Free Masons

ProudMason · May 18, 2013

Ive been reading some of these forums about Freemasons, and Our fraternity being an occult,ABSOLUTELY POSITIVELY NOT TRUE!!!, if you know better however you would know in all actuality Christianity under any branch is a offspring of freemasonry.

Rhamiel · May 18, 2013

ProudMason said:
Ive been reading some of these forums about Freemasons, and Our fraternity being an occult,ABSOLUTELY POSITIVELY NOT TRUE!!!, if you know better however you would know in all actuality Christianity under any branch is a offspring of freemasonry.

see this is what gets me about freemasonry

we get told time and time again not to get caught up in conspiracy theories

then we get some Masons who pretend like their group is thousands of years old...
this is kind of like wanting to have your cake and eat it too

anyways, I am a Roman Catholic
my Church was founded by Jesus Christ, true God and true Man
and through the ages it has been faithful to His teachings through an unbroken line of Bishops

the Church is called to preach to all the nations
to make converts for Christ from the 4 corners of the globe
we are not the offspring of a secret society
because secrets are anathema to us
we are called to preach the good news to everyone
not hide away our knowledge in a Lodge
The Church is egalitarian in that all people, all ages, all races, can join the Church
the Lodge is elitist in that only a select few can learn the secrets

Simpleman25 · May 18, 2013

Rhamiel said:
see this is what gets me about freemasonry

we get told time and time again not to get caught up in conspiracy theories

then we get some Masons who pretend like their group is thousands of years old...
this is kind of like wanting to have your cake and eat it too

anyways, I am a Roman Catholic
my Church was founded by Jesus Christ, true God and true Man
and through the ages it has been faithful to His teachings through an unbroken line of Bishops

the Church is called to preach to all the nations
to make converts for Christ from the 4 corners of the globe
we are not the offspring of a secret society
because secrets are anathema to us
we are called to preach the good news to everyone
not hide away our knowledge in a Lodge
The Church is egalitarian in that all people, all ages, all races, can join the Church
the Lodge is elitist in that only a select few can learn the secrets

We have some common ground here. For any mason to claim that we predate Jesus, it's blasphemous.

The lodge is anything but elitist. The problem is we don't openly recruit. All any man has to do is ask one of us.

You can't call masons elitist as you have stated, we accept men of all faiths.

Some call my home lodge elitist for only accepting Christians. That may be true. My allegiance is also to the Holy Trinity.

BlackBearFamily · May 18, 2013

Simpleman25 said:
If I offended you I apologise. I'm not calling your father a liar. That is not my intent. If masonry wasn't for him, he was right in leaving.

If he feared the oaths then he wasn't properly educated by the lodge he was in. There are men on this forum that left masonry. Yet none of them have been injured by the oaths. There are many men worldwide that have left, no one carried out the oaths.

No worries, you did not offend me. What I was trying to say was, in effect, "This is not a story I got from someone somewhere, but rather an explanation I got straight from my father, and in some detail." Sometimes, people pop off with Urban Legends, and I wanted to emphasize that this was not the case.

My understanding is that the 'scary' part of the oath is regarding what would be done to the Mason - and his family, including his children - if he were to ever reveal any of the Masonic secrets to a non-Mason. Isn't there such a clause in an oath? (Or maybe you are not allowed to say?)

Simpleman25 · May 18, 2013

BlackBearFamily said:
No worries, you did not offend me. What I was trying to say was, in effect, "This is not a story I got from someone somewhere, but rather an explanation I got straight from my father, and in some detail." Sometimes, people pop off with Urban Legends, and I wanted to emphasize that this was not the case.

My understanding is that the 'scary' part of the oath is regarding what would be done to the Mason - and his family, including his children - if he were to ever reveal any of the Masonic secrets to a non-Mason. Isn't there such a clause in an oath? (Or maybe you are not allowed to say?)

That's why I question what your father was talking about. The penalties are to the mason himself, not any family member.

Some evangelical folks like to imply that there is a curse to the masons family. That's why I brought up the conspiracy comment.

BlackBearFamily · May 18, 2013

Simpleman25 said:
That's why I question what your father was talking about. The penalties are to the mason himself, not any family member.

I am not a Mason and so can only quote my 32nd degree Grandfather and my Blue Lodge Mason father.

Searching_for_Christ · May 18, 2013

You readily admit that joining the masons means to bring curses upon yourself if you leave?

Simpleman25 · May 18, 2013

BlackBearFamily said:
I am not a Mason and so can only quote my 32nd degree Grandfather and my Blue Lodge Mason father.

All you have to do is Google Masonic oaths and read for yourself.

Simpleman25 · May 18, 2013

Searching_for_Christ said:
You readily admit that joining the masons means to bring curses upon yourself if you leave?

