Freemasonry

[LastSeven]

I had in mind whoever designed and whoever approved the design of that building. I don't know who that is, but obviously anytime a building is designed whether it is a school or a restaurant or a masonic lodge, whoever is "in charge" approves the design.

So when you said I have no idea what I mean by "leadership" I thought you might enlighten me.

 

[yeshuasavedme]

President Washington was invited to dedicate the laying of the cornerstone. Masons did not build the monument, own it, or have any other part in the project.

That is not true. A Mason, Robert Mills, designed it -From wikipedia:

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Washington Monument​

For American Freemasons, one such example is their involvement with the building as well as the current refurbishing of the U.S. Washington Monument (not to be confused with the George Washington Masonic National Memorial).​

Authorized by Congress in 1833, construction was not begun until 1848. Architect Robert Mills (a Mason) was hired by the privately funded Washington National Monument Society to design a great column with a colonnade at its base. It was intended that the colonnade would have heroic statues of Washington and other revolutionary heroes and founding fathers. Financial considerations forced the abandonment of the colonnade and statues.​

On July 4, 1848, in an impressive ceremony attended by virtually every government official, M.W. Benjamin B. French, Grand Master, Grand Lodge of the District of Columbia, laid the cornerstone of this famous monument in a Masonic ceremony. The Washington National Monument Society, in charge of fund raising of the Monument, sensed the importance of Washington's Masonic membership and the great pride that masons felt across the country for their brother, Washington, the father of the country. The Society in 1851 and 1853 solicited members of the Masonic Order nationally through the Grand Lodges, to make contributions to the construction of the monument and some 250 Masonic Lodges contributed to the building of the Monument which contains 22 Masonic memorial stones contributed by 14 Grand Lodges and 8 individual Lodges. In addition, many other Masonic Orders including the Scottish Rite, Royal Arch, and Knights Templar contributed to the construction of the Monument.​

The first Masonic stone ascending the Monument is that of the Grand Lodge of the District of Columbia at the 50 foot landing. This earliest Masonic contribution was no doubt tied into the cornerstone laying ceremony where the Grand Lodge of D.C. presided. The United States National Park Service has a very extensive and interesting section of the Memorial's web site specifically devoted to the Masons' contributions and which shows all of the stones contributed by Masons.​

By 1854, the Washington National Monument Society had exhausted its funds and all work stopped at the 150 foot level. Turmoil within the Society, bad economic times, and the fury of the coming Civil War and its aftermath would halt monument construction for 22 years. There is still a discernible line between courses of differing stonework indicating the resumption of Monument construction funded now by Congress on August 2, 1876, and spurred on by the centennial celebration of the Declaration of Independence.​

Whether or not Society Secretary John Carrol Brent was moved by the letter from the Lodge in Roxbury, Massachusetts, he began to again send solicitations to Masonic bodies and other fraternal orders. Between July and September 1874 over two hundred pledges were received by the Society from every part of the country, chiefly from the Masons, Odd Fellows, Knights of Pythias, Red Men, and other fraternal bodies. On April 15, 1875, 211 Masonic lodges across the country responded to Brent's call including four Grand Lodges (Florida, Illinois, Massachusetts and Ohio, the last three giving $1000 each). The average lodge gave between 10 and 50 dollars. Mithras Lodges of Perfection, A.A.S.R, Washington D.C. made a contribution as did 24 Royal Arch Chapters and 5 Commandaries.​

Today, Masons are again involved in supporting the Washington Memorial with DC Masons having contributed in excess of $40,000 towards its renovation. It's just one more example of Masons honoring their country.​

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[Albion]

I had in mind whoever designed and whoever approved the design of that building.

Me neither, which is why I wouldn't start making reckless claims about the designers' intentions.

 

[yeshuasavedme]

President Washington was invited to dedicate the laying of the cornerstone. Masons did not build the monument, own it, or have any other part in the project as we know it. Mills design was not used.

My last post shows that your claim is not true, but more, here, shows further that your claims are not true:
Robert Mills (architect)

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Robert Mills Born August 12, 1781
Charleston, South Carolina Died March 3, 1855 (aged 73)
Washington D.C. Nationality American Occupation Architect, Engineer Spouse(s) Eliza Barnwell Smith Parents William Mills & Ann Taylor Robert Mills (August 12, 1781 – March 3, 1855), most famously known for designing the Washington Monument, is sometimes called the first native born American to become a professional architect, though Charles Bulfinch perhaps has a clearer claim to this honor. Mills studied in Charleston, South Carolina as a student of Irish-born architect James Hoban—who later designed the White House, which became the official home of US presidents. Both Hoban and Mills were Freemasons.

