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Forgiveness following divorce and remarriage

concretecamper

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I wish that people would look up how LOW are the percentages of annulment to marriages in the RCC. With the divorce rate among Catholics even with the rest of society and so few annulments in comparison it can hardly be considered Catholic divorce by reasonable people....except to those who already have an axe to grind.
 
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Jan001

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What is your source on this meaning of the word porneia? I am very curious.

We know that a legitimate/lawful marriage cannot ever be dissolved unless one of the spouses dies, and so therefore Jesus was talking about illegitimate/unlawful marriages according to God and not simply about adultery in general. Adultery by either of the spouses is not grounds to dissolve a marriage according to God's law. They may separate and get a civil divorce, but neither is allowed to remarry unless their spouse dies.

Matthew 19:6
So they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore, what God has joined together, no human being must separate. NABRE

Matthew 19:9
I say to you, whoever divorces his wife (unless the marriage is unlawful) and marries another commits adultery.” NABRE

Here are some writings from the early church fathers:

The Early Church Fathers on Divorce and Remarriage


The Early Church Fathers taught that a legitimate marriage lasted to death. And if separation became necessary a person was to remain single as long as the former spouse was alive. This was not a matter of Church law per-se but a direct result of the words of Jesus: “Everyone who divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery, and he who marries a woman divorced from her husband commits adultery” (Luke 16:18).


Hermas

What then shall the husband do, if the wife continue in this disposition [adultery]? Let him divorce her, and let the husband remain single. But if he divorces his wife and marries another, he too commits adultery (Shepherd 4:1:6 [A.D. 80]).


Justin Martyr

In regard to chastity, [Jesus] has this to say: If anyone look with lust at a woman, he has already before God committed adultery in his heart. "And, whoever marries a woman who has been divorced from another husband, commits adultery." According to our Teacher, just as they are sinners who contract a second marriage, even though it be in accord with human law, so also are they sinners who look with lustful desire at a woman. He repudiates not only one who actually commits adultery, but even one who wishes to do so; for not only our actions are manifest to God, but even our thoughts (First Apology 15 [A.D. 151]).


Clement of Alexandria

That Scripture counsels marriage, however, and never allows any release from the union is expressly contained in the law: "You shall not divorce a wife, except for reason of immorality." And it regards as adultery the marriage of a spouse, while the one from whom a separation was made is still alive. "Whoever takes a divorced woman as wife commits adultery," it says: "for if anyone divorces his wife, he debauches her"; that is, he compels her to commit adultery. And not only does he that divorces her become the cause of this, but also he that takes the woman and gives her the opportunity of sinning; for if he did not take her, she would return to her husband (Miscellanies 2:23:145:3 [A.D. 208]).


Origen

Just as a woman is an adulteress, even though she seems to be married to a man, while a former husband yet lives, so also the man who seems to marry her [and] who has been divorced does not marry her, but, according to the declaration of our Savior, he commits adultery with her (Commentaries on Matthew 14:24 [A.D. 248]).


Council of Elvira

Likewise, a woman of the faith [i.e., a baptized person] who has left an adulterous husband of the faith and marries another, her marrying in this manner is prohibited. If she has so married, she may not at any more receive communion — unless he that she has left has since departed from this world (canon 9 [A.D. 324]).

If she whom a catechumen [an unbaptized person studying the faith] has left shall have married a husband, she is able to be admitted to the fountain of baptism. This shall also be observed in the instance where it is the woman who is the catechumen. But if a woman of the faithful is taken in marriage by a man who left an innocent wife, and if she knew that he had a wife whom he had left without cause, it is determined that Communion is not to be given to her even at death (canon 10).


Ambrose of Milan

No one is permitted to know a woman other than his wife. The marital right is given you for this reason: lest you fall into the snare and sin with a strange woman. "If you are bound to a wife, do not seek a divorce"; for you are not permitted, while your wife lives, to marry another (Abraham 1:7:59 [A.D. 387]).

