Focused discussion--Are the Sabbaths of Col 2 weekly or yearly?

[BobRyan]

BUT it was DEFINED from day one in "animal sacrifice"
​

BFA
God clearly commanded the recipients of the sabbath to offer animal sacrifices in conjunction with their sabbath observance.

The OT age after the fall of man - all worship was based in animal sacrifice. But that is not tru in Gen 2:3 when God BLESSED the Seventh day and MADE it holy.

God affirms in Ex 20:11 that Gen 2:3 fact alone is what makes the Sabbath holy "For in SIX DAYS the LORD MADE... and RESTED the seventh day THEREFORE the Lord BLESSED the Sabbath day AND made it Holy". Again pointing back to a pre-sin pre-animal sacrifice time for the MAKING of the Sabbath holy.

Thus eliminating the idea that when MADE it was created with liturgy involving animal sacrifice.

In Ex 20 there is NO animal sacrifice specified for Sabbath. -- as written IN STONE.

in Gen 2:3 NO animal sacrifice for God's Holy Day.

in Is 66:22-23 - in the New Earth - NO animal sacrifice mentioned as from "Sabbath to Sabbath" ALL mankind comes before God to Worship.

As for "new moon" in the New Earth for ALL MANKIND - well by the time you get to Rev 21:1-3 you have TWO Earth creation events to memorialize not just ONE.

Hmm. Something to think about.

The point remains.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

Yes, we see the passover as a memorial to God providing a lamb for the salvation of man throughout scripture.

There is no question that as Paul said in 1Cor 5 "Christ our PASSOVER has been slain" and as we see in the very inception of Passover -- it's liturgy is defined by animal sacrifice.

That is not true for Gen 2:3 or for Ex 20:8-11 or for Is 66:22-23 - so while we do have the comparison that God was speaking in those cases - we do not have the "defined by animal sacrifice" componant being the same in both cases.

Thus it is not likely that Daniel in Babylon had an animal sacrifice "liturgy" to use on Sabbath but any time he would celebrate passover -- he certainly WOULD have such a liturgy.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[RND]

There is no question that as Paul said in 1Cor 5 "Christ our PASSOVER has been slain" and as we see in the very inception of Passover -- it's liturgy is defined by animal sacrifice.

That is not true for Gen 2:3 or for Ex 20:8-11 or for Is 66:22-23 - so while we do have the comparison that God was speaking in those cases - we do not have the "defined by animal sacrifice" componant being the same in both cases.

Thus it is not likely that Daniel in Babylon had an animal sacrifice "liturgy" to use on Sabbath but any time he would celebrate passover -- he certainly WOULD have such a liturgy.

in Christ,

Bob

Bob, I'm confused. What does me saying that the Passover is a memorial to God for providing the lamb of salvation to mankind have to do with the sabbath? Sabbath is a memorial to creation. I've never suggested anything different.

 

[Byfaithalone1]

The OT age after the fall of man - all worship was based in animal sacrifice. But that is not tru in Gen 2:3 when God BLESSED the Seventh day and MADE it holy.

This is an unsubstantiated claim. We have no Biblical basis for concluding that Adam and Eve set aside one day out of seven for the purpose of rest, but we do have a Biblical basis for believing that animal sacrifices began during the days of Adam and Eve.

If you would like to individually believe that Adam and Eve observed a sabbath--absent any Biblical evidence--why would you not also conclude that Adam and Eve followed God's instructions regarding burnt offerings to be made during the sabbath, especially when we know that burnt offerings were already being made during the days of Adam and Eve?

It would seem that you believe that the Bible teaches that there were two very different seventh-day sabbaths, one that included animal sacrifices and one that did not. I will await Scriptural support for this man-made claim.

God affirms in Ex 20:11 that Gen 2:3 fact alone is what makes the Sabbath holy

Interestingly, the word "alone" is not found here. We know from Deuteronomy 5 that the sabbath was not given to man solely as a reminder of creation, but also as a reminder of the exodus from Egypt.