That's not what I said. I said the oaths speak only of penalty to the individual mason, not to their family. I also said that the penalties were symbolic and are not carried out to those thatl leave the fraternity.

There are many that have left yet no penalty was used on them.

BlackBearFamily · May 18, 2013

Simpleman25 said:
All you have to do is Google Masonic oaths and read for yourself.

Given that all of this is supposed to be a secret, I tend to wonder whether anything I've 'googled' is correct.

BlackBearFamily · May 18, 2013

Simpleman25 said:
There are many that have left yet no penalty was used on them.

I'm not asking about the penalty for leaving the Masonic order, I'm referring to the supposed violent penalties for telling Masonic secrets to a non-Mason.

Aren't there violent penalties for revealing the secrets? These were the issues that my father told me about.

Simpleman25 · May 18, 2013

Most of what you can Google now is correct. As I've been saying, men have left and exposed the secret oaths. Yet nothing had been done to them for breaking the oath.

Yes the penalties are violent. But they are not carried out. That's the issue I'm trying to inform you about. That's why they are symbolic. We refer to ourselves as speculative masons. Whereas the original masons were operative masons. In their time it was an issue to share the secrets of the trade.

That's part of the reason why we can prove that speculative masons only go back to the late 1600's to early 1700's. Operative masons predate Christ, not speculative masons.

MikeK · May 18, 2013

Searching_for_Christ said:
You readily admit that joining the masons means to bring curses upon yourself if you leave?

I have no use for Freemasonry. I would mention though, that there exist many people in the world who would ask you the same question about Christianity.

BlackBearFamily · May 18, 2013

Simpleman25 said:
Most of what you can Google now is correct. As I've been saying, men have left and exposed the secret oaths. Yet nothing had been done to them for breaking the oath.

Yes the penalties are violent. But they are not carried out. That's the issue I'm trying to inform you about. That's why they are symbolic. We refer to ourselves as speculative masons. Whereas the original masons were operative masons. In their time it was an issue to share the secrets of the trade.

That's part of the reason why we can prove that speculative masons only go back to the late 1600's to early 1700's. Operative masons predate Christ, not speculative masons.

Oh, I see. OK. Thank you for explaining.

Lepanto · May 19, 2013

Simpleman25 said:
There are no such thing as a higher group of masons. Masons are comprised of three degrees commonly known as the blue lodge.

Don't believe all the nonsense you hear.

What you said is not true. What you know of Freemasonry (the three degrees) is only the front facade of Freemasonry.

What the people said in this thread are only part of the reasons that the Church condemned Freemasonry, it's more than that. But I am not going to say anymore. Listen to what Saint Pius X said ...

Simpleman25 · May 19, 2013

Lepanto said:
What you said is not true. What you know of Freemasonry (the three degrees) is only the front facade of Freemasonry.

What the people said in this thread are only part of the reasons that the Church condemned Freemasonry, it's more than that. But I am not going to say anymore. Listen to what Saint Pius X said ...

I'm as high up as you can get in masonry. You can't say anymore because there's nothing to say. Other than trumped up conspiracy theories that have no facts whatsoever.

GutenbergPrintPress1454 · May 20, 2013

"The great strength of our order lies in its concealment. Never let it appear in any place in its own name..."

- Adam Weishaupt

Rhamiel · May 20, 2013

GutenbergPrintPress1454 said:
"The great strength of our order lies in its concealment. Never let it appear in any place in its own name..."

- Adam Weishaupt

very good point

here is another point
many diverse churches and denominations have spoken out against Freemasonry
as the old saying goes, where there is smoke, their is fire
if a normal explenation can not be given as to why so many christian groups fear freemasonry then we should accept that there is something suspect about the group

Rhamiel · May 20, 2013

it sounds like you are a very good Freemason

Gnarwhal · May 20, 2013

Actually no, the rules of Christian Forums explicitly state that you cannot debate in the congregational forums (I.e. "One Bread, One Body" the Catholic section of the forum) unless you belong to the group for which the sub-forum in question is designated, in this case Roman Catholics, which you aren't.

Congregational Forum Restrictions, Christian Only Forums, and Off-Topic posts
Do not teach or debate in any Congregational Forum unless you are truly a member and share its core beliefs and teachings. Questions and fellowship are allowed, proselytizing is not.

Do not post in the forums reserved for Christians only, unless you are truly a Nicene Creed, Trinitarian Christian (please see our Statement of Faith to know exactly what that is). If you wish to discuss unorthodox doctrines, you may do so in Unorthodox Theology.

Respect and become familiar with each forum's Statement of Purpose. Start threads that are relevant to that forum's stated purpose; submit replies that are relevant to the topic of discussion. Off Topic posts will be moved or removed.

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