Forgiveness ≠ License to Sin

[fhansen]

I try my best, though Jesus can help me, as Proverbs says.

Proverbs 3:5-6 (NIV): "Trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding; in all your ways submit to him, and he will make your paths straight."

This passage encourages us to trust fully in the Lord and not rely on our own wisdom or understanding. It also urges us to submit our ways to God, who will make our paths straight. This means that when we choose to follow God's will, we can trust that He will guide us and lead us in the right direction.

Nice. I also like:

“Apart from Me you can do nothing.” John 15:5
“With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.” Matt 19:26
“I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me. Phil 4:13

 

[HIM]

Does this mean that Jesus is the cause, but you are the affect/effect?
Is it you that effects your obedience?

No it means what the post says. @Grip Docility said," When I asked; "believe What", I was hoping you would simply respond with one word that I would respond with. Jesus"

To just answer and say Jesus, which is the cause. And not explain and show the affect avails nothing. Here is the post again.
Take care

"He is the cause, without the affect we are but what we were. Hence the answer, through Christ WE have the Law in our heart and mind. We are Begotten by the word of truth, A new creature, and all is new and of God. He is the First among many brethren. It is God that works in us both to will and do His good pleasure. As Jesus said, He doeth the work. And greater things shall you do because I go unto the Father. I will not leave you comfortless, I will come unto you. I in you, you in Me that the world might believe."

 

[AlexB23]

Nice. I also like:

“Apart from Me you can do nothing.” John 15:5
“With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.” Matt 19:26
“I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me. Phil 4:13

I like these verses a lot. For those who are discouraged, these three verses can help.

 

[The Liturgist]

. So sexuality is not sin

It is if it is used outside of heterosexual marriage, which furthermore for those baptized as Christians is required to be monogamous (the early church did receive polygamists without forcing them to break up their families, but never performed polygamist marriages or condoned polygamy, for clearly, the time for that had passed, and it is something that under present conditions becomes misogynistic, and the early church was a breath of fresh air from the pure distilled misogyny of Greco-Roman society,

 

[Dan Perez]

Hello folks. Today's study is on how Jesus forgives us of our sins, but does not condone our sins. Habitual sins will also be covered in this devotional.

Date​	June 30, 2024 | Forgiveness ≠ License to Sin​
Verse​	Romans 6:1-4 (NIV): "What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? By no means! We are those who have died to sin; how can we live in it any longer? Or don’t you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life." Romans 7:21-25 (NIV): "So I find this law at work: Although I want to do good, evil is right there with me. For in my inner being I delight in God’s law; but I see another law at work in me, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within me. What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body that is subject to death? Thanks be to God, who delivers me through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, I myself in my mind am a slave to God’s law, but in my sinful nature a slave to the law of sin." 1 John 3:9 (NIV): "No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in them; they cannot go on sinning, because they have been born of God." John 8:10-11 (NIV): "Jesus straightened up and asked her, ‘Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?’ ‘No one, sir,’ she said. “Then neither do I condemn you,” Jesus declared. ‘Go now and leave your life of sin.’"​
Explanation​	These four passages from the Bible discuss the relationship between sin, grace, and the Christian life. In Romans 6:1-4, Paul is addressing the idea that because of God's grace and mercy, Christians might think they can continue to sin without consequences. However, Paul strongly asserts that this is not the case. He explains that believers have died to sin and have been raised to new life in Christ. Being baptized into Christ means being identified with Him in His death and resurrection. Therefore, Christians should no longer live in sin but instead strive to live a new life in Christ. Romans 7:21-25 comes from Paul's personal struggle with sin. He acknowledges the desire to do good, but the presence of sin within him. Paul confesses that he is a slave to God's law in his mind but a prisoner of sin in his sinful nature. He expresses his wretchedness and seeks rescue from his sinful nature. However, he ultimately finds hope and deliverance through Jesus Christ. This passage emphasizes the ongoing battle against sin and the need for God's grace and mercy. 1 John 3:9 states that those who are born of God cannot continue to live in sin. This passage highlights the transformative power of the new birth and the reality that true followers of Christ will produce good fruit and turn away from sin. In John 8:10-11, Jesus encounters a woman caught in adultery. He neither condemns her nor excuses her sin. Instead, He tells her to leave her life of sin. This passage illustrates Jesus' compassionate approach to sin and His call for repentance and transformation. Regarding forgiveness and avoiding a license to sin, these verses teach that God's grace is not an excuse to continue living in sin. Instead, it is a call to live a new life in Christ, transformed by His love and power. Christians are to strive for holiness and obedience, but they are not saved by their own effort or perfection. They are saved by God's grace and mercy, and that same grace empowers them to live a life worthy of their calling.​
Societal Relevance​	Strategies to avoid habitual sins and the trap of excusing sins in the modern world: Pray for the strength and wisdom to recognize and resist temptation. Cultivate healthy relationships that encourage and support your spiritual growth. Seek accountability through small groups, mentors, or spiritual friends. For instance, an alcoholic or drug addict could go to an an Alcoholics’ Anonymous group, or Narcotics Anonymous respectively. Regularly reflect on your thoughts, words, and actions to identify areas of growth and repentance. Practice forgiveness towards others and towards yourself. Surround yourself with positive influences and avoid those that encourage or enable sinful behavior. Memorize and meditate on Scripture that speaks to your specific struggles and provides encouragement and guidance. Live a balanced life, prioritizing physical, emotional, and spiritual health. Seek professional help if necessary, such as counseling or addiction recovery programs. Remember that you are not defined by your struggles or sins, but by God's love and grace. Focus on the transformative power of the Holy Spirit and lean on His strength in your daily life. Cultivate a heart of gratitude and obedience to God, recognizing that your salvation is not based on your own effort but on His grace. For myself, habitual sins can be a struggle. For instance, beating my plantain is my vice. While I have always stayed away from inappropriate visual content, the feeling of jerking off can be very addicting. However, I pray almost every night about this, and try my best not to. Another struggle for me is being quick to judge, and has been since middle school or so. Sometimes, my thinking can be in black and white, without viewing both sides of the argument. Recently though, I have been slowly getting better at more nuanced thinking, but have a long way to go. Jesus will always continue to forgive us, but we must try our best to repent of our sins.

