For Calvinists: Struggling with Matthew 22:14

[FutureAndAHope]

I know God didn't have to save any. I'm still getting saddened over the fact that not many are going to be saved and are unable to respond because of their nature. John 3:16 used to comfort me but after reading Matthew 22:14, I'm kind of in the dumps.

How do I get out of this?

While our eyes are open to God's forgiveness, in Christ, we must remain thankful for it. It is not a pleasant thought to think many will perish. I had a bit of a complain about it. But I realised it is not worth loosing eternal life over, Christ suffered so we could live, He gave a lot, for every man woman and child who chooses to receive it. We must receive it. If people choose sin over God consistently, they unfortunately will have to suffer.

 

[dqhall]

Is Jesus in Matthew 22:14 referring to the Jews only or to the wider group of Jew and Gentile?

Is Jesus in Matthew 22:14 referring to the difference between the few called; John the Baptist, Paul, the apostles, e.t.c. And the 'many' called by preaching the gospel?

Only a remnant of Israel are saved but little mention of the Gentiles in the text.

Only a remnant of Israel are saved but little mention of the Gentiles in the text.[/QUOTE]
Jesus preached in villages near the north shore of the Sea of Galilee. He gained some followers, but many sided with the chief priests of the Sanhedrin and the Herodians instead. Jesus revealed that some Gentiles might repent; inasmuch as Tyre and Sidon were predominately Gentile:

Matthew 11:20 (WEB) Then he began to denounce the cities in which most of his mighty works had been done, because they didn’t repent. 21 “Woe to you, Chorazin! Woe to you, Bethsaida! For if the mighty works had been done in Tyre and Sidon which were done in you, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes. 22 But I tell you, it will be more tolerable for Tyre and Sidon on the day of judgment than for you. 23 You, Capernaum, who are exalted to heaven, you will go down to Hades. For if the mighty works had been done in Sodom which were done in you, it would have remained until today. 24 But I tell you that it will be more tolerable for the land of Sodom on the day of judgment, than for you.”

 

[Carl Emerson]

If we had no bible.

If God had said nothing - except - "all have sinned" and "the wages of sin is death"... then with only that... we would indeed be very pleasantly surprised to find out that in spite of all that he managed to save one or two anyway.

My thankfulness goes deeper than that...

 

[Carl Emerson]

So were those living in or near Pompeii, Akrotiri, Krakatoa, and Hiroshima all gone in a few minutes. A tsunami killed over 200,000 along the shores of the Indian Ocean in 2004. Were these any worse than others? Were they making plans for the future when they did not know they had no future?

I fail to understand how your comment relates to what I was saying.

 

[klutedavid]

Jesus preached in villages near the north shore of the Sea of Galilee. He gained some followers, but many sided with the chief priests of the Sanhedrin and the Herodians instead. Jesus revealed that some Gentiles might repent; inasmuch as Tyre and Sidon were predominately Gentile:

Matthew 11:20 (WEB) Then he began to denounce the cities in which most of his mighty works had been done, because they didn’t repent. 21 “Woe to you, Chorazin! Woe to you, Bethsaida! For if the mighty works had been done in Tyre and Sidon which were done in you, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes. 22 But I tell you, it will be more tolerable for Tyre and Sidon on the day of judgment than for you. 23 You, Capernaum, who are exalted to heaven, you will go down to Hades. For if the mighty works had been done in Sodom which were done in you, it would have remained until today. 24 But I tell you that it will be more tolerable for the land of Sodom on the day of judgment, than for you.”

So what is the connection between Matthew 11 and Matthew 22?

Spit it out man.

 

[ViaCrucis]

I know God didn't have to save any. I'm still getting saddened over the fact that not many are going to be saved and are unable to respond because of their nature. John 3:16 used to comfort me but after reading Matthew 22:14, I'm kind of in the dumps.

How do I get out of this?

Believe the Gospel--Christ died for everyone, and God wills that all be saved.

Predestination is not about God picking and choosing who is and isn't saved. Predestination is about God's gracious choosing us before the foundation of the world.

Scripture teaches that God has predestined us since before the foundation of the world. It does not teach us that God predestined anyone to damnation; on the contrary, we are told that God desires and so wills that everyone be saved--and indeed, Christ died for all.