Thus eliminating the idea that when MADE it was created with liturgy involving animal sacrifice

Actually that idea remains very much on the table. Throughout the God-given instructions regarding sabbath observance, we find commands relating to animal sacrifices that are to be made on the seventh day. You seem to claim that there were two different sabbaths, one that included sacrifices and another that did not. However--like your claim that Adam and Eve kept the sabbath--you've offered no Biblical evidence to support your theories. Should we base our view of the seal of God and the mark of the beast merely on man-made assumptions?

In Ex 20 there is NO animal sacrifice specified for Sabbath. -- as written IN STONE.

We find this God-given requirement clearly articulated in Numbers 28, 1 Chronicle 23:31, 2 Chronicles 2:4, 2 Chronicles 31:3, Ezekiel 45:17 and Ezekiel 46.

in Gen 2:3 NO animal sacrifice for God's Holy Day.

In Genesis 2:3, there is no mention of a sabbath command at all.

BFA

 

[Byfaithalone1]

Sabbath is a memorial to creation . . .

. . . . and a reminder of the Israelites' exodus from Egypt.

BFA

 

[RND]

This is an unsubstantiated claim. We have no Biblical basis for concluding that Adam and Eve set aside one day out of seven for the purpose of rest, but we do have a Biblical basis for believing that animal sacrifices began during the days of Adam and Eve.

If you would like to individually believe that Adam and Eve observed a sabbath--absent any Biblical evidence--why would you not also conclude that Adam and Eve followed God's instructions regarding burnt offerings to be made during the sabbath, especially when we know that burnt offerings were already being made during the days of Adam and Eve?

It would seem that you believe that the Bible teaches that there were two very different seventh-day sabbaths, one that included animal sacrifices and one that did not. I will await Scriptural support for this man-made claim.



Interestingly, the word "alone" is not found here. We know from Deuteronomy 5 that the sabbath was not given to man solely as a reminder of creation, but also as a reminder of the exodus from Egypt.



Actually that idea remains very much on the table. Throughout the God-given instructions regarding sabbath observance, we find commands relating to animal sacrifices that are to be made on the seventh day. You seem to claim that there were two different sabbaths, one that included sacrifices and another that did not. However--like your claim that Adam and Eve kept the sabbath--you've offered no Biblical evidence to support your theories. Should we base our view of the seal of God and the mark of the beast merely on man-made assumptions?



We find this God-given requirement clearly articulated in Numbers 28, 1 Chronicle 23:31, 2 Chronicles 2:4, 2 Chronicles 31:3, Ezekiel 45:17 and Ezekiel 46.



In Genesis 2:3, there is no mention of a sabbath command at all.

BFA

You should always identify who you are quoting. Always.

 

[RND]

. . . . and a reminder of the Israelites' exodus from Egypt.

BFA

Deuteronomy was written 40 years after the Exodus. Was Moshe confused? Did the idea of the sabbath change?

 

[Byfaithalone1]

Deuteronomy was written 40 years after the Exodus.

Your point is?

Was Moshe confused?

No. But I am intrigued that you would question Moses in order to bolster your agenda.

Did the idea of the sabbath change?

From the time that the sabbath was given to the Israelites, the seventh-day sabbath was to be a reminder of God as creator and God as liberator.

Now, it would appear that there are SDAs who believe that the idea of the sabbath changed, especially when they argue that God initially instituted sabbath #1 which did not include animal sacrifices and then later instituted sabbath #2 which included animal sacrifices.

Still other SDAs might argue that the God-given sabbath rules really don't matter anymore; that what matters most is that a person rests and worships on the seventh day; and that it is now OK to travel on the sabbath, to kindle fires on the sabbath and to pursue one's own interests on the sabbath.

Will the real sabbath please stand up?

BFA

 

[RND]

Your point is?

That Deuteronomy was written 40 years after the Exodus.

No. But I am intrigued that you would question Moses in order to bolster your agenda.

