For Your Information - Hunt Exposes Calvinism

[Charis kai Dunamis]

Whoa! What part is mine? You wrote God does it all by Himself. I ask, does what all if not also keeping me? obviously He doesn't do it all, right? He only provides salvation by His grace. We must believe the account, correct?

You're not listening. Salvation is monergistic. Sanctification is synergistic.

In your theology, how would one even know what spirit is doing the prompting, the Holy Spirit, a satanic one or your own, yet not brought into line with the knowledge of the intention of God? Do you know what the intention of God is for man, once redeemed and brought into Jesus Christ?

The one who is born again has the Spirit guiding him and teaching him. That guiding and teaching comes from the Scriptures. He enlightens our understanding of Scripture and leads us into truth, causing us to grow.

 

[Ormly]

You're not listening. Salvation is monergistic. Sanctification is synergistic.

You mean redemption is monegeristic, not salvation... need scripture for that?

The one who is born again has the Spirit guiding him and teaching him.

Maybe, because that is synergistic also.

That guiding and teaching comes from the Scriptures. He enlightens our understanding of Scripture and leads us into truth, causing us to grow.

Again, you presume too much. Maybe we grow, maybe we don't. With most, it all depends upon what commentary they reads. I have found too many who don't grow at all after years of "Bible studies" when what they study doesn't allow them to see things from the throne but from the pit, always crying out to God for forgiveness and rededicating their lives week after week, calling it repentance. Understand this: I am not a sinner saved by saved grace! I was a sinner grace by grace! I am now a saint, learning how to be faithful in Christ. [Eph 1.1 kjv] Now, what were you saying about the Holy Spirit enlightening anyone? Should one now view their favorite commentary to be Him?

BTW, I am relaxed. .. . .

 

[Charis kai Dunamis]

You mean redemption is monegeristic, not salvation... need scripture for that?

Go over to the other thread where I posted on Ephesians 2:1-5, there's your answer.

Again, you presume too much. Maybe we grow, maybe we don't. With most, it all depends upon what commentary they reads. I have found too many who don't grow at all after years of "Bible studies" when what they study doesn't allow them to see things from the throne but from the pit, always crying out to God for forgiveness and rededicating their lives week after week, calling it repentance. Understand this: I am not a sinner saved by saved grace! I was a sinner grace by grace! I am now a saint, learning how to be faithful in Christ. [Eph 1.1 kjv]

So you no longer sin? Or are you stating your position in Christ is no longer of sin?

Now, what were you saying about the Holy Spirit enlightening anyone? Should one now view their favorite commentary to be Him?

Obviously you are going to find a problem with what I have said, because there are "born again Christians" everywhere with completely conflicting/contradictory views. However, I have already stated sanctification is synergistic, which ought to be enough for you to understand - the Spirit leads us to truth and understanding by the Scriptures, yet because it is a both/and, some deny certain teachings of Scripture and formulate their own teachings. To a certain extent, I think everyone does it (including myself). We let our fleshly desires get in the way of our understanding and accepting of truth, and in turn, we pervert it. Does this nullify one's salvation? No.

BTW, I am relaxed. .. . .

 

[LiturgyInDMinor]

Ormly and Benefactor are neat.

 

[Ormly]

Go over to the other thread where I posted on Ephesians 2:1-5, there's your answer.

Which one?

So you no longer sin? Or are you stating your position in Christ is no longer of sin?

Easy, easy ... Lets not go dishonest on me. You know what wrote so quote it correctly.

Obviously you are going to find a problem with what I have said, because there are "born again Christians" everywhere with completely conflicting/contradictory views.

Yup.

However, I have already stated sanctification is synergistic, which ought to be enough for you to understand

It isn't because we are writing about salvation. Salvation is synergistic, last time read my Bible.

the Spirit leads us to truth

And I believe He tries . .real hard and harder for others, than He should ought to.

and understanding by the Scriptures, yet because it is a both/and, some deny certain teachings of Scripture and formulate their own teachings.

Yup. Lets name the authors, . . . . . O come on.

To a certain extent, I think everyone does it (including myself). We let our fleshly desires get in the way of our understanding and accepting of truth, and in turn, we pervert it. Does this nullify one's salvation? No.

Again, Yup. Never said it did. Etch this in stone: I am saved and born again. I don't need assurances and I don't need to hear the same worn out message of salvation every week. Any church that preaches it week after week, isn't worth its salt. How many times must a saved person need to hear it UNLESS he is taught he is still a sinner saved by grace and is made to feel, once again, a victim that Jesus sympathizes with? Where is growing in Christ in that bawlderdash? How is he ever to see himself now seated with Christ in Heavenly places and Christ calling him up to a higher place in the Father, if no one ever speaks of it from the pulpit in such a way as to drive the point home???

