For those who Think Paul taught Sola Fide

[chestertonrules]

As mentioned, this has been countered.

My question is what do you as RC have to lose by agreeing, if only for a week?

It has not been answered. I don't know what you mean by countered.

Why did Paul write these words that directly contradict sola fide?

 

[chestertonrules]

If they could do it which they can't...

These verses describe a hypothetical way to heaven along the path of obedience, just to show that no one can walk them.

Thank you for making an attempt to answer the OP!

However, you are simply inserting your dogma into scripture.

Paul's words are very clear.

 

[chestertonrules]

I asked you awhile ago,after you admitted it is not unto eternal judgment..What is rom 2;6 about?

How about some clarification please,and your analysis of said verse please.

I did not admit that it is not about eternal judgment. It explicitly is:

Romans 2
7To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life.

 

[chestertonrules]

Shake N' Bake soteriology:
"Jesus saved me & I helped!"

Calvinist version:

"Jesus saved me so I don't have to listen to him anymore."

 

[Standing Up]

It has not been answered. I don't know what you mean by countered.

Why did Paul write these words that directly contradict sola fide?

You really haven't a clue what the "other side" is saying to you?

But okay; let's follow your path awhile.

I sinned this morning. I repented this afternoon. If I died at noon, what would happen to me?

Did I get reborn again in the afternoon? Did I need a duly ordained priest saying the right things, sprinkling the right stuff, or what? If I skip mass Sunday and die, what happens?

Please don't answer only God knows. Incidentally you never answered the fact that Peter and Paul did know what would happen to them. How far has it fallen since them?

 

[Standing Up]

Calvinist version:

"Jesus saved me so I don't have to listen to him anymore."

Forget Calvin--remember Jesus, go and sin no more. But if we do, we have an advocate (Jesus Christ, btw).

 

[chestertonrules]

Forget Calvin--remember Jesus, go and sin no more. But if we do, we have an advocate (Jesus Christ, btw).

I agree completely!

 

[chestertonrules]

You really haven't a clue what the "other side" is saying to you?

But okay; let's follow your path awhile.

I sinned this morning. I repented this afternoon. If I died at noon, what would happen to me?

Did I get reborn again in the afternoon? Did I need a duly ordained priest saying the right things, sprinkling the right stuff, or what? If I skip mass Sunday and die, what happens?

Please don't answer only God knows. Incidentally you never answered the fact that Peter and Paul did know what would happen to them. How far has it fallen since them?

God is just and merciful.

I have confidence in his love for me.

How about this.

I sin this morning, I sin this afternoon. I plan to sin tomorrow.

I don't care about disobeying Jesus because I believe in him.

Will I go to heaven if I am killed tomorrow night?

Neither Peter nor Paul claimed to know what would happen in the future. They had faith and hope, but not presumption.

 

[MamaZ]

Calvinist version:

"Jesus saved me so I don't have to listen to him anymore."

This shows you know very little about the subject of calvinist. For only those whom Jesus saved actually have the ears to hear and the eyes to see what He has done for us. Those who are not saved do not even know what the Spirit is saying unto the body of Christ. For they are deaf and blind..

 

[MamaZ]

God is just and merciful.

I have confidence in his love for me.

How about this.

I sin this morning, I sin this afternoon. I plan to sin tomorrow.

I don't care about disobeying Jesus because I believe in him.

Will I go to heaven if I am killed tomorrow night?

Neither Peter nor Paul claimed to know what would happen in the future. They had faith and hope, but not presumption.

You are right they did not have presumption. They had assurance. For let the redeemed of the Lord say so.

 

[MamaZ]

Where is your hope and faith? Is it in I hope I have been faithful enough that God allows me enterance?

 

[chestertonrules]

Where is your hope and faith? Is it in I hope I have been faithful enough that God allows me enterance?

Yes, that is one of my hopes. I hope that I will respond adequately to God's grace.

1 Tim 6:1
Fight the good fight of the faith. Take hold of the eternal life to which you were called when you made your good confession in the presence of many witnesses.

Phil 3:12
Not that I have already obtained it or have already become perfect, but I press on so that I may lay hold of that for which also I was laid hold of by Christ Jesus.

1 Tim 1:19
keeping faith and a good conscience, which some have rejected and suffered shipwreck in regard to their faith.

