"Forcing a Teenager to have an Abortion"

[Mylinkay Asdara]

Abortion Statistics - Demographics

• Age - The majority of women getting an abortion are young. 55% are less than 26 years old and 21% are teenagers. The abortion rate is highest for those women aged 18 to 19 (56 per 1,000 in 1992.)
• Marriage - 51% of women who are unmarried when they become pregnant will receive an abortion. Unmarried women are 6 times more likely than married women to have an abortion.

88% of abortions occur during the first 6 to 12 weeks of pregnancy

From the site you cited as well.

 

[Ampmonster]

while these, totaling 91.80% are all matters of CONVIENIENCE ONLY
"
25.5% of women deciding to have an abortion want to postpone childbearing
21.3% of women cannot afford a baby<
14.1% of women have a relationship issue or their partner does not want a child
12.2% of women are too young (their parents or others object to the pregnancy)
10.8% of women feel a child will disrupt their education or career
7.9% of women want no (more) children

 

[Ampmonster]

"88% of abortions occur during the first 6 to 12 weeks of pregnancy "

so i ask at what point,...week wise, does God put the Babies soul in...do you know? i don't.

 

[Mylinkay Asdara]

I have beliefs about when a soul is assigned or chooses to enter a baby, but they won't be valid in your eyes so I'm reluctant to share them and have them ridiculed.

 

[Ikaria]

while these, totaling 91.80% are all matters of CONVIENIENCE ONLY
"
25.5% of women deciding to have an abortion want to postpone childbearing
21.3% of women cannot afford a baby<
14.1% of women have a relationship issue or their partner does not want a child
12.2% of women are too young (their parents or others object to the pregnancy)
10.8% of women feel a child will disrupt their education or career
7.9% of women want no (more) children

You must be kidding.

Not being able to afford a baby is a serious issue. That's not mere "convenience", it's common sense.

Having a relationship issue and/or having a partner who objects to the child is is ALSO a serious issue. That's not mere "convenience", it's common sense.

Being too young and having your parents object to your having a child is ALSO a serious issue. That's not mere "convenience", it's common sense (and obedience to your parents in some cases.)

What the statistics show, in fact, is that many of these women are constrained by circumstances and would probably choose to have a child if their situation was different. Once the voice of reason enters the debate, you lose 47.6 of your supporting stats.

I'm just astounded at the way you deliberately misrepresented the evidence. It's scary. Like 1984, or something.

 

[Ampmonster]

if you have a legit answer to that question i wont ridicule it....cmon weve talked before.
seriously



...i bought my GF an engagement ring last night, isnt that crazy?

 

[Ampmonster]

its convience BECAUSE if you couldnt afford or didnt want it in the first place you shouldnt have been doing it in the first place!

again we're dealing with reality here.

 

[Ampmonster]

"Like 1984"
lol Again with the fiction.

...no sex = no abortions.

 

[Ikaria]

its convience BECAUSE if you couldnt afford or didnt want it in the first place you shouldnt have been doing it in the first place!

Oh please! That's such an incredible reach!

again we're dealing with reality here.

Yep - and the reality is that people make mistakes. Having unprotected sex (for example) doesn't mean you want a kid. Sure, it's stupid, but it doesn't mean that any abortion you have as a result is necessarily performed for the sake of convenience. Duh.

Anyways, sometimes women even get pregnant despite taking precautions. Heck, I've known two friends who got pregnant even after having their tubes tied.

 

[Ikaria]

"Like 1984"
lol Again with the fiction.

The only fiction here is yours. Snide remarks are no substitute for an argument.

...no sex = no abortions.

Duh. But unfortunately, life's just not that simple.

What was that you were saying about reality before...?

 

[msjones21]

Starving and feeling pain are two different things.

All of these contradictions astound me. So in other words, it's okay to terminate a pregnancy because the baby, I mean fetus, can't feel pain but if they can feel hunger it's still okay? Are hunger and pain and fear not all extensions of signals triggered by the HUMAN brain?? If so, then what separates a "fetus" who has a few human-like qualities and a newborn baby who cries out in pain when the nurses stick them in the foot to draw blood? There are some people who are born void of nerve endings and are incapable of feeling physical pain. Should we be able to kill them off because they bother us or interfere with our goal to climb the corporate ladder? You may say "well, comparing a fetus to a grown person is ridiculous". Well, now you know how asinine it is to compare a growing, living baby with not having sex.

You must be kidding.

Not being able to afford a baby is a serious issue. That's not mere "convenience", it's common sense.

Actually, common sense is not going out and having sex when you know you can't afford a child. Besides, why can't you afford a child? Because you want a better house, a better car? Plus, in order for a woman not to be able to at least be able to afford to carry a pregnancy to full-term and then give the baby up for adoption, she must be in dire financial straits. Medicaid is available to all women who need medical assistance. My co-worker's wife was on Medicaid and they didn't pay one red cent for prenatal care or the delivery. There are alternatives to abortion. Most people are just too lazy to put up with a pregnancy for nine months to consider the alternatives.

