8 He has chosen us in Him from before the foundation of the world that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love. Ephesians 1:4.
9 He is making us into a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that we should be holy and without blemish. Ephesians 5:27.
10 He sanctifies and cleanses us with the washing of water by the word—and His blood also sanctifieth us and cleanseth us from all sin. Ephesians 5:26, Hebrews 13:12, 1 John 1:7.
Well, from your perspective I can see how you view these verses as a whole, but I know it is not what the Bible says. For you believe Christ wipes away all our future sin (whereby if we happen to sin we are already forgiven so there is no need to confess sin so as to be forgiven as 1 John 1:9 says). Somehow you think that your belief on the Savior and that He pays for all future sin will lead you to walk uprightly. Now, while walking uprightly is very important and the Bible does teach this, you are also condoning that you can sin and still be saved on some small level because you said before you can break God’s laws and not be under any condemnation. But how does that work in the real world? Can you be unfaithful with your wife and expect a great relationship to be the fruits thereof? Can you say that you can drink a little as a part of your recovery in becoming sober? Surely not.
Anyways, with the exception of Hebrews 13:12, the verses that you quote above here deal with holy living. We both do not appear to disagree that we must live holy. What we disagree on the foundation of the gospel. Jesus’s death provides a way for us to be forgiven of past sin, but His death does not forgive of us future sin. His grace is not a license for immorality for even a short amount of time or for when we stumble. If we sin, we are in danger with God. If not, then all those passages on fear in your Bible do not mean anything.
You said:
11 He gave Himself for us that He might redeem us from all iniquity and purify unto Himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works. Titus 2:14.
Yes, this is the reason why Jesus died on the cross. He died so as to make the church holy, without blemish and zealous of good works. That is the end goal. But one cannot do this if they think they can break God’s laws and still be saved as some kind of safety net to begin with.
You said:
12 To him that worketh not, but believeth on Him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted to him as righteousness. Romans 4:5.
Paul is arguing against “Circumcision Salvationism.” In Romans 3, he says, “What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision?” (Romans 3:1).
So when Paul says, “to him that works not, but believes on Him that justify the ungodly (with them living ungodly in the past tense), his faith is counted to him as righteousness” He is referring to Works Alone Salvationism without God’s grace and or mercy. Christians technically are saved entirely by God’s works both in Justification and in Sanctification. So it would be true that the believer can be identified as, “To him that works not” because it is God who works through them after they are forgiven of their past sin by believing in Him as their Savior.
Paul is trying to refute the idea of those who believe in Circumcision Salvationism. Certain Pharisees were trying to deceive believers into thinking they have to start of their faith so as to get saved by being circumcised. “To him who works not” is the context of trying to refute this heresy. It is not a truth that is expressed over the whole life of the believer. It cannot be the case, because we see elsewhere that the Bible teaches that we are saved by works after being saved by God’s grace through faith. Paul is talking about “Justification” (belief) as a part of the faith as being a necessary foundation to have for our salvation. But we also need to have works, too. If not, then our faith is dead (See James 2:17). Anyways, Paul’s point here is “Initial Salvation” because he is trying to refute the idea of “Circumcision Salvationism” (Which deals with how one needs to be first circumcised in order to be saved). Paul draws from the time when Abraham believed or trusted in God and how that belief was imputed to him as righteousness. However, Paul was not saying that works should not follow a true faith or belief in God.
I mean, surely Romans 4:5 cannot mean we are reprobate unto every good work.
Titus 1:16 says,
They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.
If you were to look at Romans 2, you would see that the context he is talking about is the law. For all of Romans 2 deals with the law and Romans 3 deals with how all men have sinned whereby they need a Savior. We know that Romans 4:5 cannot be in support of a belief that says, "I want to live my life and sin as I please and still be saved" (Whether it be a little bit of sin or a lot of sin). Paul asks the question in Romans 6, shall we continue in sin because we are not under the Law (i.e. the Law of Moses)? Paul answers that question with, "God forbid." Meaning, you can't do so.
