Focused discussion--Are the Sabbaths of Col 2 weekly or yearly?

[k4c]

[/size]

Good. We agree. Then we should also be able to agree that sin exists even in the absence of law.



If this is true, must we also conclude that the practice of "sacrifice" (including all of the convocations that include sacrifice) was not eternal?



What is the source of your definitions? Does Genesis 2 confirm your theory that the sabbath was set aside for man?



This is an assumption. Until Exodus 16, we have no Biblical confirmation that God asked man to anything different on the seventh day of the week.

However, let's imagine that your assumption is accurate. If man began observing a sabbath during the seventh day of creation week (as you seem to suggest), would we conclude that the seventh day sabbath is eternal or finite?

BFA

The Sabbath was made for man. In other words, mankind.

Mark 2:27 And He said to them, "The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath.

Adam and Eve were the only mankind around back then so the Sabbath was made for them as well. The problem is that mankind soon fell into sin shortly after creation and began his downward spiral away from God and all that God stands for. We even have the first murder in history being commited during a worship service.

There is no mention of Sabbath keeping before Exodus 16 but there is no mention they didn't keep the Sabbath either. God says Abraham keep the commandments. What commandments He is referring to is open for debate. Either way, God says He gave the law on stone because of transgression, which tells us that these things contained in the law should have been kept but they weren't.

The thing we have to understand is that the last six commandments are part of our nature. We know stealing is wrong because when someone steals from us we get mad. But the first four commandments have to be taught to us. We have to learn what pleases God because it's not in us to know these things because we're dead.

The Ten Commandments teach us how to love God and how to love neighbor with a godly love so that those who love God and those who are coming to God can make the needed changes to be a godly people. Without the Law, godly love would be open for interpretation and we can see what that looks like in the world today.

As far as the Sabbath being finite. God blessed the seventh day of creation before sin was in the world, which means it has nothing to do with sin, and we still have seven days in a week.

 

[Byfaithalone1]

The Sabbath was made for man. In other words, mankind.

The verse does not say "mankind." You have merely interpreted it as "mankind" because it fits nicely into your thinking. As a point of fact, the sabbath was made for Israelites (see Exodus 31).

Adam and Eve were the only mankind around back then so the Sabbath was made for them as well.

You assume that God made the sabbath for man at creation. There is no Biblical evidence to support this assumption.

The problem is that mankind soon fell into sin shortly after creation and began his downward spiral away from God and all that God stands for. We even have the first murder in history being commited during a worship service.

A form of worship that you do not yourself follow--correct?

There is no mention of Sabbath keeping before Exodus 16 but there is no mention they didn't keep the Sabbath either.

Agreed. So we can either move forward while acknowledging that the Bible is silent on the matter or we can build an entire system of theology on an assumption. I vote for the former and shy away from the latter.

God says Abraham keep the commandments. What commandments He is referring to is open for debate.

Actually, no it isn't. The things which God commanded Abraham to do are expressly set out in Scripture. We need not wonder on this point. The Bible tells us.

Either way, God says He gave the law on stone because of transgression, which tells us that these things contained in the law should have been kept but they weren't.

No argument here. It is for this reason that a new covenant was established that was completely unlike the old. It is for this reason that the old covenant has faded and is obsolete. It is for this reason that I do not advocate for old covenant practices (though I acknowledge that some find value in them).

The thing we have to understand is that the last six commandments are part of our nature.

My righteousness is as filthy rags. Obedience has never been a part of my nature. I know to do what is right, but I fail to do it.

We know stealing is wrong because when someone steals from us we get mad.

How do we know stealing is wrong? What does John 14 say? Is there ever a time when it is OK to kill? to disobey parents? to withhold the truth? How do we know?

But the first four commandments have to be taught to us.

You seem to believe that there are commandments that come naturally to us. This theory cannot be confirmed by Scripture. Sin is what comes naturally to us.

The Ten Commandments teach us how to love God and how to love neighbor with a godly love so that those who love God and those who are coming to God can make the needed changes to be a godly people.

What do you understand the role of the Holy Spirit to be?

Without the Law, godly love would be open for interpretation and we can see what that looks like in the world today.

One need only read the Old Testament to understand that the days of "the law" were not days of obedience.

As far as the Sabbath being finite. God blessed the seventh day of creation before sin was in the world, which means it has nothing to do with sin, and we still have seven days in a week.

The sabbath had a starting point. None of us are disputing this point. That which has a starting point is by definition NOT ETERNAL. Regardless of when you believe God gave the sabbath to man, it is impossible to argue that the sabbath is eternal.

