"Forever" as an idiom for "for life" or "for his whole life"

[david shelby]

I'm talking about the final clause "his throne will be established forever."

1 Chronicles 17:10-14 NIV2011

“‘I declare to you that the Lord will build a house for you: 11 When your days are over and you go to be with your ancestors, I will raise up your offspring to succeed you, one of your own sons, and I will establish his kingdom. 12 He is the one who will build a house for me, and I will establish his throne forever. 13 I will be his father, and he will be my son. I will never take my love away from him, as I took it away from your predecessor. 14 I will set him over my house and my kingdom forever; his throne will be established forever.’”

This is clearly talking specifically about Solomon. "One of your own sons" not a descendant a long time later. "He is the one who will build a house for me," i.e. Solomon who built the temple. There is absolutely no way this could be about anyone else. But sometimes this passage is said by people to be about Jesus, due to that last clause "his throne will be established forever." Clearly Solomon is not reigning forever. Yet everything else is so obviously about Solomon, that it's made me realize that sometimes "forever" is an idiom for "for his whole life." I.e. Solomon never lost the kingdom; he reigned his whole life. His throne was established "forever," i.e. for as long as he lived.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

I recall this being prophetic of Jesus.

 

[david shelby]

I recall this being prophetic of Jesus.

But its objectively impossible. It literally is saying "when you die, one of your sons will become king and build the temple, and I will establish his throne ad olam."

If the translators had not goofed and rendered "ad olam" as "forever" in a context where it only means "for life" then nobody would have ever mistaken this as being about anyone but Solomon.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

But its objectively impossible. It literally is saying "when you die, one of your sons will become king and build the temple, and I will establish his throne ad olam."

If the translators had not goofed and rendered "ad olam" as "forever" in a context where it only means "for life" then nobody would have ever mistaken this as being about anyone but Solomon.

Not necessarily, God said he would make Abraham a nation ... that didn't happen. But God did make a holy nation of that "seed"

 

[Gregory Thompson]

13 These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.

Hebrews 11 covers a lot of instances like this in one chapter.

 

[Jonaitis]

I agree, it refers to Solomon, but it also applies to Christ. You will find this sort of usage of Scripture from the apostles, they will reveal the Christiological interpretation of certain passages that most people did not see before. Hebrews uses this passage to refer to Christ, because that is its true scope, although by surface reading and in context it refers to Solomon.

In the book of Hebrews, specifically chapter 4, he uses the statement "they shall not enter my rest" to refer to eternal life in the kingdom of God, when he obviously is referencing that quote from the Old Testament where God promised this threat against the first generation of the Israelites in the wilderness. He applies it to the Church. There are times Scripture is direct about Christ, and others when it is typological, and then yet others when it is both.

 

[Jonaitis]

Here is a passage:

"Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his wife, and they shall become one flesh." - Genesis 2:24

What is this referring to? Marriage. But...this is what Paul says about it:

"This mystery is profound, and I am saying that it refers to Christ and the church." - Ephesians 5:32

He just used the passage about marriage to refer to the union of believer to Christ as "one flesh." This was the passage in Genesis' true scope, something that you may have not realized at the first time you read it. There are literally so many all over the Old Testament, it is very profound.

The creation of Eve, from Adam's rib while he was asleep, is an illustration of Christ' death and the church. This is way too ingenious for some mere man to contrive.

 

[Jonaitis]

...and finally, this opens the door (with carefulness) to seeing Christ be unfolded in the Psalms. David's experiences are often depictions of Christ, who is the true scope of the Psalms. Psalm 22 is one of the most understood, but have you ever looked at Psalm 89 with a Christiological view? Profound.

Revelation, yes you heard me, uses this sort of language. Who does Babylon represent? We are like in exile, in a foreign land, but will one day return to what was lost in disobedience, the land flowing with milk and honey. Many have understood Babylon to be this present world, and Canaan to be heaven.

 

[Jonaitis]

Sorry, one more thing, you forgot this verse in 1 Samuel 7 (you quoted 1 Chronicles 17) that talk about this Davidic Covenant, this is what David said after God promised him these blessings:

"O, Lord God, you have spoken also of your servant's house for a great while to come, and this is instruction for mankind, O Lord God!" (v. 19)

Well, perhaps this helps bring out Christ in those verses that you seem to be confused about.

 

[Jonaitis]

I'm sorry again!!

To the OP: YES, "forever" is idiomatic often in Scripture that can mean the same as perpetual or a long time. I'm sorry for getting off the topic a little.

We read that Abraham's covenant is "forever," and that the Levitical priesthood is "forever," and other things spoken to Israel about the perpetual nature of some sort of promise or command that of course had an end. I agree with you, this "forever" is an idiom if we take the passage in a literal sense in the context. David's throne, the way he was set up in the Old Testament, is not occupied by Christ, otherwise he would be in the physical Jerusalem, sitting on a physical throne, physically governing the twelve tribes. Dispensationalists have tried to argue that the so-called coming Millennium will address that, but there is way too many theological problems with that. If Christ is the "king of the Jews" in the Old Covenant sense, he should be dispensing the Law of Moses on his Jewish subjects. No, he is "king of the Jews" in the New Covenant, in a new way, of an entirely different kind of kingdom. His kingdom is of heaven, not earth. His kingdom is spiritual, not carnal. His kingdom is built on the New Covenant, not a continuation of the old. The "Jews" he is king over is believers, we are the true Jew and the true Israel he reigns over.

Now, forever can also mean literally forever, depending on the context.

I don't think "idiom" is the right word, by the way, but it is something else I can't think of.

 

[GreekOrthodox]

The Septuagint uses καὶ ὁ θρόνος αὐτοῦ ἔσται ἀνωρθωμένος ἕως αἰῶνος (forever).