Freemasonry. Separating myth from fiction.

[circuitrider]

They were sufficient to convince his lodge brethren to elect him WM. I'd say that's about all the testimony anyone needs about his credentials.

Sorry Skip, again that shows what you don't know. In the average lodge all you have to do is sit through your time in the various chairs and stations to get elected Master. You don't have to be any more knowledgable than other brethren in the lodge. In fact the most educated brethren are often Past Masters who were Masters years ago and learned a lot more about Masonry after they completed their year in the east through Masonic education and study.

Knowledgable Masons are often those who are involved both in Craft Masonry and the appendant bodies as well as those who pursue interests in Masonic research through Masonic research societies. Those are often the most knowledgable Masons and not the young guy who just got elected to his first time around as Master of a lodge.

 

[duane washum]

Ya gotta love it, Skip, bless their hearts.

Sorry Skip, again that shows what you don't know. In the average lodge all you have to do is sit through your time in the various chairs and stations to get elected Master. You don't have to be any more knowledgable than other brethren in the lodge. In fact the most educated brethren are often Past Masters who were Masters years ago and learned a lot more about Masonry after they completed their year in the east through Masonic education and study.

I guess I just got upgraded, considering that I am a Past Master who was a Master "years ago and learned a lot more about Masonry after they completed their year in the east through Masonic education and study."
And,

Knowledgable Masons are often those who are involved both in Craft Masonry and the appendant bodies, . . .

That would mean like the guys who go through the one, two, or three day initiation into Scottish Rite. And we've already heard a "Simpler" explanation that the meat of Freemasonry is in blue lodge, not the appendant bodies.

 

[circuitrider]

Ya gotta love it, Skip, bless their hearts.


I guess I just got upgraded, considering that I am a Past Master who was a Master "years ago and learned a lot more about Masonry after they completed their year in the east through Masonic education and study."
And,


That would mean like the guys who go through the one, two, or three day initiation into Scottish Rite. And we've already heard a "Simpler" explanation that the meat of Freemasonry is in blue lodge, not the appendant bodies.

Your condescension could be annoying if it wasn't so laughable.

There is Masonic knowledge to be found in all Masonic bodies but different Masons get more out of some part or another of it. If you'd stayed in the Craft you might know that. But bailing on Masonry doesn't some how make you more knowledgeable than those of us who have continued in the Craft for many years. It just makes you a former Mason.

 

[duane washum]

If I hadn't "bailed on Masonry", I would have been bailing on Jesus Christ. The decision was a no brainer.

Yes, I am a former Mason, along with being a former WM and former Past Master; and I have spent quite a bit of time since then, studying Freemasonry, unless, of course, it is your position that there is nothing to be learned from the wide range of Grand Lodge documentation that many in the counter-cult ministries have accumulated.

 

[circuitrider]

If I hadn't "bailed on Masonry", I would have been bailing on Jesus Christ. The decision was a no brainer.

Yes, I am a former Mason, along with being a former WM and former Past Master; and I have spent quite a bit of time since then, studying Freemasonry, unless, of course, it is your position that there is nothing to be learned from the wide range of Grand Lodge documentation that many in the counter-cult ministries have accumulated.

I know that is what you believe was necessary. Have you ever wondered to yourself why most other Christians who are Masons disagree with you? Has it ever made you wonder if you did something you really didn't need to do and some how misunderstood?

Do you ever wonder why most of the leaders of anti-masonic groups are lay people without theological training and not trained clergy. Yet many educated and trained clergy are Masons?

As to Grand Lodge documentation, yes there is a lot of material available for certain. Sometimes what they have is accurate and some of it is just plain bogus. Just like the ritual error Skip posted in the other thread. The quote he attributed to Iowa ritual wasn't the real ritual and never has been. I know this because I'm an Iowa Masonic Instructor and I've memorized most of the Iowa ritual and have been examined repeatedly for accuracy.

When you start with the premiss that Jesus wouldn't want a Christian to be a Mason you have already chosen a path where you are going to believe anything bad you read or hear about Masons and you are going to dismiss the good that others tell you about.