From a Lutheran perspective this is why both Calvinism and Arminianism get it wrong--in fact both are two sides of the same coin, and rooted in a faulty theology and errant use of reason. That is, we'd say that the proper use of reason is ministerial (reason serves faith) not magisterial (reason rules over faith). Thus just because Scripture presents us with a paradox does not mean that we subvert the word of Scripture to conform to our sinful reason; but rather we confess the paradox in faith.

It is certainly reasonable to conclude that if God has predestined us to salvation, then it must follow that God chose, or at least passed over, the rest. But that isn't what Scripture teaches. Scripture, again, teaches that we have been predestined, but it does not teach that God passes anyone or has chosen to damn anyone. The usual prooftexts from Romans 9 to support this fail to account for the larger message and context of St. Paul's letter. Specifically this: People need to keep reading beyond chapter 9 of Romans, because Paul's conclusion doesn't come until chapter 11, "God consigned all to disobedience in order that He might have mercy on all" (Romans 11:32).

Thus we must confess this:

1) The Law condemns all men as sinners, for by sin man is unable to accomplish the righteous deeds as proscribed by the Law, and thus all man's works are reckoned as unrighteous on account of sin.

2) Because God is unwilling that any perish, but that all be saved, He sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the Law. Christ has accomplished, once and for all, the perfect and finished work for all universally.

3) It is by God's unconditional election and gracious will to predestine us in Christ before the foundation of the world, that we can be confident, that as we have heard the Gospel preached and proclaimed, and have been baptized into Christ, that we are indeed true sons and daughters of God.

4) It is not by some inscrutable will of God that God has predestined us, but rather through the revealed Means of the preaching of the Gospel and His Sacraments, through which we receive faith extra nos, apart from ourselves, as the pure gift of God and by which we are freely justified.

5) And so having heard and received the word, we can be confident that we are the possession of Jesus Christ, and thus the possession of God. And that all of God's word and promises are true and inviolate--what He has said cannot be unsaid, what He has done cannot be undone, what He has promised is certain and sure. Our sins are forgiven, we have received the righteousness of Jesus Christ, the Spirit dwells in us as the guarantee of these things, and so ours is the inheritance of everlasting life and the resurrection of the dead. Amen. The word of the Lord endures forever.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[BobRyan]

Should we not be thankful that He is saving any?

If we had no bible.

If God had said nothing - except - "all have sinned" and "the wages of sin is death"... then with only that... we would indeed be very pleasantly surprised to find out that in spite of all that he managed to save one or two "anyway". Because in the absence of any statements about so-loving-the-world and Christ given to be "the savior of the World" 1 John 4:14... then a doomed world would be surprised that ANY ... even one... was then saved.

But that is not the reality that we live in... the Bible exists.

My thankfulness goes deeper than that...

Mine too - because the reality we live in - is a full bible Gospel where God sovereignly decided to "So love the World" -- not merely an arbitrarily selected few - "not willing for ANY to perish but for ALL to come to repentance"...

so "yeah" a lot more thankful than just "pleasantly surprised" that having promised nothing He at the last minute saved a few as in the scenario depicted above.

 

[Junia]

All don't want to live with God unless He regenerates them.

Romans 3:11
there is no one who understands; there is no one who seeks God.

Romans 3:10
As it is written: "There is no one righteous, not even one;

Faith is a gift according to Ephesians 2:8-10. It's not something we can muster up.

I'm just struggling with the thought of "why few are enabled to believe".

few choose to believe. there arent any people who sincerely want

to believe but are stopped by God or anything from doing so. we all have sin natures. sin is a choice though. none of us are helpless victims. but i can understnd your sadness. i feel sad for those who just dont choose salvation. or maybe some want to be saved ut they have been decived by a false teaching that only certain good people can be saved. whereas the Bible says that ALL who call upon the LOrd (repent) are saved. some people who dont know this may end uo discouraged and not call out to God. THOSE ae the ones my heart breaks fro most of all.

 

[Junia]

Believe the Gospel--Christ died for everyone, and God wills that all be saved.

Predestination is not about God picking and choosing who is and isn't saved. Predestination is about God's gracious choosing us before the foundation of the world.

Scripture teaches that God has predestined us since before the foundation of the world. It does not teach us that God predestined anyone to damnation; on the contrary, we are told that God desires and so wills that everyone be saved--and indeed, Christ died for all.