I have no agenda BFA1 and your implication that I do is unnecessary. I don't question your motivation so please, don't question mine.

Moshe certainly wasn't confused as to why the sabbath was instituted and why it was to be remembered, so I'm glad you recognize that. So now we have something that needs to be hashed out. One reason we are given for the sabbath is a memorial to creation, the other is for a memorial of the Exodus.

November 11th, Veterans Day, was originally called "Armistice Day" "Remembrance Day" to commemorate the end of WWI. It's now called "Veterans Day." Does this change the original meaning behind the day or make it impossible to remember the Armistice?

Isn't it possible that the day can have "dual" purpose and significance? Jews seem to think so and so do I.

From the time that the sabbath was given to the Israelites, the seventh-day sabbath was to be a reminder of God as creator and God as liberator.

Right you are and I see no difference today myself. The sabbath memorializes God's creative endeavors which draw us to His awesome power to create us anew in Jesus, and the sabbath memorializes God's redemptive power which draw us to His awesome willingness to save from sin. I'm OK with that.

Now, it would appear that there are SDAs who believe that the idea of the sabbath changed, especially when they argue that God initially instituted sabbath #1 which did not include animal sacrifices and then later instituted sabbath #2 which included animal sacrifices.

Sure, that is certainly true of some SDA, just as it might be true for some Lutherans or Calvinists to have different opinions regarding certain scriptures. We're not all the same and lots of us have different opinions. But none of that changes the significance of the scripture.

Still other SDAs might argue that the God-given sabbath rules really don't matter anymore; that what matters most is that a person rests and worships on the seventh day; and that it is now OK to travel on the sabbath, to kindle fires on the sabbath and to pursue one's own interests on the sabbath.

Sure, there are lots of different opinions regarding the sabbath, just as there are with non-sabbatarians" that have concluded that the sabbath is indeed on Saturday but they "keep" Sunday for a variety of different reasons. "Let everyone be persuaded in their own mind."

Will the real sabbath please stand up?

I'm afraid that's as easy to pigeon-hole as a Calvinist and T-U-L-I-P. Thank God there are a variety of opinions in the church to draw from and to learn from.

 

[Byfaithalone1]

That Deuteronomy was written 40 years after the Exodus.

Relevance?

Moshe certainly wasn't confused as to why the sabbath was instituted and why it was to be remembered, so I'm glad you recognize that.

Do you recognize that? Moses clearly articulates that the sabbath was given--at least in part--as a reminder of the exodus from Egypt. Was Moses correct or incorrect?

So now we have something that needs to be hashed out.

Actually, there is no hashing out needed. Either we believe that Moses' words are true and we accept that the sabbath was given to man--at least in part--as a reminder of the exodus from Egypt, or we reject Moses' words and we conclude that the sabbath was given to man only as a reminder of creation. Your post reveals that you may be willing to accept that the sabbath was multi-faceted and was given to man for more than one purpose.

One reason we are given for the sabbath is a memorial to creation, the other is for a memorial of the Exodus.

I believe that these ideas are not mutually exclusive.

Isn't it possible that the day can have "dual" purpose and significance?

I believe it does have a dual purpose, and I do not quickly brush aside the fact that the sabbath was to serve--at least in part--as a reminder of the exodus from Egypt. Since there is no Biblical evidence that God gave the sabbath to man prior to the exodus, and because one of the stated purposes of the sabbath was that it was to serve as a reminder of the exodus, I find no Biblical basis for concluding that the sabbath was given to man prior to the Israelites' exodus from Egypt.

Q: Do you believe that the sabbath always included animal sacrifices, or do you believe that the sabbath initially did not include animal sacrifices and that these were added later? What is the Biblical basis for your position on this subject?

BFA

 

[RND]

Relevance?

Yes it is.

Do you recognize that? Moses clearly articulates that the sabbath was given--at least in part--as a reminder of the exodus from Egypt. Was Moses correct or incorrect?

