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Forum Replacement and Closure of GA

Discussion in 'Announcements' started by arborvita, Oct 24, 2008.

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  1. Angel4Truth

    Angel4Truth Legend

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    I wish that you all would reconsider closing GA - I wish you would consider actually enforcing the sites guidelines and lock it down and clean it up instead. Apoloegtics also serves the believers because it prepares them for real world issues as well as digs deeper into biblical studies - many people learn and grow often times from the very productive threads there.

    Why not try overseeing it by strong mature christians who will see that the sites guidelines are enforced to weed out the legit topics and discussions from the unfruitful ones? Then see if its still productive or not?

    Then close it if it isnt. Remove the fellowship aspects of it to make it clear it isnt a safe house but a serious place to deal with real issues and give defense of the faith.
    Clean up the mocking and remove any non believers from overseeing that forum and actually maintain it with moderators who actually moderate it according to the sites visions.
     
  2. Criada

    Criada Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Good ideas.. but, this was tried a little while ago.. the forum specific guidelines were tightened up, and enforced.. but it didn't work. Our staff are dedicated and do a wonderful job, but, this isn't a full time job.. people have lives outside of CF, and just can't provide the constant supervision which appears to be necessary to keep things civilised.
     
  3. Angel4Truth

    Angel4Truth Legend

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    They werent enforced under the new guidelines . Many mods still did nothing with posts of friends of theirs that were as outside the guidelines as one could get. Or mods would rule no violation to things that were CLEAR violations.

    Reports would sit till they expired and or they would be closed without action because of the sheer number of problem posts in a thread and there was conflict of interest when you non believers overseeing apologetics for the purpose of outreach. You had mods believing errantly that GA was a safehaven for atheists.

    Ive been here 5 years and always read apologetics threads and for the first couple years on this forum I posted mainly in that forum and others in the debate area of the board. I also served for almost a year on debate team as a supervisor and the forum used to be under much better control than recently but then when i was there - it was before the disaster of the 777 reforms.

    They didnt work - we all know it like it or not and now we should be fixing things instead of throwing them all out.
     
  4. KCDAD

    KCDAD Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the context, LLOG.

    So you want to take the words of The Gospel according to John, written some 60 years after Jesus was executed, instead of the words of the other Gospels including Thomas and others that quotes Jesus' teachings. The parable fo the sheep and goats for example... The good Samaritan for another... no points for what you believe or what group you claim to belong to... all that matters is what you do!!!!

    Belief... ha! Even the demons believe...
     
  5. Angel4Truth

    Angel4Truth Legend

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    Oh while that forum was supposedly strictly enforced for example - reported a thgread entitled basically (paraphrase) " God is a liar and a cheat/or really doesnt exist" the entire op was a rail against believers and the charcater of God and explained why the person was an atheist and why we should all be including links to atheist sites.

    Clearly a violation - CLEAR. I reported it 3 times over the space of 3 weeks to ensure the mods were seeing it - post stood and after another month the thread was closed because of posts at the back end. The entire thread should have been removed.

    If thats locking it down then i can understand that the real issue is that no one cares to enforce the rules there and why its easier just to close it up.
     
  6. Radagast

    Radagast has left CF Supporter

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    I'm sorry to hear that. But that sort of thing is the result of all the staff being 110% busy dealing with bad behaviour.
     
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2008
  7. Radagast

    Radagast has left CF Supporter

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    ...
     
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2008
  8. suzybeezy

    suzybeezy Reports Manager

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    <Staff edit>

    And you also remember the exhaustive pace that had to be maintained just to keep up - we had very active mods, giving triple/quadruple the time required, just to keep our heads above the water and still it was a loosing battle. And debate ended up with alot of mods burning out from exhaustion. GA has always been one of the highest report yielding areas, and numerous efforts to salvage it have occured. And if you recall, when efforts were made to consistently apply the rules, always striving to be as unbiased as possible and take a proactive approach of being in the threads, posting, and trying to keep things civil, there were those who were mad with that - I believe it was called "over-moderating". I've personally witnessed alot of the attempts to fix GA and really have to commend TPTB for all the energy and effort they have put into trying to salvage this forum. I can understand where some feel frustrated about this decision, but they should be aware this decision only came after all other efforts failed.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 27, 2008
  9. Hentenza

    Hentenza I will fear no evil for You are with me Supporter

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    I am in full agreement. Everything was done to keep this forum afloat but it was for not. The vitrol and flaming continued.
     
