Forms of Sola Fide

[klutedavid]

YES! Many continue is evil works.

Hello EmSw.

Are you then proposing the idea, that not everyone who calls on the name of the Lord can be saved?

 

[Albion]

Why have good works then? Do you believe a person void of good works is saved?

Good works are to be done because they are right to do, and because Christ taught us to love God and our neighbor. A person who has saving Faith will certainly do good works for these reasons. He will not remain unchanged from the time before he was saved. The performance of them, however, does not contribute to his salvation or increase his chances of salvation.

 

[EmSw]

Hello EmSw.

Are you then proposing the idea, that not everyone who calls on the name of the Lord can be saved?

Are you proposing the idea that good works are not a part of salvation?

 

[EmSw]

Good works are to be done because they are right to do, and because Christ taught us to love God and our neighbor. A person who has saving Faith will certainly do good works for these reasons. He will not remain unchanged from the time before he was saved. The performance of them, however, does not contribute to his salvation or increase his chances of salvation.

So Albion, do good works need to follow salvation, or do they not? Please don't say anyone WILL do good works if they are saved. Surely you know this is not the case. Many Christians had rather stay in their evil works.

 

[Albion]

Are you proposing the idea that good works are not a part of salvation?

What do you mean by 'a part of?'

 

[klutedavid]

Are you proposing the idea that good works are not a part of salvation?

Hello EmSw.

I have no personal teaching or doctrine on these matters.

The Bible says you can only be saved because you believe in the death, and the resurrection of Jesus Christ.

Salvation is a free gift, are you saying that salvation is not a free gift?

 

[Albion]

So Albion, do good works need to follow salvation, or do they not? Please don't say anyone WILL do good works if they are saved.

They will. Sorry, but that is the answer. If a person has Faith, he will live like it. If he continues to live like a libertine, it is a good bet that he has not been gifted with saving Faith, although it is not for us to judge individuals as to whether they have been saved or not.

Surely you know this is not the case. Many Christians had rather stay in their evil works.

All that you are saying there is that there are people who are members of Christian churches but are not saved or even sincere. I should think that this would be seen as obviously true but not pertinent to what you have been asking about.

 

[EmSw]

They will. Sorry, but that is the answer. If a person has Faith, he will live like it. If he continues to live like a libertine, it is a good bet that he has not been gifted with saving Faith, although it is not for us to judge individuals as to whether they have been saved or not.

Tell me how a saved person can be saved without good works. If they don't have good works, you say they aren't 'gifted with saving faith'. To me, they aren't saved then.

All that you are saying there is that there are people who are members of Christian churches but are not saved or even sincere. I should think that this would be seen as obviously true but not pertinent to what you have been asking about.

Isn't it true that those who continue to do good, are rendered eternal life?

 

[Albion]

Tell me how a saved person can be saved without good works.

Barring something extremely unusual, like being run over by a truck a moment after accepting Christ as one's Lord and Savior and repenting of past sins...

...he cannot be. On the other hand, no one here has told you anything different.

Isn't it true that those who continue to do good, are rendered eternal life?

Who are you talking about? No good work earns any merit with God towards salvation.

 

[jax5434]

Why have good works then? Do you believe a person void of good works is saved?

I am not the one who determines who is saved and who is not. Having said that I would be very concerned about someone who professes Christ but evinces no evidences of it.

God Bless
Jax

 

[amariselle]

The thing is, as soon as we add works for salvation, we cancel grace.

Grace is unmerited favour, completely and totally unearned. Salvation is a gift, not a reward for the good things we have done.

 

[JesusLovesOurLady]

I would say not even that. Both Calvinists and Arminians agree we ae saved by Grace alone thru Faith alone. The difference would be that Calvinists believe that God applies that saving grace to only those that he chose before creation, while Arminians believe that that grace is applied the moment that you acknowledge Jesus as your Lord and Savior.
But again there are some in both camps I'm sure will disagree with me.

God Bless
Jax

Okay, thanks for telling me.

 

[JesusLovesOurLady]

The thing is, as soon as we add works for salvation, we cancel grace.