Of course I do! I have no problem with the fact that the sabbath is both a memorial to creation and a memorial to the Exodus.

Actually, there is no hashing out needed. Either we believe that Moses' words are true and we accept that the sabbath was given to man--at least in part--as a reminder of the exodus from Egypt, or we reject Moses' words and we conclude that the sabbath was given to man only as a reminder of creation. Your post reveals that you may be willing to accept that the sabbath was multi-faceted and was given to man for more than one purpose.

Reveals? I see no problem in recognizing the dual natures that the sabbath employs.

I believe that these ideas are not mutually exclusive.

I see them as complimentary.

I believe it does have a dual purpose, and I do not quickly brush aside the fact that the sabbath was to serve--at least in part--as a reminder of the exodus from Egypt. Since there is no Biblical evidence that God gave the sabbath to man prior to the exodus, and because one of the stated purposes of the sabbath was that it was to serve as a reminder of the exodus, I find no Biblical basis for concluding that the sabbath was given to man prior to the Israelites' exodus from Egypt.

I actually see that the sabbath was being forced on Pharaoh in Exodus 5 myself.

Q: Do you believe that the sabbath always included animal sacrifices,

That depends. When the sabbath was first observed? No. As part of the evidence of the covenant. Yes.

or do you believe that the sabbath initially did not include animal sacrifices and that these were added later?

Yes.

What is the Biblical basis for your position on this subject?

The commandment to offer a continual burnt offering in the sanctuary everyday was for the remembrance of atonement and came after the Ten Commandments were given and were to serve as a specific purpose in remembering the work of the Lord. The commandment to offer an additional sacrifice on the sabbath was also for a specific purpose. I believe it was for remembrance of the Lord's sacrifice.

Matthew Henry states:

"Numbers 28:9-15 Every sabbath day, beside the two lambs offered for the daily burnt-offering, there must be two more offered. This teaches us to double our devotions on sabbath days, for so the duty of the day requires. The sabbath rest is to be observed, in order more closely to apply ourselves to the sabbath work, which ought to fill up the sabbath time. The offerings in the new moons showed thankfulness for the renewing of earthly blessings: when we rejoice in the gifts of providence, we must make the sacrifice of Christ, that great gift of special grace, the fountain and spring-head of our joy. And the worship performed in the new moons is made typical of gospel solemnities, Isa 66:23. As the moon borrows light from the sun, and is renewed by its influences; so the church borrows her light from Jesus Christ, who is the Sun of righteousness, renewing the state of the church, especially under the gospel."

 

[Byfaithalone1]

In my last post, I wrote the following:

Since there is no Biblical evidence that God gave the sabbath to man prior to the exodus, and because one of the stated purposes of the sabbath was that it was to serve as a reminder of the exodus, I find no Biblical basis for concluding that the sabbath was given to man prior to the Israelites' exodus from Egypt.
​

Do you believe that the sabbath was given to man prior to the exodus? If so, in what way could a person remember the exodus if it had not yet taken place.

Further, do you believe that the sabbath was given to man as a sign of the old covenant? If so, would we not also conclude that the sabbath was given to man at nearly the same time (and not before) that the old covenant was given?

Yes it is.

What is the relevance?

That depends. When the sabbath was first observed? No. As part of the evidence of the covenant. Yes.

So do you believe that there are two different sabbaths: sabbath #1 that did not include animal sacrifices and sabbath #2 that did include them? If so, where can we find Biblical evidence that God gave two different sabbaths? Where is the Biblical evidence regarding the starting and ending points of sabbath #1 and the starting and ending points of sabbath #2?

The commandment to offer a continual burnt offering in the sanctuary everyday was for the remembrance of atonement and came after the Ten Commandments were given and were to serve as a specific purpose in remembering the work of the Lord.

Animal sacrifices began long before the ten commandments were given; they began during the lifetime of Adam and Eve. Did Adam and Eve offer animal sacrifices as a part of their sabbath observance? What does the Bible say?