I won't be surprised because I know you believe heretical things Ormly, no offense.

Whatta mean, "No offense"? Speak of the heresy, my friend.

 

[Charis kai Dunamis]

Just say what you're going to say already Ormly... you already have the point in your head and yet you recede.

 

[Ormly]

Just say what you're going to say already Ormly... you already have the point in your head and yet you recede.

I have said what I want to say. I have nothing up my sleeve and have written forthrightly. I suggest you ponder it and I pray you will receive it. It was written in good faith and with the full knowledge of the Lord . . .

 

[Charis kai Dunamis]

I have said what I want to say. I have nothing up my sleeve and have written forthrightly. I suggest you ponder it and I pray you will receive it. It was written in good faith and with the full knowledge of the Lord . . .

Let me guess... sonship.

 

[Ormly]

Let me guess... sonship.

Absolutely! Joint-heir[ship with Christ to be understood as an impartation and not and imputation. . . .

 

[Benefactor]

Ormly and Benefactor are neat.

Interesting: LOL, trying to figure out what NEAT means: Cool, Hip, Proper, Different, Challenging, Etc.

I do have a question: In that you are a No Rapture Baptist wouldn't you be more comfortable in the Reform Churches, Amillenial and Calvinistic?

 

[MamaZ]

The gift in the redemptive process is Grace, Adoption, Salvation, Justification, and Glorification. All this as a result of our, your, their, his, or her faith in God's Grace:

Man's faith in Christ is not a work. This is one of the fundamental flaws of Calvinistic Theology.

Note the following:

The Process of Salvation

Regeneration and the language of “SALVATION”, how is one saved, or “what must I do to be saved” according to Scripture.

What does regeneration mean? New birth

The Greek word for regeneration is only found in two N. T. passages, Matthew 19:28 and Titus 3:5.

Matthew 19:28 And Jesus said to them, "Truly I say to you, that you who have followed Me, in the regeneration when the Son of Man will sit on His glorious throne, you also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. This regeneration will take place at the beginning of the millennial kingdom, and speaks about change in the earth as Christ rules and reigns in Jerusalem.If you do not hold to this view of the end times and believe in only a second coming then eternity this verse would apply to that position too for it is a solid verse that points to the time of the second coming regardless of eschatology. What we are establishing here is that this particular regeneration is not associated with the new birth of a lost person, salvation in Christ.

According to Titus 3:5 salvation is by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit. We know that regeneration means new birth. If we only had this verse that addressed salvation we could conclude that faith is not necessary in the process, but that is not the case.

Titus 3: 5. He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit;

2 Thessalonians 2:13. But we should always give thanks to God for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God has chosen you from the beginning for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and faith in the truth.

2 Thessalonians further defines the salvation of a person. Notice that the person saved is describe as someone chosen from a beginning. Wherever you place the beginning is not the important point in this verse, but the process. If you see “beginning” as prior to creation or within creation the beginning is not the truth being expressed by this verse, salvation is the central teaching of the verse. Titus 3:5 tells us salvation is by the washing of regeneration and renewing and 2 Thess. 2:13 salvation is by sanctification of the Spirit and faith in the truth. Now we have a broader understanding of the salvation of people. The Holy Spirit regenerates, renews and sanctifies unto salvation by faith in the truth. This would be the clear conclusion of these two verses. Briefly, 2 Thessalonians 2:13 tells us what Titus 3:5 assumes the readers understands, salvation is through or by sanctification by the Spirit and (by) faith in the truth.

1. Salvation is by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit Titus 3:5
2 Salvation is by sanctification by the Spirit and faith in the truth, 2 Thess. 2:13

Also, it can be concluded that “He saved us …..by the washing of regeneration (new birth) and renewing by the Holy Spirit” which is synonymous with “God has chosen you …for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit”, not to exclude “and (by) faith in the truth.” The point here is that regeneration, renewing and sanctification are descriptions of what new birth is. When a person is saved he is regenerated, renewed and sanctified. They all happen at the same time and are the “elements” of true conversion.

Read carefully Acts 26:16:

Acts 26:16. 'But get up and stand on your feet; for this purpose I have appeared to you, to appoint you (PAUL) a minister and a witness not only to the things which you have seen, but also to the things in which I will appear to you; 17. rescuing you from the {Jewish} people and from the Gentiles, to whom I am sending you, (Paul) 18. to open their eyes so that they may turn from darkness to light and from the dominion of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who have been sanctified by faith in Me. Paul is witnessing to people about the gospel and all the benefits that are given to the one believing is by faith in Christ.

