For those who think drinking alcohol is a sin...

[Charlie24]

Was that a thinly veiled diss?

I thought it was a question. I meant no disrespect, just curious.

I can't go along with Christians drinking alcohol, but God did give us free will to choose, even if it's not a wise choice.

"Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise." Proverbs 20:1

 

[Blessedj01]

I thought it was a question. I meant no disrespect, just curious.

I can't go along with Christians drinking alcohol, but God did give us free will to choose, even if it's not a wise choice.

"Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise." Proverbs 20:1

You have to be deceived by it to be unwise.

 

[Knee V]

VC is Lutheran, and I don't think they do confession as the CC and OC and others do.

We (the Orthodox) have confession, and I do not confess drinking alcohol. In fact, there is often beer and/or wine (sometimes Scotch, but not often) at our after-Liturgy fellowship meal (at least at my own parish; I can't speak for other parishes). A few years ago at Pascha (Easter) one of our priests was making White Russians in small cups for us (because they were small, the alcohol was equivalent to probably half a shot).

 

[Blessedj01]

Beer and wine at fellowship? I have to come to your church!

...or maybe not since I'm staying off the drink.

Sometimes I think it's highly hypocritical of us to stay totally dry with our Christian friends and then pick up a box when we go to see our 'real' friends.

 

[ViaCrucis]

Do you confess to the priest after drinking alcohol or is alcohol generally accepted in the CC?

As others noted, I'm Lutheran.

Private confession is available, but (also as noted) Confession is a public rite, it's an integral part of our gathered, corporate worship.

No, I don't confess to my pastor after drinking alcohol, because drinking alcohol isn't a sin.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Charlie24]

Give me the old path where I deny the lusts of the flesh that the power of God may guide me in all truth.

 

[Tzaousios]

Give me the old path where I deny the lusts of the flesh that the power of God may guide me in all truth.

"Old path" as in this?

 

[Blessedj01]

No offense, but the people on that twitter page come across as 'nuts'.

 

[Tzaousios]

No offense, but the people on that twitter page come across as 'nuts'.

Indeed. It is one of the main places that I have seen the term "old path(s)" used. Is it an IFB thing?

Admittedly, there are a few parody accounts interspersed with the others. Most of them are real, though.

 

[Charlie24]

"Old path" as in this?

I don't know any of these people you refer to, or what they believe.

My reference to the "old path" is that of traditional Christianity. Back in the day when even drunks admitted drinking was a sin.

 

[Blessedj01]

Seriously, where do you keep on getting this idea that drinking of any kind if a sin?

Of course a "drunk" is going to admit to drinking being sinful, the clue is in the term: drunk.

As said before, if your drinking leads to alcoholism it is most likely sinful.

 

[Charlie24]

Seriously, where do you keep on getting this idea that drinking of any kind if a sin?

Of course a "drunk" is going to admit to drinking being sinful, the clue is in the term: drunk.

As said before, if your drinking leads to alcoholism it is most likely sinful.

As I said before, you can't dabble in what the world has to offer without getting burned. You should know that.

Alcohol is a mind altering drug, you can deny it if you like. No Christian should even be around it let alone using it.

"Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you." 2 Cor. 6:17

 

[Blessedj01]

As I said before, you can't dabble in what the world has to offer without getting burned. You should know that.

Alcohol is a mind altering drug, you can deny it if you like. No Christian should even be around it let alone using it.

"Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you." 2 Cor. 6:17

So I shouldn't dabble around on this laptop either, or CF.com. They come from the world. How do you go around separating what is "of the world" and what is not? What qualifies alcohol as "what the world has to offer" as opposed to caffeine? I'm just not sure where there is a verse that says, "Alcohol is of the world and to be avoided in all circumstances." It's all about your interpretation and it seems you're always choosing one that supports your particular philosophy.

