For-u-ms ?!

[Nadiine]

Who have, given the inclusive nature of this site, always been entitled to be members, although not to post to the Christians-only sub-forums. So the only difference there is that (AIUI) the Christians-only section is open to a few non-Nicene Christians. Is that really such an issue?

David.

So..... you're saying the only difference now is that Mormons & JW's & Unitarians are free to enter the Christians sections freely, right?

 

[ReformedChapin]

Erwin's posted a lot more than just three lines.

David.

The primary description of a Christian is..

1. Christian

A Christian, simply put, is a disciple of Jesus Christ:
Acts 11:26 (NIV) "The disciples were called Christians first in Antioch."

To become a Christian, a person should refer to the following Scripture:
John 3:16 (NIV) "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son (Jesus), that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life."
Romans 10:9-13 (NIV) "That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved. As the Scripture says, "Anyone who trusts in him will never be put to shame." For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile—the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him, for, "Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.""
Acts 2:38 (NIV) "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit."

By that definition anyone can be a Christian as long as they claim a few things. They don't have to be orthodox and their definition of God can be anything.

hence..

3. Non-Nicene Christian

These are members who identify themselves as Christian, but for any number of reason cannot accept all or part of the Nicene Creed, outside of the previously mentioned options. Examples of Non-Nicene churches are Unitarian, Latter-Day Saints (Mormon), Jehovah's Witnesses etc.

 

[Nadiine]

The primary description of a Christian is..


By that definition anyone can be a Christian as long as they claim a few things. They don't have to be orthodox and their definition of God can be anything.

hence..

K, thanks.... that's exactly what I got out of it too - FREE FOR ALL / NEW AGE INCLUSIVISM.

ps. good luck pinpointing what SIN IS to even "repent" of to be saved!
*falls over*

 

[David Brider]

So..... you're saying the only difference now is that Mormons & JW's & Unitarians are free to enter the Christians sections freely, right?

If I'm reading it correctly, yes.

David.

 

[David Brider]

By that definition anyone can be a Christian as long as they claim a few things.

Until now, anyone on these boards has been entitled to a Christian icon if they claimed to believe the Nicene Creed. It all boils down to what we claim. And it's not as if the definition that Erwin's offered is in any way unBiblical. It might not go as far as you'd like it to go in terms of dotting all the "i"s and crossing all the "t"s (although the break down of the Nicene Creed does quite a lot of that), but it's a long way from that to your statement:

They don't have to be orthodox and their definition of God can be anything.

...which is ridiculously OTT. Yes, the Christians-only section is now open to non-Nicene Christians - but it's always been open to Christians with whom you don't agree on things (like, um, me), so how is that going to dramatically change things round here? I suspect the answer is: a lot less than you think.

Don't panic.

David.

 

[irateional]

K, thanks.... that's exactly what I got out of it too - FREE FOR ALL / NEW AGE INCLUSIVISM.

ps. good luck pinpointing what SIN IS to even "repent" of to be saved!
*falls over*

Sin isn't the reason we repent.

We come to Jesus realizing that sin is dead and that we have no need to repent anymore as we have been saved by Christ on the cross.

 

[Nadiine]

Sin isn't the reason we repent.

We come to Jesus realizing that sin is dead and that we have no need to repent anymore as we have been saved by Christ on the cross.

I agree, I had said that with a few people in mind from a previous thread I was on who were in the thread who DO claim those very things.

 

[*Starlight*]

With that gone, anyone signs up as "Christians" - so pretty soon it will be more publically known and you can watch the influx as Mormons & JW's & whoever else comes in with false gospels.

For them YOU have the false gospel. Neither of you can prove who is right beyond any doubt. And just because you're a more mainstream Christian than they are doesn't make you better or more important.

 

[HuntingMan]

Erwin, Id like to repeat my sentiments from elsewhere....
GOOD JOB !

As a follower of our risen Lord NOTHING of the changes is a threat to MY beliefs. As far as Im concerned many of these changes are for the better as far as letting the world in even more to this community and given us even more opportunity to share the gospel of Christ with them.

Ive seen the many logos that someone has apparently done a LOT of work on, that should let any of the naysayers here see that it was not your intent to remove Christ from these forums, but seemingly was to bring in even MORE unbelievers who might be witnessed to.

 

[Nadiine]

For them YOU have the false gospel. Neither of you can prove who is right beyond any doubt.

YOU SAY THAT BECUZ YOU REJECT SCRIPTURE AUTHORITY. Remove the rule book and you have little to prove anything with.
That's how you get away with anything you do & say.
BUT YOU CAN'T PROVE YOU'RE RIGHT EITHER. You have no support for your witnessing and truth claims. And, things said do violate biblical proclamations AND i CALL THAT PROOF ENOUGH.

You can remove the rule books and think truth rests upon YOU (as if your some expert on spiritual truth?), it doesn't remove anything in reality.