Your a priori conclusions about Freemasonry determine what you discover as you perform eisegesis on Masonic ritual and documents. With your minds already closed to any other conclusion you get the answer you were hoping to get because your answer is the only one you can see as true.

 

[drjean]

Some people are a little farther along their journey than others. I think Duane, and I, are ahead of others here regarding Spiritual matters. It doesn't make him better, just farther on the path.

I also suggest that the Mason lodges operate quite differently in various parts of the country...and while they want it to be uniform, because you're dealing with people it can't and won't be. No organization is even when it has worldwide goals like the Scouts... you are taught what the local leaning is whether contrary to the original intentions or not. Perhaps that's why so much of "today's" Masonry is not Christian? (But then, the vows and oaths... God doesn't appreciate those imo)

 

[Albion]

Some people are a little farther along their journey than others. I think Duane, and I, are ahead of others here regarding Spiritual matters. It doesn't make him better, just farther on the path.

Sounds a lot like you're describing what you think equals 'better.'

I also suggest that the Mason lodges operate quite differently in various parts of the country...and while they want it to be uniform, because you're dealing with people it can't and won't be. No organization is even when it has worldwide goals like the Scouts... you are taught what the local leaning is whether contrary to the original intentions or not. Perhaps that's why so much of "today's" Masonry is not Christian?

What differences do you have in mind or have noticed? And what makes you think that this one former Mason has understood things more correctly than millions of Masons who are practicing Christians??

 

[circuitrider]

drjean, I don't know you so I can't know where you are spiritually.

But I wonder if you know Mr. Washum all that well if you think he is further down the spiritual path just because he opposes Masonic membership for Christians.

His views are based largely on misunderstanding and misinterpretation of Masonic teachings and also misunderstandings of Christian theology. Those of us who are Christians and Freemasons don't see what he sees at all in Masonry nor feel that his misrepresentations of Masonry are a sign of being more spiritual.

 

[Skip Sampson]

Ya gotta love it, Skip, bless their hearts.

How true. In his haste to denigrate you, he manages to insult every WM in his jurisdiction. And then he inadvertently promotes your credentials by his follow-on comments. One would conclude that he really doesn't know much about your Masonic experiences. We just couldn't make this stuff up. Cordially, Skip.

 

[Skip Sampson]

His views are based largely on misunderstanding and misinterpretation of Masonic teachings and also misunderstandings of Christian theology.

Just what misunderstandings does Duane have? Cordially, Skip.

 

[drjean]

drjean, I don't know you so I can't know where you are spiritually.

But I wonder if you know Mr. Washum all that well if you think he is further down the spiritual path just because he opposes Masonic membership for Christians.

His views are based largely on misunderstanding and misinterpretation of Masonic teachings and also misunderstandings of Christian theology. Those of us who are Christians and Freemasons don't see what he sees at all in Masonry nor feel that his misrepresentations of Masonry are a sign of being more spiritual.

Yes I understand that.
I've been on both sides, so to speak, as well...but it took many years to fully realize the errant ways of FreeMasonry. So many involved in it "need" it and also buy into the misgivings of it, learning to rationalize what they see or are asked to do.

Let's face it, if it were a true Christian organization it wouldn't be listed under "Philosophy".

 

[Albion]

Yes I understand that.
I've been on both sides, so to speak, as well...but it took many years to fully realize the errant ways of FreeMasonry. So many involved in it "need" it and also buy into the misgivings of it, learning to rationalize what they see or are asked to do.

Let's face it, if it were a true Christian organization it wouldn't be listed under "Philosophy".

It's not a religion or denomination, so it couldn't accurately be listed with those forums. What's more, you and we already know that it is not "a Christian organization." Men of different religions are admitted to membership. The issue we're looking at now is whether it conflicts with Christianity. It doesn't. And also, whether someone who doesn't have his way in the organization after violating its rules is more Christian for having stalked out because of it?

 

[circuitrider]

How true. In his haste to denigrate you, he manages to insult every WM in his jurisdiction. And then he inadvertently promotes your credentials by his follow-on comments. One would conclude that he really doesn't know much about your Masonic experiences. We just couldn't make this stuff up. Cordially, Skip.

