For the sake of argument, let's say God exists

[Lion Hearted Man]

Show me one place that I said you were NOT sincere with your beliefs. Just because you "think" someone is saying something does not mean they are. That's where deception comes in.

I don't feel like rummaging through your posts, but you denied that I had a "real relationship" with Jesus. I believed, when I was a Christian, that I did have a "real relationship" with Jesus.

First of all I never said the universe was created in 6 days. Quite frankly, I do not believe that and I do not believe the scriptures teach that so ... wrong again. And I do believe we have a common ancester ... It was Adam. There is no evidence of any other thing.

It's been a while since biology class, huh? Humans are primates, and are related to all other life on this planet. We evolved, just like everything else.

Just as you have stated what you believe above... I have EVERY right to NOT believe what you believe. Just because I do not, and because I believe something different does not mean I am "scaremongering" or immoral. IF you are scared by ANYTHING I say, I suggest it is in your own heart and NOT what I said. I state what I believe to be the truth and no amount of YOUR criticizing me or ANYONE ELSE on this forum, for that matter, is going to make me back down OR feel guilty. I believe what I believe and I have EVERY RIGHT to state it. So BACKOFF on your own self-righteous behavior!!

I'm just stating my opinions, which I am allowed to do. And I am not scared at all by your words. I was just pointing out how you like to say "repent before it's too late", implying that something terrible will happen to me if I don't reconvert.

Oh please... that's another thing you guys deceive yourselves in, talk about sick and tired... you scientists and doctors who think you are making patients' lives better. One thing that happens by the time you get to the blessed age of 62, is you get to go around the block a couple of times and find out a few things. What I have seen in my SIXTY-TWO YEARS is that OFTEN TIMES, and I mean OFTEN, doctors and all the DRUGS that people have been duped into believing they need, have done more DAMAGE to society than good. "Some" of you might start out with the lofty ideals to help people, but as time goes by you fall into the same old same old and just want to make money and get all those drug company bonuses, and those promotion which come with all that coveted recognition. So since you neglected to mention it I thought I would.. what about all those people who have been KILLED or maimed for life by so called science? You neglect to tell of that in your self exhaltation.

Wrong again. The only vaccination I got was for polio, and I was a child and it wasn't for sure, that I would get it even if I didn't get that vaccination. I don't use anitbiotics because of the damage they do to your body and besides that, I don't get sick! I suggest you don't bet because you would lose. I have none of those diseases and if I did I wouldn't take the drugs that counter work with my body just because some doctor was paid by the drug companies a bonus for suggesting I take something, in order that they can "try it out" on me and see if it works... AND AND AND then leave me with a hoarde of side affects that I have to take more drugs (to pay scientists wages) hoping to overcome them, until one day I end up in the grave because of all the toxins and poisons they've pushed down our throats!!

No, I thank God He is Jehovah Rapha, the Lord that heals me, and also, the life which He generates to me by His Spirit resident within me. Just a couple of the many benefits of His great salvation.

Ah, so you're anti-medicine too. This is a road we best not go down. There is too much ignorance here for one conversation to rectify.

Let me tell you this ... man couldn't think his way out of a paper bag if it wasn't for God. Any vaccine or ANY good thing comes down from God. Man wouldn't even have an understanding of the smallest amount of science if it were not for God.

People like you can't even be reasoned with. You're not even wrong. What you're saying is so far from reality that it cannot be dignified with a "you're wrong" response.

Did you ever hear of "wolves in sheep clothing"? or that "satan himself can transform into an angel of light???

No ELDER of the church or PASTOR or "WHATEVAAAA" is worth their salt or their position IF they are maligning the truth and siding up with the world in IT'S interrpretation of the scriptures or how they came about. That's all I have to say about that. I certainly am not going to worry about it. God is the judge and "by THEIR words they shall be justified and by THEIR words they shall be condemned."

Glad to see that you are now not just denying my sincerity, but the sincerity of people you have never interacted with. It must be lonely on the top with just you, AV, and God.