You dismiss your wife, therefore, as if by right and without being charged with wrong doing and you suppose it is proper for you to do so because no human law forbids it; but divine law forbids it. Anyone who obeys men ought to stand in awe of God. Hear the law of the Lord, which even they who propose our laws must obey: "What God has joined together let no man put asunder" (Commentary on Luke 8:5 [A.D. 389]).


Jerome

Wherever there is fornication and a suspicion of fornication a wife is freely dismissed. Because it is always possible that someone may calumniate the innocent and, for the sake of a second joining in marriage, act in criminal fashion against the first, it is commanded that when the first wife is dismissed a second may not be taken while the first lives (Commentaries on Matthew 3:19:9 [A.D. 398]).


Pope Innocent I

[T]he practice is observed by all of regarding as an adulteress a woman who marries a second time while her husband yet lives, and permission to do penance is not granted her until one of them is dead (Letters 2:13:15 [A.D. 408]).


Augustine

Neither can it rightly be held that a husband who dismisses his wife because of fornication and marries another does not commit adultery. For there is also adultery on the part of those who, after the repudiation of their former wives because of fornication, marry others. This adultery, nevertheless, is certainly less serious than that of men who dismiss their wives for reasons other than fornication and take other wives. Therefore, when we say; "Whoever marries a woman dismissed by her husband for reason other than fornication commits adultery," undoubtedly we speak the truth. But we do not thereby acquit of this crime the man who marries a woman who was dismissed because of fornication. We do not doubt in the least that both are adulterers. We do indeed pronounce him an adulterer who dismissed his wife for cause other than fornication and marries another, nor do we thereby defend from the taint of this sin the man who dismissed his wife because of fornication and marries another. We recognize that both are adulterers, though the sin of one is graver than that of the other. No one is so unreasonable to say that a man who marries a woman whose husband has dismissed her because of fornication is not an adulterer, while maintaining that a man who marries a woman dismissed without the ground of fornication is an adulterer. Both of these men are guilty of adultery (Adulterous Marriages 1:9:9 [A.D. 419]).

From: http://www.staycatholic.com/ecf_divorce_and_remarriage.htm
 
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VanillaSunflowers

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If someone divorced their spouse in a sinful way, and then remarried, ive heard it said that God would forgive their sin, and they move on with the next marriage.

Firstly, is the second marriage recognised by God, and if not, doesnt this make the second marriage, an ongoing sinful adulterous relationship that shouldnt continue?
So forgiveness in that context couldnt validate more of the same?

We just had a sermon on divorce, so its a question that was raised.
It is becoming a very strange world isn't it? We hear about former churches that released the covenantal relationship with God and Jesus Christ. And adopted the worlds doctrine that reveres all the attributes of the adverse of righteousness in order to perform a union ritual before the former altar dedicated to Christ and salvation and marry the sons and daughters of Sodom in his name.

And likely the same people who think that is progressive Christianity will tell you that a second marriage for a Christian after divorce is wrong. And can't be done while the husband or wife one divorced still lives. All, they say , according to scripture.

What is hell on earth? Living in a marriage with a demon.

Maybe what compels someone to think of and pursue divorce is God's holy spirit finally getting through. That all those whispers he made to them in the dating stage to cut it off and not go to that next step were ignored when it was an easy break. Now though it is worse and the sacred message had to grow louder to make it clear that this one is the wrong one.

The scriptures say adultery is grounds for divorce. The scriptures say so to is finding you're with an unbeliever.
The context of those two categories are vast. Decide for yourself which God you serve. One that wants to see you gnash your teeth hating every moment of your life with someone you don't believe in, don't want, don't trust, don't like, can't love when you don't trust or like them, because somewhere someone convinced you you have to endure no matter what? Else the universal power will get mad? Pride is a sin. The greatest pride the ego could conjure is to think God is studiously watching "you" to make sure every little thing you do pleases him.

God forgives divorce. It frees two people to find a life they deserve. God doesn't need us to suffer to make him better. And if God is love he certainly doesn't expect us to suffer in order to please him. That's the stuff needed by the other guy.
 
