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From WOF to simplicity

Simon Peter

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Senator Grassley and the SENATE COMMISSION for all their digging could find NOTHING to charge anyone with. Don't hear anything about this in the news though do we? Why not? It doesn't sell well:
...

All other charges are just as unfounded. You can twist anything you want to make it sound like anything you want. Kenneth Copeland's staff are blessed excited about helping others. It's the devil who's unhappy with what's going on.

Inside Edition ONLY makes money by selling sensationalism. Not good journalism by any stretch.

The lies about wof are propagated by those who don't know what they're talking about.

That's what the WoF leaders claim: That Grassley found NOTHING!

But it's an oft repeated LIE!

The Grassley report was never a criminal investigation, and was without the power of subpenas. Copeland (for example) did not cooperate in providing information; therefore the investigation had to rely on publicly divulged information and third party testimony.

Grassley did not have enough evidence to charge people with crimes.

But Grassley did find patterns of greed, self interest, cronyism and nepotism. Huge sums of money, huge houses, jets, cars, shady deals and loans.

Grassley may not have proven that Copeland broke US law, but he did prove that Copeland broke God's law.

But don't take my word for it, read the Grassley report on Copeland right here:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/28868437/Temp/Grassley report on Copeland 01-5-11[1].pdf


peace,
Simon
 
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hopeinGod

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The WOF error is meant to provide one thing, the overflow of donations to those who preach it. Immense fortunes are still able to be had by such false kingdom builders, those who shout their perceived entitlements and broadcast their beguiling message to the unsuspecting, especially to those in debt and without healthcare insurance. Reach out to the vulnerable, they do, and do it well, and take up offerings from those folks who struggle most. A dollar here, another dollar there, then they move on to other vulnerable masses to fill their heritical coffers with even more filthy lucre. It's a system made by the ambitious and those with a strong love of money. Copeland came in at the right time, as did the others, and there are still those who think the sort of vulnerability those men had all about them still exists today. But, slowly, the church is becoming wise to these serpents, these wolves in sheeps clothing.
 
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Willie T

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All you haters will have to excuse me....... but if someone is following a shyster because of him promising riches, what does that say about the true intent of the one you claim is being duped?

It would seem they are not "seeking first the kingdom of God". So why are you guys getting so upset about birds of a feather flocking together..... unless you think you should be getting some of the birdseed? And I sure hope that isn't the case.
 
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Truthfrees

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This is NOT a legitimate report from a government site:

"But don't take my word for it, read the Grassley report on Copeland right here: "
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...-11%5B1%5D.pdf


Dropbox user content . com? Come on you guys.

The lies about wof are propagated by those who don't know what they're talking about.

"These speak evil of whatever they do not know." - Jude 1:10
 
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Truthfrees

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Is there any scripture for doing without? NO.

Here's a FEW scriptures for abundance though. There's too many post them all:

"My God shall supply all your need according to His riches in glory by Christ Jesus." - Philippians 4:19

"Beloved, I pray that you may prosper in all things and be in health, just as your soul prospers." - 3 John 1:2

"Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us (for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree”), that the blessing of Abraham might come upon the Gentiles in Christ Jesus, that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith." - Galatians 3:13-14

“Ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you. For everyone who asks receives, and he who seeks finds, and to him who knocks it will be opened." - Matthew 7:7-8, Luke 11:9-10

"Then Jesus answered and said to her, “O woman, great is your faith! Let it be to you as you desire.” - Matthew 15:28

“Again I say to you that if two of you agree on earth concerning anything that they ask, it will be done for them by My Father in heaven." - Matthew 18:19

"And whatever things you ask in prayer, believing, you will receive.” Matthew 21:22

"Therefore I say to you, whatever things you ask when you pray, believe that you receive them, and you will have them." - Mark 11:24

"And whatever you ask in My name, that I will do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. If you ask anything in My name, I will do it." - John 14:13-14

"If you abide in Me, and My words abide in you, you will ask what you desire, and it shall be done for you." - John 15:7

"You did not choose Me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit, and that your fruit should remain, that whatever you ask the Father in My name He may give you." - John 15:16

“And in that day you will ask Me nothing. Most assuredly, I say to you, whatever you ask the Father in My name He will give you. Until now you have asked nothing in My name. Ask, and you will receive, that your joy may be full." - John 16:23-24

"Now this is the confidence that we have in Him, that if we ask anything according to His will, He hears us. And if we know that He hears us, whatever we ask, we know that we have the petitions that we have asked of Him." - 1 John 5:14-15

"Beloved, I pray that you may prosper in all things and be in health, just as your soul prospers." - 3 John 1:2

