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For Your Information - Hunt Exposes Calvinism

drstevej

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Dave Hunt is hardly a credible source in my experience. Having interacted with him some personally and having corresponded with him I find he is more interested in stirring controversy than resolving differences.

In the 80s he spoke to our singles group. I specifically asked him not to deal with his blast of Dallas Seminary in his most recent book (The Seduction of Christianity). He did it anyway at length.

He later asked if our church would host his seminar, I declined and reminded him that he had not honored his prior agreement.

He asked for a public debate over the issues and we declined and offered to discuss any differences privately. He insisted on an audience. We declined.

What love is this indeed, Dave.
 
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Benefactor

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Dave Hunt is hardly a credible source in my experience. Having interacted with him some personally and having corresponded with him I find he is more interested in stirring controversy than resolving differences.

In the 80s he spoke to our singles group. I specifically asked him not to deal with his blast of Dallas Seminary in his most recent book (The Seduction of Christianity). He did it anyway at length.

He later asked if our church would host his seminar, I declined and reminded him that he had not honored his prior agreement.

He asked for a public debate over the issues and we declined and offered to discuss any differences privately. He insisted on an audience. We declined.

What love is this indeed, Dave.

Sounds like you and Dave have a personal thing going on. I have to wonder why you are hanging out your laundry for all to see. I don't think what you are doing is in good taste. I hope that your public criticism of Dave does not land you in a lawsuit. Perhaps you need to be more careful in what you are doing.

Benefactor
 
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drstevej

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Sounds like you and Dave have a personal thing going on. I have to wonder why you are hanging out your laundry for all to see. I don't think what you are doing is in good taste. I hope that your public criticism of Dave does not land you in a lawsuit. Perhaps you need to be more careful in what you are doing.

Benefactor

Interesting that Dave blasts Christians in his publications having not discussed his concerns with them first and you critique me when I have discussed my concerns with Dave privately first.

Is it that you like his view and will condone his behavior?

As to any lawsuit, the correspondence is filed away.

I do not think your thread is in good taste, so we have a standoff in opinion. Feel free to express your opinions, I'll do the same.
 
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student ad x

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student ad x

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But far worse is the way that he uses sources to “prove” blatant historical errors! He cites a source (p. 19) that claims that, among others, Richard Baxter, John Newton, and John Bunyan opposed Calvinism! Anyone who has read those men knows that they all were strong proponents of God’s sovereign election. (Baxter held to a universal atonement, but he also strongly held to human depravity and God’s sovereign election.) On the same page, he pulls a quote from Spurgeon’s Autobiography to prove that Spurgeon was against limited atonement. But in the original context, Spurgeon was arguing in favor of limited atonement (Autobiography of C. H. Spurgeon [Banner of Truth], 1:171-172)! In fact, Spurgeon states (1:172) that the teaching that Christ died for everyone is “a thousand times more repulsive than any of those consequences which are said to be associated with the Calvinistic and Christian doctrine of special and particular redemption.” Later (p. 122), Hunt cites “a British scholar who thoroughly knew Spurgeon’s writings and sermons” again to the effect that Spurgeon definitely rejected limited atonement and that he ascribed freedom of will to men. Yet in his bibliography (p. 428), Hunt lists Spurgeon’s sermon, “Free Will a Slave,” where Spurgeon refutes free will. Iain Murray (The Forgotten Spurgeon [Banner of Truth], pp. 81 ff.) cites numerous references to show that Spurgeon not only affirmed “limited atonement”; he also argued that those who deny it weaken and undermine the entire doctrine of the substitutionary atonement. In his autobiography (1:168), Spurgeon called Arminianism (which is Dave Hunt’s view, even though Hunt denies it, since he holds to eternal security) heresy and states plainly, “Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else.” Either Hunt is a very sloppy scholar, or he is deliberately trying to deceive his readers into thinking that Spurgeon is on his side when he very well knows that he is not.
On page 102, Hunt quotes Spurgeon again and claims that he “could not accept the teaching that regeneration came before faith in Christ through the gospel.” Obviously, he is quoting Spurgeon out of context for his own ends (as he frequently does), without any understanding of Spurgeon’s theology. Murray (ibid., pp. 90 ff.), thoroughly documents how Spurgeon believed that faith and repentance are impossible before God regenerates the sinner. For example, Murray (p. 94) cites Spurgeon as saying that repentance and faith are “the first apparent result of regeneration.” And, “Evangelical repentance never can exist in an unrenewed soul.” Murray cites many more examples. Spurgeon believed “that the work of regeneration, conversion, sanctification and faith, is not an act of man’s free will and power, but of the mighty, efficacious and irresistible grace of God” (p. 104).
On page 100 is another example of how Hunt uses quotations out of context to make his opponent look bad and himself look good. He quotes R. C. Sproul to sound as if Sproul is fully endorsing the view “that God is not all that loving toward” sinners. But in the preceding and following context of Sproul’s book, Sproul is raising an objection that a critic might ask, conceding the critic’s objection as true for the sake of argument, and then raising a further question to show that the critic’s question is misguided. Hunt omits the context and thus makes Sproul appear to be saying something he isn’t stating at all! This is incredibly bad scholarship and argumentation on Hunt’s part.
On page 99, Hunt reveals his ignorance of theology when he says that J. I. Packer contradicts his fellow Calvinists and even himself in declaring that regeneration follows faith and justification. Hunt then quotes a sentence from Packer that speaks of justification by faith, not regeneration! Those are distinct theological terms with distinct meanings, as anyone with even a rudimentary understanding of theology would know! But never mind, Hunt discredits Packer to the unsuspecting reader, which is all that matters to Hunt.