I have some questions under EXPLANATION ??

# 1 1 JOHN 3:9 reads , whosoever is BORN OF GOD , verse how that Happens ??

#2 Doth NOT // OU is a Disjuncative Particle Negative and it means that person will NEVER commit sin , EVER

# 3 Is 1 John 3:9 under the OLD COVENANT ?

# 4 Or is that salvation by the New Covenant ?

# 5 Or it salvation by Mark 16:16-18 ??

# 6 Or can it be salvation , per Eph 2:8

dan p

 

[tampasteve]

ADMIN HAT ON

This forum is for discussing Christian Scriptures, not so much intended as a Prayer Wall of confessional.

As such, a number of posts have been deleted.

ADMIN HAT OFF

 

[AlexB23]

ADMIN HAT ON

This forum is for discussing Christian Scriptures, not so much intended as a Prayer Wall of confessional.

As such, a number of posts have been deleted.

ADMIN HAT OFF

Thank you for the update.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Hello folks. Today's study is on how Jesus forgives us of our sins, but does not condone our sins. Habitual sins will also be covered in this devotional.

Date​	June 30, 2024 | Forgiveness ≠ License to Sin​
Verse​	Romans 6:1-4 (NIV): "What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? By no means! We are those who have died to sin; how can we live in it any longer? Or don’t you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life." Romans 7:21-25 (NIV): "So I find this law at work: Although I want to do good, evil is right there with me. For in my inner being I delight in God’s law; but I see another law at work in me, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within me. What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body that is subject to death? Thanks be to God, who delivers me through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, I myself in my mind am a slave to God’s law, but in my sinful nature a slave to the law of sin." 1 John 3:9 (NIV): "No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in them; they cannot go on sinning, because they have been born of God." John 8:10-11 (NIV): "Jesus straightened up and asked her, ‘Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?’ ‘No one, sir,’ she said. “Then neither do I condemn you,” Jesus declared. ‘Go now and leave your life of sin.’"​
Explanation​	These four passages from the Bible discuss the relationship between sin, grace, and the Christian life. In Romans 6:1-4, Paul is addressing the idea that because of God's grace and mercy, Christians might think they can continue to sin without consequences. However, Paul strongly asserts that this is not the case. He explains that believers have died to sin and have been raised to new life in Christ. Being baptized into Christ means being identified with Him in His death and resurrection. Therefore, Christians should no longer live in sin but instead strive to live a new life in Christ. Romans 7:21-25 comes from Paul's personal struggle with sin. He acknowledges the desire to do good, but the presence of sin within him. Paul confesses that he is a slave to God's law in his mind but a prisoner of sin in his sinful nature. He expresses his wretchedness and seeks rescue from his sinful nature. However, he ultimately finds hope and deliverance through Jesus Christ. This passage emphasizes the ongoing battle against sin and the need for God's grace and mercy. 1 John 3:9 states that those who are born of God cannot continue to live in sin. This passage highlights the transformative power of the new birth and the reality that true followers of Christ will produce good fruit and turn away from sin. In John 8:10-11, Jesus encounters a woman caught in adultery. He neither condemns her nor excuses her sin. Instead, He tells her to leave her life of sin. This passage illustrates Jesus' compassionate approach to sin and His call for repentance and transformation. Regarding forgiveness and avoiding a license to sin, these verses teach that God's grace is not an excuse to continue living in sin. Instead, it is a call to live a new life in Christ, transformed by His love and power. Christians are to strive for holiness and obedience, but they are not saved by their own effort or perfection. They are saved by God's grace and mercy, and that same grace empowers them to live a life worthy of their calling.​
Societal Relevance​	Strategies to avoid habitual sins and the trap of excusing sins in the modern world: Pray for the strength and wisdom to recognize and resist temptation. Cultivate healthy relationships that encourage and support your spiritual growth. Seek accountability through small groups, mentors, or spiritual friends. For instance, an alcoholic or drug addict could go to an an Alcoholics’ Anonymous group, or Narcotics Anonymous respectively. Regularly reflect on your thoughts, words, and actions to identify areas of growth and repentance. Practice forgiveness towards others and towards yourself. Surround yourself with positive influences and avoid those that encourage or enable sinful behavior. Memorize and meditate on Scripture that speaks to your specific struggles and provides encouragement and guidance. Live a balanced life, prioritizing physical, emotional, and spiritual health. Seek professional help if necessary, such as counseling or addiction recovery programs. Remember that you are not defined by your struggles or sins, but by God's love and grace. Focus on the transformative power of the Holy Spirit and lean on His strength in your daily life. Cultivate a heart of gratitude and obedience to God, recognizing that your salvation is not based on your own effort but on His grace. For myself, habitual sins can be a struggle. For instance, beating my plantain is my vice. While I have always stayed away from inappropriate visual content, the feeling of jerking off can be very addicting. However, I pray almost every night about this, and try my best not to. Another struggle for me is being quick to judge, and has been since middle school or so. Sometimes, my thinking can be in black and white, without viewing both sides of the argument. Recently though, I have been slowly getting better at more nuanced thinking, but have a long way to go. Jesus will always continue to forgive us, but we must try our best to repent of our sins.