1 Tim 6:19
storing up for themselves the treasure of a good foundation for the future, so that they may take hold of that which is life indeed.

Rom 8:17
Now if we are children, then we are heirs--heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ, if indeed we share in his sufferings in order that we may also share in his glory.

Col 1:24
Now I rejoice in my sufferings for your sake, and in my flesh I do my share on behalf of His body, which is the church, in filling up what is lacking in Christ's afflictions.

2 Tim 2:12
If we endure, we will also reign with Him; If we deny Him, He also will deny us;

Rev 21:7
"He who overcomes will inherit these things, and I will be his God and he will be My son."

 

[Fireinfolding]

Where is your hope and faith? Is it in I hope I have been faithful enough that God allows me enterance?

Definately our hope and faith is in Christ but being faithful is spoken of alongside that same hope and also around the entrance ministered unto us as well. Heres a few that speak in accord with that same thought.

We stewards of the grace of God

1Peter 4:10 As every man hath received the gift, even so minister the same one to another, as good stewards of the manifold grace of God.

Its required in stewards that they be found faithful

1Cr 4:2 Moreover it is required in stewards, that a man be found faithful.

What the grace of God teaches us as we look for the blessed hope

Titus 2:11-13 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world; Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;

What Paul did while he preached to otherd

1Cr 9:27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.

Heres the entrance (an open door set before thee)

Rev 3:18 I know thy works: behold, I have set before thee an open door, and no man can shut it: for thou hast a little strength, and hast kept my word, and hast not denied my name.

Reading back in Peter the things he is speaking of in giving dilegence to speaks in accord with the entrance "ministered" unto us into the Kingdom

2 Peter 1:10-11 Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall: For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

 

[Yab Yum]

Well that's the deal, no one thinks its pointless. So the question is what is the issue underlying the semantics?

Sacrament. I'll make it broad, rather than an RC deal. Who has what to lose?

We all know faith without works is dead. We all know we are saved by grace through faith. We all know He prepared works.

Simple, really. So, again, who has what to lose by making this an issue? What must I do to be saved? Believe on the one. Then what? Work out your salvation. Go and sin no more. All the verses talking past each other. Why? Who has what to lose if by grace?

I really dunnno. I'd be honestly interested in your opinion re: how it can all hang together, if it indeed can.

 

[Frogster]

I did not admit that it is not about eternal judgment. It explicitly is:

Romans 2
7To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life.

Paul was speaking in generalities in the early part of romans.

Why did the TEACHING consumate,that even though Paul still sinned,in 7,as a christian,he was still sure of future glory,in that no charges can be made to take away our justification,in Rom 8?

Also.finally answer these verses,that numerous members have shown you.

John 3;18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.
And

John 5;24 Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.

You can't just pluck a verse out of a polemic diatribe,and turn it into a doctrine.You must go by the whole of scripture.

 

[chestertonrules]

Paul was speaking in generalities in the early part of romans.

.

What is his general point here?

Romans 2
7To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life.

 

[Standing Up]

Why did he say these things? What do you think he meant?


Romans 2
6God “will give to each person according to what he has done.”7To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life. 8But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger.

What has each person done? Romans 3:23 for all have sinned, and fall short of the glory of God;

Gal 6
7Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. 8The one who sows to please his sinful nature, from that naturea will reap destruction; the one who sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life. 9Let us not become weary in doing good, for at the proper time we will reap a harvest if we do not give up.

Lk. 8:11 Now the parable is this: the seed is the word of God.

Mt. 13:23 "And the one on whom seed was sown on the good soil, this is the man who hears the word and understands it; who indeed bears fruit and brings forth, some a hundredfold, some sixty, and some thirty."

Gal. 6:6-7 The one who is taught the word is to share all good things with the one who teaches him. Do not be deceived, God is not mocked; for whatever a man sows, this he will also reap.

Gal. 5:4 You have been severed from Christ, you who [fn] are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.

 

[mont974x4]

Peter and Paul most certainly did know the future...they wrote in Scripture!

 

[mont974x4]

There is no need to be vague or questioning. God Himself inspired men to let us know we have assurance, we have a true hope in Christ.


1Jn 5:13 These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life.

 

[Standing Up]

I really dunnno. I'd be honestly interested in your opinion re: how it can all hang together, if it indeed can.

1 Cor. 6:11 Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God.

Points of fact. Now we live and sin. What happens next?