Grace is unmerited favour, completely and totally unearned. Salvation is a gift, not a reward for the good things we have done.

Wait a minute, I don't want this turn into a debate, (albeit, there already appears to be some debating going on here) but this raises an interesting question. If this is the case, that the moment one adds works for salvation, one cancels grace, does that one means loses salvation the moment one starts doing this? (I assume the once saved always saved people would say no, such a person was never saved in the first place) If so, how does a Lordship Salvation tell the difference between good works coming from him/her vs adding good works to his Justification?

 

[amariselle]

Wait a minute, I don't want this turn into a debate, (albeit, there already appears to be some debating going on here) but this raises an interesting question. If this is the case, that the moment one adds works for salvation, one cancels grace, does that one means loses salvation the moment one starts doing this? (I assume the once saved always saved people would say no, such a person was never saved in the first place) If so, how does a Lordship Salvation tell the difference between good works coming from him/her vs adding good works to his Justification?

I think that's the problem (or a major one) with "Lordship salvation." It is often a very subtle way of adding works, telling people that if their lifestyle doesn't demonstrate good works, then they aren't really saved.

It leaves people looking to themselves for salvation or to be sure they have been saved, rather then looking to Christ alone and His finished work on the cross.

I can speak from personal experience here. For years I was in so much despair because I truly believed that every time I messed up I had lost my salvation or at least could no longer be sure I was saved. I also always felt unsure of my salvation because I was afraid that I didn't have enough "works" or perhaps not the right kind of works.

The point is, it wasn't until I truly understood and believed that Christ really meant it when He said "it is finished", that I truly found peace.

Verse after verse in Scripture confirms that we are saved by believing in Christ.

Romans 3 and Galatians 5 are excellent chapters as well.

 

[shakewell]

Are you saying if no good works are present with man, he is unsaved?

I said good works are the natural result of salvation. By "natural", I mean in accordance with the nature of the new creature (2 Cor 5:7) or the new man (Eph 4:24). When a person becomes saved by faith alone he becomes a new creature (2 Cor 5:7) who is created unto good works (Eph 2:10).

To answer your question, I'm not sure what you mean by "present with". The thief on the cross, for example, didn't have opportunity to perform good works after he was saved by faith alone but I think the "bent" for good works was "present with" him.

But I'm definately not saying that if I don't see good works in someone else who professes to be saved that they're not saved, because that would involve my fallible perception.

 

[EmSw]

Barring something extremely unusual, like being run over by a truck a moment after accepting Christ as one's Lord and Savior and repenting of past sins...

...he cannot be. On the other hand, no one here has told you anything different.

God looks upon the heart; as I've said before, it's the intent of the heart.

Who are you talking about? No good work earns any merit with God towards salvation.

And evil works will not save anyone. Care to show us in the Bible where those who continue in evil works are welcomed into the kingdom? Can you find anywhere it says, continue in your evil works and you will be saved?

 

[EmSw]

I am not the one who determines who is saved and who is not. Having said that I would be very concerned about someone who professes Christ but evinces no evidences of it.

God Bless
Jax

How can anyone call Him Lord and not do the things He says?

 

[EmSw]

I said good works are the natural result of salvation. By "natural", I mean in accordance with the nature of the new creature (2 Cor 5:7) or the new man (Eph 4:24). When a person becomes saved by faith alone he becomes a new creature (2 Cor 5:7) who is created unto good works (Eph 2:10).

To answer your question, I'm not sure what you mean by "present with". The thief on the cross, for example, didn't have opportunity to perform good works after he was saved by faith alone but I think the "bent" for good works was "present with" him.

But I'm definately not saying that if I don't see good works in someone else who professes to be saved that they're not saved, because that would involve my fallible perception.

See post #36.

 

[Albion]

And evil works will not save anyone.

Well, that answers a question that absolutely no one has been worrying about.

Care to show us in the Bible where those who continue in evil works are welcomed into the kingdom? Can you find anywhere it says, continue in your evil works and you will be saved?

I--and others--have already answered this several times.

 

[jax5434]

How can anyone call Him Lord and not do the things He says?

Exactly my point. Either its a false profession or there will be good works.