For the sake of argument, let's say God exists

[Inan3]

He never said anything to me. If he had, I probably would have a cross above my posts instead of a stylish grey brain.

Oh, I thought that was an EMPTY "black" brain. No offense to you.

 

[Inan3]

He never said anything to me. If he had, I probably would have a cross above my posts instead of a stylish grey brain.

Oh, and He probably has spoken to you and you just dismissed it as foolishness or your own thoughts. You see, God is a Spirit and He speaks to us via our spirits and it sounds like our thoughts, after a while you begin to discern the difference. Thoughts come via the spirit and soul and the brain helps us express them.

 

[Hespera]

Oh it doesn't end!!! I cannot believe your over indulgence of yourself!! It is so sad!! So sad!! You must be careful for in another life you will probably come back as a dirt eating, trailer trash foraging, WORM just to teach you to be humble because you sure are not learning it in this life. Be humble little worm be humble!!

I don't resent you but I feel sorry for you, Hespera.

People in the trailer park never resent it when someone younger better looking and more educated drives by in her Lexus.

Instead, they say, someday you will be reincarnated and be just like me, and I will be the one with the nice car.

I wondered for a bit why it was that after saying you'd be proud to be my friend, the very next thing i heard from you was dripping with snarkism and bitterness.

Do you think you could explain it?

 

[CaliforniaSun]

Oh, I thought that was an EMPTY "black" brain. No offense to you.

I take it to represent one who uses their brain. No offense to you.

 

[Ar Cosc]

Oh, and He probably has spoken to you and you just dismissed it as foolishness or your own thoughts. You see, God is a Spirit and He speaks to us via our spirits and it sounds like our thoughts, after a while you begin to discern the difference. Thoughts come via the spirit and soul and the brain helps us express them.

I've had no experience of this. It goes back to the central point of this thread, which we've diverged from quite a bit, we all have our inner voice. Every culture attributes it to different spirits and deities. What evidence is there that it is one particular Middle-Eastern God, and not Native American earth spirits, or our ancestors guiding us? Or that it's just not a natural process of our brains.

IF that be the case why doesn't the doctor say you have 10% chance of living. Why TAKE AWAY the hope? That doesn't make any sense. That is just someone trying to diminish the FACT that when a person turns to God and they ARE MIRACULOUSLY healed, (sometimes instantaneously) it demonstrates the reality of GOD.

I don't know, I'm not a doctor, and I'm not even sure if this is a common practise, I'm just referencing someone from another thread. And as other people have said, there is no evidence that prayer works. There is a certain rate of spontaneous remission in diseases, and it stays the same whether someone is prayed for or not.

This reasoning only demonstrates the FACT that men CHOOSE to believe. They would CHOOSE to believe a lie rather than to believe in God. That is a made up lie with no statistics behind it. You have drawn something out of a hat to disprove the miraculous.

I chose nothing. I tried really hard to believe in Jesus, as all of my friends and family were christians, and I'd been taught for years that all of it was true. I literally couldn't choose to believe in your God, and more than you could make the decision to snap your fingers and sincerely believe in Vishnu.

That is how many of the conclusions are made "someone says something, then someone passes it along who likes it and thinks it "fits" in with what they want to conclude and so they pass it on and the next someone passes it along and pretty soon someone is drawing a picture and saying this is how it is and the next person sees that beautiful picture and says this should be in a science book and then a group of someones says, "hey this can fly let's do a few tests on this and see how many doctors we can find who do this" and then when they find a few they conclude it as a FACT and then they write a paper on it and it gets in the news and then the public finds out and the multitudes start to believe it and it gets copied and pasted all over the web and then someone comes on to search a little because they want to see if it is true and they are inundated with so many articles which say it is so, that they say, "SEE it is true. I saw it on Wikipedia" and they begin to disbelieve the truth and say "IT is false, just go to Wikipedia and read it" Pretty soon whole generations are following, at best, a misunderstanding of the facts. That is what I see. People just accepting conclusions without verifying or researching and in most case NOT being able to verify because there is no longer any of the ORIGINAL testing but only EVIDENCE so called, that has been tainted, dressed up and packaged to sell. Whenever anyone tries to show something different they are pounced upon and labeled as LIARS, IDIOTS, CRIMINALS and they are shunned by their peers. THUS very few dare to "rock the boat" or go against the flow, fearing their own livelihood and careers. So 'tis better to shut up and accept what EVERYBODY else believes and keep your buddies, when deep inside you KNOW something is wrong with the scenarios out there but you suppress and eventually you begin to believe it yourself and doubt all your doubts. OR as in some cases just blindly accepting and never questioning.

