Freedom or Socialism?

[MorkandMindy]

Single-payer medical is probably the most crucial issue for the public or politicians to decide in favor of freedom or socialism.

The argument for socialism is that the cost would be half as much as the existing non-system, and we know that from all the other wealthy countries, results are also a lot better.

Our forefathers, and foremothers, fought for our freedom and we all know a bit of extra money* for the health insurance companies is a small price to pay for our freedom.

*This is English Understatement - the amount of money is a thousand million dollars per year, required by the 907 health insurance companies to fill their pockets and create endless amounts of useless complexity.

Back in England I had no choice because the healthcare was all centrally funded, from my taxes which were not all that high - it was the rent for my house that was killing me.

Here everyone wants freedom is to choose which of the 907 health insurance companies to hand their money over to.

 

[MorkandMindy]

Healthcare is not the only issue, what about our electricity?

We get 110V 60 cycle (Hz) electricity at a reasonable price, 220V 60 Hz if you use both phases,

but why? It is at a cost of our freedom, we get one size fits all electricity and that is socialism creeping in somewhere else.

I want 240V 50 Hz because that's what my computer and printer both use.

What about people who have aircraft electronics and need 400 Hz power?

Everyone should get their own, choose between 500 different payment plans and get exactly what they want. It might mean running out a few more wires, well, a lot more wires, and double the costs, and lead to reliability problems, and a few fires, but it is our Constitutional right.

 

[98cwitr]

I'd like to see us get back to the point where we can simply pay out of pocket for most basic procedures without the need for medical insurance. This will require deregulation. In 1944, my grandmother paid $56 to give birth to my father in a hospital. Last year when my daughter was born, our total bill was north of $17k. Medical costs are insane and it's not due to "level of care," but the oligopoly between provider and insurers.

It is cheaper to pay for my toddler's dental visits out of pocket (ensuring he brushes his teeth every day and abstains from sugary foods/drink), than it is to get him onto my dental plan. This is due to the fact dentistry is less regulated than other healthcare fields.

We can start with repealing certificate of need laws in each state that has them.

Case in point, from left-leaning Vox: Exclusive: Surgeon sues to overturn a North Carolina law that blocks him from offering cheaper MRIs

 

[98cwitr]

Healthcare is not the only issue, what about our electricity?

We get 110V 60 cycle (Hz) electricity at a reasonable price, 220V 60 Hz if you use both phases,

but why? It is at a cost of our freedom, we get one size fits all electricity and that is socialism creeping in somewhere else.

I want 240V 50 Hz because that's what my computer and printer both use.

What about people who have aircraft electronics and need 400 Hz power?

Everyone should get their own, choose between 500 different payment plans and get exactly what they want. It might mean running out a few more wires, well, a lot more wires, and double the costs, and lead to reliability problems, and a few fires, but it is our Constitutional right.

There are plenty of examples of socialized energy failures, and I have yet to find a single national socialized energy solution that hasn't failed and left people in the dark (quite literally).

As solar comes down in price, I encourage every homeowner to get solar to the point where we are no longer dependent on a centralized power utility for our electricity needs. Neighborhood grids are IMO the future, whereas off-grid solutions are perfect for those who want independent power.

 

[MorkandMindy]

98cwitr - very true, the US left is not on the actual left but is just a more bureaucratic version of the Right.

When it comes to healthcare either the true left or the true right would work, socialized medicine works

and I'd speculate that if we could pay for Cuban or Mexican or Australian or whatever clinics and hospitals medical costs would come right down, and care would most likely also improve in a competitive situation.

But somehow for no fathomable reason our system is the one that makes the most money for the very rich.

 

[Jake Arsenal]

But somehow for no fathomable reason our system is the one that makes the most money for the very rich.

These people are in the business of profiting(increasing wealth). It seems unfathomable to expect them not to increase their wealth.
Matthew 19:24 And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.

 

[rambot]

There are plenty of examples of socialized energy failures, and I have yet to find a single national socialized energy solution that hasn't failed and left people in the dark (quite literally).

Really? I'd love to hear some of these plenty of examples. I've seen plenty of examples of capitalist societies leaving their citizens in the dark or cold (think a few weeks ago even).
To the opposite? Norway.

As solar comes down in price, I encourage every homeowner to get solar to the point where we are no longer dependent on a centralized power utility for our electricity needs. Neighborhood grids are IMO the future, whereas off-grid solutions are perfect for those who want independent power.

YES! I agree with this. Nice one! The idea of decentralizing nrg generation would be a HUGE coup for national security too.

 

[rambot]

As a sidebar, I really dislike the dichotomy presented here.

Canada is not a socialist country. In fact, there are essentially 0 socialist countries and developed countries who have socialized their medical industry are otherwise VERY much capitalist.

I will never ever understand why people support an entire system that works against SO many people just because it MIGHT work for you.

I mean, I know PLENTY of people who pay as MUCH for their private insurance as I pay on my INCOME TAX here in Canada.

I have heard very few people who would be severely hampered by socializing medicare

 

[Rene Loup]

In 1944, my grandmother paid $56 to give birth to my father in a hospital. Last year when my daughter was born, our total bill was north of $17k. Medical costs are insane and it's not due to "level of care," but the oligopoly between provider and insurers.