 

[Albion]

It's my understanding that Mills' proposed design was not the one used. If that's not the case, so what?

Do you have anything important to ask about Masonry that I can help with?

 

[LastSeven]

Albion, now that it's been established that the Washington Monument is a Masonic monument, does it not bother you, as a member, that a publically Masonic symbol so proudly and prominently displays the symbol of the Egyptian god Thoth?

 

[Albion]

Albion, I think your defensive posture is keeping you from objectively assessing the facts. The signs of Masonry are all over the Washington Monument

What did you have in mind? The tribute to God on the top?

and in fact the entire city of Washington DC.

Great.

 

[yeshuasavedme]

It's my understanding that Mills' proposed design was not the one used. If that's not the case, so what?

Do you have anything important to ask about Masonry that I can help with?

You are the one who claimed that "Masons did not build the monument, own it, or have any other part in the project as we know it. Mills design was not used." Freemason, Mills' design was started. When the later design was chosen to finish it with, a Freemason, John Marshall, chose the architect:

Wikipedia:
John Marshall was an active Freemason and served as Grand Master of the Grand Lodge of Ancient Free and Accepted Masons of the Commonwealth of Virginia.[77] ... the fourth Chief Justice of the United States (1801–1835)

Construction of the monument began in 1848, but was halted from 1854 to 1877, and finally completed in 1884. The hiatus in construction happened because of co-option by the Know Nothing party, a lack of funds, and the intervention of the American Civil War. A difference in shading of the marble, visible approximately 150 feet (46 m) or 27% up, shows where construction was halted. Its original design was by Robert Mills, an architect of the 1840s, but his design was modified significantly when construction resumed. The cornerstone was laid on July 4, 1848; the capstone was set on December 6, 1884, and the completed monument was dedicated on February 21, 1885.[7] It officially opened October 9, 1888.

The society held a competition for designs in 1836. The winner, architect Robert Mills, was well qualified for the commission. The citizens of Baltimore had chosen him to build a monument to Washington, and he had designed a tall Greek column surmounted by a statue of the President. Mills also knew the capital well, having just been chosen Architect of Public Buildings for Washington.
His design called for a tall obelisk—an upright, four-sided pillar that tapers as it rises—with a nearly flat top. He surrounded the obelisk with a circular colonnade, the top of which would feature Washington standing in a chariot. Inside the colonnade would be statues of 30 prominent Revolutionary War heroes.
One part of Mills' elaborate design that was built was the doorway surmounted by an Egyptian-style Winged sun. It was removed when construction resumed after 1884. A photo can be seen in The Egyptian Revival by Richard G. Carrot.[19]
Criticism of Mills' design and its estimated price tag of more than $1 million ($21,100,000 in 2010 US$[16])[20] caused the society to hesitate. Its members decided to start building the obelisk, and to leave the question of the colonnade for later. They believed that if they used the $87,000 they had already collected to start work, the appearance of the monument would spur further donations that would allow them to complete the project.

And finally, we read from Wikipedia that Robert Mills Obelisk continued to be built:
Story submitted a design for the Washington Monument, then under construction. Although the Washington National Monument Society concluded that his design seemed "vastly superior in artistic taste and beauty" to the obelisk already under construction, the obelisk continued to be built, and is what we see today as the monument.
In addition, Story sculpted a bronze statue of Joseph Henry on the Mall in Washington, D.C., the scientist who served as the Smithsonian Institution's first Secretary. His Libyan Sibyl is on display at the Smithsonian Museum of American Art.

 

[Albion]

As your own material makes clear, Mills' original design--as I said--was not used.

 

[yeshuasavedme]

As your own material makes clear, Mills' original design--as I said--was not used.

It was used, but altered. Read it again.
Also, the claim by you is that freemasons were not involved in the building or design of the Washington Monument, which features pagan deities as on other Masonic buildings.
The stuff I gathered from Wikipedia shows that Freemasons were involved up to their eyeballs, so to speak, from beginning to end, and ongoing today, even, in the restoration of it.

quote Yeshuasavedme:
And finally, we read from Wikipedia that Robert Mills Obelisk continued to be built:
Story submitted a design for the Washington Monument, then under construction. Although the Washington National Monument Society concluded that his design seemed "vastly superior in artistic taste and beauty" to the obelisk already under construction, the obelisk continued to be built, and is what we see today as the monument. ...