From a Lutheran perspective this is why both Calvinism and Arminianism get it wrong--in fact both are two sides of the same coin, and rooted in a faulty theology and errant use of reason. That is, we'd say that the proper use of reason is ministerial (reason serves faith) not magisterial (reason rules over faith). Thus just because Scripture presents us with a paradox does not mean that we subvert the word of Scripture to conform to our sinful reason; but rather we confess the paradox in faith.

It is certainly reasonable to conclude that if God has predestined us to salvation, then it must follow that God chose, or at least passed over, the rest. But that isn't what Scripture teaches. Scripture, again, teaches that we have been predestined, but it does not teach that God passes anyone or has chosen to damn anyone. The usual prooftexts from Romans 9 to support this fail to account for the larger message and context of St. Paul's letter. Specifically this: People need to keep reading beyond chapter 9 of Romans, because Paul's conclusion doesn't come until chapter 11, "God consigned all to disobedience in order that He might have mercy on all" (Romans 11:32).

Thus we must confess this:

1) The Law condemns all men as sinners, for by sin man is unable to accomplish the righteous deeds as proscribed by the Law, and thus all man's works are reckoned as unrighteous on account of sin.

2) Because God is unwilling that any perish, but that all be saved, He sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the Law. Christ has accomplished, once and for all, the perfect and finished work for all universally.

3) It is by God's unconditional election and gracious will to predestine us in Christ before the foundation of the world, that we can be confident, that as we have heard the Gospel preached and proclaimed, and have been baptized into Christ, that we are indeed true sons and daughters of God.

4) It is not by some inscrutable will of God that God has predestined us, but rather through the revealed Means of the preaching of the Gospel and His Sacraments, through which we receive faith extra nos, apart from ourselves, as the pure gift of God and by which we are freely justified.

5) And so having heard and received the word, we can be confident that we are the possession of Jesus Christ, and thus the possession of God. And that all of God's word and promises are true and inviolate--what He has said cannot be unsaid, what He has done cannot be undone, what He has promised is certain and sure. Our sins are forgiven, we have received the righteousness of Jesus Christ, the Spirit dwells in us as the guarantee of these things, and so ours is the inheritance of everlasting life and the resurrection of the dead. Amen. The word of the Lord endures forever.

-CryptoLutheran

yes. i think calvinism and arminianism are extremes and the truth is somewhere in between them. i agree with your post 100%

 

[Junia]

Thank you. You have touched on my biggest concern in your response.

It is something I'll have to consider and mull over because I've many verses where it doesn't seem like we are able or the one's who chose God. Like John 15:16

i can understnad that fear. i have been there and i never was a calvinist! but i would ask you something: why do you think you have such a desire for salvation and God if you are not one of His elect? None can come to Jesus unless the father draws themk to Himself. if you are not one of His elect, you would likely not feel this way.

 

[Junia]

I proffer that we serve an unloving and unjust God if He made us for the sole purpose of sending some to hell and some to heaven without giving us, His creations, the possibility of salvation.

I proffer that He is, yes, a mean and wicked God if He finds glory in our suffering and sending most to hell.

@Tania11 in her post no. 18 is correct....
I pray that her doubts bring her to the knowledge of a God that is LOVING, MERCIFUL and JUST.

me too. i had to start to learn that God is love and that He can be trusted. trusted to keep us in Him and trusted generally. that He isnt't a nasty abusive father who wants to punish or disown His truly repentent and seeking children

 

[ViaCrucis]

yes. i think calvinism and arminianism are extremes and the truth is somewhere in between them. i agree with your post 100%

Well, to be more specific. I don't think the answer is a middle ground between the two; rather I believe Calvinism and Arminianism are actually born of the same cloth. It's not a compromise between the two that is needed; but rather an entirely different perspective altogether. That's why I'm Lutheran.

Both Calvinism and Arminianism are a product of the Reformed tradition of the Protestant Reformation. Jacob Arminius and the Remonstrants, the "founders" of Arminianism, were part of the Dutch Reformed Church. TULIP, or the Five Points of Calvinism, was put forward as a response against Arminius and the Five Points of Remonstrance at the Synod of Dordt, a Dutch Reformed church council.

