Hi,
Yes. I have the same problem that you mentioned with Catholics.
To be all inclusive, each group that I work with has a problem with God, in one area or another one.
At least, so far that is true.
LOVE,
Upvote
0
Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.
I meant that Catholics are famous for getting their theology from Church tradition, and paying relatively little heed to the Bible. Admittedly things have improved a bit since Vatican II.
However, God's omniscience has been a given of Christian theology since the beginning of time.
I meant that Catholics are famous for getting their theology from Church tradition, and paying relatively little heed to the Bible. Admittedly things have improved a bit since Vatican II.
However, God's omniscience has been a given of Christian theology since the beginning of time.
Hi,
My first reference provided no proof, rather it provided an interpretation of Omniscence. A personal one.
http://www.allaboutgod.com/omniscience-of-god.htm
Yes, I will keep looking.
LOVE,
Hi,
There is an 'or' statement there. That 'or' statement takes their description, from absolute, to a maybe statement.
That God is omniscient or possesses the most perfectknowledge of all things, follows from His infiniteperfection.
Further, in that same reference, www.newadvent.org, there is no reference for the word omniscient.
Thanks, and I will keep looking also, to try and find proof of omniscience.
LOVE,
The right hand side of the or statement is Catholic type lingo for the left hand side.
Hi,
Really? I'll look again.
LOVE,
The right hand side of the or statement is Catholic type lingo for the left hand side.
From the New Advent article:
"That God knows infallibly and from eternity what, for example, a certain man, in the exercise of free will, will do or actually does in any given circumstances, and what he might or would actually have done in different circumstances is beyond doubt — being a corollary from the eternal actuality of Divine knowledge. So to speak, God has not to wait on the contingent and temporal event of the man's free choice to know what the latter's action will be; He knows it from eternity. But the difficulty is: how, from our finite point of view, to interpret and explain the mysterious manner of God's knowledge of such events without at the same time sacrificing the free will of the creature."
The freewill question is troubling, but I think this is not a well built scenario to address it. It conflates knowledge of events with control of such events.Hello everyone. I would like to discuss freewill, and whether such a thing is possible Scientifically, Logically, and according to Scripture. I will start with Logic.
I have a choice between A or B. God knows that I will choose A. By my freewill I choose B. Please explain. Thank you all and God bless you.
The freewill question is troubling, but I think this is not a well built scenario to address it. It conflates knowledge of events with control of such events.
Here's an analogy. Say I hate fish, but love chicken. Seriously, fish is just the worst thing ever to me. I just find it gross. Not only that, but I'm allergic to boot. I'm invited to a wedding and they ask me if I would like the chicken or the fish. The choice is still mine. I have free will and could check the box next to fish. Now, if my wife sees the invite before me, she will certainly know what I will choose even though she is not in any way abridging my ability to chose.
One could argue that the architect of those choices may be functionally removing those choices and subverting my ability to exercise free will. The bride to be might know about my fish allergy and be aware that by going with chicken and fish as options I can really only choose chicken. That is where the free will argument gets interesting to me. It means that if God has perfect foreknowledge of future events and intercedes to shape those events, by extension he is choosing the precise outcomes to include those choices we think are our own.
From the New Advent article:
"That God knows infallibly and from eternity what, for example, a certain man, in the exercise of free will, will do or actually does in any given circumstances, and what he might or would actually have done in different circumstances is beyond doubt — being a corollary from the eternal actuality of Divine knowledge. So to speak, God has not to wait on the contingent and temporal event of the man's free choice to know what the latter's action will be; He knows it from eternity. But the difficulty is: how, from our finite point of view, to interpret and explain the mysterious manner of God's knowledge of such events without at the same time sacrificing the free will of the creature."
Hi,
Am I missing something, or is there a great deal of uncertainty, in those articles on God and free will
Those articles are complex, and there is some internal opposition.
If I combine both free will there, and God's Knowledge, then there is no chance for anyone, including Satan to be Condemned for eternity, as all of us only strive for what is good, and what we call sin now is merely an immature state on our chosen path to perfect goodness.
LOVE,
Hi,
Why is: God knows I will choose A, a true and proven true statement?
LOVE,
The way I see it, God has a plan for all of us and has set up a long list of blessing to enrich our lives if we are receptive of him. He speaks through many outlets, sometimes people he's put in our path or incidents to jolt us back to what's important. The one way i think he talks to us is through our own conscience.
The Path one might be the one he hopes we will choose and he will send us twinges to give us a second thought about what direction we will take, but many time we want something so much that we ignore them. I that case God doesn't turn his back on us, but I can visualize him taking a seat and grabbing the popcorn.
And God knows what choice you will make, before you do.I have a choice between A or B.
In the most extreme interpretations, yes. However, this would not be an issue if God were omniscient of present and past events but was as subject as anyone to the nondeterminate nature of the future. Should natural forces be truly random at their lowest level as they appear to be due to the uncertainty principle, God would not have strict responsibility for all events.The problem with free will is that it goes beyond just God being an omniscient observer. He is also alleged to be the omnipotent creator. Therefore, if your definition of God includes those attributes, then God necessarily made all choices for everyone, the moment he chose to create this universe.
1) if you believe god's omniscience is not a factor, can you choose something he's not expecting (which would release dependence upon omniscience)?
2) adam & eve made choices already known (made) and only made from the available options. all options provided by the omniscient god who planned that they would make such choices. can you point to the free will in that scenario? In other words, if god planned everything that would ever happen (which is what many theists claim), he not only planned what choice they'd make, he provided the conditions and materials needed to 'force' them into that choice.
3) I believe that in the case of an Omni-everything god, we have merely the appearance of free will. Unless anyone is prepared to demonstrate how an omniscient, who planned everything that would ever happen, can be surprised.
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?