We know from:
1. Salvation is by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit Titus 3:5
2 Salvation is by sanctification by the Spirit and faith in the truth, 2 Thess. 2:13

Therefore Acts 26:16, 17 and 18 is telling us that Paul is responsible to witness to the Gentiles and in doing so by his witness for Christ to open their eyes so that they may turn form sin and receive forgiveness of sins and be sanctified by faith in Christ. We know that salvation is described as regeneration, renewing and sanctification by the Spirit all by faith in the truth. Acts 26:16 clearly tells us that forgiveness of sins and an inheritance (equivalent to salvation) belongs to those who by faith in Christ are sanctified. This agrees with Titus 3:5 and 2 Thess. 2:13. Therefore we now have three verses that teach salvation is by faith and this salvation experience is described as regeneration, renewing and sanctification, and now forgiveness of sins and an inheritance. To say it another way one’s faith in “Me” Christ results in regeneration, renewing, sanctification, forgiveness of sins, and an inheritance, again all this by faith in Christ.

And with all this you have put here what does this have to do with the fact that Jesus is the originator of our faith? Not ourselves but Jesus.. He is the author of our faith.. He is the prefector of faith. We can stand in Awe of Him knowing He is this and it is He we can lean on. Never having to fear for nothing knowing He is the author and the finisher of our faith. Knowing HE has promised I will NEVER leave you nor forsake you..

 

[drstevej]

MamaZ ftw.

Author and perfecter of our faith.

not

It's Salvation, and I helped.

 

[MamaZ]

MamaZ ftw.

Author and perfecter of our faith.

not

It's Salvation, and I helped.

 

[Ormly]

Jesus is NOT the originator of our faith, Abraham is. Abraham is called, the father of [our] faith.

Anybody need scripture for that?

ONe more thing: It is NEVER a gift of salvation and I helped, but rather it is a gift of salvation and "I responded".

All of the scriptures reveal that.

OOPS! Forgot this note: JTB said that God had said that Jesus would baptize with the Spirit, not that He would give the Spirit.

 

[Hammster]

Jesus is NOT the originator of our faith, Abraham is. Abraham is called, the father of [our] faith.

Anybody need scripture for that?

Yep.

 

[Ormly]

Yep.

Will this persuade you:

"Are only the circumcised people blessed, or are uncircumcised people blessed as well? We say, “Abraham's faith was regarded as God's approval of him.” How was his faith regarded as God's approval? Was he circumcised or was he uncircumcised at that time? He had not been circumcised.
Abraham's faith was regarded as God's approval while he was still uncircumcised. The mark of circumcision is the seal of that approval. Therefore, he is the father of every believer who is not circumcised, and their faith, too, is regarded as God's approval of them. He is also the father of those who not only are circumcised but also are following in the footsteps of his faith. Our father Abraham had that faith before he was circumcised." Romans 4:9-12 (GW)


Here is a little more in "easy read" text.

"So it was not by obeying Moses' Teachings that Abraham or his descendants received the promise that he would inherit the world. Rather, it was through God's approval of his faith. If those who obey Moses' Teachings are the heirs, then faith is useless and the promise is worthless. The laws in Moses' Teachings bring about anger. But where laws don't exist, they can't be broken.
Therefore, the promise is based on faith so that it can be a gift.
Consequently, the promise is guaranteed for every descendant, not only for those who are descendants by obeying Moses' Teachings but also for those who are descendants by believing as Abraham did. He is the father of all of us, as Scripture says: “I have made you a father of many nations.” Abraham believed when he stood in the presence of the God who gives life to dead people and calls into existence things that don't even exist."
Romans 4:13-17 (GW)

 

[nobdysfool]

MamaZ ftw.

Author and perfecter of our faith.

not

It's Salvation, and I helped.

Shake 'n' Bake theology: Jesus saved me, an' I HELPED!!!

Maybe that's too vague a reference for the younger readers. It was an old TV commercial (advert for the Brits) extolling the virtues of a breading mix for frying chicken, that made baked chicken taste like breaded fried chicken. The husband comes home from work, and asks, "What's for dinner?" The little daughter proudly announces, "it's Shake 'n' Bake, an' I helped!" Add a southern accent, and you have the idea.

 

[Hammster]

Are you aware of what is meant by "father"?

 

[Ormly]

Are you aware of what is meant by "father"?

Sure am. You aren't about to play with the word now, are you?

 

[Hammster]

Sure am. You aren't about to play with the word now, are you?

No. I just wanted to know if you knew that it can be used in more that just the strict literal sense, which it seems you are doing. But, if you don't mind, could you clear it up and explain what it means?