Matthew 13:41-42 says that the Son of Man (JESUS) will send forth His angels and they will gather out of HIS KINGDOM all who do iniquity and they will be cast into the furnace of fire (i.e., the Lake of Fire).

John 8:34-35 says,
Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin. And the servant abideth not in the house for ever:…”

The servant or slave of sin will not abide in the house (Kingdom) of Christ forever because they will be cast into the furnace of fire because they worked iniquity by believing they can sin and still be saved.

The only hope is to confess and forsake your sins to the Lord Jesus Christ in order to have mercy (Proverbs 28:13) (1 John 1:9) (1 John 1:7).

1 John 1:8 is referring to the gnostic belief that says sin does not exist similar to how Christian Scientists today think sin is an illusion. 1 John 1:8 is not a justification for our sin. So unless you are a Christian Scientist or you believe sin does not exist for you, then 1 John 1:8 does not apply to you. John was warning the brethren about this belief from the gnostics at their time. It's not a license to sin.

Think. Even the apostle Paul himself said if you do not provide for your own, you are worse than infidel (unbeliever) in 1 Timothy 5:8. To provide for your own takes work. But this would be the work of faith. Faith accesses the saving grace of God. Sure, we are saved by God's grace through faith without works, but this is in our Initial Salvation. Read Acts 15 in the KJV about the false teaching of Circumcision Salvationism and then compare that with Paul's statements in Ephesians 2, Galatians, Romans 4, Romans 7, etc. Paul is not advocating Perpetual Belief Alone Salvationism. Temporal Belief Alone Salvationism? Yes. This is when we first get saved by believing the gospel message in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4. But be not deceived. The unrighteous will not inherit the Kingdom of God. Without holiness, no man shall see the Lord.

Side Note:

This is also not keeping the Old Law, either (Although the Moral Law has carried over like love your neighbor, and do not covet, steal, etc). We are not under the Sabbath command, or dietary laws, or keeping laws on animal sacrifices, etcetera. We follow the commands that come from Jesus Christ and His followers.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I like these verses a lot. For those who are discouraged, these three verses can help.

God will not help us or work through us if we justify sin or think we can sin and still be saved.

John 9:31
"Now we know that God heareth not sinners: but if any man be a worshipper of God, and doeth his will, him he heareth."

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Hello folks. Today's study is on how Jesus forgives us of our sins, but does not condone our sins. Habitual sins will also be covered in this devotional.