Right Skip. Sure. I'm aware of Duane's bio. I haven't insult any WM by truthfully telling you something you didn't know, that you don't have to be some Masonic expert to be Master of a lodge. This is obvious information to anyone who has been in Freemasonry for a good amount of time. Anyone who is a hard working Mason can end up being Master of a lodge but that doesn't make the master an expert on ritual or Masonic history. Masonry is so big that no one is an expert in everything. Every active Mason knows that.

You are much less likely to become an upper level Grand Lodge officer or head of Scottish Rite or state York Rite body if you aren't a very active and pretty knowledgable Mason.

But you are a "book Mason." What you know you know from books and from disgruntled ex-masons. It means you have gaps in your knowledge. You think you know what you are talking about and you don't. So you and Duane guffaw over what you think you know.

As to sitting in the East, I am Past Master of two lodge in Iowa and currently am the Senior Steward of a 3rd lodge that I now attend where I currently live.
I'm also a member of many of the Masonic organizations you can name and have held office in a number of them.

I'm also an ordained United Methodist minister. So I know something about Christian theology as well.

 

[drjean]

I wish to add that my father-in-law was a minister while a mason...and I was often present when my (former) spouse would discuss Christianity vs masonry with his dad, finally getting him to "quit" the masons, winning the theological argument.

Later in life, his dad was sucked back into it (ego stroking) and then when my (former) spouse was required to become a Mason to make Chief in the USCG, he also went against what he knew to be Christian, and joined (money hungry, greedy). He is still an ordained minister, I might add.

I find it interesting that no mason has addressed how political they are, such as the whole US Coast Guard being "run" by them... but I know that isn't the intent of the thread.

Peace, guys. Good thing most ppl are Christians before joining, and so they won't lose their salvation over this.

 

[Simpleman25]

Yes I understand that.
I've been on both sides, so to speak, as well...but it took many years to fully realize the errant ways of FreeMasonry. So many involved in it "need" it and also buy into the misgivings of it, learning to rationalize what they see or are asked to do.

Let's face it, if it were a true Christian organization it wouldn't be listed under "Philosophy".

I'm quite baffled by numerous comments you've made on here. I'll start with the most insulting and self serving comment.

What makes you think you and dw are further along in your faith than any one else? You know little or nothing about me personally, yet you claim to be further in your journey? I would really like to hear your explanation on that one.

Where else should masonry be put? It was moved to philosophy for a specific reason. It was primarily talked about in the Catholic forum. In there you can't defend yourself against the Catholic line of thought. This was the only reasonable place to put it.

 

[Simpleman25]

Just what misunderstandings does Duane have? Cordially, Skip.

He misunderstood the promise he made to not share with the outside world. A promise he made to many men, including his family. Nothing he says can be truly trusted. Which truth do we believe?

 

[duane washum]

Circuitrider, in response to some of your "wonders" a few posts back:

Actually, I do have a few "I wonders" of my own.
I have often wondered why it is that so many men who claim to be both Christians and Masons, do not realize that there is obviously either a lacking of knowledge regarding Freemasonry on their parts, or they are lacking a true, personal relationship with Jesus Christ. I have often wondered this, because it must be one or the other.

I have often wondered why it is that so many supposedly educated and trained clergy are so utterly blinded when it comes to the heretical teachings of Freemasonry that they have eyes that will not see, ears that will not hear, and hearts that will not truly receive Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior. They are quite content to draw paychecks as hirelings, because they have not answered a true calling of being shepherds who not only feed their flocks, but protect them as well.

Regarding the premise you alluded to. We need to go back to my original premise about Freemasonry. My original premise was that there was nothing wrong with a Christian being a Mason. And on that basis, I chose a path of believing everything good I heard about Freemasonry, even to the point that I allowed for obvious heresy and blasphemy to go right over my head. You see, my mind had been closed to any other premises or conclusions. I had convinced myself, as obviously flawed as I was in my biased thinking about Freemasonry, that there was nothing wrong with a Christian being a Mason. But, of course, what it was I was eventually able to understand was the Truth, that Truth being Jesus Christ; that Truth being His Written Word.