BFA

 

[k4c]

The verse does not say "mankind." You have merely interpreted it as "mankind" because it fits nicely into your thinking. As a point of fact, the sabbath was made for Israelites (see Exodus 31).


You assume that God made the sabbath for man at creation. There is no Biblical evidence to support this assumption.


A form of worship that you do not yourself follow--correct?

Agreed. So we can either move forward while acknowledging that the Bible is silent on the matter or we can build an entire system of theology on an assumption. I vote for the former and shy away from the latter.


Actually, no it isn't. The things which God commanded Abraham to do are expressly set out in Scripture. We need not wonder on this point. The Bible tells us.


No argument here. It is for this reason that a new covenant was established that was completely unlike the old. It is for this reason that the old covenant has faded and is obsolete. It is for this reason that I do not advocate for old covenant practices (though I acknowledge that some find value in them).

My righteousness is as filthy rags. Obedience has never been a part of my nature. I know to do what is right, but I fail to do it.


How do we know stealing is wrong? What does John 14 say? Is there ever a time when it is OK to kill? to disobey parents? to withhold the truth? How do we know?


You seem to believe that there are commandments that come naturally to us. This theory cannot be confirmed by Scripture. Sin is what comes naturally to us.

What do you understand the role of the Holy Spirit to be?


One need only read the Old Testament to understand that the days of "the law" were not days of obedience.


The sabbath had a starting point. None of us are disputing this point. That which has a starting point is by definition NOT ETERNAL. Regardless of when you believe God gave the sabbath to man, it is impossible to argue that the sabbath is eternal.

BFA

When God created the seventh day and blessed it calling it holy there was such thing as Israel. So to say that God made the Sabbath for Israel is something you are adding to the Scriptures. When the Bible speaks of man, in a general sense, it's referring to mankind.

1 Corinthians 2:9 But as it is written: "Eye has not seen, nor ear heard, nor have entered into the heart of man the things which God has prepared for those who love Him.''

Does this verse exclude woman?

Just because we doen't have God saying, "Thou Shall Rememeber the seventh day to keep it holy" prior to Exodus 16 it does not mean it was not a command of God. We don't have God commanding not to murder, commit adultery, worship other gods, covet and so on prior to Exodus 20 but people were judged and found guilty for violating these things prior to Exodus 20.

There is enough evidence in the the Scriptures, both old and new testaments, to say that the Sabbath was a day that should have been honored prior to Exodus 20.

The seventh day was blessed and sanctified at its creation. Whether man honored it or not does not nullify the fact that the seventh day is a blessed and sanctified day, in other words, set apart as a holy day even before the curse entered in.

When God made known His seventh day Sabbath to sinful man it wasn't a new thing coming into the world.

Nehemiah 9:13-14 "You came down also on Mount Sinai, and spoke with them from heaven, and gave them just ordinances and true laws, good statutes and commandments. You made known to them Your holy Sabbath, and commanded them precepts, statutes and laws, by the hand of Moses Your servant.

The above verse does not say He made the Sabbath at Mt. Sinai, it says He made it known to them. In other words, the Sabbath was alreay in existance.

The first four commandments are for those who love God the last six are for those who love mankind. God wants all ten to be in our hearts because we love God and man.

No one can force anyone to keep the Sabbath holy as God desires it to be kept because it has to be kept as a result of love for God. If there is any other motive for keeping it then it's just ritualism or legalisim of which does not please God. And by the way, the other nine should be kept with the same motive, which is love.

If you choose not to keep the seventh day holy, as God commands in the fourth commandment, that's between you and God. As a matter of fact, if you choose not to keep any of the other nine that is also between you and God.

 

[Byfaithalone1]

When God created the seventh day and blessed it calling it holy there was such thing as Israel.

Agreed. When God gave the sabbath to man, there was such a thing as Isreal (see Exodus 31 and 34).

So to say that God made the Sabbath for Israel is something you are adding to the Scriptures.

Is Exodus 31 "the Scriptures":

"12The LORD spoke to Moses, saying,

13"But as for you, speak to the sons of Israel, saying, 'You shall surely observe My sabbaths; for this is a sign between Me and you throughout your generations, that you may know that I am the LORD who sanctifies you.
14'Therefore you are to observe the sabbath, for it is holy to you. Everyone who profanes it shall surely be put to death; for whoever does any work on it, that person shall be cut off from among his people.
15'For six days work may be done, but on the seventh day there is a sabbath of complete rest, holy to the LORD; whoever does any work on the sabbath day shall surely be put to death.
16'So the sons of Israel shall observe the sabbath, to celebrate the sabbath throughout their generations as a perpetual covenant.'
17"It is a sign between Me and the sons of Israel forever; for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, but on the seventh day He ceased from labor, and was refreshed." 18When He had finished speaking with him upon Mount Sinai, He gave Moses the two tablets of the testimony, tablets of stone, written by the finger of God."
​

Just because we doen't have God saying, "Thou Shall Rememeber the seventh day to keep it holy" prior to Exodus 16 it does not mean it was not a command of God.

