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Foru.ms - a new beginning and a fresh start (2)

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JoshuaM

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in my opinion Erwin cannot be trusted and this is why:

There is only one truth. it is in Jesus who is the Word and who by Him the New Covenant was made, and that and following the Bible's teachings are what Christianity is about.

this is what is happening in my opinion

and how come we have to pay erwin to start a poll?
 
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*Starlight*

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3) reinstitute the Nicene Creed/ with the addition of agreement that the Bible is God's inspired word
These are not Fundamentalist Forums. :p
 
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ravendta

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I think you misunderstand. The poll Erwin is referring to was taken in the Conservative Christians Congregational Forum. It was developed by a Christian and voted on by Christians who had identified themselves as conservative. Erwin eventually moved it into the Announcements Forum at which point it was replaced by a reworded poll and locked.

If that is so, it still is irrelevant. The fact that he changed the name at all is a smack in God's face. Regardless of who told him to do it, whether it be non-believers or people who call themselves Christians, it still ends up the same way - taking the focus off of God and away from everything that formed this board in the first place.
 
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stumpjumper

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The self-righteous mindset was directly related to their beliefs, unless of course interpreting the Law of Moses wrong is an action and not a belief. [/sarcasm]

How, exactly, is it possible for you to conflate "interpreting the law of Moses wrong" and "accepting certain dogmatic statements about Jesus"?

Interpreting the law of Moses is demonstrated by actions.

Jesus' teachings and exhortations were in line with Isaiah's take on what needs to be done from a Prophetical perspective in regards to the actions of Israel. Isaiah, as well as Jeremiah, was pretty inclusive.

The Pharisees and other Prophets were extremely exclusive to the point of removing lepers, eunuchs, and other undesirables from society.

Whose interpretation of the law of Moses do you follow?

Do you believe in an exclusionary or inclusionary Christianity?

We see Jesus not only setting their actions right, but their beliefs as well (for instance when he said that what goes into a man does not make him unclean, an idea repeated in Paul). There is not so large a dichotomy between actions and beliefs.
Whoah.

Another interesting spin but the whole "what goes out of a man's mouth makes him unclean is about actions.

Passage:

[bible]Matthew 15:11[/bible]

Our words and actions can hurt. When we consider others worthless and unworthy of God's love, we are capable of doing anything to them.

In the Sermon on The Mount, what was the only action that Jesus stated would send one to Gehanna?

Was it not calling another a fool? Why is that?

Where else do we find references to fools in the Bible?

What can you do to someone whom you believe is unworthy of God's, and hence your, love?

The neighbor is the man who does the right thing, not the man who believes the right thing and yet does the wrong thing. So?
The neighbor is the one whom you either meet on the street or helps you when you're in a ditch. Anyone, and everyone, is our neighbor.

Is that an inclusive or exclusive statement^

Your neighbor is those that you meet in your daily life. If you exclude others from fellowship, how can they be your neighbor?

It doesn't matter. Even if we don't find Jesus laying out systematically what Christians have to believe, he didn't say many other things that were relevant and that the early Christians would have to work out for themselves. The best argument you have here is an argument from silence.
It does matter if Jesus focused his teachings upon actions and Christians focus their teachings upon theological statements.

Instead of saying a real Christian is someone who believes certain things why don't we accept that a Christian is someone who acts out of love or at least attempts to do so?

It makes it harder to exclude others that way based upon a formula, ie a creed, but, hey, who said life was easy?


Still, I'm afraid you're thinking in black and white (which is ironic since conservatives are often accused of doing that). It's possible for a non-Christian to be more righteous than a Christian without the conclusion being "it doesn't matter what you believe." The conclusion would be "the non-Christian is actually acting more like a Christian than the Christian is!"
Sure.

But you are still defining Christian in terms of theology.

It has not worked here and never will...
 
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Brennin

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Ha!

Put the cans on CF and get rid of those body thetans.
I suspect Erwin was kidnapped by a Scientologist cell and either forced to watch Battlefield Earth until his mind was completely numbed or he had his mind implanted with a Ceti Eel (same difference).
 
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ravendta

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I don't know why everyone is so caught up in theology here, and that includes whatever changes and discussion went on amongst the "higher ups" of the board. This place was always a place for Christians of WHATEVER denomination to gather and share/discuss their ideals, and the discussion of theology means little when Christ has been erased from the basis of the board anyway.

Admittedly, there apparently were a lot of things that went on over the past couple months that I am unaware of, but Christ is Christ, and regardless of who believes what, this was once a place where His children could gather and share the word of God with others, and with the new name, its as though we're abandoning that concept and going with the myspace mentality.