Having a relationship issue and/or having a partner who objects to the child is is ALSO a serious issue. That's not mere "convenience", it's common sense.

Here again, wouldn't common sense dictate that before you share the most sacred aspect of your life that you would discuss what you would do in the event of an unplanned pregnancy? See, that's the issue. It's not about relationship conundrums and "oops! I'm pregnant and I don't know what to do". If people would either A) Wait to get married to have sex or B) At least wait to have sex until they have both determined how they would deal with the situation then it wouldn't be an issue.

Being too young and having your parents object to your having a child is ALSO a serious issue. That's not mere "convenience", it's common sense (and obedience to your parents in some cases.)

It amazes me most of you think it's 100% acceptable for parents to force their teenager to abort and yet if this article were about them forcing her to carry the pregnancy to full-term you'd be raising Cain.

What the statistics show, in fact, is that many of these women are constrained by circumstances and would probably choose to have a child if their situation was different.

They're not constrained by anything. If a woman is single and doesn't want kids or she can't afford to live in a fancy apartment if she were to get pregnant then she shouldn't be going out and having sex and men should be more willing to step up to the plate when the woman they've had sex with becomes pregnant. It's an equal partnership. Bottom line....not everyone can afford to raise a child, but there are programs out there to make provision for pregnant women if they need prenatal care. So, in cases like the 91% listed above, there is always an alternative to killing. If the woman chooses not to utilize those alternatives then it is no longer a circumstantial constraint, it's selfishness that motivates her to have an abortion simply for convenience sake.

 

[Mylinkay Asdara]

I'm happy on your hopefully future engagement What an awesome Christmas present! (<grumble> wish my boyfriend would commit like that - )

Anyway, since I believe in re-incarnation and am a pagan my beliefs go something like this (keeping it very basic so as not to end up 'promoting'):
Souls are entities that we truely are. Our personalities here on earth are only reflections of our souls and are shaped by other things (the events of our lives, genetics, and so on) The actual 'soul personality' of a person very rarely shines forth because it is covered with so much of the human personality. Souls, in my faith, are part of the decision making process when it comes to what lives they will live so that they may learn the lessons through human life that will enrich them to the point of enlightenment and further oneness with Deity.

In short (because I'm wrapping presents) the soul commits to the body when the brain stem is sufficiently developed to facilitate self awareness.

 

[msjones21]

Yep - and the reality is that people make mistakes. Having unprotected sex (for example) doesn't mean you want a kid. Sure, it's stupid, but it doesn't mean that any abortion you have as a result is necessarily performed for the sake of convenience. Duh.

Isn't killing your baby to cover up you "mistake" strictly for convenience sake? If you think it's too "inconvenient" to use protection or it's too "inconvenient" to say "no" to having sex with your new boyfriend then it also must be too "inconvenient" to be pregnant rendering abortion a selfish alternative to owning up to your "mistake".

Sheesh, Stevie Wonder could see that.

 

[msjones21]

Duh. But unfortunately, life's just not that simple.

Duh? Are we in third grade here? Come on, let's be mature.

Anyway, it *is* that simple. If you can't control your hormones to 100% eliminate any possibility of becoming pregnant that *you* are the one with the problem, not the people who oppose abortion. It is that simple. It's called opening your mouth and saying "no".

 

[Ikaria]

Isn't killing your baby to cover up you "mistake" strictly for convenience sake?

Excuse me? I didn't see anything in those statistics which said that the motivation was to cover up a mistake.

If you think it's too "inconvenient" to use protection or it's too "inconvenient" to say "no" to having sex with your new boyfriend then it also must be too "inconvenient" to be pregnant rendering abortion a selfish alternative to owning up to your "mistake".

Sorry, too many "if" statements to be credible.

 

[Ikaria]

Duh? Are we in third grade here? Come on, let's be mature.

I was, but you lowered the tone of the debate so quickly that a good oldfashioned "Duh" was the only legitimate response I could offer.

Anyway, it *is* that simple.

Sorry, it's not.

Yes, the argument relating to the pre-pregnancy state is simple enough. But that's not what I'm discussing. I'm discussing the messy reality of the post-pregnancy situation.

If you can't control your hormones to 100% eliminate any possibility of becoming pregnant that *you* are the one with the problem, not the people who oppose abortion.

I agree that the people who can't control their hormones sufficiently well are indeed the problem.

But no, it's still not that simple because you're simply refusing to address the results of that unwanted pregnancy in the context of extenuating circumstances - such as living below the poverty line, for example.

And in case you were wondering, I'm anti-abortion.

