For creationists: give me your arguments against evolution.

[FreedByte]

Interesting. But at the end of the day it is all speculation until the missing link is found. Cheerio. Have a FUNtastic weekend

What? We already have found tons of transitional species.

 

[FreedByte]

The odds are really against it happening.

We can say that evolution is true with the same certainty that we can say Napoleon existed.

 

[Split Rock]

I didn't say the science was bad, I said the conclusions drawn from the science are bad.

And they are bad because.....
A. You don't like them
B. They go against your religious beliefs.
C. Both A and B.

DNA is a building block and a road map. Comparing the AMOUNT of similar DNA is moronically stupid unless you know the function of each section of DNA and exactly what each section does and how it interacts with the other at what stage of the organisms life.

No it is not. What you fail to understand is that the majority of differences are irrelevant to function and phenotype. One can take a human gene and stick it in a mouse and it will work fine. This is why genetic engineering works. The only explanation for the differences that makes any sense is genetic descent.

But that is the idiot moron stage we are at now. All we can do is compute the amount of similarities and differences and figure the math on what percent difference there is.

Wrong again. There is a lot of research on gene funtion as well as non-gene DNA function.

Not WHAT the each difference is and how significant each difference is. Each sequence of dna is more than a lego building block where you count the lego colors and compute the amount of difference. It's popular to spout the similarities between a chimp and man.

The similarities are repeated here a lot because it is an indication of how closely related we are by genetic descent and how long ago we diverged. The importance of these differences is a hot research topic, and specific gene differences are being examined to figure out what makes us humans.

Why is this statement not repeated so often?

"New research has revealed that humans, worms and flies have many genomic processes in common. "

Because it doesn't further the evo agenda near as well, that's why. It's too big of a leap for evo non-believers to have the faith that we are kinfolk with worms and flies. The religion need to take baby steps first.

Its not a religion... your position is based on religion, not ours. Why is that hard to keep straight? Why do you guys like to use the term "religion" as an insult nowadays? What does it say about your own faith?

WHY is DNA similar with chimps? Why, it must be because of the visual similarities between the species......or perhaps not.

The best scientific explanation is a common ancestor.

Let's look at a function argument. Based on function alone, would you expect whales to have more genetic similarity to seals or to cows? Seals, right? They both are fully aquatic and live in the ocean. A cow lives on land and eats grass. If they were designed as is, then the genetic information between whales and seals would be more similar. Unfortunately for the designed argument, they are not. Why? Because whales descended from even-toed ungulates like cows and seals evolved from carnivores like dogs and cats. Evolution has better explanitory power than design.

 

[Split Rock]

The odds are really against it happening.

So are the odds that you would be born, grow up and one day post on this forum.

 

[ihavefoundgod951]

Jesus died for you!

Are you aware of the story of Moses in the book of exodus?
The story is about Moses task of freeing the Hebrew slaves (Israelites) from the Egyptian Pharaoh Ramesses who had brutally oppressed the Hebrew people for 400 years.

I'm sure you are aware of this story, without going though all of it, God told Moses that he would kill every first born in Egypt for not freeing his people, God told Moses to tell every Hebrew to slaughter a lamb and with the blood from the lamb spread it around the door frame of there homes as a marker. So when God sent the death Angel to kill every first born in Egypt, the Angel would pass over every door that was marked with the blood of the lamb harming no Hebrew children.

What has this got to do with Jesus I hear you ask?

Well this day when the death Angel passed over the Hebrew homes became known as the 'passover'
The Hebrew Jews would celebrate the passover every year in remembrance, It became a festival where the Hebrews would sacrifice a lamb, the blood of the lamb was said to cleanse a person of there sins.

Now Let's fast forward a couple of thousand of years to the book of Mathew, Jesus is born of a Virgin as prophesied.
Jesus was sent to the world to die for YOU and for ME.
His whole life lead to that fateful day on the day of the passover festival, the day the Jews slaughter a lamb to cleanse themselves from sin. On the cross Jesus became the passover lamb (o lamb of God that takes away the sins of the world) Jesus on the cross freed us from the curse of sin.

The Lamb was slaughtered

On the 3rd day he rises again, resurrected from the dead rendering death defeated, sin defeated, Satan defeated

John 11:26

- Everyone who lives in me and believes in me will never ever die.

Jesus is the son of God

There is only one God the God most high

The father and the son are one God

Allah one God

John 14:6

- Jesus told him, "I AM the way, the TRUTH, and the life. No one can come to the Father except through me.

God bless

If you want to accept Jesus Christ as your lord and saviour

Say this prayer

Father I believe that Jesus Christ was born of a virgin, he died on the cross for my sins, he rised again from the dead on the 3rd day, rendering death/sin/Satan/the enemy defeated.
I believe in God the father, I believe Jesus is seated at the right hand of the father, I believe in the holy spirit, I believe in One God now and forever Amen

 

[FreedByte]

Jesus died for you!

Are you aware of the story of Moses in the book of exodus?
The story is about Moses task of freeing the Hebrew slaves (Israelites) from the Egyptian Pharaoh Ramesses who had brutally oppressed the Hebrew people for 400 years.

I'm sure you are aware of this story, without going though all of it, God told Moses that he would kill every first born in Egypt for not freeing his people, God told Moses to tell every Hebrew to slaughter a lamb and with the blood from the lamb spread it around the door frame of there homes as a marker. So when God sent the death Angel to kill every first born in Egypt, the Angel would pass over every door that was marked with the blood of the lamb harming no Hebrew children.

What has this got to do with Jesus I hear you ask?