Date​	June 30, 2024 | Forgiveness ≠ License to Sin​
Verse​	Romans 6:1-4 (NIV): "What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? By no means! We are those who have died to sin; how can we live in it any longer? Or don’t you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life." Romans 7:21-25 (NIV): "So I find this law at work: Although I want to do good, evil is right there with me. For in my inner being I delight in God’s law; but I see another law at work in me, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within me. What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body that is subject to death? Thanks be to God, who delivers me through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, I myself in my mind am a slave to God’s law, but in my sinful nature a slave to the law of sin." 1 John 3:9 (NIV): "No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in them; they cannot go on sinning, because they have been born of God." John 8:10-11 (NIV): "Jesus straightened up and asked her, ‘Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?’ ‘No one, sir,’ she said. “Then neither do I condemn you,” Jesus declared. ‘Go now and leave your life of sin.’"​
Explanation​	These four passages from the Bible discuss the relationship between sin, grace, and the Christian life. In Romans 6:1-4, Paul is addressing the idea that because of God's grace and mercy, Christians might think they can continue to sin without consequences. However, Paul strongly asserts that this is not the case. He explains that believers have died to sin and have been raised to new life in Christ. Being baptized into Christ means being identified with Him in His death and resurrection. Therefore, Christians should no longer live in sin but instead strive to live a new life in Christ. Romans 7:21-25 comes from Paul's personal struggle with sin. He acknowledges the desire to do good, but the presence of sin within him. Paul confesses that he is a slave to God's law in his mind but a prisoner of sin in his sinful nature. He expresses his wretchedness and seeks rescue from his sinful nature. However, he ultimately finds hope and deliverance through Jesus Christ. This passage emphasizes the ongoing battle against sin and the need for God's grace and mercy. 1 John 3:9 states that those who are born of God cannot continue to live in sin. This passage highlights the transformative power of the new birth and the reality that true followers of Christ will produce good fruit and turn away from sin. In John 8:10-11, Jesus encounters a woman caught in adultery. He neither condemns her nor excuses her sin. Instead, He tells her to leave her life of sin. This passage illustrates Jesus' compassionate approach to sin and His call for repentance and transformation. Regarding forgiveness and avoiding a license to sin, these verses teach that God's grace is not an excuse to continue living in sin. Instead, it is a call to live a new life in Christ, transformed by His love and power. Christians are to strive for holiness and obedience, but they are not saved by their own effort or perfection. They are saved by God's grace and mercy, and that same grace empowers them to live a life worthy of their calling.​
Societal Relevance​	Strategies to avoid habitual sins and the trap of excusing sins in the modern world: Pray for the strength and wisdom to recognize and resist temptation. Cultivate healthy relationships that encourage and support your spiritual growth. Seek accountability through small groups, mentors, or spiritual friends. For instance, an alcoholic or drug addict could go to an an Alcoholics’ Anonymous group, or Narcotics Anonymous respectively. Regularly reflect on your thoughts, words, and actions to identify areas of growth and repentance. Practice forgiveness towards others and towards yourself. Surround yourself with positive influences and avoid those that encourage or enable sinful behavior. Memorize and meditate on Scripture that speaks to your specific struggles and provides encouragement and guidance. Live a balanced life, prioritizing physical, emotional, and spiritual health. Seek professional help if necessary, such as counseling or addiction recovery programs. Remember that you are not defined by your struggles or sins, but by God's love and grace. Focus on the transformative power of the Holy Spirit and lean on His strength in your daily life. Cultivate a heart of gratitude and obedience to God, recognizing that your salvation is not based on your own effort but on His grace. For myself, habitual sins can be a struggle. For instance, beating my plantain is my vice. While I have always stayed away from inappropriate visual content, the feeling of jerking off can be very addicting. However, I pray almost every night about this, and try my best not to. Another struggle for me is being quick to judge, and has been since middle school or so. Sometimes, my thinking can be in black and white, without viewing both sides of the argument. Recently though, I have been slowly getting better at more nuanced thinking, but have a long way to go. Jesus will always continue to forgive us, but we must try our best to repent of our sins.

Confessing your sins to one another reading is a corruption from the Vaticanus and Sinaiticus Greek manuscripts (Which are the base texts primarily used for most Critical Text Bibles today). A good Textus Receptus Bible would be a better choice. It should be confess your faults to one another and not sins. Only Catholics confess their sins to men (priests). We confess our sins to Jesus Christ.

 

[The Liturgist]

It seems to me 1 John 1:8 has the effect of refuting Pelagianism.

I would note that not all cults referred to as “Gnostic” believe sin does not exist - rather, those heresies classified as “Gnostic” tend to adhere to a dualist view in which matter is evil (whereas Christian Science denies its existence), and in some heresies of this kind sin is possible, in the form of failure to reject the material world in one way or another, for example, in some of these cults, having children is considered a grave evil. In others, like Mandaeism, which is non-Christian, but widely regarded as the last surviving intact Gnostic religion from antiquity* sins must be cleansed away through ritual purification, specifically the Mandaeans venerate John the Baptist and engage in baptism at least once a week to wash away sins and prepare themselves for union with the “great life.”

The main distinction between these religions and orthodox Christianity is that the Gnostic heresies, whether Christian or attached to another religious “host” (since Gnosticism was a sort of pan-religious heresy that would affix itself primarily to monotheistic religions in a parasitic manner, particularly Manichaeism, which attached itself via Mani’s three wicked disciples who took the names Hermes, Buddha and Thomas in order to spread the religion to followers of the cult of Hermes Trimegistus in Egypt, the Buddhist religion in India and the Far East (it would also syncretize with Taoism), and one who took the name Thomas to the Christians known to Mani, the Persian false prophet who founded it (who himself seemed to be equally focused on converting Zoroastrians and Christians to his new religion through correspondence in which he claimed to be an “Apostle of Jesus Christ” and by composing several religious texts including an illuiminated manuscript, where his skill as a painter greatly helped him).

