For the sake of argument, let's say God exists

[AV1611VET]

Yes, we, who believe in evolution, know that we didn't arise from incest... But you, a creationist, should believe that, since we all came from only two humans... At some point, there had to be incest for the human race to persist...

Incest is a crime -- prior to its prohibition, there was no such thing as incest.

 

[Lion Hearted Man]

Creation is integrated with the rest of texts. What's funny is the way materialists think they can jump over a Creation and attempt to give explanations of relevance on religion they base on a materialistic beginning.

What's funny is when people who believe in magic think they can jump over scientific principles and destroy science by simply calling rational people antiquated terms from Philosophy 101.

 

[Lion Hearted Man]

Incest is a crime -- prior to its prohibition, there was no such thing as incest.

So you'd be cool with it if there were no laws on the books?

 

[Ar Cosc]

Incest is a crime -- prior to its prohibition, there was no such thing as incest.

What happened to absolute morality?

 

[Nathan Poe]

Incest is a crime -- prior to its prohibition, there was no such thing as incest.

Typical creationist -- always trying to define away inconvenient realities.

 

[Nathan Poe]

What happened to absolute morality?

It got in AV's way, so it took a hike.

 

[Tomatoman]

Then state how religion "evolves"

Since you ask, religion is a by-product of the way the human mind has evolved. It boils down to 2 or 3 aspects of the way human mind's work. I'll start with the conscience. Conscience is a sense of being watched. This is an evolved check on our behaviour that evolved alongside language. (not too hard to work out why when you remember that passing on your genes is the goal and social reputation and status have a big influence on this.) Self consciousness goes along with it too and is the result of the fact that, with language, other people can talk about you. ("Oh no, everyone will know!" is the worry when you are found out.) This sense of being watched is the basis of what religious people mean when they say they have a relationship with god. They really mean they are having an elaborate conversation with their conscience.

Secondly there is the sense that our consciousness won't end. It isn't too hard to see why. Imagining one's own extinction isn't going to be a great evolutionary driving force. As we can't imagine a world without us, we instead imagine the world carrying on but with us watching. This all adds up to the beginning of feelings that our consciousness carries on after death, despite all evidence to the contrary.

Third there is the human habit of assigning inanimate objects and events with human causes and personalities (sun gods, gods of rivers, harvests etc, you name it), which is an overflow of our ability to see other humans as 'minds' - which is necessary for socialising in a community using language. Modern children (should) grow out of this habit with education. Primitive tribesman still have the same gods wherever you go in the world.

Add basic animal feelings and emotions into the mix (especially the emotions involved in pair bonding and reproduction) and you have one very confused primitive man. And, hey presto: religion. That's a very cursory potted version of where it came from. There's more, but those are the basic points that occur to me now.

In summary: Religion is a by-product of the evolution of the human mind.

 

[AV1611VET]

So you'd be cool with it if there were no laws on the books?

Let's leave me out of this, eh?

 

[Hespera]

Wait. Inan3 is in her 60s? Good grief. I thought she was a rather dumb teenager, or at a stretch, in her early 20s. That's why I was being patient with her. Blimey.

Huh. That explains a lot. Im feeling kind of dumb I didnt figure it out.

 

[mzungu]

Creation is integrated with the rest of texts. What's funny is the way materialists think they can jump over a Creation and attempt to give explanations of relevance on religion they base on a materialistic beginning.

To you and all your creationist friends who dismiss science in favour of bronze age superstition:

 

[Hespera]

Since you ask, religion is a by-product of the way the human mind has evolved. It boils down to 2 or 3 aspects of the way human mind's work. I'll start with the conscience. Conscience is a sense of being watched. This is an evolved check on our behaviour that evolved alongside language. (not too hard to work out why when you remember that passing on your genes is the goal and social reputation and status have a big influence on this.) Self consciousness goes along with it too and is the result of the fact that, with language, other people can talk about you. ("Oh no, everyone will know!" is the worry when you are found out.) This sense of being watched is the basis of what religious people mean when they say they have a relationship with god. They really mean they are having an elaborate conversation with their conscience.

