Foru.ms - a new beginning and a fresh start (2)

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rushingwind62

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it soon enough will be removed from search engines, and it will be a closed self containing site, no way this is christian. this is sekt
I think Erwin has been clear as to why he has changed this site. In his mind he thinks it will become more of an outreach. I think his intenetions are good but misguided. To say it or Erwin is unchristian is nothing but pure judgementalism.
 
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Asinner

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Can we judge that it is wrong to say youll do one thing and do another on a continual basis?

Can we judge that an untruth = a lie or is simple truth and the word banned form here now too

Actually, no.

If you are without sin, then you may judge. Also, if you judge, please remove the log from your eye first.

Calling someone a liar is simply not nice, whether you are a Christian or not. Forget the judging aspect.

Love,
Christina
 
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Nadiine

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For someone who claims to know the scriptures you are sure being a judgmental person. My goodness Erwin doesn't deserve to be judged this way. I dare say no one does.
That's not even true.
Jesus said "You shall KNOW THEM by their fruit". We're to inspect people's FRUIT (actions/words) to see if it aligns with what God teaches us.
Otherwise, how do you expect to spot a false teacher??

Clearly, ERWIN'S REMOVED SOME KEY ELEMENTS TO CF that make it CHRISTIAN by definition.
I'd say that's a fruit issue! We ARE to judge people's actions & words for what they are and relay, NOT PEOPLE AS TO CONDEMN THEM.

Also 1 Cor 1:5 Paul taught that we are to judge those INSIDE the church, not those outside.
I do grow weary of people not using the judging scriptures correctly - if we cant' judge, THEN WE ALSO CAN'T KNOW SOMEONE NEEDS WITNESSING TO BE SAVED either; that would make us have to "judge" they're lost first).:eek:

Jhn 7:24 "Do not judge according to appearance, but judge with righteous judgment."
 
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joebudda

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i am not a prophet, i have read the statement of Erwins.

thanks for happy thaughts, but i shall descide myself what to think

Not a command. Just a wish or desire from me to you.

If we focus on the negative the world tends to seem negative. If we focus on what makes us happy then the world tends to be a happy place.
 
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AG

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It's not removed permanently, changing a name and address is for search engines like starting a new website... it simply needs some time to appear in search results again.
i have read what Erwin has said, at the moment it is in search engines, but he wants to remove it (the name FORU.MS) is this what you call outreach?

goodnes me...why i am even talking bout this, and in no way i am being judgmental, i dont judge him, ihe can do whatever. i am just stating the reason why i am leaving, and debating, just cause i might have been wrong and can stay.

calling a person a liar is not namecalling. its stating a fact. calling a person a pig is name calling.
calling a person a liar is not being judgemental, its telling the truth what you know. if i would not know anything bout Erwins "vision" i wouldnt dare to call him a liar
 
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ravendta

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I agree reading doesn't make one smarter, but books do contain knowledge that can be learned if read. I truly am a truthseaker. If I am to know the truth it will not be by trusting anyone with a claim.

I'm not exactly sure I understand what you're saying here. Do you mean that you believe that reading books will lead you to the truth? Or are you saying that if you are to know truth it will be through personal conviction?
 
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AG

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bye all, im gone now.

i have just proved that i was not wrong, and i need to leave.

as to others, its down to them, in my oppinion the change is a mistake, but who cares bout my opinnion.

when i have logged on and saw the name and the slogan changed i was hurt and digussed, and that was not just because of the name. so i will leave and keep myself away from coming here and seeing this chaos again.

i will miss the former CF, but i'll get over it.
 
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ravendta

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For someone who claims to know the scriptures you are sure being a judgmental person. My goodness Erwin doesn't deserve to be judged this way. I dare say no one does.

There's a difference between being judgmental and speaking observations. To hide the name of Christ with the purpose of drawing more people - in essence, saying that the name of Christ is a negative thing - is an outright slap in the face of Jesus and everything this site was built on in the first place. That's not a judgement, it's a fact. He claims to be hiding Christ's name because he doesn't want to scare people off - but as I said in an earlier post, Jesus didn't make his teachings more "people friendly" in order to attract listeners, and neither should this site try to be more "people friendly" to attract more users.
 
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No Swansong

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:doh:

The rules here are based on Christian principles, and Christianity is protected by them.

Which specific principles are Christian that the site is built upon? I strongly disagree that Christianity is now protected.

There's a pastoral staff team.
For now.