"Then the Lord your God will bring you to the land which your fathers possessed, and you shall possess it. He will prosper you and multiply you more than your fathers." - Deuteronomy 30:5

"Only be strong and very courageous, that you may observe to do according to all the law which Moses My servant commanded you; do not turn from it to the right hand or to the left, that you may prosper wherever you go." - Joshua 1:7

"If they obey and serve Him, They shall spend their days in prosperity, And their years in pleasures." - Job 36:11

"He shall be like a tree Planted by the rivers of water, That brings forth its fruit in its season, Whose leaf also shall not wither; And whatever he does shall prosper." - Psalm 1:3

"Let them shout for joy and be glad, Who favor my righteous cause; And let them say continually, “Let the Lord be magnified, Who has pleasure in the prosperity of His servant.” " - Psalm 35:27

"Delight yourself also in the Lord, And He shall give you the desires of your heart. Commit your way to the Lord, Trust also in Him, And He shall bring it to pass." - Psalm 37:4-5

"God sets the solitary in families; He brings out those who are bound into prosperity." - Psalm 68:6
 
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Truthfrees

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The only "proof" you give of Pastors and churches fleecing the sheep is a list that has all kinds of churches listed but not ONE wof church:

"There are WOF Brazilians who have made billions on this godless error he also preaches." The Richest Pastors In Brazil - Forbes

The lies about wof are propagated by those who don't know what they're talking about.

"These speak evil of whatever they do not know." - Jude 1:10
 
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random person

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The only "proof" you give of Pastors and churches fleecing the sheep is a list that has all kinds of churches listed but not ONE wof church:

"There are WOF Brazilians who have made billions on this godless error he also preaches." The Richest Pastors In Brazil - Forbes

The lies about wof are propagated by those who don't know what they're talking about.

"These speak evil of whatever they do not know." - Jude 1:10




2 Timothy 4:3

For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;

Titus 1:9-11

Holding fast the faithful word as he hath been taught, that he may be able by sound doctrine both to exhort and to convince the gainsayers.

For there are many unruly and vain talkers and deceivers, specially they of the circumcision:

Whose mouths must be stopped, who subvert whole houses, teaching things which they ought not, for filthy lucre's sake.


2 Peter 2:1-3

But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.

And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.

And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not.
 
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Simon Peter

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This is NOT a legitimate report from a government site:

"But don't take my word for it, read the Grassley report on Copeland right here: "
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...-11%5B1%5D.pdf


Dropbox user content . com? Come on you guys.

The lies about wof are propagated by those who don't know what they're talking about.

"These speak evil of whatever they do not know." - Jude 1:10


I personally downloaded this report from Senator Grassley's website a couple of years ago.

I give you my word that this is the actual report produced by Senator Grassley on Copeland.


EDIT:

Here you can download the same document on Copeland that I made available through my Dropbox account, but from Senator Grassley's government website (bottom of the page):

http://www.grassley.senate.gov/news/Article.cfm?customel_dataPageID_1502=30359

It's the identical damning report on Copeland that I posted earlier.

peace,
Simon
 
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hopeinGod

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How long will the blind be content with their blindness? Ignorance is bliss, it truly seems. Maintaining a hold on false doctrines by the bucketloads given to them by their honored leadership, those who love to have it so, they give until the pockets of their heroes abound while they get cleaned out of the means by which blessings were to come their way. No more money to give; hence, no means to gain their expected hundredfold return.

It is a true case of the blind leading the blind and both are falling into the ditch, for, without Scriptural balance they rebuke the devil for anything that comes their way that doesn't have the mark of blessing and success written on. The principle of judgment is a mystery to these folks, as is the threefold work of salvation (justification, sanctification and glorification) which are three distinctly separate in/outworkings of a believer.

They have mixed Scriptures that pertain to sanctification and placed them in with justification, and therefore they proclaim believers can lose their salvation. To them, they remain justified by their works, not the work of God in them which initially took place during the moment they were justified. In short, they strain on a gnat and swallow a camel.
 
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Simon Peter

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Here's just one excerpt from Senator Grassley's report on Copeland:


Several former employees of Kenneth Copeland Ministries indicated that KCM used intimidation in an attempt to keep informants from speaking to the Committee. Former employees were sincerely afraid to provide statements for fear of being sued since they signed confidentiality agreements.

Employees were contacted by KCM attorneys after the initiation of the Committee investigation and reminded that they signed a confidentiality agreement agreeing not to disclose any information concerning KCM.

