Following God? WHO DOES IT !?

[SpiritPsalmist]

Originally posted by DaveKerwin
I don't see what you are asking.

I was making the point that too many of us have lazy faith, and don't truely follow God. That people who tightly follow after God are in a minority when it comes to christianity, which is the opposite of the way it should be. What would the point of that poll be? I don't see one.

Yes, the end will come when the message is spread. But the message is not spread. We are not fulfilling the great commission ( matt 28:19 ) People are dying without Jesus and we just sit back and watch.

Dave,

I hear your concern and understand completely. While I too see a lot of laziness in the church, I see a lot of Godly activity as well.

I attend a church that believes in the prophetic. I'd say in the last year or so the majority of the Words coming forth have been admonishing the people to get their lives straight. God has stated that He has lit the path and made the way straight, and we're to walk in it. Obedience is vital.

The problem I see the most, but not with all, is that a lot of people don't really have a relationship with God. They've accepted Him as their personal savior and they hope their going to heaven, but they don't KNOW Him.

When they pray, they have their "God do" list and then when their finished with the list, they say goodbuy to God and get up and go about their daily stuff. They don't sit and wait for His reply to their list or their lives. They don't commune with Him. They don't know how.

When we fall in love with someone we usually hang on their every word. We change our lives to be near them. We change our interests to their interests. We dress the way they like. We bring them things that they like.

We need to do this with God too. We need to fall in love with Him. Then, and only then, will we begin to allow Him to conform us into His image. An image so bright the the world cannot help but see.

Wherever I go, and I'm always in gratitude to Him, whenever it does, people seem to instintively know that I know God. Unless they ask, I generally will not say that I'm a Christian. But they know. I know other people like this too.

Some consider me weird but when they need prayer. . .

Just keep letting your light shine brother. Teach people how to fall in love with God. I believe that is what will make the difference the most. Because when we fall in love, we change, and in turn the world around us changes. That's the way Jesus did it.

God bless!

 

[SUNSTONE]

Relationship with God!

Thats an awesome thing.
Way more times than not, God is teaching me before I get to a surmon in church that is speaking on the same thing.
He is getting me to a point that I know His voice.
He is an awe inspiring coach that sets an example for me to go after.
Showing me things to come if I want them.
He shows an image, and says "Do you want it?" I say "Oh yeah", "Well then, come and get it! Its right here waiting for you!"

It takes work, but its well worth it, and alot of fun!

 

[Flibertyjibbet]

I think we have a Laodician church today because the preachers are afraid to preach THE WHOLE Bible. And those that do preach a balanced, complete gospel...complete with...godly sorrow leadeth to repentence, that sin IS sin, that if we don't repent, then we go to hell, that their is a HELL, that God is holy, holy, HOLY, and He told us we are to strive to be Holy too.

We've enough of the sloppy agape Gospel. We need the Word of God...all of it ...to be preached with Holy Spirit unction, annointing and zeal. Yes God is love, but He is also holy and hates sin....and He is God. No more Santa God...

Just my humble opinion....albeit a bit fiery

Blessings,

Robin

 

[Rising_Suns]

dave,

great post man. I agree with you 100%..this is the reason why i posted my "most people go to hell" post, heh. That rattled some nerves.

By the way, thanks for sending me that "4 spiritual laws" pamphlet (it was you right?). I passed it on to the pastor at one of my churches and gave me the green light to go through with my ministry program. He even told me that the church would pay for anything I needed! How awesome is that...now we can finally reach our arms out to the general public in atlanta through this program.

 

Flibertyjibbet,

great point as well...there are way too many preachers making christianity out to be this loose, wide-road, light, feathery type thing where all you have to do is stand up and utter a few words to be saved. God is a God of love, but also a God of wrath and we should fear His ability to cast us into hell. I don't see anyone preaching about the other side really.

 

[Andrew]

"great post man. I agree with you 100%..this is the reason why i posted my "most people go to hell" post, heh. That rattled some nerves."

well in the Bible, the redeemed are usu described as "multitudes that no one can number", whereas you dont find the same treatment for those cast into hell. IWO, I believe more will be saved then lost. I believe God beig God will win much more than the devil.

"God is a God of love, but also a God of wrath and we should fear His ability to cast us into hell. I don't see anyone preaching about the other sideÊreally."

That's becos we are now given a ministry of reconciliation, not condemnation. ie we win others over by the love of God thru Christ's work, not by 'threatening' them with hell. Of cse, hell is real and we shld mention it, but it cannot be the focus.