Naming his “apostle” Thomas was a cynical move: In Persia and the Orient, where Syriac Christianity was predominant, St. Thomas the Apostle was held in high esteem, being the subject of several false Gnostic texts, and having in fact established, with the help of the apostles Addai (possibly Thaddeaus) and Mari (of the Seventy) the churches in Edessa, the Nineveh Plains, Seleucia-Cstesiphon (sometimes called Babylon, the successor to Old Babylon the capital of Nebuchadnezzar, and the predecessor of modern-day Baghdad, due to shifts in the alignment of the Tigris), and the Malabar Coast of India, where he was martyred in Kerala in 53 AD (the church on the site of his martyrdom dates from the first century, albeit with a 16th century facade built by the Portuguese, and is the oldest continually operating Christian place of worship in the world, so far as we are aware).

At any rate, this aspect of Manicheaism, how it parasitically attached itself to existing religions, and when threatened would try to hide itself among members of that religion, reflects the common practice of dissimulation, which was common to most Gnostic sects: with some notable and famous exceptions, the early Gnostics did not value martyrdom in the way the orthodox Christians did, and would actively avoid it by concealing their faith (this became less common among some later Gnostic sects such as the Albigensians).

The dissimulation aspect makes particular sense given that the common soteriology that causes people to classify these various early sects as Gnostic is the idea that one is saved (by Jesus Christ or another messianic figure) from the world of evil matter and liberated as a spirit through secret knowledge, handed down, for instance, from secret teachings of one of the Apostles, such as Thomas, hence the proliferation of psuedepigraphical Gnostic “gospels.” This may well have started as early as the 1st century, although I believe the warning of St. Paul in Galatians 1:8-9 was not specifically written with any proto-Gnostic sect such as that of Simon Magus in mind, but rather was intended to encompass all heretical sects that taught a gospel that differed from the Good News preached by the Apostles.

* That is, aside from certain syncretic religions like Yazidisim and Yarsanism and Alevism that are practiced mainly by Kurds, and in the case of Alevism and Bektasism by some Turks and Albanians, that contain a mix of Christian, Syrian Gnostic, Zoroastrian, Islamic, Kurdish tradition and Oriental influences perhaps via Manichaeism.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

It seems to me 1 John 1:8 has the effect of refuting Pelagianism.

I would note that not all cults referred to as “Gnostic” believe sin does not exist - rather, those heresies classified as “Gnostic” tend to adhere to a dualist view in which matter is evil (whereas Christian Science denies its existence), and in some heresies of this kind sin is possible, in the form of failure to reject the material world in one way or another, for example, in some of these cults, having children is considered a grave evil. In others, like Mandaeism, which is non-Christian, but widely regarded as the last surviving intact Gnostic religion from antiquity* sins must be cleansed away through ritual purification, specifically the Mandaeans venerate John the Baptist and engage in baptism at least once a week to wash away sins and prepare themselves for union with the “great life.”

The main distinction between these religions and orthodox Christianity is that the Gnostic heresies, whether Christian or attached to another religious “host” (since Gnosticism was a sort of pan-religious heresy that would affix itself primarily to monotheistic religions in a parasitic manner, particularly Manichaeism, which attached itself via Mani’s three wicked disciples who took the names Hermes, Buddha and Thomas in order to spread the religion to followers of the cult of Hermes Trimegistus in Egypt, the Buddhist religion in India and the Far East (it would also syncretize with Taoism), and one who took the name Thomas to the Christians known to Mani, the Persian false prophet who founded it (who himself seemed to be equally focused on converting Zoroastrians and Christians to his new religion through correspondence in which he claimed to be an “Apostle of Jesus Christ” and by composing several religious texts including an illuiminated manuscript, where his skill as a painter greatly helped him).

Naming his “apostle” Thomas was a cynical move: In Persia and the Orient, where Syriac Christianity was predominant, St. Thomas the Apostle was held in high esteem, being the subject of several false Gnostic texts, and having in fact established, with the help of the apostles Addai (possibly Thaddeaus) and Mari (of the Seventy) the churches in Edessa, the Nineveh Plains, Seleucia-Cstesiphon (sometimes called Babylon, the successor to Old Babylon the capital of Nebuchadnezzar, and the predecessor of modern-day Baghdad, due to shifts in the alignment of the Tigris), and the Malabar Coast of India, where he was martyred in Kerala in 53 AD (the church on the site of his martyrdom dates from the first century, albeit with a 16th century facade built by the Portuguese, and is the oldest continually operating Christian place of worship in the world, so far as we are aware).