This is a completely inaccurate characterisation of science. Of course, we have to accept some things on faith, and assume other people have done their job properly, but it makes no sense to reinvent the wheel every time you want to design a car.

Why try so hard NOT to believe in a loving God who WANTS to heal people? He has only ONE requirement that you believe Him and what He has done for you. What is so wrong with that? I don't get it.

I have said this twice now, but I didn't try not to believe. I have looked at the evidence, and drawn the conclusion most logical to me from it; God doesn't exist, and even if he does, he's done nothing for me. Even if there was convincing evidence for God's existence, I think it would be very hard to worship an entity who would allow billions of good people to be tortured for eternity just for picking the wrong religion.

 

[Inan3]

People in the trailer park never resent it when someone younger better looking and more educated drives by in her Lexus.

Instead, they say, someday you will be reincarnated and be just like me, and I will be the one with the nice car.

I wondered for a bit why it was that after saying you'd be proud to be my friend, the very next thing i heard from you was dripping with snarkism and bitterness.

Do you think you could explain it?

I still would be proud to be your friend, Hespera, but it has nothing to do with your education, or your good looks (which I have no idea what you look like nor do I care what you look like), or a Lexus. It is because I like people regardless of their looks, class or their education AND because I think you need a friend. Perhaps when you PM'd me and asked me to be your friend you had a different idea of friendship than I did. My friends know that I am one who will love them and still tell them when I don't agree with them. As I told you before I go by what the scriptures say and I will share them below. IF you still want me to be your friend knowing THAT, then I would be proud to be your friend. If not, then just let me know and bygones will be bygones. How does that sound to you?

Pro 27:5 Open rebuke is better than secret love.
Pro 27:6 Faithful are the wounds of a friend; but the kisses of an enemy are deceitful.

Psa 141:5 Let the righteous smite me; it shall be a kindness: and let him reprove me; it shall be an excellent oil, which shall not break my head: for yet my prayer also shall be in their calamities.

Pro 9:8 Reprove not a scorner, lest he hate thee: rebuke a wise man, and he will love thee.
Pro 9:9 Give instruction to a wise man, and he will be yet wiser: teach a just man, and he will increase in learning.

Rev 3:19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.

Pro 17:17 A friend loveth at all times, and a brother is born for adversity.

One thing you can know, Hespera, is that if I become your friend I will always love you regardless. That's the choice I make.

 

[Cabal]

I can't believe you can't tell the difference.

Your cutsie post made it sound like a person can pray to a log, and the log respond with YES, NO, or WAIT.

If you disagree, go back and read it again.

The outcome of the prayer is regarded as an answer. The attribution to a deity is all done by the believer. It's as meaningful as attributing it to anything, like a log, based purely on the outcome, especially when you've rigged it so that any outcome counts as an answer. When that's all you're doing, in practice you don't receive a response from a log any more than you receive a response from the deity you claim to believe in.

 

[Hespera]

I still would be proud to be your friend, Hespera, but it has nothing to do with your education, or your good looks (which I have no idea what you look like nor do I care what you look like), or a Lexus. It is because I like people regardless of their looks, class or their education AND because I think you need a friend. Perhaps when you PM'd me and asked me to be your friend As I told you before I go by what the scriptures say and I will share them below. IF you still want me to be your friend knowing THAT, then I would be proud to be your friend. If not, then just let me know and bygones will be bygones. How does that sound to you?

Pro 27:5 Open rebuke is better than secret love.
Pro 27:6 Faithful are the wounds of a friend; but the kisses of an enemy are deceitful.

Psa 141:5 Let the righteous smite me; it shall be a kindness: and let him reprove me; it shall be an excellent oil, which shall not break my head: for yet my prayer also shall be in their calamities.