One former employee stated the following, “The Copelands employ guerrilla tactics to keep their employees silent. We are flat out told and threatened that if we talk, God will blight our finances, strike our families down, and pretty much afflict us with everything evil and unholy. Rather, God will allow Satan to do those things to us because we have stepped out from under His umbrella of protection, by “touching God’s anointed Prophet”.

Further, employees are encouraged to shun and treat badly anyone who dares speak out.”



I chose this excerpt because it so clearly exposes the 'Word of Faith' culture. Even on this forum we
get similar threats and misquoted scriptures when we dare to speak out against the 'prosperity gospel'.

peace,
Simon
 
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Truthfrees

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Thanks for the legitimate link.
http://www.grassley.senate.gov/news/...eID_1502=30359


In future, please present LINKS and PAGE NUMBERS of the specific information you claim to be quoting so that anyone can see for themselves what was really said in context.

From page 1 of the EMIC / Copeland report.

Please note from Grassley's own report, KCM chose to follow the law and the advice of their lawyers.

IF Grassley could not provide enough LEGITIMATE evidence to the IRS to get them to initiate an investigation, it tells me the Grassley CIRCUS was ungrounded from start to finish.

IF the IRS would have initiated an investigation, Grassley could have requested EVERYTHING he wanted from the IRS.

IF KCM would have waived their rights, then NOTHING would have been subject to the laws of this land. NO ONE would have been subject to perjury charges.

IF everything went through legal channels, PERJURY charges would be leveled at anyone found guilty.

A VERY GOOD reason to follow the law and the advice of your lawyers.

SO AGAIN, you guys are speaking evil about things you know nothing about.

You're grasping at straws to convince people that your strange ideas about WOF are real.

You really should get up and get going for the LORD and doing something to glorify HIM. You're being lead around by the nose, into bitterness and anger.

(Click Copeland to see report for yourself.)

Staff Overview of EMIC/Kenneth Copeland PAGE 1.
Introduction

The Committee‟s initial letter was addressed to Kenneth Copeland Ministries. In its response however, the organization responded that Kenneth Copeland Ministries, Inc. (“KCM”) is an assumed business name, as registered with the Texas Secretary of State, for Eagle Mountain International Church, Inc. (“EMIC”). Thus, KCM does not appear to be a separate entity from EMIC and, therefore, EMIC and KCM, while used interchangeably, are considered by staff as one and the same for purposes of this review.

Generally speaking, EMIC/KCM was not responsive to the Committee‟s request for information. Throughout their written response to questions posed by the Committee, EMIC/KCM, through their legal counsel stated, “Based on constitutionally and statutorily based privacy and confidentiality concerns, the Church respectfully declines to provide the detailed accounting requested. The Church understands that the IRS has the ability to request this information from the Church through a church tax inquiry conducted in accordance to section 7611 of the Code, and that the Senate Finance Committee would have the ability to obtain this information from the IRS through a request pursuant to section 6103(f) of the Code. Proceeding within these well-established statutory frameworks would allow Senator Grassley to obtain the information requested without compromising the legitimate constitutionality and statutorily based privacy and confidentiality concerns of the Church in a disparate manner from other churches that enjoy these constitutional and statutory protections.”

In April of 2008, John Copeland, Kenneth Copeland‟s son, stood in front of the IRS office in Dallas, Texas, while CBS News filmed him requesting that the IRS initiate an inquiry of EMIC/KCM.

In another response to the inquiry via the media, John stated the following when questioned about EMIC/KCM‟s response to the Committee, “KCM‟s response contained detailed information about non-church related questions but did not provide certain private information about the ministry and operation of the church. We assured the Senator that KCM fully complies with all of its legal obligations. We also pointed out that anything KCM declined to provide Senator Grassley could easily be obtained by the IRS in a church inquiry where confidentiality and privacy would be maintained.”
 
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Truthfrees

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So far guys, the blindness has been on your side.

EVERY accusation you make against wof is falling flat.

You're the guys promoting lies and propaganda.

You believe all the nonsense you find on the internet.

You believe media circuses put on by media hounds like Grassley.

You'd be much better off in life if you'd read the bible cover to cover, talk with the LORD in fellowship prayer, go do the things HE told us to be doing, etc.

This witch-hunt serves only to embarrass yourself.

Thank you for providing links.

I will look at any legitimate links you provide in an attempt to help you see that you don't understand the truth about WOF.

This could all nicely be reconciled if you'd read your BIBLE and talk with the Lord in prayer fellowship.

You'd start to see for yourself what scripture says about healing, abundance, freedom, blessing, prosperity, salvation, righteousness, grace, etc.

That's what any genuine wof does: read scripture and ask the LORD GOD ALMIGHTY if it's REALLY true.