Matthew Henry states:

Do you consider Matthew Henry to be an authoritative source of truth? Should we find his writings to be persuasive? If so, why?

BFA

 

[RND]

In my last post, I wrote the following:

Since there is no Biblical evidence that God gave the sabbath to man prior to the exodus, and because one of the stated purposes of the sabbath was that it was to serve as a reminder of the exodus, I find no Biblical basis for concluding that the sabbath was given to man prior to the Israelites' exodus from Egypt.
​

Do you believe that the sabbath was given to man prior to the exodus?

Yes. I believe the sabbath was given to man before the exodus out of Egypt. Adam and Eve, Noah, Abraham, etc., knew the sabbath in my view. The COI had begun resting in Egypt on there own, without permission, which is what made Pharaoh go nuts.

If so, in what way could a person remember the exodus if it had not yet taken place.

Well, that depends on what one's understanding is of the reason it was given for in the first place I suppose. Up until it was mentioned in Deuteronomy as for remembrance of the exodus, it would have been for the reason mentioned in Exodus 20. As a memorial to creation.

Further, do you believe that the sabbath was given to man as a sign of the old covenant?

No. The sabbath was part of the covenant, not a sign of the covenant. In the "words of the covenant" that God spoke to the Children of Israel the sabbath was part of that covenant.

Exd 19:5 Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth [is] mine:

Exd 31:16 Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, [for] a perpetual covenant.

Isa 56:6 Also the sons of the stranger, that join themselves to the LORD, to serve him, and to love the name of the LORD, to be his servants, every one that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and taketh hold of my covenant;

If so, would we not also conclude that the sabbath was given to man at nearly the same time (and not before) that the old covenant was given?

Well, in that I don't agree that the sabbath was a sign of the covenant but part of the covenant I would have to disagree.

What is the relevance?

The dual purpose of sabbath observance.

So do you believe that there are two different sabbaths: sabbath #1 that did not include animal sacrifices and sabbath #2 that did include them? If so, where can we find Biblical evidence that God gave two different sabbaths? Where is the Biblical evidence regarding the starting and ending points of sabbath #1 and the starting and ending points of sabbath #2?

There were lots of sabbaths. There was just one "seventh-day" sabbath. The continual burnt offering sacrifices were to be performed everyday, not just the sabbath. The fact that those sacrifices were "doubled" on the sabbath I think has meaning such as what MH expressed.

Animal sacrifices began long before the ten commandments were given; they began during the lifetime of Adam and Eve. Did Adam and Eve offer animal sacrifices as a part of their sabbath observance? What does the Bible say?

I think the Bible is silent on this point but we can assume that sacrifices were made on special days as part of special commemorations.

Do you consider Matthew Henry to be an authoritative source of truth?

I find MH to be a fairly good source for resource material. "Authoritative?" In what sense? Canonical?

Should we find his writings to be persuasive? If so, why?

What is the Spirit telling you?

 

[Byfaithalone1]

Yes. I believe the sabbath was given to man before the exodus out of Egypt. Adam and Eve, Noah, Abraham, etc., knew the sabbath in my view. The COI had begun resting in Egypt on there own, without permission, which is what made Pharaoh go nuts.

Where can we find evidence in Scripture that the children of Israel began setting aside the seventh day for rest while in Egypt prior to the exodus? Is this yet another claim based on the opinions of man?

Well, that depends on what one's understanding is of the reason it was given for in the first place I suppose. Up until it was mentioned in Deuteronomy as for remembrance of the exodus, it would have been for the reason mentioned in Exodus 20. As a memorial to creation.

