For those who Think Paul taught Sola Fide

[Standing Up]

Peter and Paul most certainly did know the future...they wrote in Scripture!

I already showed him that they knew about their crown. It was ignored.

 

[chestertonrules]

Peter and Paul most certainly did know the future...they wrote in Scripture!

They did not presume to know their eternal destiny.

Phil 3
12Not that I have already obtained all this, or have already been made perfect, but I press on to take hold of that for which Christ Jesus took hold of me. 13Brothers, I do not consider myself yet to have taken hold of it. But one thing I do: Forgetting what is behind and straining toward what is ahead, 14I press on toward the goal to win the prize for which God has called me heavenward in Christ Jesus.

1 Cor 9:27
No, I beat my body and make it my slave so that after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified for the prize.

1 Peter 1:17
If you address as Father the One who impartially judges according to each one's work, conduct yourselves in fear during the time of your stay on earth;

1 Peter 3:15
but sanctify Christ as Lord in your hearts, always being ready to make a defense to everyone who asks you to give an account for the hope that is in you, yet with gentleness and reverence;

 

[mont974x4]

I already showed him that they knew about their crown. It was ignored.

sadly, the truth usually is ignored around here.

 

[Standing Up]

2 Tim. 4:8 Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing.

Simple for the children.

 

[chestertonrules]

2 Tim. 4:8 Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing.

Simple for the children.

I can only assume that you have no answer for these passages so you are posting something irrelevant.

Phil 3
12Not that I have already obtained all this, or have already been made perfect, but I press on to take hold of that for which Christ Jesus took hold of me. 13Brothers, I do not consider myself yet to have taken hold of it. But one thing I do: Forgetting what is behind and straining toward what is ahead, 14I press on toward the goal to win the prize for which God has called me heavenward in Christ Jesus.

1 Cor 9:27
No, I beat my body and make it my slave so that after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified for the prize.

1 Peter 1:17
If you address as Father the One who impartially judges according to each one's work, conduct yourselves in fear during the time of your stay on earth;

1 Peter 3:15
but sanctify Christ as Lord in your hearts, always being ready to make a defense to everyone who asks you to give an account for the hope that is in you, yet with gentleness and reverence;

 

[Fireinfolding]

Heres the crown and faithfulness

Rev 2:10 Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.

Heres the crown given to those who endureth temptation

James 1:12 Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him.

Heres the crown of righteousness after finishing ones course (and fighting the good fight of faith)

2Titus 4:6 For I am now ready to be offered, and the time of my departure is at hand. I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith: Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing.

And heres where he speaks of "holding fast" to what you have and letting no man take that crown

Rev 3:11 Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown.

 

[ticker]

For those who Think Paul taught Sola Fide

...enjoy the good news.

 

[chestertonrules]

For those who Think Paul taught Sola Fide

...enjoy the good news.

Denial is an unhealthy state. Don't live there.

 

[Rick Otto]

Vatican City is 0.2sq. miles surrounded on all sides by reality.

 

[Rick Otto]

quote=chestertonrules;They did not presume to know their eternal destiny.

The perspicuity of scripture (its plain speech) shivers your timbers & blows you down on this tiny point.

Phil 3
12Not that I have already obtained all this, or have already been made perfect, but I press on to take hold of that for which Christ Jesus took hold of me. 13Brothers, I do not consider myself yet to have taken hold of it. But one thing I do: Forgetting what is behind and straining toward what is ahead, 14I press on toward the goal to win the prize for which God has called me heavenward in Christ Jesus.

Of course the future (even when we KNOW what it is) isn't obtained or taken hold of (in this sense) in the present.

1 Cor 9:27
No, I beat my body and make it my slave so that after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified for the prize.

Sounds like he knows what will happen.

1 Peter 1:17
If you address as Father the One who impartially judges according to each one's work, conduct yourselves in fear during the time of your stay on earth;

...Because we know what happens...

1 Peter 3:15
but sanctify Christ as Lord in your hearts, always being ready to make a defense to everyone who asks you to give an account for the hope that is in you, yet with gentleness and reverence;

Hope is a great way of knowing.

 

[chestertonrules]

Of course the future (even when we KNOW what it is) isn't obtained or taken hold of (in this sense) in the present.

Phil 3
12Not that I have already obtained all this, or have already been made perfect, but I press on to take hold of that for which Christ Jesus took hold of me. 13Brothers, I do not consider myself yet to have taken hold of it. But one thing I do: Forgetting what is behind and straining toward what is ahead, 14I press on toward the goal to win the prize for which God has called me heavenward in Christ Jesus.


Why does he press on? What is he straining for if faith alone is enough?

Sounds like he knows what will happen.

1 Cor 9:27
No, I beat my body and make it my slave so that after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified for the prize.

No, it doesn't.

It sounds like he recognizes that he may be disqualified. You are denying the crystal clear words of scripture. Scripture contradicts your dogma, so you side with your dogma.

That's a strange description of faith alone! Ha!!

...Because we know what happens...

1 Peter 1:17
If you address as Father the One who impartially judges according to each one's work, conduct yourselves in fear during the time of your stay on earth;


What's to fear if we know what's going to happen?

Hope is a great way of knowing.

Hope is irrelevant if you know. Hope is for those who don't know.

It is a virtue.

Presumption is not a virtue.

 

[Fireinfolding]

Now in this particular section (if you read) where God hath called us unto glory and virtue, where we are to "add to" our faith by Peter in the same accord says...

