For years the statement of......

[Redac]

They did not assimilate, no. They wiped out the native Americans and imposed their own culture.

They assimilated with the culture of the United States that had been established and into which they immigrated. That it wasn't assimilation with the Natives doesn't mean it wasn't assimilation.

Maybe newer cultures think they should do the same thing.

And so many people just can't wait for it to happen.

 

[Paidiske]

But would it not be better to respond to different cultures/societies as an American culture/society as opposed to the "flavor of week" so to speak. Then other cultures/societies will understand what they can expect from us as they deal with us and us with them. Understanding of different cultures/societies should never be a one way street; we need to understand where others come from but others need to understand us also. A consistent approach on how we deal with people can provide that......

I'm not American, so in a way it's not for me to say.

But from my point of view, I've always lived in multicultural societies. It was that kind of society I had in mind when talking about the value of diversity, not a situation where you had a group of different countries each of which was monocultural. I think that would limit the potential benefit of the diversity, since there would be much less contact with one another and sharing of ideas.

But is your issue really with international relations (as your choice of "us" and "them" above suggests), or are you more concerned with different groups within America?

 

[civilwarbuff]

But is your issue really with international relations (as your choice of "us" and "them" above suggests), or are you more concerned with different groups within America?

At this point I believe it encompasses both equally......

 

[Smidlee]

It's interesting to noted the imagine that Daniel interpreted for Nebuchadnezzar had feet and toes mixed with clay and iron. Clay and iron doesn't mix very well.

 

[TLK Valentine]

....."strength through diversity" or we are made stronger through our diverisity has been "preached" to Americans, primarily from the left. Is it true; does diversity make us stronger or does it divide us....make us take positions against each other?

Diversity doesn't do that; fear of it does.

If it makes us stronger, how does it do that?

Consider the following:

"A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects." -Robert A. Heinlein

From diversity comes variety, from variety comes adaptability, from adaptability comes strength.

 

[civilwarbuff]

Diversity doesn't do that; fear of it does.

Prove your statement.....

Consider the following:

"A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects." -Robert A. Heinlein

From diversity comes variety, from variety comes adaptability, from adaptability comes strength.

If you think this is about job diversification.....you really missed the boat.....or that quote just gives you a warm fuzzy......

 

[OldWiseGuy]

They did not assimilate, no. They wiped out the native Americans and imposed their own culture. Maybe newer cultures think they should do the same thing.

There was no homogenous 'native American' culture.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

]

Consider the following:

"A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects." -Robert A. Heinlein

This is true. However, this applies to the individual, not the nation. Today the nation as a whole is better off with specialization. But, the individual is better off possessing a wide variety of skills so that he or she isn't a slave to the high priced specialists.

My oldest brother and his wife built their first home by themselves and never had a mortgage payment from that time forward. Later a heart attack took him out of the insurance business (doctors orders) and he recalled his building skills and started a remodeling business, specializing in water and fire damaged houses (using his past insurance connections). Some cultures insist that young men learn a trade before they do anything else. Good advice. Sadly our kids are unable to even work summer jobs anymore. They take out student loans and allow immigrants to have those jobs.

From diversity comes variety, from variety comes adaptability, from adaptability comes strength.

Thousands, perhaps millions, of out-of-work people have no marketable skills other than their life-long specialty. Many seek any job they can get, but employers take one look and judge them unfit or inappropriate for those jobs.

Many don't understand what production physical work actually is. A friend and I, both meatcutters at the time, spent a weekend on his uncle-in-law's farm, where we baled hay and loaded it into a barn. When his uncle came to see how we had progressed he couldn't believe that two guys could do so much work in a single day. He walked back and forth, looking at the field, then the hay in the barn, then us, in amazement.

He confessed that early in his life he had determined that working with his hands would not provide him the lifestyle that he desired. He went on to found a very successful insurance company, and became quite wealthy. Successful as he was he was completely out of touch with physical production work, as are many such specialists who are currently unemployed.

 

[Mountain_Girl406]

There was no homogenous 'native American' culture.

Is there a homogeneous modern American culture? If so, what is it?

 

[TLK Valentine]

Prove your statement.....

Well then, why don't you tell me which part of "diversity" leads to an "us vs. them" mentality?

Because it seems to me that, by definition, "diversity" is against that sort of thing... "they" are not inferior to "us," so we shouldn't look down on "them," and "they" aren't trying to take over "us," so we shouldn't be afraid of "them."

Indeed, the whole point behind "diversity" is that "we" have a lot to learn from "them," and vice versa.