  10. GreenMunchkin

    GreenMunchkin Likes things. And stuff. But mostly things. Supporter

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    It may be annoying but, when we get down to it, it is what it is. We can't change people's behaviour, we can only change our reaction to it. If you're really being incessantly accosted by people who go on and on about it (seriously? Am not doubting you, only have never heard of such a thing) maybe it's time to change how you react to it. Not for their benefit, but for your own.
    Hmm. By the same token, is your saying "maybe the lord has a problem. Like not existing..." (I don't have the quote to hand, so have recited it from memory - please forgive me if I paraphrased :hug:) beneficial to debate? I don't see how one is any more valid than the other in terms of theological debate.
    Am honestly so sorry it damaged you in that way :( Am really, really sorry. There's just nothing any of us can say to justify or counter damage done in the name of Christ. Am really sorry :hug:

    Can I ask you something? And I ask because you're a member: are you interested?
    S'funny, I believe the inverse to be true. I think the person is better of once they turn to Christ. I wonder if either of us is more right than the other...

    I have another question, though: given how acrimonious it is in GA, how didactic and polemical and *angry*, do you think it's actually causing people to reconsider their behaviour, or do you think it's making people defensive and entrenching them in their position?
    Have heard this before and, actually, I understand. But, if I may explain something from the Christian perspective? Many of us aren't politically active - in fact, many of us believe politics and faith to be somewhat mutually exclusive; nor would we be mean, or harass, or insult. Those of us who feel that way very much see the *atheist* contingent as the aggressors, as we've personally done nothing to warrant the anger.

    Can you see that, at all? So when we wander into GA and see what *looks* like abject hatred - even if it's reactionary - it stifles debate within seconds, and only adds to the fisticuffy paradigm. That's what GA had become. No-one seemed to be learning, or reaching out or trying to understand people. There were of course people on both sides who were trying, but the quiet, gentle people are much easier to ignore. So GA, ostensibly, seemed like a den of fury and fighting. Realistically, does that benefit anyone?
    GA doesn't work towards that end, though. It just creates bad feeling. It just makes Christians feel like atheists are angry and cruel, and it makes atheists feel like Christians are angry and cruel. Criada said something very wise a couple of days ago. She said we can't legislate people into the Kingdom of God. Tis absolutely true, and we have no right to enforce our own morality and beliefs on those who don't follow the faith. But all of us being cruel to one another in GA is a separate animal - entirely unrelated.

    Respectful debate can make people re-think their views and methods. What GA turned into fostered anything but respectful debate, didn't it?

    Quite true. But it honestly comes down, once again, to the fact that CF isn't obliged to provide a space for people attempt to deconvert people. I truly don't believe someone can lose their faith by someone sharing their views. But I absolutely believe that people who are already struggling can lose their faith upon being on the receiving end of an onslaught of anti-Christianity.

    As Christians, we need to be fed daily. We need to read the Bible, and pray and spend time with fellow Christians. We need that like we need food, so if people are eschewing that spiritual sustenance and being exposed to the culture of GA instead, it's easy to stumble. CF is honestly remiss if it allows that within its walls.
    GA as it was won't achieve that. Am sorry, but it just won't. It wasn't.
    That's not strictly true... as the world changes, so must our approach. Christians are often accused of stupidity, gullibility - any number of pejoratives; non-Christians often feel Christianity isn't a viable faith because they aren't aware of its historical integrity - so apologetics is a valid ministry for many. I still maintain that, ultimately, abiding in Christ isn't something that can be intellectualized, but as attacks on Christianity become more pervasive, so must defending the faith.
    It is. And I guess, rightly or wrongly, the decision is made. My concern, though, is that you - you personally - not feel hurt by it, and understand a little why the decision was made :hug:
     