The Epic of Gilgamesh is just a confirmation of what the Bible says (not that it needed one).... written in the same time period as the scriptures. The authors of Genesis didn't need to "rip off" the flood story from a poem. Where do you think they got it from the internet? They probably didn't even know it was written. Although, the Bible does mention Gilgamesh but under the name of Nimrod.

The Epic of Gilgamesh was the single most important literary work of the era. If the Abrahamic people were unaware of it, they must have been illiterate dolts.

At best "some" suggest that there are similarities but I don't find it that way at all. What I suggest to you is that God had just delivered the Israelites from Egypt. Every plague was an affront to the Egyptian gods and I might add, God blew them out of the water!!! The Ten Commandments were given to the Israelites shortly AFTER their exodus from Egypt. IF, and I stress "IF", there is ANY similarity to "some" of the wordings in ANY Egyptian writings then it would be to make it clear to the Israelites (because they had been there so long) just what God's commands were in regards to them. Just take the first of the 10 commandments... it says THOU SHALT NOT HAVE ANY GODS BEFORE ME!!! This attacks the very first one in the list of the Book of the Dead!! It is an apparent slap in the face to that document by GOD!!!

Well, there is no evidence the exodus story was real. So let's just leave it at that.

Finally, IF it were the decision of the "authors of Genesis" only (as you suggest) why would they take hold of some list on an obscure document and then slam Egypt all through the rest of Genesis? That doesn't even make sense.

"Obscure" document? This was the document that dictated the rules of the Egyptian religion. Genesis and Exodus were written waaaayyy after the supposed events by the way.

Don't hold your breath... You either come God's way or you don't get there.

Translation: your way, not God's way. Funny how you have the audacity to speak for God.

Your words speak so loud I can't hear what you are saying. But it's okay with me. I've done my part. Enough said!!

Let's consider this conversation complete! You turned out to be way more angry and antagonistic than I expected.

 

[sandwiches]

So it's just whatever the Bible says?

No. The Bible never mentions dispensations. It's a relatively new invention to try to make sense of some of the biggest plot holes in the Bible.

 

[Nathan Poe]

When you attempt to call something bronze age superstition, think of writing a book on magnetic fields today, then a man uncovers it 2000 years from now, and another man is throwing a fit about how "ignorant" the writers were. And why stop at the bronze age? I'm sure you can go further back than that.

Were magnetic fields mentioned in the Bible, or is this a red herring?

 

[Lion Hearted Man]

They were not under the law until the commandments. So they werent accountable.
Deuteronomy 22 compares rape with death

Only if the person you raped is married already. If you rape a virgin, you have to marry her. Isn't that nice for the person who got raped? To marry her rapist?

Deuteronomy 22:25-29

25But if a man find a betrothed damsel in the field, and the man force her, and lie with her: then the man only that lay with her shall die. 26But unto the damsel thou shalt do nothing; there is in the damsel no sin worthy of death: for as when a man riseth against his neighbour, and slayeth him, even so is this matter:
27For he found her in the field, and the betrothed damsel cried, and there was none to save her.
28If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, which is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found;
29Then the man that lay with her shall give unto the damsel's father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife; because he hath humbled her, he may not put her away all his days.

 

[sandwiches]

They were not under the law until the commandments. So they werent accountable.
Deuteronomy 22 compares rape with death

He's not asking about accountability. He's asking whether it was moral.

Was it moral, at some point in the past, to have incestuous relationships or to rape, yes or no?

 

[Greg1234]

Were magnetic fields mentioned in the Bible, or is this a red herring?

You'll get it

 

[Lion Hearted Man]

No. The Bible never mentions dispensations. It's a relatively new invention to try to make sense of some of the biggest plot holes in the Bible.

Yeah, dispensationalism is not a Biblical concept. I was just trying to get AV to admit that he believes morality is exclusively based on the Bible, irrespective to dispensationalism.

 

[Lion Hearted Man]

He's not asking about accountability. He's asking whether it was moral.

Was it moral, at some point in the past, to have incestuous relationships or to rape, yes or no?