Pastor Steven Cole
 
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msortwell

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I read approximately 2/3 of Debating Calvinism. I was asked to read it by a gentleman that attended a church where I was pastoring. This gentleman was decidedly anti-Calvinist, but not rude about it. He could not understand my complaints about Mr. Hunt’s ad homonym attacks and false characterization of Calvinist beliefs – false characterizations of Calvinist beliefs which he would then refute. It is extremely painful to try to endure attacks upon a fully inadequate caricature - while the attacker repeatedly claims victory. Eventually my friend forgave me of my commitment to read the entire book.

What I found difficult to understand was why my friend could not see Mr. Hunt’s offensive tone and transparent argumentation - that is, until my friend came to see the Calvinist view as the accurate representation of Scriptural truth. Interestingly enough, he then saw Mr. Hunt’s approach for what it is. Suddenly he too could see the caricature, the ad homonym attacks, etc. It was amazing.

Some time ago I found it largely useless to read the works of “anti’s.” That is, reading the writing of someone that is merely attacking a position is rarely of any real value. Rarely do they accurately understand the position that they are attacking. It is far more reliable to read the works of people that actually believe the position that they are discussing. Mr. Hunt is an anti. Clearly, it is strongly advisable to read the works of those holding opposing views while comparing each to Scripture.

The anti’s make their living (or just find their fun) by telling their fellow anti’s what their itching ears want to hear - that they are right. But sadly, they contribute nothing of value to the discussion.
 
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nobdysfool

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Sounds like you and Dave have a personal thing going on. I have to wonder why you are hanging out your laundry for all to see. I don't think what you are doing is in good taste. I hope that your public criticism of Dave does not land you in a lawsuit. Perhaps you need to be more careful in what you are doing.

Benefactor

Sounds to me as though the truth about Mr. Hunt is making someone uncomfortable, seeing that they have endorsed him as a "godly man". Perhaps that endorsement was a bit hasty. Or is it that they feel Calvinists should be held to an even higher standard than non-Calvinists? One could infer that from the exchange here.

Bottom line, Mr. Hunt appears to have some problems with the truth, and in being truthful, not to mention an apparent problem with integrity, and abiding by one's word. If I were such a one to believe that Mr. Hunt is such an impeccable witness, I would reconsider the unqualified endorsement of him, at the very least....
 
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the particular baptist

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I read approximately 2/3 of Debating Calvinism. I was asked to read it by a gentleman that attended a church where I was pastoring. This gentleman was decidedly anti-Calvinist, but not rude about it. He could not understand my complaints about Mr. Hunt’s ad homonym attacks and false characterization of Calvinist beliefs – false characterizations of Calvinist beliefs which he would then refute. It is extremely painful to try to endure attacks upon a fully inadequate caricature - while the attacker repeatedly claims victory. Eventually my friend forgave me of my commitment to read the entire book.

What I found difficult to understand was why my friend could not see Mr. Hunt’s offensive tone and transparent argumentation - that is, until my friend came to see the Calvinist view as the accurate representation of Scriptural truth. Interestingly enough, he then saw Mr. Hunt’s approach for what it is. Suddenly he too could see the caricature, the ad homonym attacks, etc. It was amazing.

Some time ago I found it largely useless to read the works of “anti’s.” That is, reading the writing of someone that is merely attacking a position is rarely of any real value. Rarely do they accurately understand the position that they are attacking. It is far more reliable to read the works of people that actually believe the position that they are discussing. Clearly, it is strongly advisable to read the works of those holding opposing views while comparing each to Scripture.

The anti’s make their living (or just find their fun) by telling their fellow anti’s what their itching ears want to hear - that they are right. But sadly, they contribute nothing of value to the discussion.


Reps !
 
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drstevej

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:confused: I don't know what that means! I am so out of touch. :blush:


Means he clicked on the reputation icon
reputation.php
and gave reputation points, just like I did your post. Note your total is higher now!
 
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Hammster

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Oh, like "None is righteous, no, not one; no one understands; no one seeks for God."? Or "Those who are in the flesh cannot please God."? Or " And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose. For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers."?

Those kind of verses?
 
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green wolverine

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What I found difficult to understand was why my friend could not see Mr. Hunt’s offensive tone and transparent argumentation - that is, until my friend came to see the Calvinist view as the accurate representation of Scriptural truth. Interestingly enough, he then saw Mr. Hunt’s approach for what it is. Suddenly he too could see the caricature, the ad homonym attacks, etc. It was amazing.

The joy of being a Calvinist is the joy of seeing that Scripture fits together, makes sense and that we're secure in Christ. Being a Calvinist may not make me popular, but it makes me happy.
 
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CmRoddy

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The joy of being a Calvinist is the joy of seeing that Scripture fits together, makes sense and that we're secure in Christ. Being a Calvinist may not make me popular, but it makes me happy.

Christianity isn't about being popular. ;)

Remember the words of Christ: "They will hate you because of me."
 
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CmRoddy

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Benefactor, why are you still posting videos of this man? His scholarship is terrible and his half-truths and misrepresentations/misunderstandings of Calvinism has been exposed from various different sources. Do you refuse to watch those? Are you one of those people that simply will not read/watch/listen to anything the other side has to say?

It's kind of sad how many people are out there that do that. Just look at the Southern Baptist John 3:16 conference; none of them did any exegesis during that whole thing. In fact, they didn't even define "atonement" or "propitiation"! They just spoke and threw out emotional "proof-texts" to prove their case.
 
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