Freemasonry. Separating myth from fiction.

[americanvet]

Well I make less than $40,000 per year and I had no problem paying the $70.00 that was the petition fee for my lodge. $25,000 is just not plausible.

 

[drjean]

The cannot ask was a given, and reinforced by those men who came and interviewed us asking for sure that we had not asked to join. Go figure. Knowing the ego of the ex, I suppose he was buying his way to the top...being a minister he already knew all the verses and for all I know, had memorized with his dad's help the other stuff?

I suppose masons will also deny the threat of death for disclosing certain information. go figure that one too

It's not something the Christian needs to do and waste his time with (nor her with the Rebekkah lodge). It is not church, it is not true fellowship but a secret society that we are warned against, right?

 

[americanvet]

2B1ASK1 is the only way to join. The person interested must ask to join any regular Masonic lodge. The penalties you are referring to is how a Mason should feel if they reveal the words and grips. The only thing that can happen to Mason who does is suspension or expulsion.

 

[Albion]

The cannot ask was a given, and reinforced by those men who came and interviewed us asking for sure that we had not asked to join. Go figure. Knowing the ego of the ex, I suppose he was buying his way to the top...being a minister he already knew all the verses and for all I know, had memorized with his dad's help the other stuff?

This is so unreal that it's hard to respond. If the men were there to be sure that your husband hadn't asked to join, why were they there? Do you suppose that people are initiated against their will out of the blue? And you cannot just buy your way to the top, depending on what you think "the top" would be. I suppose that a candidate for head of the Grand Lodge might spend that amount of money driving around the state visiting local lodges and making himself known, but that would not be a requirement and hardly anyone strives for that leadership position. What's more, we were talking about merely joining a lodge at the bottom level!

I suppose masons will also deny the threat of death for disclosing certain information. go figure that one too

Some promises are made and a purely symbolic penalty is affirmed if the person violates his oath. It's identified as symbolic before anyone takes it, and it is what it is only because that is the kind of promise that would have been made in the Middle Ages by craftsmen when Masonry probably originated. We all know former Masons and they're doing just fine, thanks.

It's not something the Christian needs to do and waste his time with (nor her with the Rebekkah lodge). It is not church, it is not true fellowship but a secret society that we are warned against, right?

No one needs the Rotary, PTA, or the Red Cross volunteers, either. If you think a Christian should avoid all associations except church, you are free to think so, as far as I'm concerned.

 

[Skip Sampson]

I wonder if you tire from being wrong so often?

Well, let's see:
1. Is the memorization and recitation of Masonic ritual a typical Lodge activity? Yes it is. Everyone with a speaking part in ritual is expected to be able to recite it from memory, though I'm sure many lodges fall short in this Masonic duty. This requires practice, much of which occurs in the lodge, thus making it 'typical.'

2. Does the new Mason have memory work he must accomplish and recite in open lodge? Yes, he does, at least in the normal process (see below). It's called the catechism, which may be long or short depending upon jurisdiction, and which must be satisfactorily completed before he can advance to the next degree. Perhaps your jurisdiction, whichever one that might be, no longer requires proficiency. If so, I'd say that would make it the exception.

3. Does each meeting involve quite a bit of recitation which must be in accordance with the ritual? Yes, it does. Opening and closing ceremonies, balloting, etc., are pretty formalistic and much of the meeting is from memory.

My comments were correct. Now let's look at your charges:

Some men come into masonry just to join the shrine.

How true.

Those men go through a all the way in one day class.

You cast a broad accusation which probably isn't true. Surely some of such men became Masons the traditional way.

None of those men are required to memorize anything.

Again, not sure if you are correct about that. According to Paul Bessel's website, some GL's do require proficiency (including memory work) for such men. It just depends on the GL in question.

Do I get tired of being wrong so often? I'll consider the question should it ever happen. Cordially, Skip.

 

[Skip Sampson]

My goal is to help those that don't know about masonry.