So what is Romans 4:5 talking about? What kind of work is it referring to? It is referring to the work that one would do according to the Law of Moses. For surely it is never wrong to obey the words of Jesus. Nor are we to think we are our own masteres thinking that Jesus' commands were optional. Jesus said, why do you call me Lord, Lord, and do not do what I say?
Yes, we are not saved by performing alone. We are saved by God's grace because if we mess up we repent of our sins and be forgiven of sin and can be cleansed of all unrighteousness (1 John 1:9).
When a person repents of their sins, then God does the work thru them (See Ezekiel 36:26-27). It is about transformation and yielding to the work God does in you. Salvation is a person. For he that has the Son has life and he that does not have the Son does not have life (1 John 5:12). Salvation is about Relationship-ism. Salvation is not Antinomianism (i.e. where folks ignore the moral law in the New Testament); Nor is Salvation ..... Works Alone Salvationism. We are saved by God's grace. But if there is no fruit in our lives (works), then how can we say we abide with God? Paul says examine your own selves and prove that Christ be in you, unless you be reprobates (2 Corinthians 13:5).
In other words, when a person obeys Jesus, they are yielding to the work He wants to do in them. It is not about you trying to save yourself. It is merely choosing to abide with Christ and His good ways versus your own way and sin.
You said:
13 Therefore it is not by works of righteousness which we have done, but y His mercy that He has saved us, through the washing of regeneration and the renewing of the Holy Ghost. Titus 3:5.
We are saved by the washing and regeneration and renewing of the Holy Ghost. When does this happen? It happens when we are born again by the Spirit. It is a one time event. So Titus 3:5 is talking about “Initial Salvation.”
You said:
14 And faith without works is dead, because all who have been saved through faith are transformed within and this produces behavior conducive to good works.
This is true. Although we are given a new heart with new desires, the good works are actually the Lord working in us and it is not something we can take the credit for.
You said:
15 If I sin willfully after receiving the full knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, but only a fearful expectation of the judgment and fiery indignation that will consume the enemies of God.
Please take note that I addressed this verse in my previous post.
You said:
16 Jesus said, All that the Father giveth me shall come to me: and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
As for John 6:38-39: This is what the passage says in context,
John 6:37-40
37 "All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.
39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day."
First, what does Jesus mean by,
“All that the Father giveth me come to me?”
Well, we have to understand that the Father elects those based on His future foreknowledge of our free will choice concerning Him (
1 Peter 1:2) (
Deuteronomy 30:19). Also, we also have to understand that not everyone is going to be saved; However, it is God's will that all people should be saved, though (
1 Timothy 2:4) (
2 Peter 3:9) (
Revelation 22:17). This is why we read in Scripture about how many are called, but few are chosen (
Matthew 20:16).
Same meanings since all are given the chance to have life through Jesus. But those who are His have come so willingly in faith, repenting and turning with a sincere heart; forever to the submission of God’s commandments and desires.
Verse 39 implies that it is possible for Jesus to lose some of the flock. If it were not so, He would have said so. But if what you say is true, then Jesus would have said,
"I WILL lose nothing."
However, that is not what Jesus said. Jesus says,
"I SHOULD lose nothing."
John 6:39
"And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day."
You can double check it for yourself here,
John 6 (King James)
Second, eternal life here is not a guarantee. Jesus says in verse 40
"MAY have everlasting life".
John 6:40
"And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him,
may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day."
In other words, Jesus should lose none and all who are His should be raised, because they should all continue in the righteousness God gave them through the sacrifice of Jesus. It’s not that Jesus isn’t capable of keeping up with His sheep; it’s that He never keeps His sheep against their wills. How so?
Well, we see in Scripture that the Father gave all of the disciples to Jesus; However, Jesus kept them all except Judas, though.
John 17:12 - "While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled."
Now, allow me to rephrase this in modern-terminology:
While I was with the marbles in the world, I kept them. Those marbles that you gave me I kept, and none are lost, but the green marble.
And OSAS terminology:
While I was with the marbles in the world, I kept them. Those marbles that you gave me I kept, and none are lost, except for the green marble that you never gave me.
Do you see now how OSAS doesn't make any sense?
Source Used:
http://conditionalsalvation.com/yahoo_site_admin/assets/docs/Eternal_Security.2593556.pdf