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VanillaSunflowers

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I wish that people would look up how LOW are the percentages of annulment to marriages in the RCC. With the divorce rate among Catholics even with the rest of society and so few annulments in comparison it can hardly be considered Catholic divorce by reasonable people....except to those who already have an axe to grind.
Not everyone is Catholic and are therefore not obligated to live according to the dictates of the RCC.
 
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Galilee63

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God very much holds sins against us without repentance to our Lord Jesus and without turning to Jesus and His Mercy including the sins of separation and/or divorce of which are breaking God's Commandments.

Jesus said to His Saints and Martyrs with Saint Faustina in the 1930s:
"Tell sinners that no one shall escape My Just Hand. if they run away from My Merciful Heart, they will fall into My Just Hands. Tell sinners that I am always waiting for them, that I listen intently to the beating of their Heart...When will it beat for Me?"
"Write that I am speaking to them through their remorse of conscience, through their failures and sufferings, through thunderstorms, through the Voice of The Church. And if they bring all My Graces to naught, I begin to be angry with them leaving them alone and giving them what they want".

Prayer to Jesus and Mother Mary from hearts open to Him.
Fasting if healthy to be able to receive Jesus into our hearts more strongly and block satan at the same time.
Repentance of sins in remorse to Jesus regularly.
Receiving God's Blessed Holy Eucharist
Baptism
Confirmation
Reconciliation

of which are all received in Jesus' Catholic Church with Saint Peter chosen as Jesus' Disciple Founding His Church in Rome of which is Catholic because for one reason being that Jesus requested "Repent sins and believe in The Good News".

The Catholic Church of which Jesus, God and The Holy Spirit chose have people able to repent their sins in genuine remorse to Jesus through His Priests, receive His Blessed Holy Sacraments - all of God's Blessed Holy Sacraments and Jesus is Manifested/Present within His Blessed Sacrament Itself and within His Holy Tabernacle. Trust as Jesus says Himself in Him is the key for Jesus to be received into hearts and opened up by Him and The Holy Spirit and Mother Mary...leading to repentance of sins and receiving His Mercy.

God judges us for every one of His broken Commandments.
Nothing has changed because God has not changed nor His Commandments eternally in His Holy Will.

We are accountable for separation and divorce in God's Holy Will.
 
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PeterDona

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The scriptures say adultery is grounds for divorce.
No.
The scriptures say so to is finding you're with an unbeliever.
Neither
The context of those two categories are vast.
Well, once you open the door for divorce, it will not just open a little, it will slam open ! The Spirit is ready, but the flesh is weak.

I serve a God who asks me to be FAITHFUL, not SUCCESSFUL.
 
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VanillaSunflowers

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No. Neither
Well, once you open the door for divorce, it will not just open a little, it will slam open ! The Spirit is ready, but the flesh is weak.

I serve a God who asks me to be FAITHFUL, not SUCCESSFUL.
I don't know about all that. But I do know the scriptures and your, "no" and "neither" , is example that you do not.
 
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Meowzltov

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Your answer dichotomizes the covenant and the Sacrament, but the whole basis of the Sacrament being invalid in Catholic annulments is that the covenant was invalid. Ergo, it's incoherent to say the covenant was valid, but the Sacrament was invalid.
You don't see that there are times when a marriage is legal but not sacramental?
 
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Meowzltov

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The Bible has a word, "overcome", in Revelation. It does mean that we have the victory and shall live by it.
That's when Messiah has returned. It doesn't mean we won't be persecuted here on earth. Christians in the Levant having their churches burnt down, being driven from their homes, their women raped, and their children enslaved by ISIS certainly don't feel they are overcoming at present. Neither should we. Overcoming is something that happens at the end.
 
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hedrick

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That's when Messiah has returned. It doesn't mean we won't be persecuted here on earth. Christians in the Levant having their churches burnt down, being driven from their homes, their women raped, and their children enslaved by ISIS certainly don't feel they are overcoming at present. Neither should we. Overcoming is something that happens at the end.
I believe the intended meaning in the Rev is that by holding to the faith in difficult trials, one overcomes evil. It doesn't mean that life is necessarily comfortable.
 