Well this day when the death Angel passed over the Hebrew homes became known as the 'passover'
The Hebrew Jews would celebrate the passover every year in remembrance, It became a festival where the Hebrews would sacrifice a lamb, the blood of the lamb was said to cleanse a person of there sins.

Now Let's fast forward a couple of thousand of years to the book of Mathew, Jesus is born of a Virgin as prophesied.
Jesus was sent to the world to die for YOU and for ME.
His whole life lead to that fateful day on the day of the passover festival, the day the Jews slaughter a lamb to cleanse themselves from sin. On the cross Jesus became the passover lamb (o lamb of God that takes away the sins of the world) Jesus on the cross freed us from the curse of sin.

The Lamb was slaughtered

On the 3rd day he rises again, resurrected from the dead rendering death defeated, sin defeated, Satan defeated

John 11:26

- Everyone who lives in me and believes in me will never ever die.

Jesus is the son of God

There is only one God the God most high

The father and the son are one God

Allah one God

John 14:6

- Jesus told him, "I AM the way, the TRUTH, and the life. No one can come to the Father except through me.

God bless

If you want to accept Jesus Christ as your lord and saviour

Say this prayer

Father I believe that Jesus Christ was born of a virgin, he died on the cross for my sins, he rised again from the dead on the 3rd day, rendering death/sin/Satan/the enemy defeated.
I believe in God the father, I believe Jesus is seated at the right hand of the father, I believe in the holy spirit, I believe in One God now and forever Amen

this is offtopic

 

[Paul of Eugene OR]

The odds are really against it happening.

No, the odds are really in favor of it happening.

Ooooo, I love this mere pronouncement game! It saves so much work, looking for evidence and all that!

There is a drawback . . . mere pronouncements turn out to not be very good at convincing people. Oh dear, what can we do about that?

One can look for evidence, I suppose. Like, vestigial tails inside our bodies. If we had that, it might be evidence of descent from a tailed species.

 

[BornAgainBrian]

I might be more inclined to accept macroevolution if I saw multiple skeletons of each stage of transition for each animal. I haven't seen a bunch of skeletons of not-quite-whales or of whatever's in between a T-rex and an ostrich.

 

[Euler]

I might be more inclined to accept macroevolution if I saw multiple skeletons of each stage of transition for each animal. I haven't seen a bunch of skeletons of not-quite-whales or of whatever's in between a T-rex and an ostrich.

We do have multiple skeletons.

 

[FreedByte]

I might be more inclined to accept macroevolution if I saw multiple skeletons of each stage of transition for each animal. I haven't seen a bunch of skeletons of not-quite-whales or of whatever's in between a T-rex and an ostrich.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m-igulA_rJk

 

[Split Rock]

I might be more inclined to accept macroevolution if I saw multiple skeletons of each stage of transition for each animal. I haven't seen a bunch of skeletons of not-quite-whales or of whatever's in between a T-rex and an ostrich.

Here you go for the whales:
Philip D. Gingerich
Cetacean Evolution: The Evolution of Whales, Adapted from National Geographic, November 2001

Both Durodon and Basilosaurus had tiny rear legs, demonstrating the 4 legged ancestry of modern whales.

 

[Euler]

Here's how it will work -

If you provide 5 transitionals, creationists will say there should have been 50. Provide 50 and there should have been 1000.

Let's see.

 

[BornAgainBrian]

If it's such irrefutable science, I think there should be evidence of the entire transformation.

If I saw no in-between stages, I'd have a hard time believing a tadpole became a frog.

 

[Euler]

If it's such irrefutable science, I think there should be evidence of the entire transformation.

If I saw no in-between stages, I'd have a hard time believing a tadpole became a frog.

Right on cue.

You do know the probabilities involved with fossilization, right?

 

[BornAgainBrian]

Right on cue.

You do know the probabilities involved with fossilization, right?

Pretty convenient...

 

[Euler]

Pretty convenient...

No, "convenient" would be a 100% rate of fossilization of all living things, because then you'd have no means of pointing to 'missing' transitionals. Or, "convenient" would be a 0% rate of fossilization, which would give grist to your grubby little mill.

In fact what we have is what the numbers actually are - less than a 1% chance of a dead organism fossilizing. And that number varies according to whether or not the organism has any bony body parts and according to the nature of the environment in which its body falls.

Now, those are the numbers. As the tough guys say, deal with it.

 

[BornAgainBrian]

No, "convenient" would be a 100% rate of fossilization of all living things, because then you'd have no means of pointing to 'missing' transitionals. Or, "convenient" would be a 0% rate of fossilization, which would give grist to your grubby little mill.

In fact what we have is what the numbers actually are - less than a 1% chance of a dead organism fossilizing. And that number varies according to whether or not the organism has any bony body parts and according to the nature of the environment in which its body falls.

Now, those are the numbers. As the tough guys say, deal with it.

So that's the hard evidence you have?

 

[Shemjaza]

So that's the hard evidence you have?

Genetic evidence is better. But fossil and genetic and geological line up together, so it's pretty clear.

 

[BornAgainBrian]

Genetic evidence is better. But fossil and genetic and geological line up together, so it's pretty clear.

Genetic evidence tells you for sure that there's an evolutionary path which includes tons of transition species no one has ever seen?

 

[Euler]

Genetic evidence tells you for sure that there's an evolutionary path which includes tons of transition species no one has ever seen?

Genetic evidence, fossil evidence, embryological evidence, morphological evidence, geographical evidence, phylogenetic evidence, vestigial evidence, atavistic evidence, anatomical evidence, retroviral evidence, speciation evidence.

Other than that, I got nothin'.