When we find out from the LORD it's true, then we ask HIM to show us how to receive what HE says is ours through CHRIST.

We've done more scripture study and prayer conversations with the LORD about HIS words than possibly the whole bunch of you angry dudes put together.

You wouldn't be so angry and bitter if you'd connect up with our LORD and SAVIOR in a meaningful way.
 
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Simon Peter

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Thanks for the legitimate link...


Look, I'm doing you a favour by pointing out that Copeland et al are ripping people like you off, so they can live in huge mansions and ride around in private jets and expensive cars.

It's not my money that's putting fuel in Copeland's jet, it's yours.

You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it think.

You send him a check and does he send you one back worth onehundredfold more? No, I didn't think so. You are the victim of a pyramid scheme. I will pray for you today, that the scales will fall off your eyes and you will see the deception.

Scripture actually says when you give to the poor God becomes indebted to you, but when you give to the rich (Copeland et al) you will only become poor.

I will reference the verses for you, as I doubt they teach them in your church:

Whoever is generous to the poor lends to the LORD, and he will repay him for his deed.
Proverbs 19:17 ESV

Whoever oppresses the poor to increase his own wealth, or gives to the rich, will only come to poverty.
Proverbs 22:16 ESV

I assure you that Copeland will come to poverty, in the next life.


peace,
Simon
 
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Truthfrees

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GOD bless all the Christians who treat all believers as family.

It's nice to fellowship with different Christians in a way that pleases the LORD.

"Behold, how good and how pleasant it is For brethren to dwell together in unity! 2 It is like the precious oil upon the head, Running down on the beard, The beard of Aaron, Running down on the edge of his garments.
3 It is like the dew of Hermon, Descending upon the mountains of Zion; For there the Lord commanded the blessing— Life forevermore." - Psalm 133:1-3

There is a anointing (precious oil) and blessing from the LORD when we walk in love and unity as we agree to disagree on our various beliefs.


God bless you who are peacemakers.

"Blessed are the merciful, For they shall obtain mercy.
8 Blessed are the pure in heart, For they shall see God.
9 Blessed are the peacemakers, For they shall be called sons of God.
10 Blessed are those who are persecuted for righteousness’ sake, For theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
11 “Blessed are you when they revile and persecute you, and say all kinds of evil against you falsely for My sake. 12 Rejoice and be exceedingly glad, for great is your reward in heaven, for so they persecuted the prophets who were before you." - Matthew 5:7-12
 
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Truthfrees

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You can bash Copeland till the cows come home, but you still have NO LEGITIMATE proof he's done anything wrong.

You and your angry buddies have a really bad case of the screaming meemies is all.

You don't seem to care to dig up the reports of all the money that goes to missions, orphanages, poverty areas, disaster areas, medical missions, evangelism, etc, etc, etc.

Why not?

Because that would prove COPELAND is an extremely extravagant GIVER.

He's given away FAR more money than he's ever been accused of keeping.

Your information comes from UN-reliable sources so far.

Show me a legit one. So far you've failed to do that.

A POLITICAL media hound like Grassley is FAR from legit, especially when the IRS did NOT back him up.

What does that tell you?

You angry dudes tell us to think?

Well you guys stop and think it through.

You're so blinded with rage you can't see the forest for the trees.

You guys attack us in the most ungodly way, and we're still kind to you.

Who's the blind ones here?

One poster said, what are you guys so hateful for?

It's true, look at yourselves.

We're not angry or hateful.

We don't bash you, yet you resort to un-Christian tactics.

Look through your posts to the kinds of things you angry dudes say to us.

It's not the HOLY SPIRIT speaking through you.

Do you think ANYONE would take seriously ANYTHING you angry dudes say?

You appear desperate and grasping at straws.

The Holy Spirit doesn't lead people to behave the way you do.

Best deal with the log in your eye before going after a speck in someone else's eye.
 
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Truthfrees

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If Copeland REALLY did what these FICTITIOUS employees and former employes say he's done, YOU BET Grassley would have procured an IRS investigation.

The IRS would have taken GENUINE witnesses statements and started an investigation right away.

The IRS would have protected the identities of these witness, so the claims of fear and intimidation are FALSE.

This proves ALL the claims made against Copeland were false.

Goliath falls again.

David is vindicated.

The LORD GOD ALMIGHTY gets all the glory.
 
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Truthfrees

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Just to recap:

You angry dudes believe Grassley (political media hound, failed commission head), Inside Edition (sensationalism is the ONLY way they make money), etc.

We believe Copeland (gives millions to the LORD'S work for over 42 years, changed our lives for the better with his ministry FOR REAL).

