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Forgiveness question

WadeTheophan

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Please correct me if I am in error here because I'm in the midst of writing a letter and would much rather be corrected before rather than after I write it. Someone in church yesterday said that we should "Forgive whether we feel like it or not". I take serious issue with this statement. I mean is it not preferable if we have been offended to take the offense to God in prayer, let him give us some light of understanding in seeing the error in us that caused us to take up the offense so that we might go to the person in genuine heartfelt forgiveness rather than stepping up and saying the empty words "I forgive you" merely as a means of making peace though we have no genuine forgiveness in our heart? This seems like it could have serious ramifications down the road. If we have said the empty words and seemingly put the matter to rest we might very well still harbor the offense allowing it to fester giving the enemy an open highway to cause trouble to say the least.
I must say the reason this bothers me so much is that it came from a priest during a sermon yesterday and I'm about to write him to see if that is what he really meant to say.
 

icxn

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Have you read the Ladder of Divine Ascent? Step 9 in particular, "On remembrance of wrongs?" Verse 11, especially.

Quote:

1. The holy virtues are like Jacob’s ladder, and the unholy vices are like the chains that fell from the chief Apostle Peter. For the virtues, leading from one to another, bear him who chooses them up to Heaven; but the vices by their nature beget and stifle one another. And as we have just heard senseless anger calling remembrance of wrongs its own offspring, it is appropriate that we should now say something about this.
2. Remembrance of wrongs is the consummation of anger, the keeper of sins, hatred of righteousness, ruin of virtues, poison of the soul, worm of the mind, shame of prayer, stopping of supplication, estrangement of love, a nail stuck in the soul, pleasureless feeling beloved in the sweetness of bitterness, continuous sin, unsleeping transgression, hourly malice.
3. This dark and hateful passion, I mean remembrance of wrongs, is one of those that are produced but have no offspring. That is why we do not intend to say much about it.
4. He who has put a stop to anger has also destroyed remembrance of wrongs; because childbirth continues only while the father is alive.
5. He who has obtained love has banished revenge; but he who nurses enmities stores up for himself endless sufferings.
6. A banquet of love dispels hatred, and sincere gifts soothe a soul. But an ill-regulated banquet is the mother of boldness, and through the window of love gluttony leaps in.
7. I have seen hatred break the bond of long-standing fornication, and afterwards remembrance of wrongs, in an amazing way, did not allow the severed union to be renewed. Wonderful sight—a demon curing a demon! But perhaps this is the work not of demons but of Divine Providence.
8. Remembrance of wrongs is far from strong natural love, but fornication easily comes near it, just as a hidden louse can some times be seen in a dove.
9. Be malicious and spiteful against the demons, and be at constant enmity with your body. The flesh is a headstrong and treacherous friend. The more you care for it, the more it injures you.
10. Remembrance of wrongs is an interpreter of Scripture of the kind that adjusts the words of the Spirit to its own views. Let it be put to shame by the Prayer of Jesus which cannot be said with it.
11. When, after much struggling, you are still unable to extract this thorn, you should apologize to your enemy, even if only in word. Then perhaps you may be ashamed of your long-standing insincerity towards him, and, as your conscience stings you like fire, you may feel perfect love towards him.
12. You will know that you have completely got rid of this rot,1 not when you pray for the person who has offended you, nor when you exchange presents with him, nor when you invite him to your table, but only when, on hearing that he has fallen into spiritual or bodily misfortune, you suffer and weep for him as for yourself.
13. A malicious anchorite is an adder hidden in a hole, which carries about within itself deadly poison.
14. The remembrance of Jesus’ sufferings cures remembrance of wrongs which is mightily shamed by His forbearance.
15. Worms grow in a rotten tree, and malice finds a place in falsely meek and silent people. He who has cast it out has found forgiveness, but he who sticks to it is deprived of mercy.
16. Some, for the sake of forgiveness, give themselves up to labours and struggles, but a man who is forgetful of wrongs excels them. If you forgive quickly, then you will be generously forgiven.
17. The forgetting of wrongs is a sign of true repentance. But he who dwells on them and thinks that he is repenting is like a man who thinks he is running while he is really asleep.
18. I have seen resentful people recommend forgiveness to others. Yes, and being put to shame by their own words, they rid themselves of the passion.
19. Let no one regard dark spite as a harmless passion, for it often manages to reach out even to spiritual men.
The ninth step. Let him who has reached it boldly ask the Saviour Jesus for release from his sins for the future.
 
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WadeTheophan

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I've read The Ladder of Divine Ascent but it has been a few years and I have the icon on my wall to remind me daily. I can't tell you how much I appreciate you taking the time to write this very complete response. Thank you!
 
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~Anastasia~

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I agree that to forgive in word only would be disastrous at some point. But I doubt that's what your priest really meant?