  11. Minty

    Minty S.O.P.H.I.E

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    Agreed...somtimes the people that desperately need the help are the ones that fall through the cracks when Staff are kept busy enforcing rules against people that really should know better...people that agreed to abide by the rules when they signed up :(
     
  12. TheBear

    TheBear Free Agent

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    ...........
     
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2008
  13. Angel4Truth

    Angel4Truth Legend

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    Yes we had 4 out of 8 or 9 very active mods on our team - 4 who actually did what a mod was suppose to do and 4 or 5 who barely did anything at all except make one comment a week if that sometimes.
    When you have more mods doing nothing compared with less that number working their hearts out for this place - thats already a problem- then you have some mods who are only there to push an agenda - who instead of working report 1 - they spend all their time pushing new ideals to other staff. So the 4 working on each short handed team have to take up the slack for everyone else and thats why they get burned out.

    Hint: If they cant do what they signed up for - they dont need to be there.

    Adressed above - too many mods are just there for the title and position.

    mad yes because they had to follow the sites guidelines while mods in other areas that were more "relaxed" didnt apply the same standards. So the real issues was inconsistancy and not enough mods who actually did what they were suppose to do in their positions.

    GA used to be a good place for discussion. Again Ive been here long enough to know.

    I know what I saw when I was there - I saw real effort being undermined by alternate agenda from other staff outside of that area. Real effort wont
    ever work if everyone isnt in agreement and working together for a common goal.
     
  14. TheBear

    TheBear Free Agent

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    While you're at it, enable the "Who's Online" function again. Turn it back on so people can watch the number of online visitors drop to a mere handful of like-minded members.

    Then again, that might not be good for potential site investors to see. So, better keep that function disabled. That way, you all can operate in deception and secrecy.
     
  15. arborvita

    arborvita Retired. Supporter

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    Okay I think we are done with this.
     
  16. D'Ann

    D'Ann Catholic... Faith, Hope and the greatest is LOVE Supporter

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    Yes, very true. What some may not realize here is there are some members who post on another athiest site which have an agenda to deconvert Christians. They visit many different Christian websites and their main goal is to deconvert Christians. On that site in which they originated from, they have a list that has many of the deconverted Christian names (from CF, along with other Christian sites) that were deconverted on their list. In fact, the posters are boasting and bragging about how they deconverted this Christian or that Christian. It's heart breaking.

    I have no problem with non-Christians sharing and fellowshipping and discussing Christianity, but I do have a problem with members who have an agenda to deconvert Christians and use the GA forum as their platform.

    I realize that most members are not apart of this one group of atheists, but unfortunately, I believe this change needed to happen to protect the lambs who are vulnerable aka the babes in Christ who are still learning and have yet to form a strong foundation in Christ.

    I realize that many here in this thread may not agree or understand, but I have that list and it breaks my heart to read it. I pray for those people who names are on this list. These people were once strong Christians, but are no longer Christians. It's heart breaking and that is why I support this new change.

    This new change is not to exclude non-Christians, but to help those who are sincerely seeking Christ to have a chance to learn about Christ by fellow Christians.

    There are many other forums here where non-Christians are very much welcomed to fellowship and have fun and discuss some things, but no more will young Christians who are vulnerable be subjected to a non-Christian's agenda of deconverting them. I'm not saying that is the goal or agenda of "ALL" non-Christians, because I know that it is not. Unfortunately though, we do have some non-Christians who do have this agenda and in order to protect the lambs as Christ has called us to do, I support this new change.

    Me too. Amen

    Exactly.
     
  17. arborvita

    arborvita Retired. Supporter

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    Closing thread.
     
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