That's really the bottom line I see here, and it has little to do with theology.
 
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stumpjumper

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Scholar said:
Gee, the deity and resurrection of Christ is central for Protestants, Catholics, and Orthodox (or at least among the non-liberals therein) and of course for the Bible and the early Church.
Which is the lowest common denominator that includes most mainstream Christians while excluding Mormons and those well dressed people who knock on your door.

I could just as easily say the Apostles Creed is the lowest common denominator and all of the groups you mentioned would probably agree until the nasty Mormons and Jehova's Witnesses showed up and joined the club.

Interpretation:

No Blacks.

No Jews.

No Irish.

No Jehova's Witnesses.

Big Love is out.
 
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Nadiine

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The self-righteous mindset and exclusionary actions of the Pharisees was what Jesus critiqued not their beliefs.

Sure, they didn't believe him but that was because it was against their self-interest to do so.

Who was excluded from Jesus' table?

Who did Jesus say our neighbors happen to be?
And here's a very common error that so many people miss when they claim "Jesus sat with sinners".

IT SAYS HE SAT WITH SINNERS, NOT WOLVES AND NOT FALSE TEACHERS who work against Him to subjugate the truth, or who were HOSTILE towards Him.

Reread the NT, and notice that anytime the people turned against Christ OR the disciples, they left. They were to shake the dust when rejected and leave them - not continue sitting there to get harrassed and challenged. (as these forums promote when we keep defending the faith to the same people who attack it).

Before you use scripture, make sure it's used properly. Jesus worked with and "sat" with people that were neutral and listened to Him, not openly opposing Him in anger.
He left the crowds that turned against Him & refused His teachings once given and He rebuked pharisees & scribes who tried to trap Him in verbal debates (hostile towards Him & His message)....

SINNERS AND WOLVES/FALSE TEACHERS ARE NOT THE SAME THING as per New Testament teachings, and each example of when the people turned against the Mesage they brought, THEY LEFT. NOT SAT WITH THEM TO CONTINUALLY BE ATTACKED.

Mat 7:6Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.

Mar 6:11 "Any place that does not receive you or listen to you, as you go out from there, shake the dust off the soles of your feet for a testimony against them."

Lots more verses tell us who to avoid as well, not continue with so we get berated and show "LOVE" by getting ganged up on in debate.
 
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CaDan

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And here's a very common error that so many people miss when they claim "Jesus sat with sinners".

IT SAYS HE SAT WITH SINNERS, NOT WOLVES AND NOT FALSE TEACHERS who work against Him to subjugate the truth, or who were HOSTILE towards Him.

Reread the NT, and notice that anytime the people turned against Christ OR the disciples, they left. They were to shake the dust when rejected and leave them - not continue sitting there to get harrassed and challenged. (as these forums promote when we keep defending the faith to the same people who attack it).

Before you use scripture, make sure it's used properly. Jesus worked with and "sat" with people that were neutral and listened to Him, not openly opposing Him in anger.
He left the crowds that turned against Him & refused His teachings once given and He rebuked pharisees & scribes who tried to trap Him in verbal debates (hostile towards Him & His message)....

SINNERS AND WOLVES/FALSE TEACHERS ARE NOT THE SAME THING as per New Testament teachings, and each example of when the people turned against the Mesage they brought, THEY LEFT. NOT SAT WITH THEM TO CONTINUALLY BE ATTACKED.

Mat 7:6Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.

Mar 6:11 "Any place that does not receive you or listen to you, as you go out from there, shake the dust off the soles of your feet for a testimony against them."

Lots more verses tell us who to avoid as well, not continue with so we get berated and show "LOVE" by getting ganged up on in debate.

If that is your interpretation, then what are you doing here? You are acting, to use the word some like so much, unBiblically.

I see a lot of "blah, blah, blah. Obey me or go to Hell." I don't see much actual follow-through.
 
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Brimshack

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It is discssed because it played a role in thchanges leading up to this.

Some Christians weren't Christian enough under the old rules, and there were constant battles over who could and who could not come into this or that playhouse (i.e. post in various Christians-only sections of teh fofoum).

One of the elements of Erwin's last reforms was the removal of any question about who is and who is not aChristian for purposes of the site as a whole. As a consequence of that, non-Christians could theoretically post anywhere and could even theoretically become moderators on the site. How extensive that would ever have been under the reforms, we will never know, because for most it just wasn't a Christian forum if that was theoretically possible.