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Meowzltov

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I believe the intended meaning in the Rev is that by holding to the faith in difficult trials, one overcomes evil. It doesn't mean that life is necessarily comfortable.
Oh, I see what you are saying. That kind of overcoming of evil is personal. Not external. It means that evil will not conquer us; it doesn't mean that it won't conquer society. What did you think about my example of ISIS' persecution?
 
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hedrick

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Oh, I see what you are saying. That kind of overcoming of evil is personal. Not external. It means that evil will not conquer us; it doesn't mean that it won't conquer society. What did you think about my example of ISIS' persecution?
I think that those who maintain their faith would be considered overcomes by the author of the Rev. The whole point was to encourage Christians being persecuted by Rome.
 
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Meowzltov

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I think that those who maintain their faith would be considered overcomes by the author of the Rev. The whole point was to encourage Christians being persecuted by Rome.
Well, we agree on that point, now that I understand you. My original point was that we have lost the culture war, and must prepare for a time of persecution. If you also agree with that, then we agree all around.
 
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hedrick

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Well, we agree on that point, now that I understand you. My original point was that we have lost the culture war, and must prepare for a time of persecution. If you also agree with that, then we agree all around.
I think conservative Christians have lost the culture wars. I'm not convinced about persecution, except using dubious claims of persecution. I'm more concerned about the effect on public perception of Christianity. It used to be that people may have thought we were unrealistic, but Christians were considered to have a generally helpful influence. This is the first time that the public (with some justification, in my view) thinks that Christians are advocating immoral positions.

I'm speaking here of the US. In the Muslim-majority world, persecution is quite real.
 
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Meowzltov

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I think conservative Christians have lost the culture wars. I'm not convinced about persecution, except using dubious claims of persecution.
I can't shop in Target anymore without being afraid of using the restrooms lest a urophiliac pretending to be transgender be in there listening to me pee. It's abusive.

We have a new interpretation of Title IX funding that threatens to shut down Christian universities: if a university has rules against, say, practicing homosexuality or cross dressing on moral grounds, if it insists on men only living in dorms with other men, or showering only in men's showers or using only men's restrooms, it can loose Federal tuition scholarships. I call that persecution.

I think it won't be long before Churches will be legally required to perform same sex weddings in order to be able to issue marriage licenses, etc. We will see an age where for example, Catholics will be sacramentaly married but not legally married.
 
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Meowzltov

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hedrick

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We have a new interpretation of Title IX funding that threatens to shut down Christian universities: if a university has rules against, say, practicing homosexuality or cross dressing on moral grounds, if it insists on men only living in dorms with other men, or showering only in men's showers or using only men's restrooms, it can loose Federal tuition scholarships. I call that persecution.
There is an exemption from Title IX for religious institutions.
I think it won't be long before Churches will be legally required to perform same sex weddings in order to be able to issue marriage licenses, etc. We will see an age where for example, Catholics will be sacramentaly married but not legally married.
Unless a Church runs a public service for marriages (which could be covered under public accommodations laws), there's no ground for interference. This is paranoia. Churches commonly limit marriages to members, and often accept only people who have passed counseling with the pastor. There's no sign of an issue. Churches can marry only whites today if they want.

The primary issues have been with businesses or organizations not formally associated with churches.
 
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Constantine the Sinner

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I guess I'm missing what point it is you are trying to make.
Every single Catholic married couple who would be able to get an annulment if they tried all avenues, is living in fornication. Yet, presumably, only a small portion of those who could qualify actually remedy this by applying for an annulment. That's a serious problem.
 
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ManyWeaknesses

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As a christian who has been attending Protestant churches all my life, I felt their general stance in favour of divorce and remarriage was unbiblical.

It isn't surprising really. I discovered that Protestant churches have changed their beliefs about the marriage, contraception, the deuterocanon being in the KJV, woman ordained to be pastors.

The Bible is really clear that remarriage is forbidden; The Church that Jesus established(The Catholic Church) has always forbidden remarriage.
 
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