I've yet to hear anyone explain how that's a bad thing... perhaps you'll be the first?

If you think this is about job diversification.....you really missed the boat.

What is true about jobs is true about a lot of things... sorry if the analogy flew past you.

In fact, I can't think of very many situations where having variety is preferable to not having it... so why shouldn't variety be celebrated?

 

[civilwarbuff]

Is there a homogeneous modern American culture? If so, what is it?

For the most part there is. We live under the same form of government utilizing essentially the same laws. We construct infrastructure that benefits all individuas, educate our people essentially the same way. We don't commit war on each other (1 exception), etc....
Native American culture was distinct and highly variable determined in large part to what area of the country they lived in; climate was a major dictator to culture and survival. They were, in reality, a series of nation states.....

 

[TLK Valentine]

]


This is true. However, this applies to the individual, not the nation.

Does it not?

Today the nation as a whole is better off with specialization. But, the individual is better off possessing a wide variety of skills so that he or she isn't a slave to the high priced specialists.

And is not a nation similarly better off? Should not a nation possess a wide variety of skills so that it isn't a slave, not only to "high priced specialists," but to the winds of change?

Consider: When we think about the Middle East, most people think about oil. An oversimplification, perhaps, but let's go with it. Now, being good at one thing is all well and nice... as long as that one thing is good for something. When technology makes oil obsolete (and it will eventually) what will they do then?

One Trick Pony knows one trick -- when is that ever a recipe for long-term success?

My oldest brother and his wife built their first home by themselves and never had a mortgage payment from that time forward. Later a heart attack took him out of the insurance business (doctors orders) and he recalled his building skills and started a remodeling business, specializing in water and fire damaged houses (using his past insurance connections). Some cultures insist that young men learn a trade before they do anything else. Good advice. Sadly our kids are unable to even work summer jobs anymore. They take out student loans and allow immigrants to have those jobs.

Thousands, perhaps millions, of out-of-work people have no marketable skills other than their life-long specialty. Many seek any job they can get, but employers take one look and judge them unfit or inappropriate for those jobs.[/QUOTE]

And is a city, state, or nation that overspecializes any better off?

Detroit used to be the automotive capital of the world... then the Japanese got better at it. Have you seen Detroit lately?

Is a nation, or even "culture," in any way wise to risk that happening on a larger scale? We should be seeking out what is different or unusual... not running from it.

Many don't understand what production physical work actually is. A friend and I, both meatcutters at the time, spent a weekend on his uncle-in-law's farm, where we baled hay and loaded it into a barn. When his uncle came to see how we had progressed he couldn't believe that two guys could do so much work in a single day. He walked back and forth, looking at the field, then the hay in the barn, then us, in amazement.

He confessed that early in his life he had determined that working with his hands would not provide him the lifestyle that he desired. He went on to found a very successful insurance company, and became quite wealthy. Successful as he was he was completely out of touch with physical production work, as are many such specialists who are currently unemployed.

And it's sad that our post-industrial society has discouraged the "jack-of-all-trades" thinking in exchange for more specialists...

You can even hear it in our language -- employees are no longer "employees," but "human resources." The man who only operates that one machine is no more special than the machine itself... and is every bit as replaceable.

I submit that what is true of economy (which is also true of biology, science, military, and government), is also true of culture. Overspecialization is a weakness waiting to be exploited.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Is there a homogeneous modern American culture? If so, what is it?

Individual liberty. That's why people come here. Many are sick and tired of living their own culture's 'scripted' life with it's caste and class systems, restrictive religions, etc. I once heard of a man from India who wanted to be a cowboy from his youth. He came to America an spent his vacations on a working ranch, as a cowboy. He lasso'd the American Dream.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Does it not?



And is not a nation similarly better off? Should not a nation possess a wide variety of skills so that it isn't a slave, not only to "high priced specialists," but to the winds of change?

Consider: When we think about the Middle East, most people think about oil. An oversimplification, perhaps, but let's go with it. Now, being good at one thing is all well and nice... as long as that one thing is good for something. When technology makes oil obsolete (and it will eventually) what will they do then?

One Trick Pony knows one trick -- when is that ever a recipe for long-term success?



Thousands, perhaps millions, of out-of-work people have no marketable skills other than their life-long specialty. Many seek any job they can get, but employers take one look and judge them unfit or inappropriate for those jobs.

And is a city, state, or nation that overspecializes any better off?

Detroit used to be the automotive capital of the world... then the Japanese got better at it. Have you seen Detroit lately?