I thought your goal was to separate myth from fiction. You haven't explained why that is so important to you, but I guess you had your reasons.

Most on here just want to ask specific questions. That's where I want to help.

Yet you haven't answered either of mine. Seems your actions contradict your words. Cordially, Skip.

 

[Skip Sampson]

There are no memorization requirements in order to be initiated a Mason.

That appears to be an intentional deception, and not very good one at that. As you know, or should know, memorization starts with the EA catechism AFTER the initiation, when the EA must become proficient to advance to the next degree. As discussed elsewhere, this may or may not be the case in some one-day classes, but the traditional process does require such memorization.

What does your GL specifically require in terms of memorization of the catechism prior to advancement? Cordially, Skip.

 

[Skip Sampson]

2B1ASK1 is the only way to join.

A very few GL's allow mild solicitation of members, as long as it's not done by handing out applications on street corners. Cordially, Skip.

 

[Skip Sampson]

Uh, Skip, referring to post #45: Don't recall you ever claiming to have been a WM, as Simple now states. Care to elaborate?

Duane, how soon you forget. Remember the debate in Arkansas, and the appellation I was granted afterwards? And how could you have missed the reference to the "Ilks Club?" I figured you'd get a laugh out of that. Cordially, Skip.

 

[Simpleman25]

Well, let's see:
1. Is the memorization and recitation of Masonic ritual a typical Lodge activity? Yes it is. Everyone with a speaking part in ritual is expected to be able to recite it from memory, though I'm sure many lodges fall short in this Masonic duty. This requires practice, much of which occurs in the lodge, thus making it 'typical.'

2. Does the new Mason have memory work he must accomplish and recite in open lodge? Yes, he does, at least in the normal process (see below). It's called the catechism, which may be long or short depending upon jurisdiction, and which must be satisfactorily completed before he can advance to the next degree. Perhaps your jurisdiction, whichever one that might be, no longer requires proficiency. If so, I'd say that would make it the exception.

3. Does each meeting involve quite a bit of recitation which must be in accordance with the ritual? Yes, it does. Opening and closing ceremonies, balloting, etc., are pretty formalistic and much of the meeting is from memory.
My comments were correct. Now let's look at your charges:
How true.

You cast a broad accusation which probably isn't true. Surely some of such men became Masons the traditional way.

Again, not sure if you are correct about that. According to Paul Bessel's website, some GL's do require proficiency (including memory work) for such men. It just depends on the GL in question.

Do I get tired of being wrong so often? I'll consider the question should it ever happen. Cordially, Skip.

Such arrogance is not very surprising from those that think they know. When in fact they fall so very short.

In Oklahoma city 100% of those attending one day classes joined only for the shrine. (2012).

You are also wrong in claiming some state gls require some form of proficiency. Seeing that a number of these men join in one day, it is impossible, for those to learn ritual. If those men attend a blue lodge meeting they would not need to know any ritual work.

I don't expect you to know any of this. You are not a mason. You are basing your comments on what you think vs what we know.

So yes, you must be exhausted from being so wrong so often.

 

[Albion]

That appears to be an intentional deception, and not very good one at that.

As you know, or should know, memorization starts with the EA catechism AFTER the initiation

In other words, I was correct while you are wrong again.

Do I get tired of being wrong so often?

Of course it wouldn't matter to you since all you are doing here is trying to interfere with any meaningful discussion.

 

[duane washum]

You're quite right about that, and it is worth setting the record straight since this is the kind of information that sincere inquirers might want to know about. There are no memorization requirements in order to be initiated a Mason.

Pretty sure the strawman you have attempted to build has failed. Pretty sure the person you are arguing with didn't say anything about memorization requirements in order to be initiated. Pretty sure his comment was regarding new Masons. Your point in pointless.

 

[Albion]

Pretty sure the strawman you have attempted to build has failed. Pretty sure the person you are arguing with didn't say anything about memorization requirements in order to be initiated. Pretty sure his comment was regarding new Masons. Your point in pointless.