So God's insistence that the sabbath was given as a reminder of the exodus from Egypt was merely an afterthought? Does the passage confirm that this is true:

"Then Moses summoned all Israel and said to them: "Hear, O Israel, the statutes and the ordinances which I am speaking today in your hearing, that you may learn them and observe them carefully. The LORD our God made a covenant with us at Horeb. The LORD did not make this covenant with our fathers, but with us, with all those of us alive here today. The LORD spoke to you face to face at the mountain from the midst of the fire, while I was standing between the LORD and you at that time, to declare to you the word of the LORD; for you were afraid because of the fire and did not go up the mountain. He said, I am the LORD your God who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery. You shall have no other gods before Me. You shall not make for yourself an idol, or any likeness of what is in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the water under the earth. You shall not worship them or serve them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children, and on the third and the fourth generations of those who hate Me, but showing lovingkindness to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments. You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain, for the LORD will not leave him unpunished who takes His name in vain. Observe the sabbath day to keep it holy, as the LORD your God commanded you. Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is a sabbath of the LORD your God; in it you shall not do any work, you or your son or your daughter or your male servant or your female servant or your ox or your donkey or any of your cattle or your sojourner who stays with you, so that your male servant and your female servant may rest as well as you.
You shall remember that you were a slave in the land of Egypt, and the LORD your God brought you out of there by a mighty hand and by an outstretched arm; therefore the LORD your God commanded you to observe the sabbath day."
​

No. The sabbath was part of the covenant, not a sign of the covenant.

What do the Scirptures say:

"The LORD spoke to Moses, saying, But as for you, speak to the sons of Israel, saying, 'You shall surely observe My sabbaths; for this is a sign between Me and you throughout your generations, that you may know that I am the LORD who sanctifies you. 'Therefore you are to observe the sabbath, for it is holy to you. Everyone who profanes it shall surely be put to death; for whoever does any work on it, that person shall be cut off from among his people. 'For six days work may be done, but on the seventh day there is a sabbath of complete rest, holy to the LORD; whoever does any work on the sabbath day shall surely be put to death. So the sons of Israel shall observe the sabbath, to celebrate the sabbath throughout their generations as a perpetual covenant."
​

In the "words of the covenant" that God spoke to the Children of Israel the sabbath was part of that covenant.

Indeed. Just as circumcision was both a part of the covenant with Abraham and a sign of the covenant with Abraham.

Well, in that I don't agree that the sabbath was a sign of the covenant but part of the covenant I would have to disagree.

According to Scripture, it isn't an either/or proposition. The sabbath was both a sign of the covenant and a part of the covenant. This is consistent with the signs of other covenants as well.

There were lots of sabbaths.

Yes, there were. And all of them are listed in Leviticus 23 as holy convocations belonging to God. No distinction is made between them. All included animal sacrifices and all were given by God to Israel.

The continual burnt offering sacrifices were to be performed everyday, not just the sabbath.

Agreed. But a special offering was to be provided during the seventh-day sabbath. This was a unique part of seventh-day sabbath observance. SDAs tell us that the sabbath remains, but God's rules about how it is to be observed do not. Obviously, we'll need to see the Biblical basis for such a teaching. The Bible does not establish two separate weekly sabbaths, one that includes animal sacrifices and one that does not.

I find MH to be a fairly good source for resource material. "Authoritative?" In what sense? Canonical?

You find it to be a valuable resource and I do not. Unless it is authoritative, then it is irrelevant to our conversation.

What is the Spirit telling you?

The Spirit is telling me that I died to the law so that I could be joined with the Spirit and that I am not to commit spiritual adultery with the law.

BFA

 

[djconklin]

The Spirit is telling me that I died to the law

Where does the Bible say that? I believe it says that we are to die to sin, not the law.

 

[Byfaithalone1]

Where does the Bible say that? I believe it says that we are to die to sin, not the law.

Please read Romans 7:1-6. Thanks.

