Franklin Graham faces a Brit of intolerance - censored

[Shiloh Raven]

I wonder why you think abuse is acceptable.

Franklin Graham does not "overlook" offensive behaviour ... and he has made that abundantly clear. What he believes is that God will use Trump to help protect the practice of Christian faith. King Solomon had his vices but God used him to build the temple.

And that temple was eventually completely destroyed. Not a good example, if you ask me, unless you're suggesting that God will use Trump to destroy America or Trump is the catalyst that will lead to the eventual destruction of America. But I don't think that suggestion was on your mind to begin with.

 

[Shiloh Raven]

Graham isn't blind and deaf, so he had to have seen and heard all of Donny's bad behavior. Those who are truly repenting from bad behavior "go and sin no more". Donny has not changed any of his behavior, regardless of his "apology"; if anything, he's worse now than he was before the election.

It seems to me that overlooking bad behavior because "the ends justify the means" probably makes Graham as guilty as the person whose behavior he is conveniently excusing for expedience.
Ringo

I'm rather confident that it's a bad behavior that will be excused and dismissed until after Trump is out of office and if the next President elected is a liberal Democrat. I think that's when we'll see a swift return of the moral indignation from many conservative Christians over the President's immoral behavior and the repulsive reaction toward the President's deviant behavior and sexual scandals.

 

[creslaw]

Graham isn't blind and deaf, so he had to have seen and heard all of Donny's bad behavior. Those who are truly repenting from bad behavior "go and sin no more". Donny has not changed any of his behavior, regardless of his "apology"; if anything, he's worse now than he was before the election.

It seems to me that overlooking bad behavior because "the ends justify the means" probably makes Graham as guilty as the person whose behavior he is conveniently excusing for expedience.
Ringo

No one is overlooking or excusing bad behaviour. Franklin has made that clear.

 

[creslaw]

And that temple was eventually completely destroyed. Not a good example, if you ask me, unless you're suggesting that God will use Trump to destroy America or Trump is the catalyst that will lead to the eventual destruction of America. But I don't think that suggestion was on your mind to begin with.

If you do not believe that the temple was constructed according to God's plan for the people to worship Him, then I suggest you read the story again. God used Solomon for the task in spite of his faults. God also raised up pharaoh so his plan could be fulfilled (Romans 9:16-17). Those with spiritual insight will understand God's will (Ephesians 5:17).

 

[Shiloh Raven]

Let's take a look at Franklin Graham's moral inconsistencies between his comments on Bill Clinton's sexual scandals in 1998 versus his comments on Donald Trump's sexual scandals in 2018.

Franklin Graham condemning Bill Clinton in 1998:

"Bill Clinton's months-long extramarital sexual behavior in the Oval Office now concerns him and the rest of the world, not just his immediate family. If he will lie to or mislead his wife and daughter, those with whom he is most intimate, what will prevent him from doing the same to the American public?" (What Franklin Graham Said About the “Private Sins” of Bill Clinton in 1998)

Franklin Graham defending Donald Trump in 2018:

“I think some of these things — that’s for him and his wife to deal with. I think when the country went after President Clinton, the Republicans, that was a great mistake that should never have happened. And I think the same with Stormy Daniels and so forth is nobody’s business. And we’ve got other business at hand that we need to deal with.” (Article linked below in the excerpt)

Article excerpt: Evangelist Franklin Graham Says Donald Trump's Alleged Affair Is 'Nobody's Business'

But Graham seems to have forgotten that he was one of the people who went after Clinton for his affair, penning a commentary piece for the Wall Street Journal in 1998 titled “Clinton's Sins Aren't Private.” "Much of America seems to have succumbed to the notion that what a person does in private has little bearing on his public actions or job performance, even if he is the president of the United States,” Graham writes, in a sentence that could just as easily apply today to the opposite end of the political spectrum. (End of the article excerpt)

Evangelist Franklin Graham seems to have had a change of heart on the moral issue if the President's marital infidelity concerns the rest of the world or if it's no one else's business. Based upon Graham's own words, I think I can fairly assume that this moral issue will solely depend upon if he politically supports that particular President or not. Franklin Graham, like James Dobson, seems to sway with the political tide on which moral issues concerning the President he will be morally indignant over depending upon who the President is at that particular time and if he supports that President.

James Dobson condemning Bill Clinton in 1998:

"Character does matter. You can't run a family, let alone a country without it. How foolish to believe that a person who lacks honesty and moral integrity is qualified to lead a nation and the world."
(I’m an evangelical. The religious right leaders who support Trump don’t speak for me.)

James Dobson defending Donald Trump in 2016:

"I’m not under any illusions that he is an outstanding moral example. It’s a cliché but true: We are electing a commander-in-chief, not a theologian-in-chief.”
(What James Dobson Said in 1998 About Moral Character and the Presidency)

 

[Basil the Great]

I didn't realize Franklin was still preaching, I thought he'd gone full-time GOP/Trump political apologist.

I did not realize that he was still preaching either.

 

[creslaw]

The difference between Clinton & Trump is that Clinton committed gross indecency with a subordinate while holding the office of President. He used his role as president to take advantage of "that woman".