2 Cor 5: All this is from God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation: 19that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting men's sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation. 20We are therefore Christ's ambassadors, as though God were making his appeal through us. We implore you on Christ's behalf: Be reconciled to God. 21God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.

 

[DaveKerwin]

Originally posted by Rising_Suns
dave,

great post man. I agree with you 100%..this is the reason why i posted my "most people go to hell" post, heh. That rattled some nerves.

By the way, thanks for sending me that "4 spiritual laws" pamphlet (it was you right?). I passed it on to the pastor at one of my churches and gave me the green light to go through with my ministry program. He even told me that the church would pay for anything I needed! How awesome is that...now we can finally reach our arms out to the general public in atlanta through this program.

Thanks. Yeah, that was me, I am glad you can use it ! That tract was put out by Campus Crusade for Christ. If there is a local college, see if they have a chapter there and maybe you can team up with their missions there. Either way, that is awesome news ! And the church will support you financially in this? Praise God !

 

[DaveKerwin]

Originally posted by Andrew
"great post man. I agree with you 100%..this is the reason why i posted my "most people go to hell" post, heh. That rattled some nerves."

well in the Bible, the redeemed are usu described as "multitudes that no one can number", whereas you dont find the same treatment for those cast into hell. IWO, I believe more will be saved then lost. I believe God beig God will win much more than the devil.

"God is a God of love, but also a God of wrath and we should fear His ability to cast us into hell. I don't see anyone preaching about the other sideÊreally."

That's becos we are now given a ministry of reconciliation, not condemnation. ie we win others over by the love of God thru Christ's work, not by 'threatening' them with hell. Of cse, hell is real and we shld mention it, but it cannot be the focus.

2 Cor 5: All this is from God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation: 19that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting men's sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation. 20We are therefore Christ's ambassadors, as though God were making his appeal through us. We implore you on Christ's behalf: Be reconciled to God. 21God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.

Andrew, I tend to lean closer to your side on this. I agree that God should be feared, but with our new covenant, we are no longer slaves again to fear, rather God has given us a spirit of sonship by which we call him abba father.

 

[Rising_Suns]

Well all i'm saying, like Flibertyjibbet is saying, is that some preachers pick and choose what they want from the bible and mold it to their own vision. I'm not saying it's wrong to emphasise the lighter side, but it can get dangerous if you neglect the bible's message as a whole.

 

[DaveKerwin]

Originally posted by Rising_Suns
Well all i'm saying, like Flibertyjibbet is saying, is that some preachers pick and choose what they want from the bible and mold it to their own vision. I'm not saying it's wrong to emphasise the lighter side, but it can get dangerous if you neglect the bible's message as a whole.

I agree bro.

We can relate this to evangelism. One focus can be far better than another. I can run down the street saying everyone is gonna burn, or I can tell them instead that Jesus loves them and that he died for their sins. Both are true, but one is better at that stage. As we learn more of who God is, we better know God can take us out if he wanted to. He brought us into this world, so he can... lol

 

[Rising_Suns]

yes, you're right...it's really all about your audience that designates what you will initially emphasise.

Like this one church in athens georgia just spent thousands remodeling the gym into a "cool" hang out. The place now has pool tables, a coffee shop, 20+ Playstation 2's, live DJ's, modelling contests...and they even had a fear factor thing last wednesday where they blended up organs for people to drink.

Anyway, this new movement in this church has attracted ALOT of kids...the youth group grew from 20 people to like 500 people. Atleast 15 or so people get saved every week. It's a pretty good idea actually, to appeal to the kids like this...Their target is mostly to teenage non-believers, and they certainly seem effective with attracting this audience. I'm just curious as to how they implement the word in with all the fun activites, which is why i'm driving up to athens next week to see this service with my own eyes. I may even bring my pastor along if he wants to see as well....we will get some neat ideas at the least anyway.

 

[Flibertyjibbet]

I think good ole fashioned 'hell fire and brimstone' should be preached first...God's displeasure of sin...what sin is and how awful are it's consequences should be preached and understood first. Then hopefully, conviction...WONDERFUL conviction takes place in the heart...THEN the love of God as demonstrated in John 3:16 should be preached...and understood. This way the DEPTH of the love of God will be appreciated and apprehended much more sincerely and committedly when one realizes the depth of sin, and God's wrath against it.

Just my opinion

Blessings,

Robin

 

[Pastor N.B.]

