Freemason

Texas Lynn said:

You get that when you go through the 273rd Degree Rite.

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Don't scare the others, they won't sleep thinking masons teleport at some 273rd degree...I can see new websites going up right now, "273rd Defree! Teleportation, secret book!"

Now I must go catch up with agent J and K. Look directly into the pen.

<Flash!>
The magical book and 273rd degree is part of a new plot of a Harry Potter book and is not real.

We are the Men in Black.

Why would it fall under any Theology when it is not a Religion? When will people eventually understand that fact?

dreamingflower said:

I rather believe than be ignorant to it. I rather be cautious then not to be cautious at all..

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Umm... so where do you draw the line? If you would truly rather believe anything and be cautious about it... wouldn't you just end up locking yourself in a bunker for the rest of your life?

Once again, fear is a powerful thing...

SingingElk said:

The Masons might not have any bag of magic tricks but I have done research on the philosophical underpinnings of the Lodge. It is definitely does not fall under orthodox theology.

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Care to elaborate? That's an interesting thing to say and just leave it hanging out there.

Senachwine said:

In my search for better understandings, I have studied the conspiracy theory theatre rather extensively. Many who write of such kick everything over the past couple-hundred years to the Illuminati, though some venture to take it back farther to the Priory of Sion- which might never have existed, being based on Jesus having fathered children with Mary M, and thus starting a rather unique bloodline.
1. The original Illuminati were VIPs of their era, so they did have influence- though not necessarily on Christian dogma. But such is long ago.
2. In analyzing the Freemasons, first one must distinguish what levels one is talking about. My Grandfather was a VIP in Masonry, but went regularly to a rural Congregational Church, of which he was the largest financial voice in keeping said Church afloat. But he was only 33rd. It is said there is another level, higher.
3. If the Masonic community is a church community, the vast majority of the congregation is taught the same truth upon which all religions are founded- the Golden Rule. As for belief in Jesus- perhaps this is not stressed in their teachings, though I plead ignorance on this.
4. The real issue, it seems, is the role the leaders of Masonry, etc., play in the lives of the masses. Whether it's the CFR forming US foreign policy, or the Bilderberger's deciding social and political matters with where money is put in support of (some say they steer the media to focus where they have deemed it should), such as these do nothing to the Christian faith of the masses. However, one MUST open one's eyes at the world we live in: gambling is legal most everywhere, and encouraged via lottos, etc., and step back 40 years ago to see gambling was regarded as quite the opposite; and, being a man, I cannot say such is unpleasant, but when one looks at common bikini bottoms on beaches nowdays, and what they exhibit, young ladies wearing such would have been arrested 50 years ago for such a display; and, when one looks at what has happened to the state of marriage in America since the 70s, now with a generally accepted 2/3s of all marriages ending in divorce since then, and what has resulted with the children over the past two generations; etc.; etc., one does have to wonder. Bottom line: if the course of 1st-World cultures lead the masses away from Christianity, and spirituality, then perhaps there is working influence that has brought the cultures to that course.

I also must add a little something else: the so-called endgame of the wealthy and powerful "secret societies," which began with the Illluminati, is a one-world government, with what are now nations being reduced to states of said government, and all peoples being citizens of one central government. This idea is now at least 100 years old, if not far older, and was championed by Woodrow Wilson (and Mr. House) with the post-World War I League of Nations- though the conspiracy theorists take it farther back to the entire concept of the British Empire. The core of this endgame is for the ultra-wealthy, and their corporations, overtly running the world via both business and government- keeping those ultra-wealthy as the essential rulers of the world. Communism was the greatest obstacle to such as this happening; but, with the Soviets and China going the capitalist route, it would seem said obstacles are no more.
Make what you will of this. I, personally, can not see this coming to be in my lifetime, but I am not a youngster. If it does eventually happen, I foresee little impact on Religion- which exists between the individual and Creator, and Saviour. Such a ruling power would be able to tolerate Religion, and at the same time do as they please. Government hoodwinkin' it's citizens is as old as the hills, you know.

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Ted Haggard... In a documentary called "Jesus Camp" Ted Haggard claimed that those kids they were teaching are the ones that will control the political system "When Evangelicals vote, they determine the outcome."
Basically they are closing that gap so many desperately want to keep, "Separation between Church and State."