At any rate, this aspect of Manicheaism, how it parasitically attached itself to existing religions, and when threatened would try to hide itself among members of that religion, reflects the common practice of dissimulation, which was common to most Gnostic sects: with some notable and famous exceptions, the early Gnostics did not value martyrdom in the way the orthodox Christians did, and would actively avoid it by concealing their faith (this became less common among some later Gnostic sects such as the Albigensians).

The dissimulation aspect makes particular sense given that the common soteriology that causes people to classify these various early sects as Gnostic is the idea that one is saved (by Jesus Christ or another messianic figure) from the world of evil matter and liberated as a spirit through secret knowledge, handed down, for instance, from secret teachings of one of the Apostles, such as Thomas, hence the proliferation of psuedepigraphical Gnostic “gospels.” This may well have started as early as the 1st century, although I believe the warning of St. Paul in Galatians 1:8-9 was not specifically written with any proto-Gnostic sect such as that of Simon Magus in mind, but rather was intended to encompass all heretical sects that taught a gospel that differed from the Good News preached by the Apostles.

* That is, aside from certain syncretic religions like Yazidisim and Yarsanism and Alevism that are practiced mainly by Kurds, and in the case of Alevism and Bektasism by some Turks and Albanians, that contain a mix of Christian, Syrian Gnostic, Zoroastrian, Islamic, Kurdish tradition and Oriental influences perhaps via Manichaeism.

Many Christians today falsely believe that as a believer, you sin in your flesh but not in your spirit.
It is called: "The Carnal Christian Doctrine" or "Two-Nature Theology."

This belief is a form of gnosticism and Antinomianism.

They mistakenly wield 1 John 1:8, twisting its meaning, as a banner to excuse their sin. Yet, they fail to see that Matthew 13:41-42 stands as a solemn warning, one that may confront them at the Judgment—or afterward—if they refuse to repent.

This "Two-Nature Theology" is easily refuted by reading and believing 2 Corinthians 7:1. We are told to cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

It seems to me 1 John 1:8 has the effect of refuting Pelagianism.

I would note that not all cults referred to as “Gnostic” believe sin does not exist - rather, those heresies classified as “Gnostic” tend to adhere to a dualist view in which matter is evil (whereas Christian Science denies its existence), and in some heresies of this kind sin is possible, in the form of failure to reject the material world in one way or another, for example, in some of these cults, having children is considered a grave evil. In others, like Mandaeism, which is non-Christian, but widely regarded as the last surviving intact Gnostic religion from antiquity* sins must be cleansed away through ritual purification, specifically the Mandaeans venerate John the Baptist and engage in baptism at least once a week to wash away sins and prepare themselves for union with the “great life.”

The main distinction between these religions and orthodox Christianity is that the Gnostic heresies, whether Christian or attached to another religious “host” (since Gnosticism was a sort of pan-religious heresy that would affix itself primarily to monotheistic religions in a parasitic manner, particularly Manichaeism, which attached itself via Mani’s three wicked disciples who took the names Hermes, Buddha and Thomas in order to spread the religion to followers of the cult of Hermes Trimegistus in Egypt, the Buddhist religion in India and the Far East (it would also syncretize with Taoism), and one who took the name Thomas to the Christians known to Mani, the Persian false prophet who founded it (who himself seemed to be equally focused on converting Zoroastrians and Christians to his new religion through correspondence in which he claimed to be an “Apostle of Jesus Christ” and by composing several religious texts including an illuiminated manuscript, where his skill as a painter greatly helped him).

Naming his “apostle” Thomas was a cynical move: In Persia and the Orient, where Syriac Christianity was predominant, St. Thomas the Apostle was held in high esteem, being the subject of several false Gnostic texts, and having in fact established, with the help of the apostles Addai (possibly Thaddeaus) and Mari (of the Seventy) the churches in Edessa, the Nineveh Plains, Seleucia-Cstesiphon (sometimes called Babylon, the successor to Old Babylon the capital of Nebuchadnezzar, and the predecessor of modern-day Baghdad, due to shifts in the alignment of the Tigris), and the Malabar Coast of India, where he was martyred in Kerala in 53 AD (the church on the site of his martyrdom dates from the first century, albeit with a 16th century facade built by the Portuguese, and is the oldest continually operating Christian place of worship in the world, so far as we are aware).

At any rate, this aspect of Manicheaism, how it parasitically attached itself to existing religions, and when threatened would try to hide itself among members of that religion, reflects the common practice of dissimulation, which was common to most Gnostic sects: with some notable and famous exceptions, the early Gnostics did not value martyrdom in the way the orthodox Christians did, and would actively avoid it by concealing their faith (this became less common among some later Gnostic sects such as the Albigensians).

The dissimulation aspect makes particular sense given that the common soteriology that causes people to classify these various early sects as Gnostic is the idea that one is saved (by Jesus Christ or another messianic figure) from the world of evil matter and liberated as a spirit through secret knowledge, handed down, for instance, from secret teachings of one of the Apostles, such as Thomas, hence the proliferation of psuedepigraphical Gnostic “gospels.” This may well have started as early as the 1st century, although I believe the warning of St. Paul in Galatians 1:8-9 was not specifically written with any proto-Gnostic sect such as that of Simon Magus in mind, but rather was intended to encompass all heretical sects that taught a gospel that differed from the Good News preached by the Apostles.

