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The Bible says one is "born again" through faith in Jesus Christ. The Lodge say one is "reborn" by becoming a Mason. How can this be compatible with biblical Christianity?You have entered a new world. Symbolically and spiritually you have been reborn. This started the moment you were prepared to become a Freemason.
Allen E. Roberts, The Craft and Its Symbols, page 3
O.F.F. said:The Lodge say one is "reborn" by becoming a Mason.
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, Sans] "The Struggle Over Freemasonry", James A Beverley. Canadian Baptist, ed. Larry Matthews. February 1998, vol. 144, no. 2. pp. 24-28. Dr James Beverley is a specialist in modern religious movements and a member of the faculty at Ontario Theological Seminary. Material from Wallace McLeod and Steve Tsoukalsis was supplied by Dr Beverley. Wallace McLeod is a professor emeritus at the University of Toronto, and one of the most distinguished Masonic historians in the world. Steve Doukalas is executive director of Sound Doctrine Ministries and a well-known critic of Masonry.[/FONT]
Here's a link about Leo Zagami, former member of the Masonic Executive Committee of Monte Carlo, and 33rd° freemason with the P2 Lodge. He's defying death by breaking his oaths, and exposing the horrific plans for the world, which made him defect. http://www.illuminaticonfessions.webfriend.it/
If the link doesn't work, google his name.
Wayne will insist that's not really freemasonry, only an exact copy of it; born of THEN accepted prominent freemason Mazzini. Wayne is strictly front steps freemasonry, saying the P2 son of freemasonry is irrelevant; but P2 is a back door to 33rd°, often faster because mafia people don't need the conditioning as to dangers of violating the oaths via rites of the steps up.
Albion tries to say 33rd° altogether is irrelevant, because not all masons are 33rd°, though the oaths serve the 33rd° agenda. They insist on irrefutable evidence of anyones' involvement with freemasonry, knowing that membership rolls are strictly confidential by masonic law. Therefore, the writings of Crowley and LaVey and Mazzini and Pike are the only evidence there can be, besides things like the masonic award plaque displayed by Hells Angels pres Barger in the tv documentary.
Hiding behind secrecy isn't being above board, on the level. The relation of P2 to front steps freemasonry at the beginning is indisputable. Demanding proof while hiding the facts is the strategy of defenders of freemasonry. Wayne won't even post the words to his oath in full. What's he hiding from us that we cannot be told without violating his oath?
Questionable history, questionable memberships, questionable rulership, questionable oaths, questionable agenda, questionable loyalties. All kept secret as possible, but sometimes exposed by Captain William Morgan, or Leo Zagami, or me. My experience is with P2 lodge mafia people, who don't consider themselves as masonic outcasts, except perhaps as a formality for public relations purposes.
Only deceivers need hide behind secrecy.
"For the fruit of the spirit is in all goodess and righteousness and TRUTH; Proving what is acceptable to the Lord. And have NO FELLOWSHIP with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather, reprove them. For it is a shame to even speak of those things which are done by them IN SECRET"-Ephesians 5:9-12.
The fruits of the rulership of the world by secret societies is mass murders under the pretense of justifiable wars, from the Inquisition to Iraq; up to a million dead Iraq civilians who had nothing to do with 9/11, ignored by false Christians, suckered into believing that Bush (Bohemian Grove member & Skull & Bones Order of Death member) is Christian. Deception is vital to their rule.
If there's even a question as to the character of some members of freemasonry it's enough reason to not have "fellowship" with them. Freemason Reagan was also a Bohemian Grove practitioner of Babylonian Baal/Moloch murder rituals... http://www.ralphepperson.com was supplied info by 33rd° masons about Reagan being freemason. (Lest they demand proof that Reagan was a mason, hiding behind secrecy of membership rolls again). http://www.home.planet.nl/-reijd050/organizations/bohemian_grove_members_list.htm You can be sure at least some of the names are freemasons, despite the secrecy as to memberships.
When I was Initiated an Entered Apprentice, I was not told I had been "reborn"!
When I was Passed to the degree of Fellowcraft, I was not told I had been "reborn"!
When I was Raised to the degree of Master Mason, I was not told I had been "reborn"! I was told I had been "Raised"! The Raising is clearly a symbolic act to signify being "elevated" to a new and higher level of awareness and understanding.
The Master Mason degree in not now nor has it ever been a substitute for or a representation of a baptism, a spiritual rebirth or a religious conversion. Try to spin it as best you can, it just doesn't hold water.
George
Masonic Baptism Article said:Duane Washum
Ex-Mason for Jesus
Past Master - Vegas Lodge #32
2.1 No Flaming
. . .Such behavior would include personally defamatory comments or inflammatory accusations, even if you believe them to be true. . .