Lutheranism is very much a completely distinct and independent theological tradition. From a Lutheran perspective, even, we'd say that Calvin and Zwingli hijacked the Reformation. That said, Lutherans do have a lot in common with our Reformed brethren, and are more cordial toward Calvin than Zwingli. Indeed, Luther himself said he'd sooner drink blood with the Pope than mere wine with the Zwinglians.

We agree with the Calvinists on Total Depravity and Unconditional Election, it's the other three points that we have a problem with. And while Jacob Arminius' "Unlimited Atonement" is certainly better than TULIP's "Limited Atonement", both are deeply erroneous. Instead, the Lutheran position is Universal Atonement. Christ didn't die for the world in potential (only those God elected, or only those who would "accept" Jesus), but objectively so.

It's not a matter of us coming to Jesus to be justified.
It's not a matter of God picking and choosing who would believe.

It's that Christ died for everyone, and actually accomplishes our salvation for us, apart from us, as pure grace. We receive this incomprehensible gift as pure grace by God's own works. When the Gospel is preached, it's not up to me to accept or reject it; the Gospel actually SAVES me, because through the preaching of the word God the Holy Spirit actually creates faith (Romans 10:17). I am given faith as a pure gift apart from myself (Ephesians 2:8).

Thus salvation is the work of God alone, by what has been done for all, which is now mine as a pure gift, apart from myself.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[St_Worm2]

Hello @Tania11, there are things about God and His ways that even we Christians, who have all been given the mind of Christ .. 1 Corinthians 2:16, do not know/are not privy to (and/or cannot know, in the case of Biblical mysteries, because they cannot be fully understood by us .. e.g. the Trinity).

As the Bible tells us however,

Deuteronomy 29
29 The secret things belong to the Lord our God, but the things revealed belong to us and to our sons forever, so that we observe all the words of this law.
​

IOW, He has given us all that we need to find Him and know Him, to be saved and sanctified by Him, and to trust and obey Him. Does it not seem best therefore to dwell upon that which we know to be true (and to keep that forever in the forefront of our minds), instead of those things which we do not know or have not yet been revealed to us?

For instance, here are two very important things that I always keep in mind.

1. God the Father (our Abba) loved us so much that He sent His only begotten Son here to die on our behalf/for His enemies .. Romans 5:8-10, and by doing so to make a way for us to come to Him and to live with Him forevermore.​

2. The One who promised to save, sanctify and glorify us also promised us that He would wipe away every tear from our eyes, that there will no longer be any mourning, crying, pain or death in the eternity that is before us.​

I don't know what the end of all things will be for every person, but this I do know, God is love, and He has proven to me that He is (so much so, in fact, that I am overwhelmed by it, even though I realize that I have only begun to scratch the surface of it). As a result of knowing Him/knowing His character, I've decided to live by the things that I do know (the things that He has lovingly chosen to reveal to us), and to trust Him with the rest, believing that all of His great promises to us, like the one that we find in Revelation 21:4 above, can be fully trusted as well

We are upset by some of the things that we "think" we know and understand concerning the age to come, but clearly we do not (e.g. Revelation 21:4), so we should choose to trust Him instead (as He has certainly proven Himself worthy of our trust, yes)?

God bless you!

--David

"God is God. Because He is God, He is worthy of my trust and obedience. I will find rest nowhere but in His holy will, a will that is unspeakably beyond my largest notions of what He is up to." ~Missionary Elisabeth Elliot​

 

[Palmfever]

All don't want to live with God unless He regenerates them.

Romans 3:11
there is no one who understands; there is no one who seeks God.

Romans 3:10
As it is written: "There is no one righteous, not even one;

Faith is a gift according to Ephesians 2:8-10. It's not something we can muster up.

I'm just struggling with the thought of "why few are enabled to believe".

Romans is a Quote from Psalm, 53 and Psalm, 14. They are in reference to unbelievers not believers. Many men of God are referred to as righteous in scripture. Believers are made righteous by the work of God through Christ.

Psalm 53 1 - The fool has said in his heart, “There is no God,”
They are corrupt, and have committed abominable injustice;
There is no one who does good.
2 God has looked down from heaven upon the sons of men
To see if there is anyone who [c]understands,
Who seeks after God.
3 Every one of them has turned aside; together they have become corrupt;
There is no one who does good, not even one.
4 Have the workers of wickedness no knowledge,
Who eat up My people as though they ate bread
And have not called upon God?