* That is, aside from certain syncretic religions like Yazidisim and Yarsanism and Alevism that are practiced mainly by Kurds, and in the case of Alevism and Bektasism by some Turks and Albanians, that contain a mix of Christian, Syrian Gnostic, Zoroastrian, Islamic, Kurdish tradition and Oriental influences perhaps via Manichaeism.

While Pelagians believe they are born morally pure (Which I do not believe is true because we are all born into the sin of Adam), that does not mean 1 John 1:8 is teaching that we can never be morally pure as believers by Sanctification of the Holy Spirit and the Word of God (Scripture). 1 John 1:8 is a warning to the gnostic who thought sin did not exist or that it was an illusion. While most Christians today think sin exists, they do not think sin exists for them on a spiritual level or in their spirit because Jesus paid for all their future sins. They believe they sin in the flesh but not in their spirit. This is a false teaching that is most dangerous because it turns God's grace into a license to sin. But God's grace teaches us to deny ungodliness and that we should live righteously and godly in this present world. Once, we are born into Christ, are slate is clean from our past sin. But from that point, we have to walk in the light as He is in the light in order for the blood of Jesus Christ to cleanse us from all sin (1 John 1:7). We must confess of our sins to Jesus so as to be forgiven of our sins (1 John 1:9) (1 John 2:1).

 

[fhansen]

They mistakenly wield 1 John 1:8, twisting its meaning, as a banner to excuse their sin

Yes, they need to continue on to 1 John 3 to see if it's all right to persist in sin.

 

[fhansen]

We're forgiven of sin and now we're to follow Jesus in the righteousness, in the love, that He showed to us, and that He gives us. We must return that love.

"For if you forgive other people when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. But if you do not forgive others their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins." Matt 6:14-15

 

[The Liturgist]

While Pelagians believe they are born morally pure (Which I do not believe is true because we are all born into the sin of Adam), that does not mean 1 John 1:8 is teaching that we can never be morally pure as believers by Sanctification of the Holy Spirit and the Word of God (Scripture).

I never said that 1 John 1:8 teaches that we can never be morally pure. The Orthodox believe in Theosis: that through our salvation, we become by grace what Christ is by nature, or as St. Athanasius put it, “God became man so that man could become God.” (St. Athanasius is very important to the history of the Christian faith because of the key role he played defending the doctrine of the Trinity at the Council of Nicaea).

Rather, what I am saying is that a great many Gnostics, probably most, believed in sin, its just that they disagreed with orthodox Christians on what was sinful and what the origin of sin and evil was, and believed that through secret knowledge we could escape from this world of sin and evil and access a pure spiritual realm of goodness, often called the Pleroma in Greek, or the Kingdom of Light, et cetera.

Christian Science differs from Gnosticism in that it posits that the material world is an illusion, and that we can influence the material world, in which respect it is related to a larger family of occult movements known as New Thought.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I never said that 1 John 1:8 teaches that we can never be morally pure. The Orthodox believe in Theosis: that through our salvation, we become by grace what Christ is by nature, or as St. Athanasius put it, “God became man so that man could become God.” (St. Athanasius is very important to the history of the Christian faith because of the key role he played defending the doctrine of the Trinity at the Council of Nicaea).

Rather, what I am saying is that a great many Gnostics, probably most, believed in sin, its just that they disagreed with orthodox Christians on what was sinful and what the origin of sin and evil was, and believed that through secret knowledge we could escape from this world of sin and evil and access a pure spiritual realm of goodness, often called the Pleroma in Greek, or the Kingdom of Light, et cetera.

Christian Science differs from Gnosticism in that it posits that the material world is an illusion, and that we can influence the material world, in which respect it is related to a larger family of occult movements known as New Thought.

Christian Science and the Material World:​

• Illusion of Matter: Christian Science, founded by Mary Baker Eddy, posits that the material world is an illusion and that only God (defined as infinite Spirit) and spiritual reality are real. This aligns with the idea that matter is not ultimately real, but it departs from Gnosticism's more dualistic worldview.

Gnosticism and the Material World:​

• Material World as Evil: Gnosticism generally regards the material world as inherently flawed or evil, created by a lesser or malevolent deity (the Demiurge). This contrasts with Christian Science's view that matter is illusory and that God's creation is entirely good, leaving no room for an inherently flawed material reality.

Christian Science and 1 John 1:8​

• Denial of Sin's Reality: Christian Science interprets sin as a false belief rather than an actual state of being. According to Mary Baker Eddy, sin, like matter, is an illusion stemming from ignorance of God and spiritual truth. Christian Science would argue that sin is a misunderstanding of the divine perfection of God's creation.