I personally don't want history repeating itself here in the USA. We don't need people owing any church for land or food or a church having prison cells for those who can't pay for land and or food or being tortured due to what they consider are sins, and the rich controlling and enslaving the poor - rich being those Bishops,Politicians, and millionaires dictating our every move...

Jesus Camp(2006)
Campers: I pledge allegiance to the Christian flag...

Ted Haggard: If the evangelicals vote, they determine the election.

Campers: [Red-haired girl] There are certain churches, they're called "dead churches," and the people there, they sit there, like this
[blank stare monotone]

Becky Fischer: And while I'm on the subject, let me say something about Harry Potter. Warlocks are the enemies of God! And I don't care what kind of hero they are, they're an enemy of God and had it been in the old testament Harry Potter would have been put to death!
Crowd: Amen!

Becky Fischer: You don't make heroes out of warlocks!
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I do believe people here are pointing their fingers at the wrong crowd.

Ted Haggard: I think I know what you did last night.
[audience laughs]

In November 2006, Ted Haggard resigned or was removed from all of his leadership positions after he admitted patronizing prostitute for homosexual sex and methamphetamine.

According to him, that's a sin and this is a guy who was in direct contact with the President.

Who is really trying to take control and claim power for themselves?

It always amuses me to see the immense superstition and fear people have of the Freemason Society. What's even funnier, is that all of the information out there regarding, "devil worship" and "magic rituals" are a load of bunk.

I can debunk all of the myths right now:

1. Freemasonry is a religion:
False. It is an organization that began in England after the men from several organizations got together for dinner.

2. Freemasonry involves Witchcraft and magic:
False. I know a Wiccan man who is a Freemason and emphatically stated that while he used magic in his personal life (FWIW, he was an initiated Wiccan before becoming a Freemason) they never used magic or anything that closely resembled magic in the Lodge.

3. The link to the "testimony" of the guy whose grandfathers were supposedly Freemasons is laughable. He refers to high priestesses (there are no female Freemasons. Some lodges have a ladies' auxiliary for the wives of Freemasons, but women are not present during Lodge meetings). He refers to the "high priest". There is no "high priest" in Freemasonry. There is a Master Mason, Senior and Junior wardens as well as a secretary and treasurer. He stated his grandfather could physically prevent rain from hitting him, which is impossible even for those who do practice Witchcraft.

3. There is a secret "Masonic Bible" that contains the satanic rituals in it.
False. There is no such thing as the "Freemason's Bible". During meetings, a King James version Bible is typically used. When my paternal grandmother passed away, I inherited my grandfather's Bible. It was given to him by a fellow Freemason at the time of his initiation. The only difference between it and Bibles you find at the local book store is that his Bible has the Masonic emblem on the front cover. That's it. No secret rituals. No detailed instructions on how to sacrifice a newborn baby to satan. Nothing.

4. Freemasons are all rich and want power.
False. With the exception of my maternal grandfather, every Freemason I've ever known was dirt poor.

5. The initiation consists of the individual having to slaughter a baby and casting a magic spell:
False. When my uncle was on his deathbed he told my dad that he was able to break his oath of secrecy and disclose what happened on the night of his initiation into the Freemason Society. They took him to a bar, got him drunk on beer, blindfolded him, drove him out to a cornfield, spun him around several times all the while the other Masons were heckling him and saying things like, "keep him away from the edge of that cliff!" and then they gave him a good, playful shove. Then they all shared a great laugh at his expense and he became a member of the brotherhood.

KatAutumn said:

5. The initiation consists of the individual having to slaughter a baby and casting a magic spell:
False. When my uncle was on his deathbed he told my dad that he was able to break his oath of secrecy and disclose what happened on the night of his initiation into the Freemason Society. They took him to a bar, got him drunk on beer, blindfolded him, drove him out to a cornfield, spun him around several times all the while the other Masons were heckling him and saying things like, "keep him away from the edge of that cliff!" and then they gave him a good, playful shove. Then they all shared a great laugh at his expense and he became a member of the brotherhood.

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Thank you for being one more voice of reason.

Just to be accurate though, there is an initiation that is more official than this. It still isn't anything sinister... although every mason I know LOVES to joke about it to new initiates or people outside the lodge.

As a Freemason I would like to add my contribution to this thread.