Sometimes we do start out not WANTING to forgive, and the best we can manage are the words, maybe given grudgingly. Or not even that. Grudging prayer comes to mind. If that's where we are, then that's where we are and how we start. But we SHOULD certainly want to continue acting on that, working to grow true forgiveness in that particular offense, and then also working to become persons who forgive easily and are slow to take offense in the first place, all done with help of God's grace of course, and using the wisdom and tools offered us by the Church as they might be fitting for us.

But forgiveness, like love, comes from an act of will, not drummed-up feelings as we might often think. Sometimes the feelings follow, and sometimes slowly. It's more important, I think, what kind of person we are becoming, and how our thoughts and actions help to shape that.
 
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ArmyMatt

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I think it's also that for us, forgiveness is not always saying someone is square with the house. you can say forgiveness is to seek the good of the other despite wrongs that the other has done. so I might not feel like forgiving you, but I will still seek your best in spite of my feelings. and maybe with God's grace, some day my feeling will match my action.
 
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Glaucus

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This reminds me of what I once read about the Holy Scriptures. I'm severely paraphrasing because I can't remember where I read it, but: Read the Scriptures even if you have no understanding of what you are reading, for the demons do understand what you are reading, and they tremble.

So, if it's in accordance with God's Will, do and say things, even if you don't understand or agree. Eventually, understanding will be brought to you, or in this case, true forgiveness.
 
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Bessie

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You know, Christ says that if someone repents we should forgive them, and if they say, "I repent" you should forgive them. I have heard my priest say that forgiveness is when we are able to love someone as we love ourselves again. I don't mean to say that simply saying we forgive when we don't feel it is ideal, but it's a step. None of us can obtain true repentance or true forgiveness without help from God, but we have to be able to work with him. If we are willing to say, "I forgive you" and try to make that true, then we open the door for God to do the work in us. If we refuse to say it because we are waiting on a feeling, we may never get there. Feelings follow actions a lot more often than the other way around in my experience.
 
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Antony in Tx

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I think that to say God forgives us only when we repent is not exactly right. God is always forgiving, it requires repentance for us to benefit from the Grace of God's forgiveness. That is the nature of sin, that it is what keeps us from God's love. Not that God's love isn't there, it's that we are doing things to keep up from connecting with Him. If we forgive someone even though they have not asked forgiveness, we are being a conduit for God's Grace. It will then be on them to feel the sting of their sin of not accepting that grace until they repent.
 
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WadeTheophan

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You know, Christ says that if someone repents we should forgive them, and if they say, "I repent" you should forgive them. I have heard my priest say that forgiveness is when we are able to love someone as we love ourselves again. I don't mean to say that simply saying we forgive when we don't feel it is ideal, but it's a step. None of us can obtain true repentance or true forgiveness without help from God, but we have to be able to work with him. If we are willing to say, "I forgive you" and try to make that true, then we open the door for God to do the work in us. If we refuse to say it because we are waiting on a feeling, we may never get there. Feelings follow actions a lot more often than the other way around in my experience.
I would never endorse or use the term "waiting on a feeling". That is the wrong idea altogether. What we should strive for is to WORK, cleaning our own house in the light of God through prayer, digging out the reason we took offense in the first place and ask for forgiveness from God for our error in taking up the offense till we genuinely, to the core of our being, absolutely forgive from our heart and feel almost compelled to face the offender to forgive them.
 
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All4Christ

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Father told me that forgiving doesn’t necessarily mean forgetting. When someone sins against us, we may be hurt - and sometimes rightfully so. However, we are to be merciful as our Lord is merciful. So we offer our forgiveness, pray to God to help us forgive and to help reconcile ourselves with what happened. Each time a negative thought comes, say a prayer for that person. Ultimately, unforgiveness hurts us even more than the offender. Just as we ask our Lord to have mercy on us - we too need to have mercy on others, no matter how we feel personally. It’s much easier said than done. I struggle with it often, especially when it is a repeating offense.
 
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All4Christ

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God knows what helps us spiritually. Holding an offense against someone distracts us from following God wholeheartedly. The negative feelings weigh us down and cause spiritual harm. The Enemy wants us to be distracted from the Truth - and uses any means possible to do so. That said - forgiveness heals our souls - and helps us to follow God. Forgiveness despite not getting an apology is even more difficult to follow - but we are told to turn the other cheek, to forgive others always, to give love when we receive hate. It is opposite to our natural reaction - but is very important.

I’m saying this from experience. There is a situation where there was severe harm (I won’t go into the details), and forgiveness despite cutting off all contact with him was critical for me to heal spiritually and emotionally. If I ever saw him again, I would leave immediately, as the hurt will always linger to some extent while here on earth...but the constant pain and self-destructive thoughts were removed.
 
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Paidiske

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