But I will admit to one thing that seems to distress you immensely, whether being forthright about it or being unspoken by you about it: I no longer accept the explanation by Freemasonry's spin doctors and apologists as being factual. Rather, I examine Masonic ritual and teachings for what they are actually saying, in comparison to God's Written Word. And, apparently more so than you, I find myself often times accepting Freemasonry's own explanations on certain matters as being far more honest and forthright about what its teachings are than most of its apologists will admit to.

Something else that shows you really know nothing about me at all is the final statement to one of your posts above where you stated,

Your a priori conclusions about Freemasonry determine what you discover as you perform eisegesis on Masonic ritual and documents. With your minds already closed to any other conclusion you get the answer you were hoping to get because your answer is the only one you can see as true.

When I first left Freemasonry, satan began tempting me with a question or two that really caused me to stop and consider the lies he was telling me, one of them being that I had made a big mistake by leaving Freemasonry, telling me I simply didn't understand it. You know, much like some of the false claims I encounter on this forum.

Then, my thoughts went back to my dad who had instilled in me that when a man realizes he has made a mistake, there is no shame in that. The only shame is if he is not man enough to admit it. So, I began doing quite a bit of study and research on Freemasonry. I was reading, Mackey and Coil, and I was especially reading ritual, monitors, training manuals, etc. My purpose was: If I had truly made a mistake, as satan was trying to convince me, it was incumbent upon me to learn the truth, and if I had been wrong, I wanted to be allowed to go before the membership of Vegas Lodge No. 32, admit that I had been wrong about Freemasonry, and beg their forgiveness.

Turns out, quite the opposite happened, in spite of satan's efforts. What my studies led me to, by reading from Freemasonry's own scholars and GL documents, was this: My mistake was not leaving the lodge. My mistake was ever having become a Freemason in the first place.

 

[duane washum]

He misunderstood the promise he made to not share with the outside world. A promise he made to many men, including his family. Nothing he says can be truly trusted. Which truth do we believe?

You see, Skip, the main problem with so many members of the Craft is that, by their skewed way of thinking, it is far more important that I obey, let's say, Simpleman, than it is that I be obedient to my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

If some of these men would simply read the Bible they claim to embrace, passages such as Ezekiel 33:1-7 might begin to resonate. The problem is that Simpleman wants me to ignore God's calling and put my trust in him. That ain't gonna happen.

 

[Simpleman25]

You see, Skip, the main problem with so many members of the Craft is that, by their skewed way of thinking, it is far more important that I obey, let's say, Simpleman, than it is that I be obedient to my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

If some of these men would simply read the Bible they claim to embrace, passages such as Ezekiel 33:1-7 might begin to resonate. The problem is that Simpleman wants me to ignore God's calling and put my trust in him. That ain't gonna happen.

You'd think that after all these years your comprehension skills would get better.

Never asked you to obey me, nor did I say to ignore God's calling.

Just another wild tale you spun to attempt to make your dishonesty look good.

Quit spinning wild tales and strawman dw. All this does is confer your inability to be honest with your fellow man. Or brother as it were.

 

[Albion]

I wish to add that my father-in-law was a minister while a mason...and I was often present when my (former) spouse would discuss Christianity vs masonry with his dad, finally getting him to "quit" the masons, winning the theological argument.

Later in life, his dad was sucked back into it (ego stroking) and then when my (former) spouse was required to become a Mason to make Chief in the USCG, he also went against what he knew to be Christian, and joined (money hungry, greedy). He is still an ordained minister, I might add.

I find it interesting that no mason has addressed how political they are, such as the whole US Coast Guard being "run" by them... but I know that isn't the intent of the thread.

Peace, guys. Good thing most ppl are Christians before joining, and so they won't lose their salvation over this.

I hate to remind you of this, but you also believed it when you were told that it cost $25,000 to join the Masons.

Another myth is that is doesn't cost money to join. The final straw in my marriage was because my former husband had to become a mason so he could make rank in the US Coast Guard--rank and money we needed. After he was accepted he had to have $25,000. I refused to mortgage the house so he divorced me (among other reasons).