Secondly there is the sense that our consciousness won't end. It isn't too hard to see why. Imagining one's own extinction isn't going to be a great evolutionary driving force. As we can't imagine a world without us, we instead imagine the world carrying on but with us watching. This all adds up to the beginning of feelings that our consciousness carries on after death, despite all evidence to the contrary.

Third there is the human habit of assigning inanimate objects and events with human causes and personalities (sun gods, gods of rivers, harvests etc, you name it), which is an overflow of our ability to see other humans as 'minds' - which is necessary for socialising in a community using language. Modern children (should) grow out of this habit with education. Primitive tribesman still have the same gods wherever you go in the world.

Add basic animal feelings and emotions into the mix (especially the emotions involved in pair bonding and reproduction) and you have one very confused primitive man. And, hey presto: religion. That's a very cursory potted version of where it came from. There's more, but those are the basic points that occur to me now.

In summary: Religion is a by-product of the evolution of the human mind.

Oh no, everyone will know!" is the worry when you are found out.) This sense of being watched is the basis of what religious people mean when they say they have a relationship with god. They really mean they are having an elaborate conversation with their conscience.

I had not thought of it that way, that a "personal relationship" with "god" is really a personal relationship with ones own conscience.

I have that too, I just dont think of my conscience as a detached entity that happens to also control the universe.

 

[Doveaman]

So you'd be cool with it if there were no laws on the books?

If the survival of our species depended on it Darwinists might be cool with it.

 

[Hespera]

If the survival of our species depended on it Darwin might be cool with it.

Why do theocreologists keep talking about a guy who wrote something 150 years ago? is it coz all your guys are dead, the bible is stuck somewhere before the dark ages even started? Still doing the talking snake / flood bit...

Science didnt stop when any of the early scientists proposed a theory.

 

[Doveaman]

What happened to absolute morality?

Why is incest immoral?

Just asking.

 

[Tomatoman]

Why is incest immoral?

Just asking.

It's genetically bad, so, as usual, you'll find evolution provides the answer.

 

[Hespera]

Why is incest immoral?

Just asking.

It is immoral to do anything that will harm children.

Includes fostering superstitions, btw..

 

[Lion Hearted Man]

Let's leave me out of this, eh?

Why? Because it makes you uncomfortable? Uncomfortable questions reveal the true nature of your morality. It's pointless to discuss what things are right or wrong...the important thing to discuss is why. You give no reasons why, which means your morality is arbitrary.

So why is incest wrong? I have a reason why for me. My morality states that human suffering should be limited. Incest results in an increased risk for suffering of children. Thus it is wrong. So why is incest wrong to you?

Why is incest immoral?

Just asking.

Incest harms the children that are born because inbreeding limits diversity of the genetic information, resulting in greater changes of genetic disease and birth defects.

For example, if my family is full of carriers of cystic fibrosis, if we all started having kids together we could end up with a lot of kids with cystic fibrosis. A humanist's perspective would say that inbreeding causes an unnecessary increase in the risk of suffering in human beings, so it must be avoided.

 

[AV1611VET]

So why is incest wrong?

Again -- you have the wrong dispensation.*

Prior to the Levitical law, which prohibits close marriages, close marriages were not prohibited.

* Close marriages were not prohibited during the dispensations of Innocence, Conscious, Human Government and Promise. Starting with the dispensation of Law, they were.

 

[Lion Hearted Man]

Again -- you have the wrong dispensation.*

Prior to the Levitical law, which prohibits close marriages, close marriages were not prohibited.

* Close marriages were not prohibited during the dispensations of Innocence, Conscious, Human Government and Promise. Starting with the dispensation of Law, they were.

So it's just whatever the Bible says?

 

[AV1611VET]

So it's just whatever the Bible says?

Yes.