For Calvinists: Struggling with Matthew 22:14

[GodsGrace101]

He created a good world and then it fell because of sin. All humans born after Adam and Eve were corrupted because of the original sin.

So?
There is no problem with the fall IF God gives to each one of us the opportunity for salvation.

Jesus came to save the WORLD, not to condemn it.
WORLD means everyone in it that wants to be saved.
WORLD means WORLD.
ALL means ALL.

Calvinism changes the meaning of words in scripture so that it becomes muddled and not understandable in the simple way that it was written and meant to be understood.

God gives to each man the possibility of salvation.
It's up to us to accept God or deny Him....

Only then does the N.T. (or the O.T.) make any sense.

 

[GodsGrace101]

Thank you. You have touched on my biggest concern in your response.

It is something I'll have to consider and mull over because I've many verses where it doesn't seem like we are able or the one's who chose God. Like John 15:16

In John 15:16 Jesus is speaking to the Apostles.
Jesus chose the Apostles.
This is not a salvation message, but He is speaking directly to them,,,just as He is in Matthew 28:19-20

 

[Mama-Bear]

I know God didn't have to save any. I'm still getting saddened over the fact that not many are going to be saved and are unable to respond because of their nature. John 3:16 used to comfort me but after reading Matthew 22:14, I'm kind of in the dumps.

How do I get out of this?

Many are called few are chosen. The whole world is called through preaching.

 

[Ilikecats]

So?
There is no problem with the fall IF God gives to each one of us the opportunity for salvation.

Jesus came to save the WORLD, not to condemn it.
WORLD means everyone in it that wants to be saved.
WORLD means WORLD.
ALL means ALL.

Calvinism changes the meaning of words in scripture so that it becomes muddled and not understandable in the simple way that it was written and meant to be understood.

God gives to each man the possibility of salvation.
It's up to us to accept God or deny Him....

Only then does the N.T. (or the O.T.) make any sense.

Before Jesus died on the cross God looked over the sins of the elect because the death was not payed for them yet.
Romans 3:25 God presented Christ as a sacrifice of atonement, through the shedding of his blood - to be received by faith. He did this to demonstrate his righteousness, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished -

What about the people before Jesus whose sins weren’t overlooked? What about the people that have never heard the gospel?
Jesus saved the elect and is the saviour of the world because through him the kingdom of heaven entered this world.

 

[GodsGrace101]

Before Jesus died on the cross God looked over the sins of the elect because the death was not payed for them yet.
Romans 3:25 God presented Christ as a sacrifice of atonement, through the shedding of his blood - to be received by faith. He did this to demonstrate his righteousness, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished -

What about the people before Jesus whose sins weren’t overlooked? What about the people that have never heard the gospel?
Jesus saved the elect and is the saviour of the world because through him the kingdom of heaven entered this world.

There are no ELECT persons in the bible.
The elect is referring to the Jewish people whom God elected to be His choice of persons from whom to be revealed and to become known.

Romans chapters 9 to 11 would fall under this category.

Read the beginning of chapter 9.
It looks to me like Paul might love the Jews more than God does...He's willing to give up his life for them.

Don't you think God loves the Jews AT LEAST as much as Paul does? So why would God arbitrarily send anyone to hell?

What about the people that have never heard the gospel? Try reading Romans 1:19-20 and then tell us what you think it means.

 

[Ilikecats]

There are no ELECT persons in the bible.
The elect is referring to the Jewish people whom God elected to be His choice of persons from whom to be revealed and to become known.

Romans chapters 9 to 11 would fall under this category.

Read the beginning of chapter 9.
It looks to me like Paul might love the Jews more than God does...He's willing to give up his life for them.

Don't you think God loves the Jews AT LEAST as much as Paul does? So why would God arbitrarily send anyone to hell?

What about the people that have never heard the gospel? Try reading Romans 1:19-20 and then tell us what you think it means.

Knowledge of God which is what Romans 1:19-20 is talking about doesn’t save anyone it’s the gospel that does. And the elect is part of the bible which you’re choosing to ignore to promote your own theology. God arbitrarily sends people to hell because he is the judge. God is the arbiter. You’re guilty of a crime against him and thus punished by death.