Christian Forum Rule 2.1
George,
Since you are a relatively new member of this forum, let me remind you that your post is in violation of the rules of this forum. Specifically 2.1, which says in part:
Quote:
2.1 No Flaming
. . .Such behavior would include personally defamatory comments or inflammatory accusations, even if you believe them to be true. . .
Christian Forum Rule 2.1
Duane Washum is a member of this forum. And, the link you posted includes, "personally defamatory comments or inflammatory accusations" against a member of this forum. Therefore, you are in violation of this rule and have been duly reported.
So, it is OK to post a link to an article that defames Freemasonry but it is a violation of the "no flaming" rule to post a link that explores the history and motivations of the author of that article. And it is OK for you to post snide and derogatory remarks about a man of the cloth but I am the one that needs to be reported?!
There is no rule in what one posts against Freemasonry. After all, even the administrators of this forum agree that it belongs in the category of unorthodox, non-Christian, non-Nicene theology, because that's exactly what it is. So, while they allow you to create threads here to debate otherwise, the Christian case against the Masonic Lodge has already been decided as far as they are concern.
The same rule however, does apply to Masonic members of this forum. And, trust me, I've been warned and even suspended here a couple of times for my remarks against the Masonic "man of the cloth," as you call him, or I should say "man of the Apron;" since thats the only "cloth" he truly represents here.
O.F.F. said:There is no rule in what one posts against Freemasonry. After all, even the administrators of this forum agree that it belongs in the category of unorthodox, non-Christian, non-Nicene theology, because that's exactly what it is. So, while they allow you to create threads here to debate otherwise, the Christian case against the Masonic Lodge has already been decided as far as they are concern.
Mike,Wiki: Rules - Non-Nicene Theology
The Non-Nicene Theology forums are for discussion of Christian theology(emphasis mine!), especially including those doctrines which are not outlined in or are contrary to the Nicene Creed.
Christian doctrines which specifically are outlined or implied in the Nicene creed can be discussed in the Nicene Theology forums.
http://www.christianforums.com/t5697433O.F.F. said:Sometimes, I don't know who is the most arrogant, the Pope or his "cultic" followers. No where in the universally accepted Canon of Scripture (the 66 books of the Holy Bible) is there any mention of Jesus establishing the "Catholic" church or denomination.
Jesus established "the Church," which is the universal body of believers who became, and are becoming, "born-again" by faith in His finished work at Calvary, and not by works of human effort, which include the 'required' sacraments of Roman Catholicism.
Futhermore, the Holy Bible (as specified above) has no arrogant and egotistical mention of the "Roman Catholic Church alone as being the mediator of salvation."
Biblically, Jesus Christ is the ONLY mediator between God and man, not the "cult" of Roman Catholicism (1 Timothy 2:5).
O.F.F. said:the Masonic "man of the cloth," as you call him, or I should say "man of the Apron;" since thats the only "cloth" he truly represents here.
Then by the same principle, you'd better inform Mike that his rejection of the Catholic Church is invalid. Why? Because if you can make a statement like this and declare it to be valid, then I can take the same statement and declare it to be an across-the-board principle, that if anyone, no matter what they believe, may declare themselves to be members of that organization despite its definition and declaration of its beliefs, then the principle must apply to Christianity as well.Every person associated with freemasonry in the past, present is relevant, as are all aspects and offshoot orgs, like the son of freemasonry twin of freemasonry P2 lodge.
You could always google it, if it's so danged important to you. I'm surprised you hadn't thought of that already.They're so sworn to secrecy that Wayne can't even post the wording of his 3rd° Blue Lodge oath.
What difference does it make, since:What then does the 33rd° hide, that Wayne has no idea of?
I know nothing at all about pastors being tax exempt, only churches. It is not something I would have any reason to address anyway, those in positions of administration in the denomination would do that. All that is required anyway, is that a form 1023 be filled out and sent in as application for such status. But I defy you to find anywhere on the current IRS form 1023 where it says any such thing as you claim. I looked all through it and did not see it anywhere.Ordained ministers are bound by the IRS tax exempt agreement, which forbids opposing the gov "pubic policy" (501c3).
There is no rule in what one posts against Freemasonry. After all, even the administrators of this forum agree that it belongs in the category of unorthodox, non-Christian, non-Nicene theology, because that's exactly what it is. So, while they allow you to create threads here to debate otherwise, the Christian case against the Masonic Lodge has already been decided as far as they are concern.
6.6 You MAY post in the "Christians Only" forums and MAY use a "Christian" faith icon in your profile if you consider yourself a "Christian" and DO adhere to the contents of the Nicene Creed AND believe in the following controversial doctrines BUT the specific discussion of these doctrines must be posted in the Open forums (for example, Unorthodox Theological Doctrines) and not in the Christian Only forums:
a. Full Preterism.
b. Open Theism.
c. Universalism or Universal Salvation.
d. Annihilationism.
e. Freemasonry.
I've been warned and even suspended here a couple of times for my remarks against the Masonic "man of the cloth,"
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