The webmaster and most of the members are Christian.
Most of the people at my job claim to be Christian. That doesn't make it a "Christian" establishment.


A lot of the forums are specifically for discussing Christian things.
There are also forums for Muslims etc. Is it now a Muslim site?

There are congregation forums for the members of the most popular Christian denominations.
Again for now.

Christianity and Jesus Christ are referred to on the site's title, and also in keywords and description for search engines.
I know Atheist sites that refer to Christianity in their title and kewords and descriptions for search engines.

I can't imagine how anyone could see Foru.ms as non-Christian....
It's easy to see.
 
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ravendta

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bye all, im gone now.

i have just proved that i was not wrong, and i need to leave.

as to others, its down to them, in my oppinion the change is a mistake, but who cares bout my opinnion.

when i have logged on and saw the name and the slogan changed i was hurt and digussed, and that was not just because of the name. so i will leave and keep myself away from coming here and seeing this chaos again.

i will miss the former CF, but i'll get over it.

See you over at CCF - I've already joined and will be there more regularly soon.
 
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joebudda

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I'm not exactly sure I understand what you're saying here. Do you mean that you believe that reading books will lead you to the truth? Or are you saying that if you are to know truth it will be through personal conviction?

It depends on the books.

The thing about having an open minds is I am open to information. The more information I have the closer I believe I come to truth regarding the information I have contended with.

Being human is a funny thing. As you believe you know the “truth”, so do I. Just as you believe I am mislead regarding truth, I think the same way regarding what you believe.

How are we supposed to rationalize this? How can we know if what we know to be true is really true when everyone believes what they believe is true?

The only way I know is to learn everything I can about what ever it is and what ever persuades me is what I believe to be truth. The more information I know the less likely I am to be mislead, this is what I believe and why I support learning and then questioning what has been learned.
 
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*Starlight*

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Which specific principles are Christian that the site is built upon? I strongly disagree that Christianity is now protected.
According to the forum rules, the goal is to keep Christians united. And bashing God and Christianity in any way is against the rules.
Is that supposed to be a rational argument?
There are also forums for Muslims etc. Is it now a Muslim site?
Is there a specific Musilm safe place forum here? Can you give me a link?
Again for now.
Can you see the future?
 
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ravendta

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It depends on the books.

The thing about having an open minds is I am open to information. The more information I have the closer I believe I come to truth regarding the information I have contended with.

Being human is a funny thing. As you believe you know the “truth”, so do I. Just as you believe I am mislead regarding truth, I think the same way regarding what you believe.

How are we supposed to rationalize this? How can we know if what we know to be true is really true when everyone believes what they believe is true?

The only way I know is to learn everything I can about what ever it is and what ever persuades me is what I believe to be truth. The more information I know the less likely I am to be mislead, this is what I believe and why I support learning and then questioning what has been learned.

The problem I have with that is that books are written by man. They are theories, beliefs, concepts, and conclusions that MEN have come to, and thus, can only reach the barrier of human intelligence. I don't believe that humans are the most intelligent beings to ever exist, and thus, any "facts" presented by man are irrelevant to me.

Yes, I know, the Bible was written by man. Here's how I look at that.

First off, when reading the Bible I keep in mind that many things were written regarding SPECIFIC cultures of the times. The Bible states how we should treat slaves, making some unrational people jump to the conclusion that slavery is OK with Christians. It's not. The writers of the Bible were simply MEN writing of the culture of their times. It would take time to show them the error of this, and eventually, they did. So I don't necessarily take every word of the Bible to apply to me, because I wasn't in those situations that the individual letters were addressed to.

The center of my beliefs, and the core of Christianity, is based on Christ's teachings and his sacrifice. I believe the words of Jesus, because although he was a man, he was more than man. I cannot prove this to you with anything other than the faith in my heart. And that is really what humans in general fail to understand. Everyone wants proof of everything. There's got to be scientific evidence or something visible to prove a belief before they'll adhere to it. Christ doesn't want those kinds of people following Him, because they aren't truly trustworthy people. He wants us to follow Him of our own FAITH, and that faith can not be attained through viewing of evidence.

So, I guess what I'm saying is that no amount of evidence discovered by man is going to convince me that it is real "truth." You say that people alter words and hear only what they want to hear and have biased opinions and etc, and so I ask, who's to say that these scientists, researchers, authors, and whoever else out there who thinks they've disproven the Bible aren't motivated by the same things? Who's to say they aren't seeing what they WANT rather than what is true?