In addition, Story sculpted a bronze statue of Joseph Henry on the Mall in Washington, D.C., the scientist who served as the Smithsonian Institution's first Secretary. His Libyan Sibyl is on display at the Smithsonian Museum of American Art.

 

[Albion]

It was used, but altered. Read it again.

In other words, it wasn't used. I am familiar with that design, and this report somewhat generally describes what is was going to look like but probably not enough for you to picture it in your mind. It was quite different from the obelisk we know as the Washington Monument.

Washington Monument, which features pagan deities as on other Masonic buildings.

Just for fun, let's have pictures of those "pagan deities" in or on the Washington Monument so we can all see what you're talking about.

 

[yeshuasavedme]

In other words, it wasn't used. I am familiar with that design, and this report somewhat generally describes what is was going to look like but probably not enough for you to picture it in your mind. It was quite different from the obelisk we know as the Washington Monument.



Just for fun, let's have pictures of those "pagan deities" in or on the Washington Monument so we can all see what you're talking about.

The wikipedia sites, link by link, tell the story -and what a story it is, for those who want to follow the history of it.
Yes, the Mason architect's design was used, and the building was going on when circumstances caused the building of it to cease, not finished. The Mills design was begun, and altered when it was taken up again...that is why the stones are two colors, not matching on the lower and upper parts.
All the architects designs are shown on the wikipedia links, which are not all in one place.
The thing is that the Freemasons were involved in the total project from the beginning to the now, even, in the restoration of it.

You changed your point of attack in that you first said that Freemasons had nothing to do with the design or building of it, and by just checking wikipedia, we find they were involved in it from the beginning.

So that is the point. Take it or leave it; but it is what it is, and nothing you can say can change the facts.

 

[Albion]

The wikipedia sites, link by link, tell the story -and what a story it is, for those who want to follow the history of it.
Yes, the Mason architect's design was used

No, it wasn't.

and the building was going on when circumstances caused the building of it to cease, not finished. The Mills design was begun, and altered
when it was taken up again...that is why the stones are two colors, not matching on the lower and upper parts.

That's not the difference between the Mills original design and the finished product. Wikipedia shows both the Mills design and the finished design, and anyone can see that they are nothing alike.

The thing is that the Freemasons were involved in the total project from the beginning to the now, even, in the restoration of it.

No, they weren't. The structure wasn't built by the fraternity; it isn't ownned by the fraternity; it wasn't designed by the fraternity; and it isn't maintained by the fraternity. The only reason Masons have contributed so generously to the restoration of the monument is because it is a monument dedicated to George Washington, the most famous of American Masons.

You changed your point of attack in that you first said that Freemasons had nothing to do with the design or building of it, and by just checking wikipedia, we find they were involved in it from the beginning.

No. They weren't.

We're still waiting for your pictures of all those "pagan deities" that you imagine are adorning the Washington Monument.

 

[yeshuasavedme]

Why would a Christian be comfortable meeting in a room looking like an Egyptian temple? This is the Masonic George Washington memorial
File:Grotto Room Front.jpg - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Front of the Grotto Room of the George Washington Masonic National Memorial. Photo by Ben Schumin on March 8, 2003.

 

[Albion]

This is not a picture of any part of the Washington Monument.

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

This is not a picture of any part of the Washington Monument.

Not the Washington Monument but this: George Washington Masonic National Memorial - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[yeshuasavedme]

Not the Washington Monument but this: George Washington Masonic National Memorial - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Yes. I gave the link and said the same.
Thank you.

 

[Albion]

Not the Washington Monument but this: George Washington Masonic National Memorial - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Our friend claimed that the Washington Monument was filled with pagan emblems --"featured" them, she said-- and that this was, somehow, the fault of Masons. I asked for pictures of it, since she is eager to show us pictures. Of course, she was wrong about that, too, which is why she hasn't done so. This is, of course, a different building.

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

<snip> This is, of course, a different building.

Albeit a Masonic Lodge... full of pagan symbolism.

The "graven image" above the central throne? My guess would be that it's not that of our Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[Albion]

Albeit a Masonic Lodge... full of pagan symbolism.

It's not a lodge, Mark, and most of the government buildings in the USA have similar "symbolism." So what?

But if it were, it wouldn't be half as upsetting to the fundie wackos of the world who think that your church and mine aren't really Christian. After all, major parts of many historic Christian churches have been built in the shape and with the appearance of actual pagan temples and utilize emblems and devices used by pagans before there was a Christian church! Some have been built using parts of actual pagan worship centers.

Here, however, we have pictured a building owned by a fraternity that is not a religion and the emblems are just historical.