For Your Information - Hunt Exposes Calvinism

[Hammster]

Read but not understood despite the colors.

It is what happens when one tries to build a theology with hunt and peck scripture reading. You can get the bible to say just about anything. That's why I am amazed when people criticize Calvinism for being systematic. It shows how one thing builds upon another, and how they are all related and linked together. The other views, I have seen and demonstrated in various threads, as have others, all work when taken bit by bit, but have no substance as a whole.

 

[Benefactor]

CURED

 

[Benefactor]

It is what happens when one tries to build a theology with hunt and peck scripture reading. You can get the bible to say just about anything. That's why I am amazed when people criticize Calvinism for being systematic. It shows how one thing builds upon another, and how they are all related and linked together. The other views, I have seen and demonstrated in various threads, as have others, all work when taken bit by bit, but have no substance as a whole.

In your words with the opposit is held by those of us who are OASA or Arminain. It works both ways.

It is what happens when one tries to build a theology with

calvin

and peck scripture reading. You can get the bible to say just about anything. That's why I am amazed when people criticize

Hunt

for being systematic. It shows how one thing builds upon another, and how they are all related and linked together. The other views, I have seen and demonstrated in various threads, as have others, all work when taken bit by bit, but have no substance as a whole.

 

[Charis kai Dunamis]

In your words with the opposit is held by those of us who are OASA or Arminain. It works both ways.

calvin Hunt

Are you kidding? I watched every one of those videos you posted, and whether I agree with him or not, I would hardly call him "systematic". All he does is "refute" particular ideas in an unorganized fashion. There is no system there.

 

[drstevej]

Benefactor, Dave Hunt has not exposed Calvinism. Just another topic to keep him in print.

BTW OSAS Arminian is a contradiction in Terms. Neither Arminius nor the Remonstrants held this view. Arminius held election based upon foreseen faith and perseverance, the Remonstrants were unsure about the issue of perseverance.

OSAS Arminian is a contradiction as much as is a virgin who has one night stands.

 

[Ormly]

Benefactor, Dave Hunt has not exposed Calvinism. Just another topic to keep him in print.

BTW OSAS Arminian is a contradiction in Terms. Neither Arminius nor the Remonstrants held this view. Arminius held election based upon foreseen faith and perseverance, the Remonstrants were unsure about the issue of perseverance.

OSAS Arminian is a contradiction as much as is a virgin who has one night stands.

Why, when foreseeing precedes predestination?

 

[Charis kai Dunamis]

Why, when foreseeing precedes predestination?

The term "foreseeing" would assume chronology, no?

 

[Benefactor]

Why, when foreseeing precedes predestination?

They are not compatible, yet they co-exist in the sense that what God thinks He knows He is going to think it before He does. It is impossible to think, conceive, plan apart form ability to do so and that is why the Absolute Knowledge of God supports the OASA and Arminian construct against the Calvinist one. There has never been time when His absolute Knowledge was not absolute. Was there ever at time when his plan preceded His Absolute Knowledge? If you say yes you trap yourself in suggesting that God at that moment did not have Absolute Knowledge. Also, because a plan is does not mean a plan cannot be different from the construct of your thinking. In the mind of God a concept of a plan and all the plan’s intricacies are already know, with all necessary modification for whatever reason etc., that is in keeping with His Holiness. Therefore to have a plan that allows for freedom within the limited boundaries is not impossible but the only construct that protects the holiness of God and does not violate His sovereignty. God can not violate his Holiness for if He did He would cease to be God.

When we place human logic into the eternal now of God it does not work. All the so called logical construction to eliminate the Absolute Knowledge of God is self defeating. If God did not have absolute knowledge he could not have a plan, or conceived a plan. A plan is the outcome of his Absolute Knowledge and no real or possible variable of any plan that God could conceive does not of itself already involve the Absolute Knowledge of all the real and possible outcomes. This is the fundamental flaw those of us who are not Calvinist know and see in RT / Calvinist interpretation of Scripture

 

[Benefactor]

Are you kidding? I watched every one of those videos you posted, and whether I agree with him or not, I would hardly call him "systematic". All he does is "refute" particular ideas in an unorganized fashion. There is no system there.

It is OK to have an opinion. We see things differently.

 

[CmRoddy]

It is OK to have an opinion. We see things differently.

It isn't an opinion when there are facts to be looked at, Bene...

 

[Charis kai Dunamis]

It is OK to have an opinion. We see things differently.

No, we see the same things. We have different opinions about those same things. We have differing opinions about yes or no questions, which necessarily means one person is right and one person is wrong.

Comparing Hunt to Calvin is just a complete mismatch. I wonder if you have even ever read the institutes? Or Luther's "Bondage of the Will"? Or any other reformed work? Have you ever read through a true Systematic Theology, say, a 4 volume set? How about an abridged version?

 

[Ormly]

No, we see the same things. We have different opinions about those same things. We have differing opinions about yes or no questions, which necessarily means one person is right and one person is wrong.

Comparing Hunt to Calvin is just a complete mismatch. I wonder if you have even ever read the institutes? Or Luther's "Bondage of the Will"? Or any other reformed work? Have you ever read through a true Systematic Theology, say, a 4 volume set? How about an abridged version?

Do you know they were both Jew haters? Why place your eggs in their basket? If they were wrong about the Jews, what else might they be wrong about? No one had all the truth revealed to them then and none do now.