I can only support what has been outlined in this thread with regards to Freemasonry (FM). There is, however, aspects which have not been addressed and it would remiss of me to let those aspects pass without comment.

FM hits the news every so often usually in some form of sensationalisation which serves to add confusion to an already confused situation. The recent novel by Dan Brown, The DaVinci Code, is but a recent example of this continuing trend. So, with your indulgence, I add my comments in the hope that those who have, for whatever reason, generated some fear towards FM might make a more balanced assessment.

I joined FM in 1976 - over 30 years ago. My father is a FM of more than 70 years - a more honourable and humble one could not wish to meet. His knowledge is extensive, however, I have undertaken my own research and I turn to this work in this post.

There are many Freemasonies. Some of those organisation are faternal (men only), while other are sororal (women only) and there are others open to both men and women. I belong to the United Grand Lodge of Queensland (UGLQ) which recognises the United Grand Lodge of England (UGLE). There are many other Grand Lodges (GL) throughout the world not all of them recognising or associated with UGLE. So I speak for my own organisation only.

UGLE is know as the premier GL as it started from a meeting of four otherwise independent Lodges in the Goose and Gridiron pub in London in 1717. However, to understand what FM is about, what's it's aim and objectives may be, it is necessary to backtrack from 1717 - back into the Middle Ages.

Back in those times there were only two classes of people - the aristocracy and the peasants (serfs). The aristocracy owned the land and did no work, while the peasants did not own any land and had to do all the work - life was tough for a serf. Serfs developed many expert skills, silversmiths, tylers, millers and the like - all the necessary expertise to keep a community ecomically afloat. These men, and they were men, had to belong to associated guilds which controlled their labour - and one of the more restrictive was the ability to move about the country in search of work. Masons, who worked in stone, were alleviated of this restriction - they were deemed free to move about with respect to work. This aspect was necessary as masons were responsible for the massive buildings, particularly the many catherdrals which still exist today, and such buildings were not built in close proximity to each other. Travel was therefore a requirment for masons many of whom travelled to the Continent to continue their work.

The building of these catherdrals and castles was a lengthy process - 20 years and more - and the men lived in a lodge build near their workplace. The lodge became the place where masons not only lived and eat but carried out their own administration of the lodge - particularly the acceptance of apprentice mason and their eventual acceptance as fellows of the craft, ie, masons. It is not unexpected that there grew up around this aspect of communal living and working together a formalised ritual within the lodge and it is the form of ritual which underpins much of present-day FM.

A significant aspect of that formalised ritual took on a religious significance. Denied the priviledges of the aristocracy these operative masons made work a virtue - a reflection of God. Much of this is lost in the midst of time but there are documents known as the 'Old Charges' which supports this view. Thus, while the masons built a catherdral to the Glory of God they also built themselves along the morals and ethics outlined in Christian scripture as the Regius Poem (AD1390) entreats ...

The twelfth article is of high honesty
To every mason wheresoever he be,
He shall not his fellows' work deprave,
If that he will his honesty save;
With honest words he it commend,
By the wit God did thee send;
But it amend by all that thou may,
Between you both without nay. (doubt)

Masons had secrets. Those secrets had to do with who they were - men with skills that transcended their lack of literacy - namely geometry. The theories of Euclid were essential to building and these edifaces that masons built during this time and those magnificant buildings that one sees today are testimeny to that skill. Those skills were protected by certain secret words and tokens which served to identify just who were and who were not qualified masons - what we might now call a curriculum vitae.

Operative masonry all but died out when the great catherdral building era passed. But there were many who were draw to the ethics and morals of the Masons and attended Lodge meetings through invitation. As a result over time, these guests became members of the lodge and were known as speculative masons. As time passed it was speculative masons who became the majority of members and eventually inherited the traditions of the old operative masons which became formalised in the meeting conducted in the Goose and Gridiron in 1717.

This is but a thumb nail sketch and I have not attempted to explain the full mosiac that makes up FM.

I noticed you mentioned that your Grandfather was a VIP - I am not familiar with this term other than its generalised use - very important person.

I wish I knew, wayseer. He was a past chancellor-commander and treasurer of the Knights of Pythias, worthy patron of the Order of the Eastern Star, and member of a north-central Illinois Masonic Lodge. His rapid rise to very significant heights in the business and political world of Illinois, and beyond, in the 50s and 60s, as an Insurance executive, is what leads me to think he was a VIP. That, and another matter of things private spoken between us, some of which were in regards to Jesus, yet he was the one, more than any other, whose financial support kept a rural Christian Church afloat.