Personnaly I say Amen to the Laodicean Rebuke from most here so far! The reason that the Lord has not come back yet, is that His 'servants' [are]
'lukewarm' in LOVE FOR HIM! (if you don't believe it, study Eze. 9-have you ever heard a sermon of that chapter?)

And as far as the Master's ministry go? It is all very 'tidy' & prissy, lovey dovey, & a lot of love talk, talk, only! How many minister's of this day even use in the adding of new members the verse of Christ's Word in Matt:28:20? It is TOTALLY true that a 1/2 'g'ospel (that is NO GOSPEL) is preached from verse 19 about babtizing all over the 'nations'. They go under the water unborn sinners & come up unborn sinners. And it seems to be a 'secret' as to whose fault that is? See Eze. 33:6-9 for who will help fill hell!

But WHAT IS THE MASTER'S COMMANDMENT? Verse 20 ibide. "TEACHING THEM TO [OBSERVE ALL THINGS WHATSOEVER I HAVE COMMANDED YOU] ... [EVEN UNTO THE *END OF THE WORLD]." Seems that 'hell' is to 'mean' & 'hatful' for these modern day Minister's to teach, or even hardly mention anymore? Is it any wonder we see the world going to pots with the Master saying that we are 'sickening' & [will be spewed out] in Rev. 3:16-17's verses? (try Luke 12:47-48 for the REAL guilty ones!)

And if one really wants to know what the Lord's HOT HELL is all about? Check Obadiah 16's last part of the verse!
"AND THEY SHALL SWALLOW DOWN, AND [THEY SHALL BE AS THOUGH THEY HAD NOT BEEN]." Yes, The GodHead would have [ALL] realize that the DECISION that they make in Baptism is the complete opposite to this verse, [IF] they so choose! ----P/N/B/

 

[DaveKerwin]

Originally posted by Flibertyjibbet
I think good ole fashioned 'hell fire and brimstone' should be preached first...God's displeasure of sin...what sin is and how awful are it's consequences should be preached and understood first. Then hopefully, conviction...WONDERFUL conviction takes place in the heart...THEN the love of God as demonstrated in John 3:16 should be preached...and understood. This way the DEPTH of the love of God will be appreciated and apprehended much more sincerely and committedly when one realizes the depth of sin, and God's wrath against it.

Just my opinion

Blessings,

Robin

I have done evangelism under many different circumstances and many different situations, and I have never found preaching hell to be a fruit producing method. I am not afraid to tell people what their sin has earned them, but there is a tact involved in telling them that. It need to be balanced with the notion that God is madly in love with them, so much so tha the died to save them.

 

[DaveKerwin]

Originally posted by Pastor N.B.
Personnaly I say Amen to the Laodicean Rebuke from most here so far! The reason that the Lord has not come back yet, is that His 'servants' [are]
'lukewarm' in LOVE FOR HIM! (if you don't believe it, study Eze. 9-have you ever heard a sermon of that chapter?)

And as far as the Master's ministry go? It is all very 'tidy' & prissy, lovey dovey, & a lot of love talk, talk, only! How many minister's of this day even use in the adding of new members the verse of Christ's Word in Matt:28:20? It is TOTALLY true that a 1/2 'g'ospel (that is NO GOSPEL) is preached from verse 19 about babtizing all over the 'nations'. They go under the water unborn sinners & come up unborn sinners. And it seems to be a 'secret' as to whose fault that is? See Eze. 33:6-9 for who will help fill hell!

But WHAT IS THE MASTER'S COMMANDMENT? Verse 20 ibide. "TEACHING THEM TO [OBSERVE ALL THINGS WHATSOEVER I HAVE COMMANDED YOU] ... [EVEN UNTO THE *END OF THE WORLD]." Seems that 'hell' is to 'mean' & 'hatful' for these modern day Minister's to teach, or even hardly mention anymore? Is it any wonder we see the world going to pots with the Master saying that we are 'sickening' & [will be spewed out] in Rev. 3:16-17's verses? (try Luke 12:47-48 for the REAL guilty ones!)

And if one really wants to know what the Lord's HOT HELL is all about? Check Obadiah 16's last part of the verse!
"AND THEY SHALL SWALLOW DOWN, AND [THEY SHALL BE AS THOUGH THEY HAD NOT BEEN]." Yes, The GodHead would have [ALL] realize that the DECISION that they make in Baptism is the complete opposite to this verse, [IF] they so choose! ----P/N/B/

You cannot teach a person about the Lord's commands until they profess faith. Thats why part of the great commission tells us to make disciples. Disciples are disciplined followers of Christ. Before they can follow Christ, they need to know him. And I can speak from experience when I say that preaching Jesus is the way to evangelize, not preaching God's punishment. God's direct solution to the sin problem was not hell, the direct solution was Jesus Christ, so thats what I talk about with people.