 

[CmRoddy]

Do you know they were both Jew haters? Why place your eggs in their basket? If they were wrong about the Jews, what else might they be wrong about? No one had all the truth revealed to them then and none do now.

First of all, Red Herring.

Second of all, Non Sequitar.

Thirdly, Genetic Fallacy.

Wow... why am I not surprised? Next thing you know Ormly is going to be bringing up the Servetus incident...

 

[Charis kai Dunamis]

Do you know they were both Jew haters? Why place your eggs in their basket? If they were wrong about the Jews, what else might they be wrong about? No one had all the truth revealed to them then and none do now.

So are you advocating a "trust no one" attitude? Not even the things they're right about?

If this is the case then why are you on here, giving your opinion? Why should others listen to you? Why should anyone listen to me? What is the point of communication and community, which makes up the way we work as a church, sharing the Gospel with others? I'm sure you're a sinner, just like they were, maybe even in "worse" ways. So am I. Does that invalidate the truth that has been revealed to you or I? No. Truth is truth.

So what about them?

 

[nobdysfool]

Hmmm....it seems that it makes a difference who one villifies....some are fair game, while others are not....interesting concept...or as Spock would say, "Fascinating".....

If the truth of what we believes depends on our own personal holiness, then there is no recognizable truth, at least not among men.....

 

[MamaZ]

Gods foreknowledge of us is just that. Scripture does not state that He foreknew our actions..

 

[CmRoddy]

Gods foreknowledge of us is just that. Scripture does not state that He foreknew our actions..

Exactly. But despite the fact that God always foreknows persons, the Arminian and anti-Calvinist will make that mean foreknow actions...

 

[Ormly]

So are you advocating a "trust no one" attitude? Not even the things they're right about?

Can it not cast aspersions upon what you believe they are right about? Or does not their dispositions count for anything. BTW, I use the same yardstick with everyone I read.

If this is the case then why are you on here, giving your opinion? Why should others listen to you? Why should anyone listen to me? What is the point of communication and community, which makes up the way we work as a church, sharing the Gospel with others?

By all means share the gospel with me. I always enjoy listening to one expound on the word of the Lord. Just leave the commentary out of it unless you credit it properly. You see, I would rather read your opinion of what the Bible says and a parroted opinion of it. That way we can truly share.

I'm sure you're a sinner,

I was a sinner, now I am a saint, learning to be faithful in Christ.

So am I.

Sorry to read that from you. Do you consider yourself born again?

Does that invalidate the truth that has been revealed to you or I? No. Truth is truth.

So what about them?

First you must define what the truth is from them, wouldn't you say?

Wouldn't you also say that creditability plays apart in your acceptance of any teacher you take to yourself? Even me! You have no bio of me however, read the Bio's of some of these fellows who are called "church fathers". Frightening! Then ask yourself the question: How is that today's church is in such disarray except they have been accepted without question but by some God appointed profound adjustment to the church that won't buy them .02 in His economy, if they themselves are not found faithful. Finney turned the world upside down for God and yet the finality of it all, is now in question. Place your trust in no man. I have lived long enough in the Lord to know that to be true.

Here:

"Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you. All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you." John 16:13-15 (KJV)

and again:

". . . in that day ye shall ask me nothing. Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall ask the Father in my name, he will give it you."
John 16:23 (KJV)

That is for us, our privilege in Christ Jesus.. Are we truly born again that we enter into it?

 

[MamaZ]

Is Hunt not part of the Plymouth Brethren?

 

[Charis kai Dunamis]

Can it not cast aspersions upon what you believe they are right about? Or does not their dispositions count for anything. BTW, I use the same yardstick with everyone I read.

But you are simply throwing the baby out with the bath water, not caring whether what they taught was actually truth. To point to their anti-semitism as a reason to discount everything they taught makes no sense whatsoever.

I was a sinner, now I am a saint, learning to be faithful in Christ.

Sorry to read that from you. Do you consider yourself born again?

You treat my words like a 5th grader. You know what I mean. Positionally we stand without sin before God. Practically we still sin daily, unless you're telling me that you are completely free from committing sin?

First you must define what the truth is from them, wouldn't you say?

This is true. And I would say Calvin and Luther's teachings on Soteriology, including depravity, election, atonement, grace, perseverance, etc. are truth.

Wouldn't you also say that creditability plays apart in your acceptance of any teacher you take to yourself? Even me! You have no bio of me however, read the Bio's of some of these fellows who are called "church fathers". Frightening! Then ask yourself the question: How is that today's church is in such disarray except they have been accepted without question but by some God appointed profound adjustment to the church that won't buy them .02 in His economy, if they themselves are not found faithful. Finney turned the world upside down for God and yet the finality of it all, is now in question. Place your trust in no man. I have lived long enough in the Lord to know that to be true.

I don't place my trust in any man. I just think they were right in what they taught about the bible.

Here:

"Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you. All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you." John 16:13-15 (KJV)

and again:

". . . in that day ye shall ask me nothing. Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall ask the Father in my name, he will give it you."
John 16:23 (KJV)

That is for us, our privilege in Christ Jesus.. Are we truly born again that we enter into it?

...And here comes the heretical teachings. I know you won't come out and say them for fear of being suspended from the forum.