Of note, a former co-employee of mine told me he was a 33rd, of the Scottish Rite. If you are ever in the QuadCities, you really should check-out their cathedral. It truly is a site to behold. I have often thought of trying to gain entry.

Senachwine - thanks - there are many different FM and I'm not familiar with the ones you mentioned other than the 33 Degree.

I have a couple of other posts prepared but my modem has gone on the blink and I'm operating from someone else's computer. I will return in due cource.

I left off at that point in 1717 when the Premier Grand Lodge of England was formed. One might image that having formed such a body that things would become somewhat simpler. Such is not the case. During the ensuing century the GL was to confront many issues before emerging as the organisation we have today. I do not propose to cover all those changes - but to highlight some of the more important.

Before proceeding it is necessary to appreciate the particular history of that era to understand how the social environment impacted on the development of FM.

It was the time of the rising influence of the middle class and the entrepreneur. It was also the time of religious and political conflict. Within this mix it appears that men who prized virtue and truth found life difficult in a religio-political climate that demanded the taking of one side or the other. FM provided a avenue for escape - a place where men could freely mix without having to keep looking over their shoulder in case some spy was eager to report any minor indiscretion which could be of use in denouncing such activity as a subversive act leading to seizure of property, imprisonment or worst. It is therefore no accident that these are two topics that remained off limits within the Lodge - religion and politics - and they remain so sanctioned today.

I indicated in my previous post that the operative lodges had two classes of members, apprentices and fellows of the craft. It appears that at some stage during this transition period from operative to speculative masonry, that the speculative masons made a third class of membership, that of Master Mason. These classes were called Degrees - the Apprentice was the 1st D, the Fellowcraft the 2nd D and the Master Mason the 3rd D and the organisation became known as Freemasonry.

There were other changes but the one which I think deserve some attention in this post is the part that King Solomon's Temple (KST) plays within FM ritual.

No longer concerned with building buildings speculative masons concerned themselves with building character and no better place to start was stories surrounding the building of the first Temple at Jerusalem built by King Solomon. Here were ready made characters, Solomon, King of Israel, Hiram, King of Tyre and Hiram Abif - three master masons who held sway at the building of that magnificent structure. Thus KST become the focus of an apologia - a vindication for the development of a legend that cemented the connection between the operative and speculative mason. As KST was built to the Glory of God, so a man's character might be built using the tools familiar to the operative mason. But for the speculative, or symbolic mason, the square, the level, and the plumb rule become didactic tools through which moral and ethical instruction were imparted. Thus the work of the FM became the building of a living structure reflecting the best known attributes of our Creator, whom Masons recognise as the Great Architect of the Universe.

It was also during this time that FM became theist. Due to the religious wars taking place - wars between Christian and Christian - FM distant itself from the on-going conflict by adopting a theist position rather than a Christian position. FMs believed in God but left such matters of salvation and atonement to the Church. Thus there are but a few requirements required by prospective Candidates - being a mature male, free, of good report and one who maintains a belief in God. Such believe required neither justification nor further explanation, remaining private and a matter solely for the individual FM. As FMs could not hold any religious discussion in Lodge no theological doctrine could therefore be established let alone promulgated. Neither could it offer any sacraments or atonement and was therefore not a religion.

I will leave off for the moment at this point with my usual caution. I have painted a thumbnail sketch which is by no means conclusive. FM is open to as much discussion and debate as is Christianity. My object is to remove some of the widely sensational claims made by protagonists. I propose to address the matter of secrets and the part the legend of Hiram Abif plays in Masonic ritual in a forthcoming post.

wow~ it's interesting how this simple question of a thread got so tremendously "high jacked".
Let's see.... the question was:
Do you believe in the freemason, illuminati, and nwo?
I don't think the question was whether or not it is a religion or an invitation to criticize people for their opinion.

My answer is:
Yes, I believe in the freemasons, illuminati, and nwo.
I believe, ultimately, they are used as "agents of/by the devil",
in our modern day to fulfill the works of the devil in the end times.