 

[DaveKerwin]

Originally posted by Rising_Suns
yes, you're right...it's really all about your audience that designates what you will initially emphasise.

Like this one church in athens georgia just spent thousands remodeling the gym into a "cool" hang out. The place now has pool tables, a coffee shop, 20+ Playstation 2's, live DJ's, modelling contests...and they even had a fear factor thing last wednesday where they blended up organs for people to drink.

Anyway, this new movement in this church has attracted ALOT of kids...the youth group grew from 20 people to like 500 people. Atleast 15 or so people get saved every week. It's a pretty good idea actually, to appeal to the kids like this...Their target is mostly to teenage non-believers, and they certainly seem effective with attracting this audience. I'm just curious as to how they implement the word in with all the fun activites, which is why i'm driving up to athens next week to see this service with my own eyes. I may even bring my pastor along if he wants to see as well....we will get some neat ideas at the least anyway.

Wow, that is awesome that you are going to Georgia to check it out. Let me give a few words of warning. They probably host a seeker friendly night that offers mild spiritual growth. Then they would offer other things probably on an off-night for deeper growth. If I was you, I would prepare the questions you have and ask them, don't leave without asking. I work with the youth at my church, and we have a junior high program with 50 kids, and a senior high program with over 100. We are very seeker friendly, but we offer small groups for those who are ready for growth in their relationship with God. If you walked in the doors on a typical monday night, and saw what we did, you would probably feel that we don't offer enough for the students. BUT... if you got to truely understand our program, then you would see the full spectrum. Just wanted to throw that out there before you go. I think its very cool you are checking it out.

 

[Rising_Suns]

hey dave,

yeah i talked with my friend who goes to that church and he said that the "cool" and friendly service is one day, then they have another service on sunday which is more focussed on prayer and worship than having fun. So like your program, this church seems to also minister to anyone, no matter how far you are along your spiritual growth. We'll see.

 

[Flibertyjibbet]

Originally posted by DaveKerwin
I have done evangelism under many different circumstances and many different situations, and I have never found preaching hell to be a fruit producing method. I am not afraid to tell people what their sin has earned them, but there is a tact involved in telling them that. It need to be balanced with the notion that God is madly in love with them, so much so tha the died to save them.

 

Hey Dave, I thought that that was what I said ?

I believe in balance.  You have to know why you need salvation...(your sin...God's justice..holiness), in order to understand your need of Him.  Preaching the full gospel entells telling the WHOLE story of God's grace and forgiveness, starting at the beginning...God is a Holy God...Man is sinful...etc.   Again, one cannot fully appreciate the love of God unless they fully comprehend the majesty, justice and holiness of God.  One is the left hand, the other the right. 

 

Blessings,

 

Robin

 

[Andrew]

"
I think good ole fashioned 'hell fire and brimstone' should be preached first...God's displeasure of sin...what sin is and how awful are it's consequences should be preached and understood first. Then hopefully, conviction...WONDERFUL conviction takes place in the heart...THEN the love of God as demonstrated in John 3:16 should be preached...and understood. This way the DEPTH of the love of God will be appreciated and apprehended much more sincerely and committedly when one realizes the depth of sin, and God's wrath against it. "

well my church's membership soared when my Pastor started preaching on the pure grace of God and his love. Yes we do mention the reality of hell but that makes up only like 1% of the sermon. And as I mentioned b4, God gave us a ministry of reconciliation not condemnation and hell-fire ministries. So I'll stick with the Word.

 

[Flibertyjibbet]

Hi Andrew; as I've stated before, it's not either/or, but both are the full counsel of God...the Word of God. To preach one aspect of the gospel without the rest is to deceive, whether intentionally or otherwise.

Church growth means nothing to me. It's the integrity towards the Word of God lived out in believers that is of eternal worth.

Dead churches, 'gay' churches and miriads of other churches are growing. In our little town, the fastest growing church is 'the user-friendly' social club church.. The ones that preach dying to self, the holiness of God (without degating the love of God) are the smallest. Jesus bids us 'Come and die' who wants to hear that? (Those that are called...though they be few...hear, and in faith...believe)

Sorry to step on toes. It's just that I've heard enough sloppy agape that is sending souls to hell, to choke a mule.

Blessings,

Robin