It just allows people to do what they want - according to their own opinions & desires despite what scripture says.

And just because you're a more mainstream Christian than they are doesn't make you better or more important.

Uh, when did I claim to be any such thing?

It only makes me obedient to what God had written for me to of KNOW HIS WILL and plan. I don't have to GUESS and make up my religion, HE TOLD ME HIS TRUTH thru His word.
Live how you want, I'll proclaim what's in His scripture and we'll all find out in the end. (either way, I lose nothing).

 

[Simonline]

Why is it the fundies see this as a bad thing, yet those on the butt end of the prosletyzing see this as a good thing?

To non-believers, Christian is no better than other faiths, matter of fact, other faiths are much better than Christianity, given the violence history of the religion. You think it's a compromise, I think it's dropping some of the hypocracy and the arrogance of actually thinkiing Christians are somehow better or more moral than non-believers when for many of us, those most horrid people we have ever had the displeasure of meeting have been Christians.

I've had a lot of experiance on different forums with Christians and in real life, and the amount of them that I have talked to that have turned out to be a complete antitheseis of Christ has left me with as bad a taste as Islam has.

As far as I'm concerned, the only difference between Islam and Christianity, in terms of violence, corruption, brutality, ect, is the fact the many of the historically CHristian nations have become first world nations whose populas has become educated enough to put the reigns on the authority of Christianity. The Islamic world has not done so.

In answer to your initial question. Christians recognize the absolute and objective nature of Truth (i.e. Reality) whilst non-Christians wrongly believe that 'truth' is just a matter of opinion, no more or less valid than anyone else's opinion (including God's)?! That fundamentally defective outlook on life is what is clouding your perception of reality as just 'a subjective matter of opinion'.

Christianity is not responsible for all the attrocities committed in its name by unscrupulous people exploiting Christianity to justify their own actions and your sweeping generalization condemning Christianity wholesale is totally unjustified. Unlike Islam, Christianity is not an imperialist colonialist religion bent on imposing itself on all people everywhere and subjugating them by force as necessary.

So, based on your limited experience with a few Christians who, by your own admission, failed to live up to Christ's perfection, you're condemning Christianity wholesale?!

Before you start making odious comparisons between Christianity and Islam I suggest that you go and find out about both faiths since you seem to know nothing about either. I recommend the writings of Mark A. Gabriel www.markagabriel.org a former university lecturer at Al Azhar University in Cairo, Egypt, with doctorates in Islamic History and Islamic Philosophy who renounced his Islamic faith (before he became a Christian) and who now lives in the US teaching Christians the truth about Islam (the Islam about which the Muslims will not tell us until we are muslims).

Simonline.

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

I am, holding a gun to you, that is. Phsych!!!!

Have a great day ya'll.


No idea how I ended up on this thread.

 

[Nadiine]

In answer to your initial question. Christians recognize the absolute and objective nature of Truth (i.e. Reality) whilst non-Christians wrongly believe that 'truth' is just a matter of opinion, no more or less valid than anyone else's opinion (including God's)?! That fundamentally defective outlook on life is what is clouding your perception of reality as just 'a subjective matter of opinion'.

Christianity is not responsible for all the attrocities committed in its name by unscrupulous people exploiting Christianity to justify their own actions and your sweeping generalization condemning Christianity wholesale is totally unjustified. Unlike Islam, Christianity is not an imperialist colonialist religion bent on imposing itself on all people everywhere and subjugating them by force as necessary.

So, based on your limited experience with a few Christians who, by your own admission, failed to live up to Christ's perfection, you're condemning Christianity wholesale?!

Before you start making odious comparisons between Christianity and Islam I suggest that you go and find out about both faiths since you seem to know nothing about either. I recommend the writings of Mark A. Gabriel www.markagabriel.org a former university lecturer at Al Azhar University in Cairo, Egypt, with doctorates in Islamic History and Islamic Philosophy who renounced his Islamic faith (before he became a Christian) and who now lives in the US teaching Christians the truth about Islam (the Islam about which the Muslims will not tell us until we are muslims).

Simonline.

rep-worthy post!!

 

[Simonline]

rep-worthy post!!

Thank you.

Simonline.

 

[ParsonJefferson]

How prophetic this thread turned out to actually be.

Alas, nobody "in power" cared - and this once-wonderful forum has declined to the worthless sham it now is.

From 7,500 members, where intelligent Christian discussion was the norm - to about 100 people (almost all of whom are either ultra-liberal "almost" Christians and/or atheists) posting nothing but stupid garbage.

The staff has made it happen.

Pathetic...

 

[white dove]

Wow.


You know, I love the moderation on this site as much as you do, I'm sure. But, the fact of the matter is, it's not 100% horrible here. There is a LOT of crap that happens and sometimes, what is allowed seems inconsistant and heavily-biased.


That being said, have you considered what you contribute here?