On that note, if you are a believer, dear dreamingflower, you are protected by God.
You have nothing to fear.
Here is a thread of encouragement that I started.
I pray it gives you courage, strength, and more faith in God.
http://christianforums.com/showthread.php?t=6282460

God bless you.
2 Timothy 1:7
For God has not given us a spirit of fear, but of power and of love and of a sound mind.

Isaiah 35:4
... say to those with fearful hearts, "Be strong, do not fear; your God will come, he will come with vengeance; with divine retribution he will come to save you."

Isaiah 41:10
So do not fear, for I am with you; do not be dismayed, for I am your God. I will strengthen you and help you; I will uphold you with my righteous right hand.

MauiMamma said:

wow~ it's interesting how this simple question of a thread got so tremendously "high jacked".
Let's see.... the question was:
Do you believe in the freemason, illuminati, and nwo?
I don't think the question was whether or not it is a religion or an invitation to criticize people for their opinion.

My answer is:
Yes, I believe in the freemasons, illuminati, and nwo.
I believe, ultimately, they are used as "agents of/by the devil",
in our modern day to fulfill the works of the devil in the end times.

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The illuminati are no longer around. It was actually a relatively short-lived organization.

There is no "new world order".

There are obviously Freemasons, but I don't see why you think they are "agents of the devil."

Dear DREAMINGFLOWER:
Here is another good thread on the subject:
http://christianforums.com/showthread.php?t=6809429
God bless you!!

Proverbs chapter 26:17
Getting involved in an argument that is none of your business ...

Proverbs 20:3
It is an honour for a man to cease from strife: but every fool will be meddling.

It now appropriate to talk about other features of FM which might cause some concern.

Foremost it is important to recognise that we are dealing here with a legend - a story that has little to do with history. The purpose of the story is convenient peg on which to hang a hat. Every legend needs a hero and for FM that figure is Hiram Abif (HA) - a figure who is tragically murdered during the construction of KST by three masons who demanded of him the secrets leading to a higher degree - secrets to which they were not entitled. Without going into the story in any length, those secrets were not revealed by HB and consequently were lost with him. The role of the Lodge is to discover those lost secrets.

For Masons, the legend of HB unfolds through the course of the three Degrees - a morality play in three Acts if you will. Each Degree focus' on particular aspects of the story culminating in Third Degree which enacts HA's death where the Candidate is reminded of the words of Ecclesiastes 12: 1-8 which begins, 'Remember thy Creator in the days of thy youth ...' - the moral lesson being that time is shorter than you think.

I have mentioned secrets. The greatest secret with FM is that there are no secrets - all of the supposed secrets are freely available on the web should one choose to go searching for them. There is really no big deal in all of this. As I indicated FM follows a tradition and FMs take part in that tradition with some seriousness and will not reveal those secrets - not because the secrets are no longer a secret but because they respect the tradition set by our ancient Brethren. Those secrets have to do with words, tokens and signs and nothing more. They are, as I suggested earlier, a historic relic of the operative masons.

The Obligation a FM is required to undertake is generally made on the Bible (Volume of the Sacred Law) but may be made on any other recognised Holy Scripture such as the Koran or Torah, according to the Candidates beliefs. That Obligation concerns the secrets I have outlined and despite what you may have otherwise heard there is nothing in that Obligation that makes reference to any blood curdling penalty. The only penalty available is dismissal from the Lodge.

I have indicated that there are only three Degrees within FM. There are, however, other Masonic bodies that a FM may join after passing through the Third Degree. These are know as side orders and were developed for any number of reasons by interested individual Masons after the mid 1700s. They offer additional involvement for those Masons who are interested but they do not add to the Third Degree. This causes some confusion for the uninitiated as one such side orders is known as the 33 Degree but even here, despite the impressive title, it adds nothing to the three Degrees.

This completes a brief precis of FM. And it is brief. However, while brief, I have covered those essential elements which seem to cause some anxiety.

Free Masonry is centuries old, if not eons old, yet it embraces political correctness publicly which is a halcyon song to cilvilization. There is money in it. There is odd ritual involved which is not understood by most Masons.

Free Masonry is like that group of kids that had a club in the tree house during elementary school except for now they are the richest kids in town, the tree house is the nicest building on the block, and no one knows what it is that those boys do up there.

Don't get me wrong. Publicly the Masons do a lot of good things. Its just the stuff we don't know about that makes them special that gives us cause to wonder.