You believe your eyes and your experience OVER GOD'S WORD.

We believe the LORD and HIS words OVER anything else.

We study scripture looking for truth, you study the internet looking for truth.

You want us to take what you have to say about ANYTHING seriously?

You want to help us with your internet nonsense?

We want to help you with the LORD'S words.
 
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hopeinGod

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It is absolutely true that WOF doctrine incorporates a belief that a person can lose his/her salvation. It is also perfectly true that they mix verses that pertain to the daily inward work God does through the obedience of the believer, known as sanctification, with the truth that by grace are we justified.

Just because the word "save" or "saved" is in a Scripture does not mean it always relates to justification. We are made in God's image, threefold beings. Every person has a spirit, soul and a body, and each of those three parts are transformed by separate workings. The spirit of man is made perfect and quickened when he is justified. The soul or mind, emotions, temperament, and heart is perfected or matured day by day as one denies the flesh, renews his mind, puts on Christ, mortifies the deeds of the flesh, lays aside every weight of sin, etc. The body will be made perfect in the end when we each put on incorruption.

Justification is when one is free from the penalty of sin.
Sanctification is the working in the believer toward the removal of the power of sin.
Glorification will be when we will one day be free from the very presence of sin.

WOF doctrine mixes these truths by blending the first two works of salvation, and to keep folks on track what is manufactured are commandments of men: speak certain verses so many times each day, confess to possess, give to get, etc.

Instead, we are to deny ourselves, take up our crosses, and get to know Him foremost, not run after entitlements as if they were the end-all.
 
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now faith

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It is absolutely true that WOF doctrine incorporates a belief that a person can lose his/her salvation. It is also perfectly true that they mix verses that pertain to the daily inward work God does through the obedience of the believer, known as sanctification, with the truth that by grace are we justified.

Just because the word "save" or "saved" is in a Scripture does not mean it always relates to justification. We are made in God's image, threefold beings. Every person has a spirit, soul and a body, and each of those three parts are transformed by separate workings. The spirit of man is made perfect and quickened when he is justified. The soul or mind, emotions, temperament, and heart is perfected or matured day by day as one denies the flesh, renews his mind, puts on Christ, mortifies the deeds of the flesh, lays aside every weight of sin, etc. The body will be made perfect in the end when we each put on incorruption.

Justification is when one is free from the penalty of sin.
Sanctification is the working in the believer toward the removal of the power of sin.
Glorification will be when we will one day be free from the very presence of sin.

WOF doctrine mixes these truths by blending the first two works of salvation, and to keep folks on track what is manufactured are commandments of men: speak certain verses so many times each day, confess to possess, give to get, etc.

Instead, we are to deny ourselves, take up our crosses, and get to know Him foremost, not run after entitlements as if they were the end-all.

1 ok justification

2 ok sanctification

3 wrong glorification is not in the sweet by and by or when we all get to heaven.
We do not set helplessly saying the world is bad I can't. Help it.
No we give God honor and glory by having faith in him that he will give us the power to carry out his Will on earth.

Faith is first celestial,then temporal.
If it did not produce in the temporal Jesus never would have spent so much time trying to teach it to the faithless generation.
Everything we do should glorify God now and forevermore.
 
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now faith

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So far guys, the blindness has been on your side.

EVERY accusation you make against wof is falling flat.

You're the guys promoting lies and propaganda.

You believe all the nonsense you find on the internet.

You believe media circuses put on by media hounds like Grassley.

You'd be much better off in life if you'd read the bible cover to cover, talk with the LORD in fellowship prayer, go do the things HE told us to be doing, etc.

This witch-hunt serves only to embarrass yourself.

Thank you for providing links.

I will look at any legitimate links you provide in an attempt to help you see that you don't understand the truth about WOF.

This could all nicely be reconciled if you'd read your BIBLE and talk with the Lord in prayer fellowship.

You'd start to see for yourself what scripture says about healing, abundance, freedom, blessing, prosperity, salvation, righteousness, grace, etc.

That's what any genuine wof does: read scripture and ask the LORD GOD ALMIGHTY if it's REALLY true.

When we find out from the LORD it's true, then we ask HIM to show us how to receive what HE says is ours through CHRIST.

We've done more scripture study and prayer conversations with the LORD about HIS words than possibly the whole bunch of you angry dudes put together.

You wouldn't be so angry and bitter if you'd connect up with our LORD and SAVIOR in a meaningful way.

Amen and amen.

How much of God's time is wasted on you tube trying to prove some silly out of context sound bite.
Instead of accusing the saints they should be doing what God has called them to do!
If they are worried they can seek comfort in knowing God will judge.
 
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