2Peter 1:10 Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:

Which is a good word

 

[ticker]

Denial is an unhealthy state. Don't live there.

That coming from experience Chester?

 

[chestertonrules]

That coming from experience Chester?

Absolutely!!

I denied the truth of the Catholic Church for decades!

 

[Rick Otto]

Absolutely!!

I denied the truth of the Catholic Church for decades!

And Isreal tried to obey the law for centuries.

 

[Standing Up]

And Isreal tried to obey the law for centuries.

Yep, they went from skip Saturday Sabbath and be stoned to skip Sunday Sabbath and go to hell.

And from Priest offering animal sacrifices over and over to Priest offering Jesus Christ again and again.

ADDED:

The alternative is perpetual rest in Christ Jesus, His finished work, His righteousness.

And offer your body a living sacrifice as Priest.

 

[Rick Otto]

quote=chestertonrules; Phil 3
12Not that I have already obtained all this, or have already been made perfect, but I press on to take hold of that for which Christ Jesus took hold of me. 13Brothers, I do not consider myself yet to have taken hold of it. But one thing I do: Forgetting what is behind and straining toward what is ahead, 14I press on toward the goal to win the prize for which God has called me heavenward in Christ Jesus.
Why does he press on? What is he straining for if faith alone is enough?

The "high calling", not salvation.

12: Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.
13: Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before,
14: I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.

He's just saying he doesn't sit on his own coat-tail (the saving faith God gave Him), which is impossible to do, the point of him saying it is rhetorical. He then "forgets about it" as miraculous & relieving as being saved is, and he orients himself forward-looking to great achievements on Christ's behalf; living for Christ.
Having faith, loving God, is enough to know you're saved, but being Christian only starts with being saved.
Pressing on is about justifying your profession (water baptism for example) of that faith, feeding widows & orphans & visiting prisoners, etc., is pressing on for rewards in heaven, even if that just means making God grin a little wider.
For those saved by "co-operative grace" (an oxymoron as far as I can tell), that kind of pressing on is about staying saved, & out of purgatory at least.

1 Cor 9:27
No, "I beat my body and make it my slave so that after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified for the prize."
-- No, it doesn't.
It sounds like he recognizes that he may be disqualified.

It sounds like he knows that he WILL, not that he "may".
If he knows that he may, he only knows what might happen. He would then only have an idea, but not know.
But he absolutely knows what WIll happen.
"Prize"... disqualified for the prize, not for salvation. Salvation is a gift of mercy, not a prize for performance - that is your essentioal cognitive disconnect.

You are denying the crystal clear words of scripture. Scripture contradicts your dogma, so you side with your dogma.

You're having an emotional reation. It's Ok.

That's a strange description of faith alone! Ha!!

It's a brave new world.

1 Peter 1:17
If you address as Father the One who impartially judges according to each one's work, conduct yourselves in fear during the time of your stay on earth;


What's to fear if we know what's going to happen?

It wasn't such a hot button word then, but fear the worst, hope for the best,... what the heck else ya got to do with what your now calling your Christian life? Sin like it doesn't grieve the Holy Spirit? LIke you just realized your eternal life has been handed to you & you could care less?
Was that what your moment of conviction of conscience to fairh was like?
Strange descriptions abound.

Hope is irrelevant if you know. Hope is for those who don't know.

Ever seen the play "Annie"?
Will there be sun tomorrow, Chestertonrules?

It is a virtue.

Faith, Hope & Charity - The Anchor.

Presumption is not a virtue.

Lack of Faith isn't either.

 

[Texan2]

Regarding Paul and Sola Fide: There are times when I enjoy a lively discussion on this 500-year-old debate; other times, it distrubs me, particularly when reading Luke chapter 10. In answer to the lawyer's question on how to gain eternal life, Jesus includes the famous Good Samaritan parable. Here we find a Levite and a Priest traveling. The Gospel doesn't tell us where they are going, but some days I imagine it was to a debate on how they would be saved. Both groups were confident in their knowledge of how God's plan worked. For "Levite" and "Priest" could we substitute "Lutheran" and "Calvinist", or "Catholic" and "Baptist"? If the Samaritan was an "undesirable" outside of their concept of salvation, could we substitute "Buddhist" or "atheist" ? I feel as disturbed at that last one as the lawyer who asked the question probably was with the Samaritan.

The fact is, God saves us by his Grace. If any of us meet Jesus and find heaven is not populated as we expected, are you seriously contemplating tapping Jesus on the shoulder and explaining to him how He didn't understand Paul? Paul was concerned himself when he heard that some where saying "I follow Paul" or "I follow Apollos" (1 Corinthians chapter 3). He pointed to Christ. As for me, I did nothing to "earn" my creation, my birth, or my life. They were gifts from God. Why would I expect to "earn" anything after? I am thankful for my daily bread and try to forgive as I am forgiven. What I try to do, but often fall short, I do not to earn anything, but because my Savior asked "Love one another as I have loved you". Where does that put people like me in this which-came-first-chicken-and-egg faith/works argument? I don't know. I don't think I want to know. It creates an issue dividing the Body of Christ. How is that good?

On a positive note, I've noticed that the most ecumenical events today are in the Pro-Life area. All us Christians go our separate ways on Sunday mornings, but we do come together to speak for those that have no voice. We should get together more often.

May the Peace of Christ be with all of you.