BFA

 

[RND]

Rom 7:1-6 NLT Now, dear brothers and sisters--you who are familiar with the law--don't you know that the law applies only to a person who is still living? Let me illustrate. When a woman marries, the law binds her to her husband as long as he is alive. But if he dies, the laws of marriage no longer apply to her. So while her husband is alive, she would be committing adultery if she married another man. But if her husband dies, she is free from that law and does not commit adultery when she remarries. So this is the point: The law no longer holds you in its power, because you died to its power when you died with Christ on the cross. And now you are united with the one who was raised from the dead. As a result, you can produce good fruit, that is, good deeds for God. When we were controlled by our old nature, sinful desires were at work within us, and the law aroused these evil desires that produced sinful deeds, resulting in death. But now we have been released from the law, for we died with Christ, and we are no longer captive to its power. Now we can really serve God, not in the old way by obeying the letter of the law, but in the new way, by the Spirit.

Clarity is drastically important:

Rom 7:14 The law is good, then. The trouble is not with the law but with me, because I am sold into slavery, with sin as my master.

Rom 7:22 I love God's law with all my heart.

Rom 7:25 Thank God! The answer is in Jesus Christ our Lord. So you see how it is: In my mind I really want to obey God's law, but because of my sinful nature I am a slave to sin.

Rom 8:6 If your sinful nature controls your mind, there is death. But if the Holy Spirit controls your mind, there is life and peace. 7 For the sinful nature is always hostile to God. It never did obey God's laws, and it never will. 8 That's why those who are still under the control of their sinful nature can never please God. 9 But you are not controlled by your sinful nature. You are controlled by the Spirit if you have the Spirit of God living in you. (And remember that those who do not have the Spirit of Christ living in them are not Christians at all.)

 

[Byfaithalone1]

Rom 7:1-6 NLT Now, dear brothers and sisters--you who are familiar with the law--don't you know that the law applies only to a person who is still living? Let me illustrate. When a woman marries, the law binds her to her husband as long as he is alive. But if he dies, the laws of marriage no longer apply to her. So while her husband is alive, she would be committing adultery if she married another man. But if her husband dies, she is free from that law and does not commit adultery when she remarries. So this is the point: The law no longer holds you in its power, because you died to its power when you died with Christ on the cross. And now you are united with the one who was raised from the dead. As a result, you can produce good fruit, that is, good deeds for God. When we were controlled by our old nature, sinful desires were at work within us, and the law aroused these evil desires that produced sinful deeds, resulting in death. But now we have been released from the law, for we died with Christ, and we are no longer captive to its power. Now we can really serve God, not in the old way by obeying the letter of the law, but in the new way, by the Spirit.

Clarity is drastically important:

Rom 7:14 The law is good, then. The trouble is not with the law but with me, because I am sold into slavery, with sin as my master.

Rom 7:22 I love God's law with all my heart.

Rom 7:25 Thank God! The answer is in Jesus Christ our Lord. So you see how it is: In my mind I really want to obey God's law, but because of my sinful nature I am a slave to sin.

Rom 8:6 If your sinful nature controls your mind, there is death. But if the Holy Spirit controls your mind, there is life and peace. 7 For the sinful nature is always hostile to God. It never did obey God's laws, and it never will. 8 That's why those who are still under the control of their sinful nature can never please God. 9 But you are not controlled by your sinful nature. You are controlled by the Spirit if you have the Spirit of God living in you. (And remember that those who do not have the Spirit of Christ living in them are not Christians at all.)

Without question, the fault is with man. It is for this reason that man must die to the law. By the way, Verse 7 makes it quite clear which law we're talking about.

BFA

 

[RND]

Without question, the fault is with man. It is for this reason that man must die to the law. By the way, Verse 7 makes it quite clear which law we're talking about.

BFA

Rom 7:7 Well then, am I suggesting that the law of God is evil? Of course not! The law is not sinful, but it was the law that showed me my sin. I would never have known that coveting is wrong if the law had not said, "Do not covet."

Ten Commandments.

 

[Byfaithalone1]

Rom 7:7 Well then, am I suggesting that the law of God is evil? Of course not! The law is not sinful, but it was the law that showed me my sin. I would never have known that coveting is wrong if the law had not said, "Do not covet."

Ten Commandments.

Exactly. This is the law that is referenced in verses 1-6.

BFA