If he had claimed the moon was made of purple guacamole, I'm sure you'd have rushed to his defense and said the same thing as you just did here.

 

[Simpleman25]

If he had claimed the moon was made of purple guacamole, I'm sure you'd have rushed to his defense and said the same thing as you just did here.

Of course he would have. One lies and the other swears by it.

 

[Skip Sampson]

Some men come into masonry just to join the shrine. Those men go through a all the way in one day class.

In Oklahoma city 100% of those attending one day classes joined only for the shrine. (2012).

Glad to see you have corrected yourself.

You are also wrong in claiming some state gls require some form of proficiency.

Go back and read the post and you'll find this is what I said:

Again, not sure if you are correct about that. According to Paul Bessel's website, some GL's do require proficiency (including memory work) for such men. It just depends on the GL in question.

Note I'm referring to Paul Bessel's website, who is a Mason and well-versed in U.S. Freemasonry. His data points to the fact that some GL's require 'proficiency' even in one day classes, which I believe means the catechism. If you disagree with the data, take it up with him.

Seeing that a number of these men join in one day, it is impossible, for those to learn ritual. If those men attend a blue lodge meeting they would not need to know any ritual work.

They would if they chose to become officers or accepted a speaking role in the degrees. One assumes from your comments that you have a poor view of the men who undergo the one-day classes, and that they never really participate in any blue lodge functions. Your GL, if you actually are a regular Mason in Oklahoma, made this observation:

Details will be sent to your Lodge later, but in 2012 there will be opportunities, on different dates and in different parts of the state, for Entered Apprentices and Fellowcrafts to complete their Degrees in one day, in a group conferral. The program has worked well in the past, and research by M.W. Robert T. Shipe has shown that men who complete their Degrees in that way are just as active and just as dedicated Masons as those who take the Degrees in the traditional way. (The Oklahoma Mason, 2012 Vol. I Dec/Jan, pg. 24)

Note that the program is described as mainly for EA's and FC's who had never advanced, not for non-Masons. Most commentary about the classes in Oklahoma stress the same focus on EA's and FC's who never advanced. I do not have the OK Constitution, so I don't know exactly what the criteria is for those classes or if they even allow non-Masons. Perhaps you could quote the operative parts from the Constitution, if you have a copy. Cordially, Skip.

 

[duane washum]

If he had claimed the moon was made of purple guacamole, I'm sure you'd have rushed to his defense and said the same thing as you just did here.

Nobody was talking about guacamole. The subject was memorization work required once a person is a new Mason. You muddied the waters with your retort about it. Or, I guess we could call it quacamolied the waters??

 

[emmyan]

Please ask away. I will maintain civility as long as it goes both ways. With some that is impossible, but I shall try anyway.

Thank you.

What degree do you have? If it's higher than third then which rite?

 

[Albion]

What degree do you have? If it's higher than third then which rite?

If you want to know about Simpleman, I guess he'll have to answer personally. However, I'll be happy to answer if there are general questions about the degrees.

The highest degree is the third degree and that is what most Masons have. It is possible to go on to related orders and their degrees, each of which has its own numbering system. The third degree Mason is termed a "Master Mason" and all other degrees that people think are "higher" are merely additional, not higher.

 

[emmyan]

If you want to know about Simpleman, I guess he'll have to answer personally. However, I'll be happy to answer if there are general questions about the degrees.

The highest degree is the third degree and that is what most Masons have. It is possible to go on to related orders and their degrees, each of which has its own numbering system. The third degree Mason is termed a "Master Mason" and all other degrees that people think are "higher" are merely additional, not higher.

I'm sorry are you a mason too?

 

[Simpleman25]

What degree do you have? If it's higher than third then which rite?

Good question. I'm currently a 32nd degree Scottish Rite mason.

As my brother mentioned in his post, there are no degrees higher than a third degree Master Mason.

There are those out there that believe the higher you go, more secrets are revealed. Just isn't isn't the case.