Pro 9:8 Reprove not a scorner, lest he hate thee: rebuke a wise man, and he will love thee.
Pro 9:9 Give instruction to a wise man, and he will be yet wiser: teach a just man, and he will increase in learning.

Rev 3:19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.

Pro 17:17 A friend loveth at all times, and a brother is born for adversity.

One thing you can know, Hespera, is that if I become your friend I will always love you regardless. That's the choice I make.

.

you had a different idea of friendship than I did. My friends know that I am one who will love them and still tell them when I don't agree with them.

Maybe, and maybe I think of different ways of expressing it.

I still dont know why you turned on me the way you did, but
I dont have the least problem with bygones.

Nor being friends with anyone i respect, regardless of anything else about them.

Sorry about the lexus bit, thats not like me.

 

[sandwiches]

regarding amputees, the bible teaches throughout that even forgiveness and remission of sins doesn't trump consequences. god can forgive a wife beater who has repented and made ammends with those whom he's offended, but its up to the ex-wife whether or not she'll return to him; god won't intervene in this matter and makes no promise of it. same with consequences where limbs are lost. but we have medicine for this. guys running faster than me with their robolegs. people who say they won't believe in god because there are amputees still around are asking god to be the same fairy godmother they claim christians are at fault for when these make similar claims. next it'll be "baldness=no god".

You missed the point and made excuses for God. God supposedly heals all kinds of ailments, such as cancer, all the time through miracles. But curiously, he never heals amputees. Ever.

He removes tumors, keeps people from dying from heart attacks or strokes, removes infections, etc but he never heals an amputee. Why would he heal everything else that we know has natural methods for automatic remission or self-healing but he never heals things which aren't known to have natural mechanisms for healing?

 

[Delphiki]

You missed the point and made excuses for God. God supposedly heals all kinds of ailments, such as cancer, all the time through miracles. But curiously, he never heals amputees. Ever.

He removes tumors, keeps people from dying from heart attacks or strokes, removes infections, etc but he never heals an amputee. Why would he heal everything else that we know has natural methods for automatic remission or self-healing but he never heals things which aren't known to have natural mechanisms for healing?

Giving Joe Bonham his limbs would be visible and just too straightforward. It's better that God only cures ailments that aren't readily visible. It keeps it all part of the mystery.

 

[HosannaHM]

Looks like we got some name calling, a God vs. Conscience discussion, Amputees and Healing, and a Old woman fighting a young woman. What a thread!

Lions and tigers and Bears!

 

[Hespera]

Looks like we got some name calling, a God vs. Conscience discussion, Amputees and Healing, and a Old woman fighting a young woman. What a thread!

Lions and tigers and Bears!

So i was fighting! Ya want ta make something outta it, bud?

 

[Ar Cosc]

So i was fighting! Ya want ta make something outta it, bud?

I thought you'd be more offended that he called you an old woman!

 

[Inan3]

I think you have the wrong one here AC, You better be careful, you'll get yourself in trouble. "I'm the not so "old woman." Ha ha!

 

[HosannaHM]

So i was fighting! Ya want ta make something outta it, bud?

Ahh nooo I don't wanna get in the middle of that with you cycling up mountains all the time you'd whoop me!

 

[HosannaHM]

I thought you'd be more offended that he called you an old woman!

LOL that's great

 

[HosannaHM]

I think you have the wrong one here AC, You better be careful, you'll get yourself in trouble. "I'm the not so "old woman." Ha ha!

Errr.... I guess your only as old as you feel?!

My bad!

 

[Inan3]

.

you had a different idea of friendship than I did. My friends know that I am one who will love them and still tell them when I don't agree with them.

Maybe, and maybe I think of different ways of expressing it.

I still dont know why you turned on me the way you did, but
I dont have the least problem with bygones.

Nor being friends with anyone i respect, regardless of anything else about them.

Sorry about the lexus bit, thats not like me.

Hespera, I think it was you who started the whole thing. I was talking with someone else and you entered the conversations and then you became condescending and a little full of yourself. Not trying to be cruel or vicious here but that's where it started. I have added the posts for you to see for yourself. I even think I missed a few.

So it is no longer survival of the fittest?