Psalm 14:1
The fool has said in his heart,
“There is no God.”
They are corrupt,
They have done abominable works,
There is none who does good.
2 The Lord looks down from heaven upon the children of men,
To see if there are any who understand, who seek God.
3 They have all turned aside,
They have together become corrupt;
There is none who does good,
No, not one.
4 Have all the workers of iniquity no knowledge,
Who eat up my people as they eat bread,
And do not call on the Lord?
5 There they are in great fear,
For God is with the generation of the righteous.
6 You shame the counsel of the poor,
But the Lord is his refuge.

In Christ

 

[St_Worm2]

Romans is a Quote from Psalm, 53 and Psalm, 14. They are in reference to unbelievers not believers. Many men of God are referred to as righteous in scripture. Believers are made righteous by the work of God through Christ.

Agreed. In fact, all of St. Paul's treatise (that begins with Romans 1:18 and ends with Romans 3:23) is written (principally) about those who are outside of Christ, be they Jews or be they Greeks/Gentiles.

Of course, this means that what was written, was written about us too, sons of disobedience who were all dead in our trespasses and sins, and were by nature, children of wrath, even as the rest .. Ephesians 2:1-3.

"But God" ... Ephesians 2:4-5

--David

 

[HatGuy]

Thank you. You have touched on my biggest concern in your response.

It is something I'll have to consider and mull over because I've many verses where it doesn't seem like we are able or the one's who chose God. Like John 15:16

God chose His people, the Church, and He chooses no other (1 Peter 2:9)
God gives faith to people through the gospel (Romans 10:17)
Jesus died for us and loved us first and died for all.

We can see that God chooses his Church and God gives salvation and faith and no one can save themselves, but none of this means that God predestines only a select few individuals to be saved.

 

[Aussie Pete]

I know God didn't have to save any. I'm still getting saddened over the fact that not many are going to be saved and are unable to respond because of their nature. John 3:16 used to comfort me but after reading Matthew 22:14, I'm kind of in the dumps.

How do I get out of this?

You don't know who will be saved and who will not. I don't know how it all works. I trust God, with His perfect love and wisdom, to work it righteously. In the meantime, I assume that everyone is potentially to be saved. I witness where and when I can. I am well aware that it's not just my words that matter (vital though they are), I need to be a witness by my life. When people say to me, "You are different" I rejoice. That's the Lord Jesus shining through. A joyless, depressed and sad person is not much of an advertisement for being a Christian.

 

[Strong in Him]

I'm sorry. I didn't mean to take your post the wrong way. My response was kind of crabby too. I apologise.
I am struggling very badly with the thought of God enabling few to be saved.

Personally, I don't believe that a loving, perfect heavenly Father who created ALL people in his image, would plan to save only a few of them.
My dad wouldn't have decided that only a couple of his children were worthy of his love, and eventual inheritance, and my dad wasn't perfect.
I do not believe that God is less than my dad.

 

[ClementofA]

I know God didn't have to save any. I'm still getting saddened over the fact that not many are going to be saved and are unable to respond because of their nature. John 3:16 used to comfort me but after reading Matthew 22:14, I'm kind of in the dumps.

How do I get out of this?

Dear Tania,

Matthew 22:14 does not speak of salvation:

"For many are called, but few are chosen."

And Paul implies "many", not "few" will be saved (Rom.5:18-19):

Rom 5:18 Consequently, then, as it was through one offense for ALL MANKIND for condemnation, thus also it is through one just act for ALL MANKIND for life's justifying."

Rom 5:19 For even as, through the disobedience of the one man, THE MANY were constituted sinners, thus also, through the obedience of the One, THE MANY shall be constituted just."

In fact that looks like really, really "Good News" to me.


******************************************


"You are fully, completely, and thoroughly adored by God."

"You are fully, completely, and thoroughly adored by God."

 

[dqhall]

I fail to understand how your comment relates to what I was saying.

They have not found the remains of Sodom.

I suppose God was not able to successfully warn many to flee from the disasters I described. Maybe a few were warned to flee in advance and got out like in the story of Lot. In the story of Sodom and Gomorrah, Lot’s wife looked back was turned into a pillar of salt. There are pillars of salt down by the Dead Sea. This story is hard to believe.

According to the historian Tacitus the Roman emperor Nero was bisexual. Rome was not destroyed in a fireball for his sins. Nero died at the age of 30.

DQH