US$17,000.00?! Good gravy! Is this why so many people choose abortion rather than give children up for adoption?? If we're not serving Molech, then we're serving Mammon!

Inflation Calculator | Find US Dollar's Value from 1913-2021

17,000 USD to CAD | Convert US Dollars to Canadian Dollars | Xe

 

[Jake Arsenal]

As solar comes down in price, I encourage every homeowner to get solar to the point where we are no longer dependent on a centralized power utility for our electricity needs. Neighborhood grids are IMO the future, whereas off-grid solutions are perfect for those who want independent power.

Responsible homeowners generating and storing their own power has the added benefit of a reduction in waste because when you are responsible for the care and maintenance of something, it makes you think twice about how you use it.

 

[rambot]

I read a hospital will CHARGE you to hold your new born baby (38$ on the receipt I saw).

That is beyond.... well actually. I can't put a good word there....

 

[Fantine]

If your idea of freedom is like Janis Joplin's: Freedom's just another word for nothin' left to lose...

then I guess that kind of freedom appeals to you. We all know how Janis Joplin ended up, dead of a heroin overdose at age 27.

Guess that's why she was singin' the blues.

But humans are social creatures, and history has taught us that there is power in sharing, in working together, in building societies.

Yes, it means relinquishing control, and sometimes governments or authorities make mistakes. We saw that during the violent snowstorms last month.

The state of Texas, in their desire to be "free" from burdensome regulations, built windmills without insulation that froze (while the windmills in Iceland were powering along in far worse weather.) They also wanted their gas and coal plants to be "free" from burdensome regulations--and they failed, too.

They had their own electrical grid so they could be "free" of having to share with other states, and so when their grid went down, no one was able to come to their rescue. People died. People were without electricity for over a week. People were burning their paintings and wall hangings in fireplaces to keep warm.

A senator on recess who had a "free" week decided to flee his powerless, freezing state and fly to Cancun.

They were fortunate. Their president didn't say, "I told you so." He helped them.

We all need freedom, but we also need connections.

 

[Ringo84]

"Freedom or socialism"? Seems to me that """socialized""" health care would free people from being one or two big medical bills away from medical bankruptcy - a thing that I'm not sure exists in many other 'first world' countries except for our own.

We need universal health care.
Ringo

 

[SimplyMe]

The false dichotomy here bothers me, as a Universal health care system is not "socialism," in fact it won't necessarily be socialist. Instead, the most common proposals are to make "Medicare for all," which at most provides the government paying for people's private health care. It likely doesn't even get rid of insurance companies, as Medicare allows people to purchase private insurance to supplement their Medicare plans (add coverage for things not covered by Medicare).

 

[MorkandMindy]

...

I mean, I know PLENTY of people who pay as MUCH for their private insurance as I pay on my INCOME TAX here in Canada.

I have heard very few people who would be severely hampered by socializing medicare

Very true, it was because the lower class in Britain was so very poor that the British set up the National Health Service in 1948 - because Britain had been so right wing for so long it needed socialized medicine, and because the US had been a Democratic Socialist country from FDR to the late 1960s or so that the US did not need socialized medicine.

The public is definitely for socialized medicine but the government and the rich are totally against it so I don't know how we will ever get it.

Only 11% of Republicans and 1% of Democrats don't want the government involved in medical care.

 

[MorkandMindy]

The choice after that is simple - there are many variants of socialized medicine but they aren't really all that different, it is the US commission-based system that stands apart as doing very badly on both price and performance.

 

[MorkandMindy]

"Freedom or socialism"? Seems to me that """socialized""" health care would free people from being one or two big medical bills away from medical bankruptcy - a thing that I'm not sure exists in many other 'first world' countries except for our own.

We need universal health care.
Ringo

So very true. I was in England 42 years and never had any concerns about healthcare and now I have almost nothing but.

 

[MorkandMindy]

The false dichotomy here bothers me, as a Universal health care system is not "socialism," in fact it won't necessarily be socialist. Instead, the most common proposals are to make "Medicare for all," which at most provides the government paying for people's private health care. It likely doesn't even get rid of insurance companies, as Medicare allows people to purchase private insurance to supplement their Medicare plans (add coverage for things not covered by Medicare).

It's very true that it's a false dichotomy, being robbed blind by the lobbyists who run the country is not freedom.

I used it because it appears to match their narrative and they will lose even using their own story. 94% of Americans do not want the government removed from healthcare, but sowing just an odd bit of doubt and then amplifying it by using party polarization they could jam this vital repair to the US economy.

Here is an ex healthcare insurance addressing the question:

 

[rambot]

The choice after that is simple - there are many variants of socialized medicine but they aren't really all that different, it is the US commission-based system that stands apart as doing very badly on both price and performance.

View attachment 296477

Wow. That is actually really shocking. Thanks for sharing

 

[Pommer]

Conservatives’ concern that the liberals will use government as a means to be a “wealth-redistribution” is well founded because that’s how you prevent revolutions from occurring.

Wealth accrues at the top and that, in turn, is transferred to political power, keeping the money flowing the the “right direction”.
Government is there, in part, to prevent this from developing.
But the Top never recognizes this fact until it’s “too late”.