Freedom or Socialism?

[iluvatar5150]

Not in 1944...and definitely not in Alabama!

Did Alabama not have government-run or church-run hospitals in the 1940's?

 

[Tanj]

Based on the definition, compulsory taxes are "out of pocket" and therefore there were, in fact, "out of pocket" medical costs for you. The government just hides that perception via the taxation process.

It's not hidden, it's right there in black and white on the ATO and other gov pages. Australia spends roughly the same % of its tax revenue on healthcare as the USA (~ 25%). The difference is we get no-further-expense primary and secondary healthcare, and you get $17 500 medical bills for having babies.

ETA we also have almost identical average tax rates, ~ 24% for the average person.

 

[MorkandMindy]

Yes, roughly speaking the US healthcare maze costs twice as much to run and the government pays a bit over half of the total cost,

so with a sensible healthcare system the government would save some money and the population would not have to contribute any money, apart from what it already pays through the government.

There would be a multitude of repercussions but overall the result would beneficial.

 

[98cwitr]

It's not hidden, it's right there in black and white on the ATO and other gov pages. Australia spends roughly the same % of its tax revenue on healthcare as the USA (~ 25%). The difference is we get no-further-expense primary and secondary healthcare, and you get $17 500 medical bills for having babies.

ETA we also have almost identical average tax rates, ~ 24% for the average person.

So what's the total bill in AU that is charged to your government for giving birth?

 

[Tanj]

So what's the total bill in AU that is charged to your government for giving birth?

I have no idea. What does it matter? Generally speaking as I understand it fee structures are set by an independent body. As I pointed out above, for the US and Australia the average person pays about the same tax, and the governments spend about the same percent of tax revenue on healthcare. For that Australians are covered from conception in a system that has little to no extra fees, whereas most Americans derive no coverage at all.

 

[Pommer]

I have no idea. What does it matter? as I pointed out above, for the US and Australia
average person pays about the same tax, and the governments spend about the same percent of tax revenue on healthcare. For that Australians are covered from conception in a system that has little to no extra fees, whereas most Americans derive no coverage at all.

When I go to the local pizza shop for dinner, they sometimes have a collection jar for Little Johnny or Susie to raise funds for the cancer treatments (or transplant of some kind or other).
You have that in Australia?

 

[Tanj]

When I go to the local pizza shop for dinner, they sometimes have a collection jar for Little Johnny or Susie to raise funds for the cancer treatments (or transplant of some kind or other).
You have that in Australia?

For individual treatments no, I've never seen anything like that here.

 

[Trogdor the Burninator]

So what's the total bill in AU that is charged to your government for giving birth?

My guess is somewhere around $5-8k. It's possible to look it up by the scheduled rates and add them up if you're really keen

Note TN.4.5 | Medicare Benefits Schedule

 

[98cwitr]

I have no idea. What does it matter? Generally speaking as I understand it fee structures are set by an independent body. As I pointed out above, for the US and Australia the average person pays about the same tax, and the governments spend about the same percent of tax revenue on healthcare. For that Australians are covered from conception in a system that has little to no extra fees, whereas most Americans derive no coverage at all.

It matters because the bill still has to be paid. Just because it's collectively done via taxation doesn't make high medical costs magically ok.

Yes, I pay into Medicare and am not even allowed to use it. I want to opt out.

Most (~88-90%) Americans have health coverage: Who Are the Uninsured?

Some are voluntarily uninsured because they are healthy but have the means to pay out of pocket for medical expenditures.

 

[98cwitr]

Did Alabama not have government-run or church-run hospitals in the 1940's?

Yep, it was a catholic hospital founded in 1898. I always promote the ideal that the government need not be in the business of Church functions.

 

[iluvatar5150]

Yep, it was a catholic hospital founded in 1898. I always promote the ideal that the government need not be in the business of Church functions.

So it was subsidized by charity.

Comparing the prices then and there to prices today in an entirely different (likely for-profit) context is meaningless.

 

[Landon Caeli]

Healthcare is not the only issue, what about our electricity?

We get 110V 60 cycle (Hz) electricity at a reasonable price, 220V 60 Hz if you use both phases,

but why? It is at a cost of our freedom, we get one size fits all electricity and that is socialism creeping in somewhere else.

I want 240V 50 Hz because that's what my computer and printer both use.

What about people who have aircraft electronics and need 400 Hz power?

Everyone should get their own, choose between 500 different payment plans and get exactly what they want. It might mean running out a few more wires, well, a lot more wires, and double the costs, and lead to reliability problems, and a few fires, but it is our Constitutional right.

