven.... how must all its hosts joy and exult, as they...look on sinners while they repent...and finally on the enemy who lies weakened, lifeless, bound hand and foot, so the we may mock at him; ‘Where is thy victory, O Death? were is thy sting, O Grave?’ Let us then sing unto the Lord a song of victory .. The Lord gives to them at the right hand, saying, ‘Come ye blessed, inherit the kingdom prepared for you.’ Wherefore let us not celebrate the feast after an earthly manner, but as keeping festival in heaven with the angels.” (Athanasius’ The Feast Letters, Letter VI. No. 9-12

What Preterist Statements Did These Men Say?
Eusebius says that the apostolic writings about eschatology were meant to be taken in a mystical or figurative way. James seemed certain that Christ was about to come on the clouds of heaven in 63 A.D ( James 5:8-9) The abomination of desolation (the beast, antichrist or man of sin) occurred at the destruction of Jerusalem in A.D.70. They knew Matt. 24 and all of its parallel and related passages had been fulfilled at 70 A.D. The Great Commission given to the apostles was fulfilled just before most of them died in the late 60’s. They knew Christ had conquered “the last enemy” (death). Prophecy and vision )inspired revelation) were to cease at 70 A.D. when Jerusalem was destroyed. The OT things were types of the reality that Christ brought through His work, and Christ left nothing unfulfilled. They knew that the feast we celebrate now is a spiritual communion with God in the heavenly spiritual realm, not just a physical feast, and that now we are to sing the new songs in the Jerusalem, which is above. The “Jerusalem above” was already accessible. They knew they had been raised from the dead and had inherited the kingdom.

Now Listen to these suggestions by Kurt Aland....as we discover a decisive turning point in the second half of the second century a watershed decisive for the development of the Christian church. Think deeply on these things.

It was the definite conviction not only of Paul, but of all Christians of that time, that they themselves would experience the return of the Lord; The Apocalypse expresses the fervent waiting for the end within the circles in which the writer lived-not an expectation that will happen at some unknown point x in time, but one in the immediate present. If we browse through the writings of that period we observe that this expectation of the end continued. In fact, we also find ti the writing of the first half of the second century sufficient evidence to indicate that the expectation of the Parousia was by no means at an end then.

At the end of the Didache (“the teaching of the twelve apostles”), from the time shortly after 100, there is, for example, an apocalyptic chapter which corresponds completely in its outline to the Synoptic apocalypse in Mark 13 (and the parallel chapters in the other Synoptic Gospels.); here we can only very cautiously say that it used the same words, but that its content is imperceptibly in the process of change. It quite similar to the Epistle of Barnabas which was written a little later that the Didache, where we read: (The day is near in which everything will perish together with the evil. The Lord and his recompense are near).

Again and again the old expressions echo. They echo apparently almost unchanged, but (“doubt about the imminence of the Lord’s return is increasingly mixed with them until around the middle of the second century when the Shepherd of Hermas thinks he has found a solution and expresses it with great thoroughness and emphaisi: the Parousia-the Lord’s return-has been postponed for the sake of Christians them selves. The building of the tower has not been stopped,) it is only temporarily suspended. Therefore and this is the warning of the Shepherd of Hermas, on account of which the entire work was really written do good works for your purification, for if you delay too long, the construction of the tower may be finished and you will not be included as stones built into it.

The thought of a postponement of the Parousia appears all through 2 Clement but here it is expressly mentioned for the first time. Thus, about the middle of the second century, a decisive turning point occurs one which can be compared in significance to all other great turning points, including the Reformation. Obviously, we cannot fix this turning point precisely at the year 150, for it took a while until the though caught hold everywhere. But a development does begin with the Shepherd of Hermas which could not be stopped-a development at the end of which we stand today. As soon as the thought of a postponement of the Parousia was uttered once and indeed not only incidentally, but thoroughly presented in an entire writing-it developed its (own life and power).

At first, people looked at it as only a brief postponement, as the Shepherd of Hermas clearly expresses. But soon, as the end of the world did not occur, it was conceived of as a longer and longer period, until finally-this is today’s situation nothing but the thought of a postponement exists in people’s consciousness. [Kurt Aland. A History of Christianity. (2 vols.) Fortress Press: 1985. Vol. 1,pp.89-102]

Above we have heard from a well-known students of Church history who pointed the middle of the second century as the time when a paradigm shift in eschatological concepts occurred. Did all these statements of history just come out of the thin air? These are pretty powerful statements, and they’re coming from someone who knows a decisive turning point” when he sees one.

These and other statements made by other students of Church history are not hidden in the dark all it takes is a little research to learn the truth of the matter. Now it is up you to show me all these men were wrong. Please show me were any early church father says any of these early Church Fathers who made these significant preterist statements were wrong. I will be looking forward to see what you come up with against the understanding of these men in early church history and the same time.
 
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