Alcohol is a "mind-altering drug" that Jesus created a whole bunch of when he turned water into wine. He was certainly around it and I'm pretty sure the disciples drank some of it. Hey, didn't Jesus even sip "vinegar" from a sponge? Wouldn't that have been alcoholic to some extent? And where does this arguement about "being around it" really come from? Are you telling me that Christians have to segregate themselves from social occasions? Should I quit my job as a chef? Am I going to burn in hell because I add a little marsala to the livers? How did Jesus apply this philosophy when he went around preaching to sinners with his little gang of 12?

Mark 2:13-17New International Version (NIV)

Jesus Calls Levi and Eats With Sinners

13 Once again Jesus went out beside the lake. A large crowd came to him, and he began to teach them. 14 As he walked along, he saw Levi son of Alphaeus sitting at the tax collector’s booth. “Follow me,” Jesus told him, and Levi got up and followed him.
15 While Jesus was having dinner at Levi’s house, many tax collectors and sinners were eating with him and his disciples, for there were many who followed him. 16 When the teachers of the law who were Pharisees saw him eating with the sinners and tax collectors, they asked his disciples: “Why does he eat with tax collectors and sinners?”
17 On hearing this, Jesus said to them, “It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners.”

And your verse is provided out of context. Here's the real deal:

Or what agreement has the temple of God with idols? For we are the temple of the living God; just as God said, "I WILL DWELL IN THEM AND WALK AMONG THEM; AND I WILL BE THEIR GOD, AND THEY SHALL BE MY PEOPLE. 17"Therefore, COME OUT FROM THEIR MIDST AND BE SEPARATE," says the Lord. "AND DO NOT TOUCH WHAT IS UNCLEAN; And I will welcome you. 18"

I see a verse about idols, not a verse about alcohol.

 

[Blessedj01]

I get that alcohol can be destructive for some people. I do understand that over-consumption is harmful.

...what I don't get, is an argument against half a glass of pino with your steak dinner.

...what I don't get, is a rally against a pint of beer on your birthday.

...what I don't understand, is how Jesus could have sipped wine and broken bread and taught this in remembrance of him, if wine (or alcohol) was always to be avoided.

I don't get how a culture that preserved water by turning it into vinegar could have survived on such a legalistic principle and I don't get how sensible consumption of alcohol equates to drunkenness and sin.

You know, child birth is sinful too right. You know that right? Because it isn't perfect. It changed under God's curse. That doesn't mean it's wrong and that no-one should give birth any more.

You have to comprehend...we are in this world but we are not of it. We can partake in a little consumption of alcohol if our convictions allow it. They may not and that's no problem. But to start a crusade against all Christians tasting alcohol on their lips is not only silly but it's a waste of time you could be spending preaching something useful.

 

[Tzaousios]

I don't know any of these people you refer to, or what they believe.

My reference to the "old path" is that of traditional Christianity. Back in the day when even drunks admitted drinking was a sin.

Okay, but reflect upon why many Baptists believe in uncompromising teetotalism.

The growth of the Baptist denomination, especially in the southern United States, is intimately tied to the temperance movement that began in England in the mid nineteenth century. Temperance was a reaction to vices (alcoholism, child labor, spousal abuse, etc.) that had proliferated due to terrible working conditions in industrialized cities in England.

Eventually this movement arrived state-side and became popular in industrialized cities of the north, as well as in coal mining and textile manufacturing areas of the south.

The question becomes, is this an antiquated movement that has served its purpose and become anachronistic to present day contexts? Is strict teetotalism a requirement to which all Baptists should adhere? Why, because Bible says to do so, because Jesus and the Apostles were teetotalers, or because it is what Baptists have always done?

 

[Blessedj01]

Okay, but reflect upon why many Baptists believe in uncompromising teetotalism.

The growth of the Baptist denomination, especially in the southern United States, is intimately tied to the temperance movement that began in England in the mid nineteenth century. Temperance was a reaction to vices (alcoholism, child labor, spousal abuse, etc.) that had proliferated due to terrible working conditions in industrialized cities in England.

Eventually this movement arrived state-side and became popular in industrialized cities of the north, as well as in coal mining and textile manufacturing areas of the south.