Is a nation, or even "culture," in any way wise to risk that happening on a larger scale? We should be seeking out what is different or unusual... not running from it.



And it's sad that our post-industrial society has discouraged the "jack-of-all-trades" thinking in exchange for more specialists...

You can even hear it in our language -- employees are no longer "employees," but "human resources." The man who only operates that one machine is no more special than the machine itself... and is every bit as replaceable.

I submit that what is true of economy (which is also true of biology, science, military, and government), is also true of culture. Overspecialization is a weakness waiting to be exploited.[/QUOTE]

I agree.

 

[Mountain_Girl406]

Individual liberty. That's why people come here. Many are sick and tired of living their own culture's 'scripted' life with it's caste and class systems, restrictive religions, etc. I once heard of a man from India who wanted to be a cowboy from his youth. He came to America an spent his vacations on a working ranch, as a cowboy. He lasso'd the American Dream.

Is individual liberty enough to define a culture? It seems like that gives us the freedom to live multiple culures. For instance, some would say there's such a thing as a cowboy culture, complete with music, food, attire, dance, attitudes, literature, etc. Yet I'm an American and don't share much of anything with cowboy culture.

 

[TLK Valentine]

For the most part there is. We live under the same form of government utilizing essentially the same laws.

And yet that government is made up of diverse parts, operating under different rules, culled from different cultures...

We construct infrastructure that benefits all individuas,

Regardless of who they are or how they use it.

educate our people essentially the same way.

Are you extolling the efficiency of our public education system?

We don't commit war on each other (1 exception), etc....

Two exceptions, actually -- The Revolutionary War and the Civil War... and that's only if you're counting official declared wars... Segregation and the resulting Civil Rights Movement wasn't a sign that all was well... Then there was the history of the women's movement, from suffrage to the ERA...

Native American culture was distinct and highly variable determined in large part to what area of the country they lived in; climate was a major dictator to culture and survival. They were, in reality, a series of nation states.....

And nation states often go to war with one another... that, sadly, isn't likely to ever change.

 

[TLK Valentine]

Individual liberty. That's why people come here. Many are sick and tired of living their own culture's 'scripted' life with it's caste and class systems, restrictive religions, etc.

Ironic, then, that too many people would demand that such people abandon the best of their own culture in order to embrace what we both agree is not part of ours: conformity.

I once heard of a man from India who wanted to be a cowboy from his youth. He came to America an spent his vacations on a working ranch, as a cowboy. He lasso'd the American Dream.

lol! The Cowboy is an Indian!

 

[Larniavc]

....."strength through diversity" or we are made stronger through our diverisity has been "preached" to Americans, primarily from the left. Is it true; does diversity make us stronger or does it divide us....make us take positions against each other? If it makes us stronger, how does it do that? And lets use this for the definition of diversity:
Simple Definition of diversity

: the quality or state of having many different forms, types, ideas, etc.

: the state of having people who are different races or who have different cultures in a group or organization

I think it becomes a problem when one group isolates itself from the greater culture. In Northern Ireland when I was growing up there were Catholic and Protestant schools (and areas of cities). This facilitated a culture of mutual distrust.

If all people of a creed or culture live together then having another zone of another culture inevitably causes outgrouping.

I went to school with Catholics and Protestants and there was no outgrouping at all.

Zones of different culture in a country is not much different than different countries in a continent in that they may not share a common identity: if those zones can be broken down by integration the differences become less significant.

Cultural isolation is bad, integration is good as there are fewer outgroups.

 

[civilwarbuff]

And yet that government is made up of diverse parts, operating under different rules, culled from different cultures...

And yet if operates over all members of society.

Regardless of who they are or how they use it.

And yet all people benefit from it....

Are you extolling the efficiency of our public education system?

Of course not but it is utilized across the country in essentillly the same way....

Two exceptions, actually -- The Revolutionary War and the Civil War...

I almost incuded the Revolutionary War; neighbors often fought neighbors but Loyalists generally regarded themselves as British subects, not Americans.

 

[TLK Valentine]

And yet if operates over all members of society.

And yet all people benefit from it....

And it manages to do so while still preserving diversity.

Of course not but it is utilized across the country in essentillly the same way....

And therein lies the problem. Different students have different levels, different needs, and require different approaches -- our current system is obsessed with standardized testing, which is only effective on standardized humans.

I almost incuded the Revolutionary War; neighbors often fought neighbors but Loyalists generally regarded themselves as British subects, not Americans.

And had they won, they would've been right.