Fact is, if you or anyone else wants Christ's existence, testimony, and legitimacy to be PROVEN to you through man-made means, it's never going to happen. Seeing isn't believing, believing is seeing. I know it's a cliche, but for those of us who have whole-heartedly taken that leap of faith and put our trust in a God we cannot prove exists, we have been filled with what I can only call "the feeling" that tells is it's true. Any other Christian will echo that sentiment. It's a conviction of the heart that gives you peace when you've finally turned your life over to Christ. You know He's there, you know what He's done was in fact real, and you know the Bible to be his message to the world.

You say you are open to all information. Then consider the idea that man is not the most superior being in the universe, and thus, cannot comprehend the real truth any more than a dog can drive a car. Consider that, in light of that, man-made writings and research are limited because they are not conducted and written with the extra knowledge that such a higher understanding would've provided. It sheds new light on the inadequacy of man's "work" to prove themselves. And since we do not have that higher understanding, we must rely on faith.

I don't say any of this to try to convert you, so please don't get that idea. I simply am trying to explain why, to Christians, man-made works of writing, research, or even scientific theories mean nothing. Because they are just that - man-made, and while men are imperfect, God is not.

I hope I haven't been too confusing in my wording of this - I kinda jumped around topics in my head as I was writing. Please PM me if you'd like to continue this discussion.
 
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rushingwind62

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Many of us are upset wth Erwin's decision. We are hurt, angry, and even feel a little betrayed. Does that give us the right to call Erwin a liar? I think not. Does that give us the right to call him and his actions unchristian. I think not. I think his intention was and is good, but I think he will find out this new vision will not work. He is depending on the members to get info out about the site and many of the christian members are or already have left. I think he just got tired of all the bickering on cf and wanted a change. He lost site of his orignal vision to unite all christians and could not see that through Christ we are united. We believe He died for our sins. There is always going to be differences and varying opinions of certain scriptures, because the Word is living and it reveals itself according to where we are at in our walk with God and where we have been placed in the body of Christ. Perfect harmony will not come until the Lord returns. We as christians need to focus on what we agree upon rather than the differences. We as christian need to stop accusing Erwin of being a liar and unchristian, because we are not God!!! We have no right to judge him unless we know Erwin personally and what he was thinking. We do need to stand up and let our displeasure be known as far as what he has done. But all accusing will do is make him mad. I see some very poor fruit being beared here and IT IS NOT BY ERWIN! He has been upfront and honest as to why he changed the site. I am ashamed by some of my brethren and the way they are acting!
 
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PeacaHeaven

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WE don't "convert" anyone. GOD does that. Our MISSION is to preach the gospel.
The issue at hand is, ERWIN IS PROMOTING AND OPENING UP TO MANY GOSPELS OF FALSE TEACHERS who will witness falsity and lead people AWAY from the truth of God.

That's the cruxt of it.

It's who he's allowing to claim they're Christians here - without any rules or preamble/creed of agreement,
a Nontrinitarian is free to preach that Christ is NOT God and God isn't 3 as one.
HOW ARE THE LOST HELPED?

A universalist can claim they're Christian, THEN TELL THE UNSAVED HERE, "YOU'RE ALREADY SAVED! YOU DON'T NEED TO REPENT OR ACCEPT SALVATION - YOU ALREADY HAVE IT".

How are the lost helped???

THEY AREN'T! ERWIN THEN PROMOTES CONFUSION AND HERESY to be witnessed in his "VISION" (which is not vision, it's blindness)!!!!!!!!!!!!!
:thumbsup:
This is the problem as I see it too. I think the name change is small compared to the impact this will have in the future.
 
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PeacaHeaven

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Originally Posted by StarJewel
It's not removed permanently, changing a name and address is for search engines like starting a new website... it simply needs some time to appear in search results again.
I read post links that were posted where Erwin said this forum would be falling off the search engines and won't be showing up on them pretty soon.

So according to Erwin's own posts, you're reason here isn't right.
I think Erwin's post links are found around page 8 right now
here you go http://foru.ms/showpost.php?p=37921366&postcount=132
 
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WalksWithChrist

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A question for all Christians participating in this discussion (no need to post your answer, just consider):

Let's ask ourselves, "Am I behaving in a Christlike manner? Can others discern the character of God through what I post today? In what ways do I reflect the image of my Creator, and in what ways might that image grow more clear?"
Noted and considered!!
:thumbsup:
Thank you for posting that.