 

[msjones21]

Excuse me? I didn't see anything in those statistics which said that the motivation was to cover up a mistake.

You clearly stated that people make mistakes and that, while having unprotected sex is "stupid", having an abortion isn't for convenience sake. Let's think this through now...you *oops* have unprotected sex. That's the mistake. You become pregnant. That's the result of your mistake. At this point there is the easy way (abortion) or facing the world pregnant and all and either giving the child up for adoption or raising the child yourself. Now, common sense should tell you that abortion is a way of covering up the mistake you've made. Maybe the woman is embarassed. Maybe she doesn't want to be "put out". Wouldn't abortion be a way of eliminating those little set-backs? Convenience sake.

Sorry, too many "if" statements to be credible.

*coughs* I'm sorry but, was it not you who made the comment that ad hominems and straw men do nothing but discredit someone? I guess if that's the case neither one of us are trying very hard to make a valid point; therefore, I have no choice but to think either my point made far too much sense for you and you have absolutely no way of refuting it, or you really do have it stuck in your head that abortion is 100% acceptable in all cases.

 

[msjones21]

I was, but you lowered the tone of the debate so quickly that a good oldfashioned "Duh" was the only legitimate response I could offer.

Ah...well, had your "duh"s been directed at me initially that statement *may* have hurt my feelings.

I agree that the people who can't control their hormones sufficiently well are indeed the problem.

But no, it's still not that simple because you're simply refusing to address the results of that unwanted pregnancy in the context of extenuating circumstances - such as living below the poverty line, for example.

Poverty is really the only potentially good reason to have an abortion. It's just a real shame for the "cause" that there is funding out there for women who live below the poverty line.

And in case you were wondering, I'm anti-abortion.

Either you're limited in your scope of what "anti-abortion" truly means or you're having fun playing Devil's advocate.

 

[Ikaria]

Actually, common sense is not going out and having sex when you know you can't afford a child. Besides, why can't you afford a child? Because you want a better house, a better car? Plus, in order for a woman not to be able to at least be able to afford to carry a pregnancy to full-term and then give the baby up for adoption, she must be in dire financial straits.

- snip -

I think you'll find that most of us agree with this. I certainly do, anyways. But you're still missing the point, which is "What happens after the event?"

It's no good talking about it as if by talking about it we can stop it happening or pretend that it doesn't. That won't solve anything. It's just a cheap way to avoid tackling the difficult issues.

It amazes me most of you think it's 100% acceptable for parents to force their teenager to abort and yet if this article were about them forcing her to carry the pregnancy to full-term you'd be raising Cain.

They're not constrained by anything.

Yes they are. For example, some girls are still too small to be having kids at 14 or 15. Some of them will need a cesarean section in order to get the kid out alive - and some of them will even have serious medical problems with that.

If a woman is single and doesn't want kids or she can't afford to live in a fancy apartment if she were to get pregnant then she shouldn't be going out and having sex and men should be more willing to step up to the plate when the woman they've had sex with becomes pregnant. It's an equal partnership.

Duh. But your "fancy apartment" sceneario is purely fanciful. In fact, it's so far removed from the type of situation we're talking about here, that it may as well be classified as a straw man.

Bottom line....not everyone can afford to raise a child, but there are programs out there to make provision for pregnant women if they need prenatal care.

...and sometimes that's just not enough.

So, in cases like the 91% listed above, there is always an alternative to killing.

Strictly speaking, this is true. But some people would baulk at filling up the orphanages with yet another unwanted child which will most likely end up with a dysfunctional life in a foster family.

And even getting as far as a foster family could take years.

If the woman chooses not to utilize those alternatives then it is no longer a circumstantial constraint, it's selfishness that motivates her to have an abortion simply for convenience sake.

OK, I've reluctantly concluded that you don't actually live in the real world.

 

[Ikaria]

You clearly stated that people make mistakes and that, while having unprotected sex is "stupid", having an abortion isn't for convenience sake. Let's think this through now...you *oops* have unprotected sex. That's the mistake. You become pregnant. That's the result of your mistake. At this point there is the easy way (abortion) or facing the world pregnant and all and either giving the child up for adoption or raising the child yourself. Now, common sense should tell you that abortion is a way of covering up the mistake you've made. Maybe the woman is embarassed. Maybe she doesn't want to be "put out". Wouldn't abortion be a way of eliminating those little set-backs? Convenience sake.


*coughs* I'm sorry but, was it not you who made the comment that ad hominems and straw men do nothing but discredit someone? I guess if that's the case neither one of us are trying very hard to make a valid point; therefore, I have no choice but to think either my point made far too much sense for you and you have absolutely no way of refuting it, or you really do have it stuck in your head that abortion is 100% acceptable in all cases.

Straw man.

Come back when you've read my argument and can represent it properly.

Hint: you may have to read it carefully this time.