Franklin Graham has never tried to excuse Trump's faults. With only two candidates to choose from, Graham endorsed the one who is more likely to protect the practice of the Christian faith. With increasing opposition to the expression of Christianity in the community (eg, Masterpiece Bakery; banning of the Harvest Crusade ads) such protection is becoming more necessary.

 

[Ringo84]

Trump has been using his role as president to benefit himself and his family members. He has used the bully pulpit of the presidency to hurl insults at veterans, Mexicans, and others that he doesn't like. He has implemented a cruel policy that separates children from their families and locks them away in detention camps in the desert, several to a cage, where they're not even allowed to have human contact with each other.

Graham has said nothing while all this has been happening.

But please keep telling me about how Trump, a thrice (or is it twice?) divorced, woman groping, foul-mouthed con man who has failed to pay contractors and lawyers he hired, is the man to "protect the practice of the Christian faith". I'm all ears.

Frankly, I think that if Satan himself ran for office with an R at the end of his name, promising to "protect" the Christian faith, there would be a significant number of self-professed Christians who would venture out through hell, high water or the eye of a tornado to vote for him. Some are very easily fooled.
Ringo

 

[creslaw]

Franklin Graham has clearly stated how he believes God will use Trump to protect the practice of traditional Christianity, and that is through appointments to the Supreme Court (see post #33). It is sad that Graham's critics so often fault him for what he did not say rather than what he did say.

The fruit of Graham's ministry is that many find saving grace through Jesus Christ, many are delivered from a life of crime and addiction, and many believers are encouraged & strengthened in their Christian walk. It would be prudent for critics to heed Gamaliel's wise words in Acts 5v38-39. (Therefore, in the present case I advise you: Leave these men alone! Let them go! For if their purpose or activity is of human origin, it will fail.But if it is from God, you will not be able to stop these men; you will only find yourselves fighting against God.)

 

[ViaCrucis]

Today the traditional Scriptural perspective of homosexuality is considered hate speech.

No, the modernistic hate speech against LGBTQ persons is considered hate speech. That some try and read that back into Scripture is their own error, it is not the fault of Holy Scripture that people read their own prejudices into it. Just like it wasn't the fault of Scripture that many tried to read antisemitism and racism into it.

Don't blame God's word because you hate people who are different.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[creslaw]

No, the modernistic hate speech against LGBTQ persons is considered hate speech. That some try and read that back into Scripture is their own error, it is not the fault of Holy Scripture that people read their own prejudices into it. Just like it wasn't the fault of Scripture that many tried to read antisemitism and racism into it.
Don't blame God's word because you hate people who are different.
-CryptoLutheran

Accusations of hate just make you lose all credibility. No Christian poster in these forums has expressed hatred towards homosexuals any more than they have towards those who commit adultery or those who are greedy & selfish. Homosexuality receives more attention because it is argued that it is no longer a sin.

 

[ViaCrucis]

Accusations of hate just make you lose all credibility. No Christian poster in these forums has expressed hatred towards homosexuals any more than they have towards those who commit adultery or those who are greedy & selfish. Homosexuality receives more attention because it is argued that it is no longer a sin.

That must be why people hold rallies, make signs, and try to push to make adultery illegal. I mean, all those "God hates adulterers" signs, I mean, they're all over the place. And all that effort to try and keep adulterers from getting married, I mean it's everywhere.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Ringo84]

Franklin Graham has clearly stated how he believes God will use Trump to protect the practice of traditional Christianity, and that is through appointments to the Supreme Court (see post #33). It is sad that Graham's critics so often fault him for what he did not say rather than what he did say.

The fruit of Graham's ministry is that many find saving grace through Jesus Christ, many are delivered from a life of crime and addiction, and many believers are encouraged & strengthened in their Christian walk. It would be prudent for critics to heed Gamaliel's wise words in Acts 5v38-39. (Therefore, in the present case I advise you: Leave these men alone! Let them go! For if their purpose or activity is of human origin, it will fail.But if it is from God, you will not be able to stop these men; you will only find yourselves fighting against God.)

https://media0.giphy.com/media/f7MoTodygKd56/giphy.gif

If Graham doesn't want to be called on the mat for his hypocrisy and moral blindness, then....he shouldn't be a hypocrite and morally blind.
Ringo

 

[SolomonVII]

Lol.
A country that allows its young girls to be raped and prostituted for years -repeatedly- and does nothing to stop it for years (lest the greater victim be diversity) is beyond any hope that a Christian evengalical can offer it.

Trump and Graham are anathema to a country that puts the feelings of Muslim thugs and rapists over and above the integrity of their own little girls. This is a country that jails people for naming the names of the alleged rapists, all in the name of political correctness.

Abandon all hope, all ye who enter Britain. Sometimes I wonder if Jesus actually freed any lost souls from Hades when he did his descent into hell. Even then, Graham may well have better luck evengelizing in hell than he will in politically correct Britain.