I think that's the general concensus. Its his site if he wants to make it a secular site, its his peroggative. But he should have the decency to refund those who were supporting a different more Christian based vision for the site.
An excellent point.
 
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joebudda

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The problem I have with that is that books are written by man. They are theories, beliefs, concepts, and conclusions that MEN have come to, and thus, can only reach the barrier of human intelligence. I don't believe that humans are the most intelligent beings to ever exist, and thus, any "facts" presented by man are irrelevant to me.

Yes, I know, the Bible was written by man. Here's how I look at that.

First off, when reading the Bible I keep in mind that many things were written regarding SPECIFIC cultures of the times. The Bible states how we should treat slaves, making some unrational people jump to the conclusion that slavery is OK with Christians. It's not. The writers of the Bible were simply MEN writing of the culture of their times. It would take time to show them the error of this, and eventually, they did. So I don't necessarily take every word of the Bible to apply to me, because I wasn't in those situations that the individual letters were addressed to.

The center of my beliefs, and the core of Christianity, is based on Christ's teachings and his sacrifice. I believe the words of Jesus, because although he was a man, he was more than man. I cannot prove this to you with anything other than the faith in my heart. And that is really what humans in general fail to understand. Everyone wants proof of everything. There's got to be scientific evidence or something visible to prove a belief before they'll adhere to it. Christ doesn't want those kinds of people following Him, because they aren't truly trustworthy people. He wants us to follow Him of our own FAITH, and that faith can not be attained through viewing of evidence.

So, I guess what I'm saying is that no amount of evidence discovered by man is going to convince me that it is real "truth." You say that people alter words and hear only what they want to hear and have biased opinions and etc, and so I ask, who's to say that these scientists, researchers, authors, and whoever else out there who thinks they've disproven the Bible aren't motivated by the same things? Who's to say they aren't seeing what they WANT rather than what is true?

Fact is, if you or anyone else wants Christ's existence, testimony, and legitimacy to be PROVEN to you through man-made means, it's never going to happen. Seeing isn't believing, believing is seeing. I know it's a cliche, but for those of us who have whole-heartedly taken that leap of faith and put our trust in a God we cannot prove exists, we have been filled with what I can only call "the feeling" that tells is it's true. Any other Christian will echo that sentiment. It's a conviction of the heart that gives you peace when you've finally turned your life over to Christ. You know He's there, you know what He's done was in fact real, and you know the Bible to be his message to the world.

You say you are open to all information. Then consider the idea that man is not the most superior being in the universe, and thus, cannot comprehend the real truth any more than a dog can drive a car. Consider that, in light of that, man-made writings and research are limited because they are not conducted and written with the extra knowledge that such a higher understanding would've provided. It sheds new light on the inadequacy of man's "work" to prove themselves. And since we do not have that higher understanding, we must rely on faith.

I don't say any of this to try to convert you, so please don't get that idea. I simply am trying to explain why, to Christians, man-made works of writing, research, or even scientific theories mean nothing. Because they are just that - man-made, and while men are imperfect, God is not.

I hope I haven't been too confusing in my wording of this - I kinda jumped around topics in my head as I was writing. Please PM me if you'd like to continue this discussion.

There is a problem that inherently lies in the methodology of relying on faith. This becomes apparent when we look around at all the “faiths” there are in the world today and that have been throughout our history, this even extends to regarding superstitions (such as breaking a mirror = bad luck). Faith is not only needed to believe these beliefs man holds but it appears to mislead and convince people of things that are not true.

I am not saying that what you believe isn’t true, I am saying that all of the beliefs (scientology for example) people are taught and convinced of because they rely on their “faith” of these beliefs as being truth. If faith can clearly deceive people how can we know when faith is misleading us and when it isn’t?

The point is if all religious beliefs rely on faith as a methodology to convince their followers of their truth, then how can we determine when faith is true or when it is deceiving us if we can only rely on “faith” as a means to convince ourselves? And aren’t we then just using our own “faith” in what we already believe to convince us that others who have a differing “faith” is misled? Doesn’t it really just boil down to “faith” is just our opinion. Then if we believe that our opinion is truer because we trust our own opinion above others and then call that faith in order to give ourselves reason to trust our own opinion?

I just have a little to say on science.
Science is a methodology used to explain observations. Science is our best proven method to date to understanding and predicting the world around us. So I do love science because it explains things to the degree I like to have things explained.

We rock at derailing.
 
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