Gnosticism and 1 John 1:8​

• Sin as Ignorance: In many strands of Gnosticism, sin is often understood not as moral failure in a biblical sense but as ignorance of spiritual truth. This ignorance traps individuals in the material world, which Gnostics view as inherently flawed or evil.

Both Christian Science and Gnosticism view sin fundamentally as a failure to understand or grasp proper spiritual truth, but they differ in their underlying frameworks and implications.

 

[The Liturgist]

Christian Science and the Material World:​

• Illusion of Matter: Christian Science, founded by Mary Baker Eddy, posits that the material world is an illusion and that only God (defined as infinite Spirit) and spiritual reality are real. This aligns with the idea that matter is not ultimately real, but it departs from Gnosticism's more dualistic worldview.

Gnosticism and the Material World:​

• Material World as Evil: Gnosticism generally regards the material world as inherently flawed or evil, created by a lesser or malevolent deity (the Demiurge). This contrasts with Christian Science's view that matter is illusory and that God's creation is entirely good, leaving no room for an inherently flawed material reality.

Christian Science and 1 John 1:8​

• Denial of Sin's Reality: Christian Science interprets sin as a false belief rather than an actual state of being. According to Mary Baker Eddy, sin, like matter, is an illusion stemming from ignorance of God and spiritual truth. Christian Science would argue that sin is a misunderstanding of the divine perfection of God's creation.

Gnosticism and 1 John 1:8​

• Sin as Ignorance: In many strands of Gnosticism, sin is often understood not as moral failure in a biblical sense but as ignorance of spiritual truth. This ignorance traps individuals in the material world, which Gnostics view as inherently flawed or evil.

Both Christian Science and Gnosticism view sin fundamentally as a failure to understand or grasp proper spiritual truth, but they differ in their underlying frameworks and implications.

Yes, indeed, that’s basically what I said, albeit with more nuance. Also, I did not use an AI to write my post - did you? The reason I ask is the typographic style with singular bullet points is favored by several large language models.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Yes, indeed, that’s basically what I said, albeit with more nuance. Also, I did not use an AI to write my post - did you? The reason I ask is the typographic style with singular bullet points is favored by several large language models.

Yes, I did. It is the way nowadays to double check or ensure that you are not getting something wrong.
Granted, there are times AI does not get some things right.
So you do have to check those sources and still do your own homework (as I am sure you know).
I don't always use AI in my posts. Many times I am happy with what I write.

I use Perplexity.ai for searches on more recent news or products.
I use ChatGPT for Greek word studies, and exploring the Bible more in-depth on certain topics.
I use ChatGPT for Bible history, and to get general theological terms, etcetera.
ChatGPT is not always good at gaining recent information that just came out, but I do find it more handful in my Biblical studies.

Sometimes AI is just great when you don't have time to put in the effort in crafting a well developed response by doing all the homework yourself that may take hours; Especially when it is a topic that you do not want to invest too much time into.

But I have come up with studies (biblical studies) that ChatGPT or other AI software has not figured out yet.
So AI is still behind when it comes to the Bible at times.

In fact, AI also does not know the difference when a Greek dictionary is wrong sometimes.
For example, I believe after Westcott and Hort movement, the Modern scholars of this movement started to redefine the meaning on certain Greek words so as to favor the Critical Text and in opposition to the Bible that was established for hundreds of years.
AI is not smart enough as a software to figure out the nuances of such things yet.

However, there is no doubt AI has made knowledge to increase in these last days.

Daniel 12:4 says,
"But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased."

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I never said that 1 John 1:8 teaches that we can never be morally pure. The Orthodox believe in Theosis: that through our salvation, we become by grace what Christ is by nature, or as St. Athanasius put it, “God became man so that man could become God.” (St. Athanasius is very important to the history of the Christian faith because of the key role he played defending the doctrine of the Trinity at the Council of Nicaea).

Rather, what I am saying is that a great many Gnostics, probably most, believed in sin, its just that they disagreed with orthodox Christians on what was sinful and what the origin of sin and evil was, and believed that through secret knowledge we could escape from this world of sin and evil and access a pure spiritual realm of goodness, often called the Pleroma in Greek, or the Kingdom of Light, et cetera.

Christian Science differs from Gnosticism in that it posits that the material world is an illusion, and that we can influence the material world, in which respect it is related to a larger family of occult movements known as New Thought.

What is your view of 1 John 1:8?
What do you believe it is saying?

Most Christians I have run into believe it is some kind of justification to sin in some way.
I believe it is warning to those who deny sin's existence on some level.
Many believe in "The Carnal Christian Doctrine" or "Two-Nature Theology."
Again, this means as believers, they can sin their flesh or physical body, but they cannot sin in their spirit.
They falsely believe Jesus paid for all their future sin and so when they sin again, it does not exist spiritually.
So this is a partial denial of sin's existence. So 1 John 1:8 would be a warning to them not to think this way.