Formal Debate Peanut Gallery Thread -- Catholic/Orthodox Dialogue -- The Office of the Papacy

[rakovsky]

I wasn't there I can't tell about all what happened there, And I need more documentation,

We have the documentation of the chaplain and of Menendezz the commander that this is who they killed, how, why, and the circumstances. The killers voluntarily announce in writing that the hundreds surrendered and were executed for being Protestant.
You do not need more documentation.

 

[All4Christ]

Ecumenism is about Breaking Ice to Engage in Dialogue, dialogue would either lead to comprehension and Unity or to harder positions.

I don't really see how that impacts what I said. Feel free to take my advice or ignore it.

All of us can be kind and understanding, yet still be firm and uncompromising in our positions.

 

[Alonso_Castillo]

We have the documentation of the chaplain and of Menendezz the commander that this is who they killed, how, why, and the circumstances. The killers voluntarily announce in writing that the hundreds surrendered and were executed for being Protestant.
You do not need more documentation.

Perhaps I would Reject the attitudes that your documentation says there were, but, Surrender doesn't mean conversion. And the invaders knew that Protestants, Muslims and Jews were forbidden to com to America. It was an act of war their invasion in modern standards the killing of captive soldiers would be considered a war crime, but it is also true that the exchange of war soldiers sometimes is reciprocate, if the kings of the nations which they fled denied to pay for their release in previous cases, the new comers would eventually finish the patience of the Spanish army.

By the Way, that commader was not a Priest nor a member of the Inquisition. So your accusation may be against the Militar power of Spain, Not against the Spanish inquisition.

 

[Alonso_Castillo]

I don't really see how that impacts what I said. Feel free to take my advice or ignore it.

All of us can be kind and understanding, yet still be firm and uncompromising in our positions.

This debate is about the office of the Pope, and Orthodox/Catholic Dialogue, and many other issues were brought, being kind is good but do not try to soft with kindness clear disagreements. And as many orthodox started to point their biased views on The Catholic Church then I started to Point towards those deviation of Eastern Orthodoxy from orthodoxy.

 

[All4Christ]

This debate is about the office of the Pope, and Orthodox/Catholic Dialogue, and many other issues were brought, being kind is good but do not try to soft with kindness clear disagreements. And as many orthodox started to point their biased views on The Catholic Church then I started to Point towards those deviation of Eastern Orthodoxy from orthodoxy.

I agree that we cannot soften our views with clear disagreement, but you still can present it clearly with kindness. Also, many of us would say that you have a biased view against Orthodoxy. From your perspective, we deviated from Orthodoxy. From our perspective, you (Catholic Church) have deviated from Orthodoxy.

Often, it seems like you pull out an arsenal of opinions you have against Orthodoxy, and often they aren't fair representations of Orthodoxy.

You are not Orthodox. Your posts sound like you think you are more authoritative on what we believe than those who are Orthodox themselves. I do not consider myself to be the top expert on Catholicism because I am not Catholic. That said, I know the Orthodox beliefs and our history, both good and bad.

We are very well read with the Church Fathers, and have researched our faith well. Many are converts, and many cradle Orthodox on the forum have done their own research as well.

Your views on Orthodoxy are skewed in my opinion, just as I am sure some of our views on Catholicism. Discussions and debates are the perfect time to correct our understanding of your view and us correct your understanding of our views. After all, living our faith makes us much more knowledgeable than someone on the outside.

 

[Alonso_Castillo]

I agree that we cannot soften our views with clear disagreement, but you still can present it clearly with kindness. Also, many of us would say that you have a biased view against Orthodoxy. From your perspective, we deviated from Orthodoxy. From our perspective, you (Catholic Church) have deviated from Orthodoxy.

Often, it seems like you pull out an arsenal of opinions you have against Orthodoxy, and often they aren't fair representations of Orthodoxy.

You are not Orthodox. Your posts sound like you think you are more authoritative on what we believe than those who are Orthodox themselves. I do not consider myself to be the top expert on Catholicism because I am not Catholic. That said, I know the Orthodox beliefs and our history, both good and bad.

We are very well read with the Church Fathers, and have researched our faith well. Many are converts, and many cradle Orthodox on the forum have done their own research as well.

Your views on Orthodoxy are skewed in my opinion, just as I am sure some of our views on Catholicism. Discussions and debates are the perfect time to correct our understanding of your view and us correct your understanding of our views. After all, living our faith makes us much more knowledgeable than someone on the outside.

It it to me disturbing that you are so biased... Rakovsky received not a word from you despite making off topics, and foul agreesions agains the Catholic Church referring to the Spanish Army DAAH?

And yet you only have eyes for me who stop your denomination lies and your denomination errors from spreading.

 

[All4Christ]

It it to me disturbing that you are so biased... Rakovsky received not a word from you despite making off topics, and foul agreesions agains the Catholic Church referring to the Spanish Army DAAH?

And yet you only have eyes for me who stop your denomination lies and your denomination errors from spreading.

I am trying to help primarily in response to your time in TAW, not here. You mentioned that debate wasn't welcome from Apostolic Churches in TAW...that is what I am addressing. My remarks were in response to your comments on St. Justin Martyr's subforum. I also have (this afternoon) been viewing posts that I am quoted more so than reading all posts.

My comments regarding what we should do apply to everyone. We all should present our views in kindness. And I disagree with the lies and errors statement.

You are right that this debate is regarding the Pope, so I will stop discussing debate etiquette in general. I am trying to help explain, but perhaps this isn't the right venue.

 

[rakovsky]

It it to me disturbing that you are so biased... Rakovsky received not a word from you despite making off topics, and foul agreesions agains the Catholic Church referring to the Spanish Army DAAH?

The Off-topic tangents and agressions started with your insertions with message 123 and 124 about Orthodox "lies" we make describing our church.

The tone of the discourse changed alot at that point.
Your support for the Spanish Inquisition is telling.

 

[Alonso_Castillo]

You thought I was being Aggressive but I was answering All4Christ who knows the continuation of the debate I had with them in Saint Justin Martyr Subforum were I flooded the Thread with quotes of the Fathers Pointing towards union with the bishop of Rome, While the orthodox there answered that The Councils were the supreme authority of the Church....

Then the Council of Crete came and we were awaiting all the issues between Orthodox to come to an end and a Happy family coming out as the One Catholic Church free of Ethnocentricity and free of competences between PAtriarchates and with final resolutions on Diaspora churches....

Nothing of that happened, in exchange what it happened was another division between those who Claim Crete Countcil as Ecumenical and those who deny its ecumenicity.

We were debating those issues and showing how was it necessary to have the voice of Peter to settle the Council as truly ecumenical. When some guy arrived and like a goat in Chrystal shop started to break everything and ask for me to be banned... Since then I was forbidden to enter Saint Justin MArtyr Subforum, and when I arrived here and read that "There in Saint Justin Martyr Orthodox are open to debate with non Orthodox...." I just had to said SURE...

 

[All4Christ]

Alonso - I am going to respond in a private message with further explanation, as this may not be the place for me continuing the discussion regarding the events in St. Justin Martyr's subforum.

For the sake of anyone who reads the most recent post though, the situation wasn't as simple as you described, and the problems were based on a series of multiple threads.

 

[FireDragon76]

Do you think the Pope of Rome ever taught error in the few times when he claimed to speak ex cathedra or would you say that although he hasn't done so yet he could in the future?

Is there an infallible list of ex cathedra statements of the Pope? It seems to me there is a great deal of disagreement on this matter among Catholics.