Without the ability to tell some people they aren't really Christian after all, a significant number of Christians here don't seem to think the site deserves to keep the title. Doctrine is the primary weapon for such folk, and that is precisely why doctrine is central to the current bruhaha. It's essential to the ability to hurt people in Jesus' name. If the website won't give them that weapon within its own purview, then they will use it against the site itself.
 
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Nadiine

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Disagreement with conservative christianity does not make someone a wolf or a false teacher.

I don't know how people come up with this sort of thing, other than believing they're on the same level as God.
I didn't say "conservative Christianity" tho, did I? you did.

Also, I don't see this thread as a place to start a debate about liberal vs. conservatives.
So I'm not going to continue that here.

I made a clarification to a statement someone used as if Jesus sat with sinners, as if therefore automatically, Christians are forced to sit with skeptics endleslessly to have their faith & worldviews challenged & attacked around the clock.
It's not biblical.
 
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Brimshack

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And here's a very common error that so many people miss when they claim "Jesus sat with sinners".

IT SAYS HE SAT WITH SINNERS, NOT WOLVES AND NOT FALSE TEACHERS who work against Him to subjugate the truth, or who were HOSTILE towards Him.

Reread the NT, and notice that anytime the people turned against Christ OR the disciples, they left. They were to shake the dust when rejected and leave them - not continue sitting there to get harrassed and challenged. (as these forums promote when we keep defending the faith to the same people who attack it).

Before you use scripture, make sure it's used properly. Jesus worked with and "sat" with people that were neutral and listened to Him, not openly opposing Him in anger.
He left the crowds that turned against Him & refused His teachings once given and He rebuked pharisees & scribes who tried to trap Him in verbal debates (hostile towards Him & His message)....

SINNERS AND WOLVES/FALSE TEACHERS ARE NOT THE SAME THING as per New Testament teachings, and each example of when the people turned against the Mesage they brought, THEY LEFT. NOT SAT WITH THEM TO CONTINUALLY BE ATTACKED.

Mat 7:6Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.

Mar 6:11 "Any place that does not receive you or listen to you, as you go out from there, shake the dust off the soles of your feet for a testimony against them."

Lots more verses tell us who to avoid as well, not continue with so we get berated and show "LOVE" by getting ganged up on in debate.

You are equivocating. the Bible does not say that Jesus sat only with those who believed in him or his teachings. But you clearly equate the rest of us who do not accept his divinity with anyone who opposes him, hates him, teaches falsely, etc. Jesus may have left when people turned against him, but that certainly wasn't a matter of mear disagreement.

When you describe the unbelievers present on this site as wolves and false teachers, you take a step well beyond anything in the Bible.

...which serves to show once again, that even if Jesis is Lord, a lot of false teaching is still done in His name.

We are not "Wolves" Nadiin. If you find it necessary to call us such, do not pretend for one moment that your expression of malice has anythign to do with Jesus.
 
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Athene

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A message from Seebs:

[bible]Romans 8:38-39[/bible]

Friends, siblings, neighbors, fellow creatures:

Perfect love casts out fear.

Have a little faith.

I think his post in it's entirety deserves to be posted. :p

If even one soul is lost and we didnt stand, as God told Ezekiel, as watchmen we will have their blood on our hands.
For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

It is no secret that much of the world hates Christians (or and God-based belief in general) but there is no need to give them victory by allowing them the power to force us practically into hiding.

For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

You push God out of your life, and he will not force his way back in.
For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

To give our future over to the hands of a vote conducted by those who would happily bring us down is as though Erwin smacked Jesus across the face himself.
For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
How can you be a follower of Jesus Christ if you don't know who he is or what he did?
For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Of course you are, youre an atheist and standing for the downfall of a CHRISTIAN board :wink:
For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

You are removing the CHRISTIAN influance here and getting your fill of atheistic subscribers... GREAT new vision from Satan's point of view
For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Friends, siblings, neighbors, fellow creatures:

Perfect love casts out fear.

Have a little faith

Athene said:
And the people of the Lord say ''Amen!'
 
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Nadiine

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If that is your interpretation, then what are you doing here? You are acting, to use the word some like so much, unBiblically.

I see a lot of "blah, blah, blah. Obey me or go to Hell." I don't see much actual follow-through.
SOMEONE USED A VERSE TO SUPPORT JUST THAT in its context - I replied with a correction and distinction between regular sinners who weren't attacking Jesus, and the false teachers & wolves (and anyone else) who were directly rejecting the message they were given and turned to attack.

Read it for yourself during Jesus' ministry - not to mention the apostles who wrote specifically not to continue with those who do that.

Aside from that, this thread isn't for religious debate, it's an announcement area, so I'm not continuing a debate any further.
I simply made a clarification of a point that was made.
 
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