Please don't answer this ... I already know the answer.

What made you think it ever was?

And if you know the answer to your own Q please tell me.

Well, we both know you think you know the answer to your own question, Hespera. (Here I believe you thought I did not really know the answer)

At one time Darwin USED that term "survival of the fitest" regarding natural selection but later it was rejected when it didn't fit exactly true to form.

Once again science has their own "adaptations" of the English language to "fix" the errors of the past. That's the only way they can get people to accept what they promote. Lots of little bandaids that they hope no one looks at... and for the most part most don't. They just bow down to the gods of science and say ... yes, of course, we can see it (especially when you give us such meaningful pictures with your explanations), praise be to the gods of science... the Darwinians Ha Ha Ha. I am so funny it amazes me.

That is very unlikely given your demonstrated lack of knowledge of science.


Once again science has their own "adaptations" of the English language to "fix" the errors of the pas

Lets see. There is no 'adaptation" of the English language to fix errors, except in your imagination. Meaningless criticism.


What a completely weird thing to say. Nothing in science is anything but silly word games, to you?

Like I said about MK, a criticism or attempt to belittle has no sting if it is completely off. What a strange version of life you have!

There is no bowing, and no gods. So again, meaningless.


a non existent group, other than the residents of Darwin Australia.

I have many times observed that those who choose to reject ecolution, always for preconceived religious reasons, have lo and many a strawman to savage. "Darwinian / gods" for example.

Of course, not a solitary one of them has ever, can ever come up with a single actual fact that would contradict evolution.

IF it were false, that should be a cinch, not that it would a craationist who came up with the data.

Since the theory is impregnable to any facts ever detected, it leaves
saying "
as a wet noodle with which to lash about.

What would be your falsifiable theory as to why nobody has ever been able to uncover any contrary data?

Oh, thank you queen Hespera but I suggest YOU are the one who needs reflection and by that I don't mean looking at your marvelous self in the mirror all day!! And "welcome me back"... to what??? You never really wanted to have a friend, even though 'twas YOU who came abeggin me to be your friend and not I to you. I responded in a friendly manner because I truly would be your friend if you actually wanted to be. But You knew I was suspicious of you from the beginning because I told you I told you I was. You did notice that I didn't share any personal things with you like YOU wanted me to, didn't you? Didn't that tell you anything? Probably not because you are so full of yourself.

You know what is sad it the people like you who are still deep trailer park, in a world that has left them behind.

You live in a cultural / intellectual backwash.

You dont know, I'm sure, but the world is crowded with very smart, ambitious well educated people who wont have the least sentiment about running over the people who cant keep up.

You seem to lack the capacity to discuss an actual issue, is that the reason for your stereotyping insults (typical atheist rhetoric, etc) and of course, making up so many things about other people with which to try to put them down? (you may want to consult your book on 'bearing false witness", btw i understand it is frowned upon. So why do you do it so freely?)

HERE IT IS!!! Ha ha!! I have hit the button!!! The truth is really revealed about Hespera here. I suppose you group yourself in with those "very smart, ambitious, well educated people who wont have the least sentiment about running over the people who cant keep up." And it is probably trailer trash like me who you don't mind running over. Out comes the BIGOTRY!!! Loud and clear!!!

As far as, lacking the capacity to discuss an actual issue, I really haven't seen you doing that much yourself. You are just fooling yourself into thinking you do. I have never lied. Everything I have said is true. If it was worth it to me (but it is not) I could go through all your insignificant posts and insulting posts and bigoted posts and post them here. You may think you are running over people but Hespera you are only running over yourself!!

Well honestly a person who just makes ugly things up, and then claims, "I never lie". Or , piously, I speak the truth in love

What on earth does she think lying is.

People choose the god that suits their personality, a lot of them like the lord of self righteousness best.

 

[Inan3]

Errr.... I guess your only as old as you feel?!

My bad!

I don't mind when I was your age I would have thought the same way. Now, I know I would never want to be that age again. I like where I am at. Thanks anyway... I'm ok with it.

 

[Inan3]

I thought you'd be more offended that he called you an old woman!

Wrong lady. It's not Hespera who is the "older woman." Ha ha!