Britain reminds me of the rich man who ignored the dying cries of Lazarus and found himself thristing in Hades. He was told that if his kind would not need the prophets, there is no warning that is any longer possible.
Since Britain cannot even be bothered to listened to the pleas of their own children as they are being raped, for sure they will not listen to an American Evangelist.

 

[revanneosl]

Graham and his ilk are willing to forgive and/or forget any moral depravity in a male head of State, as long as that male head of State joins them in advocating public policy that punishes women for enjoying sex.

 

[Shiloh Raven]

That must be why people hold rallies, make signs, and try to push to make adultery illegal. I mean, all those "God hates adulterers" signs, I mean, they're all over the place. And all that effort to try and keep adulterers from getting married, I mean it's everywhere.

-CryptoLutheran

Homosexuality seems to be the pet sin among many right wing Christians. I think that's because it's the one sexual sin they won't commit themselves so they're more judgmental of homosexuals.

 

[Yonny Costopoulis]

Lol.
A country that allows its young girls to be raped and prostituted for years -repeatedly- and does nothing to stop it for years (lest the greater victim be diversity) is beyond any hope that a Christian evengalical can offer it.

This is the interesting topic you bring up.

Peeping Don: Trump spied on teens, beauty queens say
Trump bragged that he walked in on naked beauty pageant contestants
On an appearance on The Howard Stern Show in 2005, published on Sunday by CNN, Trump described going backstage at the beauty pageants while the contestants were undressed. “Before a show, I’ll go backstage and everyone’s getting dressed, and everything else, and you know, no men are anywhere, and I’m allowed to go in because I’m the owner of the pageant and therefore I’m inspecting it,” he said. “You know, I’m inspecting because I want to make sure that everything is good.”


“You know, they’re standing there with no clothes. ‘Is everybody okay?’” he continued. “And you see these incredible looking women, and so, I sort of get away with things like that.”

Donald Trump boasted about meeting semi-naked teenagers in beauty pageants
“Our first introduction to him was when we were at the dress rehearsal and half naked changing into our bikinis,” Ms Dixon told CBS.

“He just came strolling right in. There was no second to put a robe on or any sort of clothing or anything. Some girls were topless. Other girls were naked.”

Former teen beauty queens: Trump barged in on us changing

Christians elected this man president. Christians defend this man constantly on these very forum. Why do you think so many Christian defend him for this and similar behavior?

Based on above information alone I strongly disagree with Franklin Graham. Christians should not "lay off Trump".

 

[Yonny Costopoulis]

Homosexuality seems to be the pet sin among many right wing Christians. I think that's because it's the one sexual sin they won't commit themselves so they're more judgmental of homosexuals.

For others Christians they are gay and attack out of hatred for those feelings inside of their own bodies.

Ted Haggard and His Wife Talk About the Gay Sex Scandal

I am betting this is not so rare among Christians. Maybe even Franklin. The odds are not to unreasonable.
In U.S., Estimate of LGBT Population Rises to 4.5% - Gallup

Such a large group would follow rest of country in statistics. Nearly 250 million Christians in USA so it in reasonable to say over 10 million Christians are gay. Unfortunately from reading I have done many must attack themselves constantly and I am feeling confident that for many that includes attacking other members of LGBT community.

 

[Shiloh Raven]

For others Christians they are gay and attack out of hatred for those feelings inside of their own bodies.

Ted Haggard and His Wife Talk About the Gay Sex Scandal

I am betting this is not so rare among Christians. Maybe even Franklin. The odds are not to unreasonable.
In U.S., Estimate of LGBT Population Rises to 4.5% - Gallup

Such a large group would follow rest of country in statistics. Nearly 250 million Christians in USA so it in reasonable to say over 10 million Christians are gay. Unfortunately from reading I have done many must attack themselves constantly and I am feeling confident that for many that includes attacking other members of LGBT community.

I once knew an evangelical Christian man a few years ago who was very vocal and hostile against homosexuals and homosexuality, but as it turns out he finally admitted that he was gay himself. He finally admitted the truth about himself after he attended professional counseling due to a family tragedy he was going through. He admitted that he lashed out at homosexuals and was so vocal against homosexuality because of the self hate and self guilt he felt in his heart. He said he knew his family and his church would forsake him if they knew he was gay. Sadly, he was right because his family and his church did forsake him and shun him. But I'm proud to say that his non-Christian friends stepped up and were there for him when his family and church turned their back on him. It was because of their encouragement and suppport that he decided to continue seeing his counselor. He was able to get the help he needed to heal and recover from all the hateful and cruel treatment he sadly endured until he finally decided to cut his family and church completely out of his life. I haven't seen him in awhile but the last time I saw him, he was very happy and in a loving relationship.

 

[Yonny Costopoulis]

Sadly, he was right because his family and his church did forsake him and shun him.

I have heard of this.

But I'm proud to say that his non-Christian friends stepped up and were there for him when his family and church turned their back on him.
It was because of their encouragement and suppport that he decided to continue seeing his counselor. He was able to get the help he needed to heal and recover from all the hateful and cruel treatment he sadly endured until he finally decided to cut his family and church completely out of his life. I haven't seen him in awhile but the last time I saw him, he was very happy and in a loving relationship.

I love the happy endings.