 

[Carl Emerson]

I guess I'm struggling with the thought of God enabling few to be saved according to Mathew.

Should we not be thankful that He is saving any?

 

[BobRyan]

Should we not be thankful that He is saving any?

If we had no bible.

If God had said nothing - except - "all have sinned" and "the wages of sin is death"... then with only that... we would indeed be very pleasantly surprised to find out that in spite of all that he managed to save one or two anyway.

But that is not the reality that we live in... the Bible exists.

 

[Tania11]

Should we not be thankful that He is saving any?

I understand that. Sometimes I wonder why He created the world just to send the majority to hell. The call of all men to repent and Ezekiel 18:23 no longer make sense to me.

I don't want to question His character...I'm trying not to.

 

[friend of]

It's an interesting verse. Of the many that were invited to the banquet, only 1 was found to be without proper attire. The rest were still allowed to partake of the celebration. I know the verse states that "few are chosen" but compare that to the multitudes of people attending who were not thrust out.

The person with the wrong garment represents those who trust in themselves for salvation as they refuse to be cloaked in the righteousness that is of Christ. They presume to be holy enough to enter His presence. But this is an incorrect assumption, since only Christ's righteousness is suitable.

I could very well be wrong, but I take it to mean that few are specially selected by God to attend. The rest hear the call and either answer affirmatively or not.

Hope this helps.

 

[GodsGrace101]

Knowledge of God which is what Romans 1:19-20 is talking about doesn’t save anyone it’s the gospel that does. And the elect is part of the bible which you’re choosing to ignore to promote your own theology. God arbitrarily sends people to hell because he is the judge. God is the arbiter. You’re guilty of a crime against him and thus punished by death.

If Romans 1:19-20 does not save anyone...
then WHY are those spoken of there without excuse?

How were persons saved BEFORE the gospels were written?

I don't have "my own theology".
I have the theology of all of Christendom except for the theology of the reformed, or calvinism, which is different and was never even heard of until the year 1,500 AD, about. The early church did NOT even speak of calvinism---God choosing who would be saved. No such belief.

God is the judge...but He is a JUST judge.
Romans 3:26
26for the demonstration, I say, of His righteousness at the present time, so that He would be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.


He gives conditions by which we can be saved.
You can start with
John 15:5-6
5“I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me and I in him, he bears much fruit, for apart from Me you can do nothing.
6“If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away as a branch and dries up; and they gather them, and cast them into the fire and they are burned.


You can look back to the O.T. with
Deuteronomy 30:19
19“I call heaven and earth to witness against you today, that I have set before you life and death, the blessing and the curse. So choose life in order that you may live, you and your descendants,

 

[Ilikecats]

If Romans 1:19-20 does not save anyone...
then WHY are those spoken of there without excuse?

How were persons saved BEFORE the gospels were written?

I don't have "my own theology".
I have the theology of all of Christendom except for the theology of the reformed, or calvinism, which is different and was never even heard of until the year 1,500 AD, about. The early church did NOT even speak of calvinism---God choosing who would be saved. No such belief.

God is the judge...but He is a JUST judge.
Romans 3:26
26for the demonstration, I say, of His righteousness at the present time, so that He would be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.


He gives conditions by which we can be saved.
You can start with
John 15:5-6
5“I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me and I in him, he bears much fruit, for apart from Me you can do nothing.
6“If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away as a branch and dries up; and they gather them, and cast them into the fire and they are burned.


You can look back to the O.T. with
Deuteronomy 30:19
19“I call heaven and earth to witness against you today, that I have set before you life and death, the blessing and the curse. So choose life in order that you may live, you and your descendants,

Romans 1:19-20 is talking about how people are guilty even if they have never heard the Law. Knowing that there is a God saves nobody. It’s faith that saves as reiterated through the New Testament. How does one come to the faith?
Romans 10:17
So faith comes from hearing, and hearing through the word of Christ.

The question I asked you was how come God didn’t overlook the sins of the unsaved before Jesus. People were saved before Jesus because God gave them faith. The verse I gave you showed that God overlooked the sins of some before Jesus died because the sins at that time were unpayed for. Also if you think that someone can save themselves that’s Pelagianism which is heretical and an unorthodox teaching.