If you want 240 volts, you'll have to call an electrician and have your house rewired... But the power company will give you whatever voltage your home requires.

Most people have 120/240 V services feeding their home. I recommend rewiring your house and upgrading to a 100 amp panel at least.

...I'd recommend adding solar while you're at it.

 

[98cwitr]

So it was subsidized by charity.

Comparing the prices then and there to prices today in an entirely different (likely for-profit) context is meaningless.

Sure was. No need for the government to be in the business of charity; that's the Church's job.

Not really. Just look at St. Jude's

 

[MorkandMindy]

If you want 240 volts, you'll have to call an electrician and have your house rewired... But the power company will give you whatever voltage your home requires.

110 V dc - the Edison original

Most people have 120/240 V services feeding their home. I recommend rewiring your house and upgrading to a 100 amp panel at least...

To try to keep the health insurance analogy going, everyone's electric bills with be proportioned out, they pay 55% of the electric generating cost, one rate to the coal plant up in the NW, a different one to the solar farm, a bit to the hydro electric and some to the nuclear and some to the natural gas fired one, and 20% toward power distribution and another bill for administration and 25% profit to the company and sundry middlemen. There will be 600 plans to choose between and all are bad value.

There will be no one size fits all public option, just a complete mess of private ones, that's Freedom.

 

[98cwitr]

110 V dc - the Edison original



To try to keep the health insurance analogy going, everyone's electric bills with be proportioned out, they pay 55% of the electric generating cost, one rate to the coal plant up in the NW, a different one to the solar farm, a bit to the hydro electric and some to the nuclear and some to the natural gas fired one, and 20% toward power distribution and another bill for administration and 25% profit to the company and sundry middlemen. There will be 600 plans to choose between and all are bad value.

There will be no one size fits all public option, just a complete mess of private ones, that's Freedom.

Why can't I just buy solar panels and go off-grid?

 

[Landon Caeli]

110 V dc - the Edison original

Wow. That's amazing, I didn't know there were DC circuits in use, aside from light rail.

 

[Landon Caeli]

Why can't I just buy solar panels and go off-grid?

I saw this one a couple weeks ago, the entire roof was a solar panel... Those are glass tiles.

 

[MorkandMindy]

As the electric supply analogy shows, you can have variety if you pay for it, and fairly low cost standard 110/220 60Hz supply as well, and people will choose what is cheapest and most appropriate to our needs.

The problem is there isn't a public option for many people in healthcare.

Obama bunked out on that one, his new plan covered pre-existing conditions but otherwise was just more of the same. After getting through the government selection process I was faced with choosing bronze, silver, gold, or platinum which was a matter of predicting how much use I would make of the plan in the future, to pick a lower premium with higher deductible or vice versa.

And then choosing among a bunch of private healthcare plans, none of the plans I could pick between was rated above 2 stars out of 5, most had 0.

Jan 1 as planned my card arrived, with a letter to book my PHP which I did for early Feb, and went to the appointment and my card was refused, it wasn't valid yet despite being printed with start date 01/01/2021

It is still private healthcare with all the quirks and problems,

that's why we would really like to have a public option, like there is with electricity, unless you live in Texas.

 

[MorkandMindy]

Most of the services we receive are low cost (I hope) high reliability (ditto) and standardized.


The water supplied to buildings is... water. Some range of psi, you get what you get. Add a pump if you want more, a pressure regulator if you want less, if you want fizz you add your own.

There isn't a bronze plan, a silver plan etc, there aren't a gillion expensive plans.

But in a nearby hospital there are more administrators than there are in patients.

The ambulance may be paid one way, time waiting in the Emergency Room another, the doctor may be out of network or in network, you'll find out when you're billed, other staff up to a certain cost and then proportioned in a different way after some deductible, other charges, lab charges, medication has it's own charge, usually a lot more than you expect ...

 

[MorkandMindy]

Primary care in England is simple, the doctor is paid 80,000 dollars per year, has usually between 2,000 and 2,200 patients, so that comes out 40 dollars per patient per year.

For my yearly check, ECG, and most blood tests are taken at the primary care office and many measured there too. These are entered into the computer and are there in front of the doctor half an hour later for review at a quick meeting with the doctor.

I was out of the building with medications reviewed and re-prescribed within the hour, and yes, the ECG was acceptable.

Here in the US I had a long and pointless meeting ticking boxes mainly, then an appointment somewhere else to get blood drawn, no ECG not sure why, and then no subsequent meeting. The cost was huge.