I have entertained the thought of leaving this place so many times, never to return because of how distasteful and anti-Christ-like it appears on several levels. What it is now is not how it used to be when I first came here. In some ways, it's better. In many ways, it's worse. But, I have to figure out if coming here is truly beneficial for me. If it isn't, I need to pack my bags. I don't think anyone would notice the difference, tell you the truth. Even though the numbers aren't as high as they used to be, there are still many more people who come and go as they please here.

 

[Ringo84]

From 7,500 members, where intelligent Christian discussion was the norm - to about 100 people (almost all of whom are either ultra-liberal "almost" Christians and/or atheists) posting nothing but stupid garbage.

Firstly, your comment about one hundred people is a HUGE exaggeration, as there are many more people here than one hundred at any given time.

Secondly, "ultra-liberal" defined how? By being anywhere to the left of Jerry Falwell?

Thirdly, coming from the person who, without provocation or substantiation, claimed that I "never" prove my points about church and state, your argument about "stupid garbage" doesn't hold much weight.

The staff has made it happen.

Pathetic...

Boo hoo. If you don't like it, you're welcome to leave.
Ringo

 

[ParsonJefferson]

[/size]

Firstly, your comment about one hundred people is a HUGE exaggeration, as there are many more people here than one hundred at any given time.
No, actually there aren't.

There are more people who are technically "signed on" - which happens when you turn your computer on, unless you've intentionally logged off.

But the question that begs the answer is this: Why have THOUSANDS of good members left this forum? I think the answers are perfectly clear.


Secondly, "ultra-liberal" defined how? By being anywhere to the left of Jerry Falwell?
Nice one. Should I respond with, "I know you are but what am I"?



Thirdly, coming from the person who, without provocation or substantiation, claimed that I "never" prove my points about church and state, your argument about "stupid garbage" doesn't hold much weight.
No idea what you're talking about here.


Boo hoo. If you don't like it, you're welcome to leave.
For all practical purposes, I have.

I have REPEATEDLY told multiple members of the staff - including the administrator - to permanently remove my "membership" or "account". But they are so stupid, and so inept, and so far encased into their own little ego bubbles, that they cannot even manage to do that.

And that is further evidence of the hundreds of people whose membership here remains open, though they've long since joined the exodus - and why you've been willfully deluded into thinking there are FAR more people here than there actually are.

But you're welcome to continue to wallow here in al Jazeera land.


Ringo

...now try to tell me - with a straight face - that you HONESTLY haven't noticed the free-fall this "formerly-decent" forum has been in for the past year.

 

[Nadiine]

...now try to tell me - with a straight face - that you HONESTLY haven't noticed the free-fall this "formerly-decent" forum has been in for the past year.

if ringo's more liberal, he'll like what he sees and won't call it 'formerly decent' either



Actually they've made pretty good strides to get it back to the way it was prior to Erwin's 7 debacle that ruined this site practically beyond repair.
This owner is late in implimenting change which caused many more to leave.

- The only problem right now as I see it is that there STILL isn't a strong enough definition of what a Christian is (allowing many to hold icons that I don't see appropriate) -
- people just switch out faith icons at will to post in different places...
pagan one day, anglican Christian the next
- and the reporting/moderating system is completely blocked & nontransparent.

It's gotten somewhat better - but you have to ask if it's too late to matter? I hope not.

 

[ParsonJefferson]

if ringo's more liberal, he'll like what he sees and won't call it 'formerly decent' either

Actually they've made pretty good strides to get it back to the way it was prior to Erwin's 7 debacle that ruined this site practically beyond repair.
This owner is late in implimenting change which caused many more to leave.

- The only problem right now as I see it is that there STILL isn't a strong enough definition of what a Christian is (allowing many to hold icons that I don't see appropriate) -
- people just switch out faith icons at will to post in different places...
pagan one day, anglican Christian the next
- and the reporting/moderating system is completely blocked & nontransparent.

It's gotten somewhat better - but you have to ask if it's too late to matter? I hope not.

You're right.

Is this forum ruined beyond repair? You "hope not", but I say, "Absolutely, and without a doubt."

One of the reasons this forum is beyond hope, is because you still have basically the same staff - that have always been at the center of the problems - doing the same crap. These dolts will let some pervert demand to know where my daughter goes to high school, then give me an infraction for reporting it. They'll let somebody call me a liar, and "bigot of the year" - and leave the post up for weeks - but they'll infract me for reporting it.

The ONLY hope for this forum - and I don't believe this is even a possibility - is if they completely clean house on the moderating staff. It's ego and power run amok, so none of them are going to step down. Shoot, one of the staff is an openly racist man-hater. They need to be removed and replaced. But that's not going to happen so, like I already said, I'm firmly convinced that this place is beyond salvaging.

And that's a shame, because there USED TO BE a lot of really good discussions taking place here. I'd be curious to know what forums those intelligent people are now frequenting.