The question becomes, is this an antiquated movement that has served its purpose and become anachronistic to present day contexts? Is strict teetotalism a requirement to which all Baptists should adhere? Why, because Bible says to do so, because Jesus and the Apostles were teetotalers, or because it is what Baptists have always done?

I for one have never been preached complete abstinence in any Baptist church I have attended.

 

[Charlie24]

I get that alcohol can be destructive for some people. I do understand that over-consumption is harmful.

...what I don't get, is an argument against half a glass of pino with your steak dinner.

...what I don't get, is a rally against a pint of beer on your birthday.

...what I don't understand, is how Jesus could have sipped wine and broken bread and taught this in remembrance of him, if wine (or alcohol) was always to be avoided.

I don't get how a culture that preserved water by turning it into vinegar could have survived on such a legalistic principle and I don't get how sensible consumption of alcohol equates to drunkenness and sin.

You know, child birth is sinful too right. You know that right? Because it isn't perfect. It changed under God's curse. That doesn't mean it's wrong and that no-one should give birth any more.

You have to comprehend...we are in this world but we are not of it. We can partake in a little consumption of alcohol if our convictions allow it. They may not and that's no problem. But to start a crusade against all Christians tasting alcohol on their lips is not only silly but it's a waste of time you could be spending preaching something useful.

Before I was saved I went out to the bars every weekend and drank whiskey, I never cared for wine or beer. I never thought I was doing anything wrong, it was just part of my life (my idol). All my friends drank, had parties with every kind of alcohol imaginable. You name it, it was there.

I went to church one Sunday morning with a hangover because it was my Moms birthday and she would have nothing but for me to come to Church with her. I was forever changed that morning. For the first time in my life I realized I was a sinner, it was my sin that hung Christ on that cross. But yet He loved me and gave His life that I might live.

Sin will take you further than you want to go, and keep you longer than you want to stay. I also thought, just one shot and that's all. That's not the way it works my friend. If you accept alcohol in your life it will take the second, third and fourth shots to satisfy. Satan will see to it, he's not called the god of this world for nothing. Give him an inch and he will take you where you never thought possible.

But you say that can't happen to me. Along with millions of others I said the same thing. Only by the grace of God and my mothers prayers did I escape the snare of satan. It all began with alcohol. It's not just God that has a plan for your life, satan has one too. Give him just a little and he'll take you there.

 

[Tzaousios]

I for one have never been preached complete abstinence in any Baptist church I have attended.

Certainly, but one does encounter individual Baptist congregations that preach total abstinence. Perhaps there are even entire denominations that do so, such as the IFB.

 

[Tzaousios]

But you say that can't happen to me. Along with millions of others I said the same thing. Only by the grace of God and my mothers prayers did I escape the snare of satan. It all began with alcohol. It's not just God that has a plan for your life, satan has one too. Give him just a little and he'll take you there.

Indeed, Christians should consider the evils of addiction and steer clear of them by the grace of God. Alcoholism is only one of the innumerable addictions. Not everyone harbors a susceptibility to the same vice. "Give him just a little and he'll take you there" would seem to me to operate on a Slippery Slope Fallacy.

 

[Charlie24]

Okay, but reflect upon why many Baptists believe in uncompromising teetotalism.

The growth of the Baptist denomination, especially in the southern United States, is intimately tied to the temperance movement that began in England in the mid nineteenth century. Temperance was a reaction to vices (alcoholism, child labor, spousal abuse, etc.) that had proliferated due to terrible working conditions in industrialized cities in England.

Eventually this movement arrived state-side and became popular in industrialized cities of the north, as well as in coal mining and textile manufacturing areas of the south.

The question becomes, is this an antiquated movement that has served its purpose and become anachronistic to present day contexts? Is strict teetotalism a requirement to which all Baptists should adhere? Why, because Bible says to do so, because Jesus and the Apostles were teetotalers, or because it is what Baptists have always done?

It may be politically incorrect but I don't care for church history or religion for that matter. It seems to find itself twisted along a narrow road.

I'm considered by many to be an independant Baptist that believes in Jesus Christ and Him crucified. Actually I don't have a religion, as religion is man made. I have a relationship with Christ.