And as I posted, the rest of the verse takes a dark, twisted turn. Funny how people quote the first part of that chapter without any reference to the "marry-your-rapist" part.

 

[Nathan Poe]

He's not asking about accountability. He's asking whether it was moral.

Was it moral, at some point in the past, to have incestuous relationships or to rape, yes or no?

Don't know about incest, but when God orders rape, it's immoral not to, isn't it?

 

[Upisoft]

They were not under the law until the commandments. So they werent accountable.
Deuteronomy 22 compares rape with death

Where?

23 If a man happens to meet in a town a virgin pledged to be married and he sleeps with her,
24 you shall take both of them to the gate of that town and stone them to death—the young woman because she was in a town and did not scream for help, and the man because he violated another man’s wife. You must purge the evil from among you.
25 But if out in the country a man happens to meet a young woman pledged to be married and rapes her, only the man who has done this shall die.
26 Do nothing to the woman; she has committed no sin deserving death. This case is like that of someone who attacks and murders a neighbor,
27 for the man found the young woman out in the country, and though the betrothed woman screamed, there was no one to rescue her.
28 If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not pledged to be married and rapes her and they are discovered, 29 he shall pay her father fifty shekels of silver. He must marry the young woman, for he has violated her. He can never divorce her as long as he lives.

 

[AV1611VET]

Let me tell you this ... man couldn't think his way out of a paper bag if it wasn't for God. Any vaccine or ANY good thing comes down from God. Man wouldn't even have an understanding of the smallest amount of science if it were not for God.

 

[Nathan Poe]

You'll get it

Not from you, apparantly.

 

[AV1611VET]

Yeah, dispensationalism is not a Biblical concept. I was just trying to get AV to admit that he believes morality is exclusively based on the Bible, irrespective to dispensationalism.

For the record:

Romans 2:14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:

And also for the record:

You and I operate under two completely working definitions of morality; so much so, as to render any discussions containing morality nebulous.

 

[HosannaHM]

Only if the person you raped is married already. If you rape a virgin, you have to marry her. Isn't that nice for the person who got raped? To marry her rapist?

Deuteronomy 22:25-29

25But if a man find a betrothed damsel in the field, and the man force her, and lie with her: then the man only that lay with her shall die. 26But unto the damsel thou shalt do nothing; there is in the damsel no sin worthy of death: for as when a man riseth against his neighbour, and slayeth him, even so is this matter:
27For he found her in the field, and the betrothed damsel cried, and there was none to save her.
28If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, which is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found;
29Then the man that lay with her shall give unto the damsel's father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife; because he hath humbled her, he may not put her away all his days.

Like Greg said we are under the new covenant through Christ. If I wanted to refute what your saying I could simply say Jesus did not do it, so I shouldn't. He said to flee sexual immorality on several verses.

Old testament laws impossible of being kept- rectified by the new covenant of Christ

 

[Inan3]

For the record:

Romans 2:14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:

And also for the record:

You and I operate under two completely working definitions of morality; so much so, as to render any discussions containing morality nebulous.

"hoorah" Ha ha!!

 

[HosannaHM]

Just wondering Lion heart, where does your sense of morality come from?

 

[Nathan Poe]

For the record:

Romans 2:14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:

For the record: You're babbling.

And also for the record:

You and I operate under two completely working definitions of morality; so much so, as to render any discussions containing morality nebulous.

I would very much like to see your "working" defintion of morality before I accept that without a grain of salt.

 

[Upisoft]

Just wondering Lion heart, where does your sense of morality come from?

Usually it comes form your parents and the experience you had during your life.

 

[HosannaHM]

Usually it comes form your parents and the experience you had during your life.

True! But what if we stemmed it all the way back to the first man?

Would he not take it upon himself to figure out what was moral, or would he just instinctively know? (Not that your gonna call him up and ask him lol)

 

[Upisoft]

True! But what if we stemmed it all the way back to the first man?

If you suppose there was such thing as "first man", you can conclude pretty much everything.