 

[friend of]

It also states in Revelation that multitudes which no man can count will be before God's throne asking for justice in the last days

 

[Tania11]

It also states in Revelation that multitudes which no man can count will be before God's throne asking for justice in the last days

Thank you. I was just reading this verse the other day.
Do you think maybe I shouldn't think too deeply and freak out about the word few in a parable? Maybe it's written to be dramatic in order to make a point on how important faith alone is?

 

[Gregory Thompson]

I know God didn't have to save any. I'm still getting saddened over the fact that not many are going to be saved and are unable to respond because of their nature. John 3:16 used to comfort me but after reading Matthew 22:14, I'm kind of in the dumps.

How do I get out of this?

Called and Chosen applies to those born again.

 

[GodsGrace101]

Romans 1:19-20 is talking about how people are guilty even if they have never heard the Law. Knowing that there is a God saves nobody. It’s faith that saves as reiterated through the New Testament. How does one come to the faith?
Romans 10:17
So faith comes from hearing, and hearing through the word of Christ.

The question I asked you was how come God didn’t overlook the sins of the unsaved before Jesus. People were saved before Jesus because God gave them faith. The verse I gave you showed that God overlooked the sins of some before Jesus died because the sins at that time were unpayed for. Also if you think that someone can save themselves that’s Pelagianism which is heretical and an unorthodox teaching.

Hi Ilikecats (BTW...so do I)
It's past midnight here.
I don't know what you mean by God not overlooking the sins of unsaved persons before Jesus.

For now, I'll just say that God offers faith as a gift,,,and we have to accept it.

As for Pelagianism....yeah... everything has a label in calvinism. I can say with confidence that calvinism is heretical because it changes the nature of God.

A pelagian is heretical because the early church taught this. So you accept SOME teachings of the early church...why not accept the teaching that WE get to accept God as our salvation and it is NOT GOD that predestines us to heaven or hell?

I don't know ANY Christian that thinks he could save himself. JESUS SAVES US through our faith in Him.
I guess you missed my verse of John 15:5-6 ??

As to what I can't understand,,,you could please try again using different words, or post the scripture, or drop it,,,whatever you wish,,,but it'll have to wait till tomorrow. Past midnight here....

 

[GodsGrace101]

Called and Chosen applies to those born again.

Simply stated and well stated.

 

[klutedavid]

I know God didn't have to save any. I'm still getting saddened over the fact that not many are going to be saved and are unable to respond because of their nature. John 3:16 used to comfort me but after reading Matthew 22:14, I'm kind of in the dumps.

How do I get out of this?

Is Jesus in Matthew 22:14 referring to the Jews only or to the wider group of Jew and Gentile?

Is Jesus in Matthew 22:14 referring to the difference between the few called; John the Baptist, Paul, the apostles, e.t.c. And the 'many' called by preaching the gospel?

Only a remnant of Israel are saved but little mention of the Gentiles in the text.

 

[dqhall]

I think we have underestimated the depraved state that the world is in.

Sodom was gone in a moment.

Society is headed there fast.

Should we not be eternally grateful that we have found His mercy?

So were those living in or near Pompeii, Akrotiri, Krakatoa, and Hiroshima all gone in a few minutes. A tsunami killed over 200,000 along the shores of the Indian Ocean in 2004. Were these any worse than others? Were they making plans for the future when they did not know they had no future?

 

[dqhall]

I know God didn't have to save any. I'm still getting saddened over the fact that not many are going to be saved and are unable to respond because of their nature. John 3:16 used to comfort me but after reading Matthew 22:14, I'm kind of in the dumps.

How do I get out of this?

Jesus taught that if someone gives a cup of cold water to a disciple, he or she would be rewarded.

Jesus gave people the option to feed and clothe the righteous poor, or any poor and to visit the sick and imprisoned. These things might cause one to receive blessings.

I once heard the story of a man who had become homeless in the desert drinking large amounts of alcohol and using LSD. I expected his brain would have been destroyed, but he found God and gave up the drinking and drugs. He became an HVAC repairman. He spoke clearly and was in his right mind.