Can you show us evidence of men prior to Exodus 31 altering their behavior on the sabbath? For example, can you show us where Adam or Noah or Abraham did anything different on the seventh day?

We don't have God commanding not to murder, commit adultery, worship other gods, covet and so on prior to Exodus 20 but people were judged and found guilty for violating these things prior to Exodus 20.

We have evidence that such principles existed before Exodus 16. We do not have evidence of men behaving differently on the seventh day prior to Exodus 16. Assumptions may be made, but they are merely assumptions.

There is enough evidence in the the Scriptures, both old and new testaments, to say that the Sabbath was a day that should have been honored prior to Exodus

In fact, there is no evidence whatsoever in the Scriptures, in either the old or the new testament, to suggest that men behaved differently on the seventh day prior to Exodus. The Bible is utterly silent on this point. And yet post-canonical men have much to say on the subject.

The seventh day was blessed and sanctified at its creation.

For whom?

Whether man honored it or not does not nullify the fact that the seventh day is a blessed and sanctified day

For whom?

in other words, set apart as a holy day even before the curse entered in

For whom?

When God made known His seventh day Sabbath to sinful man it wasn't a new thing coming into the world.

Did God "make known to them" something that they already knew? If so, why does the verse say that it was "made known" to them? "Made known" hardly supports your position that the sabbath was observed by men prior to Exodus 16.

The first four commandments are for those who love God the last six are for those who love mankind. God wants all ten to be in our hearts because we love God and man.

Are we to die to them just so we may be joined with another and then commit adultery with them?

No one can force anyone to keep the Sabbath holy as God desires it to be kept because it has to be kept as a result of love for God.

How does God desire the sabbath to be kept today? Where would I find the God-given criteria for modern day sabbath observance?

If there is any other motive for keeping it then it's just ritualism or legalisim of which does not please God.

If I believe that--one day, if I do not keep the sabbath, I will receive the mark of the beast--what is my motivation for sabbath keeping?

And by the way, the other nine should be kept with the same motive, which is love.

How many keep the law?

If you choose not to keep the seventh day holy, as God commands in the fourth commandment, that's between you and God.

A very refreshing statement. Thank you.

As a matter of fact, if you choose not to keep any of the other nine that is also between you and God.

I recognize that I am in very good company when it comes to my failure to obey. In fact, if any man claims that he is without sin, there is no truth in him.

BFA

 

[k4c]

[/size]

Agreed. When God gave the sabbath to man, there was such a thing as Isreal (see Exodus 31 and 34).



Is Exodus 31 "the Scriptures":

"12The LORD spoke to Moses, saying,

13"But as for you, speak to the sons of Israel, saying, 'You shall surely observe My sabbaths; for this is a sign between Me and you throughout your generations, that you may know that I am the LORD who sanctifies you.
14'Therefore you are to observe the sabbath, for it is holy to you. Everyone who profanes it shall surely be put to death; for whoever does any work on it, that person shall be cut off from among his people.
15'For six days work may be done, but on the seventh day there is a sabbath of complete rest, holy to the LORD; whoever does any work on the sabbath day shall surely be put to death.
16'So the sons of Israel shall observe the sabbath, to celebrate the sabbath throughout their generations as a perpetual covenant.'
17"It is a sign between Me and the sons of Israel forever; for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, but on the seventh day He ceased from labor, and was refreshed." 18When He had finished speaking with him upon Mount Sinai, He gave Moses the two tablets of the testimony, tablets of stone, written by the finger of God."

​

Can you show us evidence of men prior to Exodus 31 altering their behavior on the sabbath? For example, can you show us where Adam or Noah or Abraham did anything different on the seventh day?



We have evidence that such principles existed before Exodus 16. We do not have evidence of men behaving differently on the seventh day prior to Exodus 16. Assumptions may be made, but they are merely assumptions.




In fact, there is no evidence whatsoever in the Scriptures, in either the old or the new testament, to suggest that men behaved differently on the seventh day prior to Exodus. The Bible is utterly silent on this point. And yet post-canonical men have much to say on the subject.




For whom?



For whom?



For whom?




Did God "make known to them" something that they already knew? If so, why does the verse say that it was "made known" to them? "Made known" hardly supports your position that the sabbath was observed by men prior to Exodus 16.






Are we to die to them just so we may be joined with another and then commit adultery with them?




How does God desire the sabbath to be kept today? Where would I find the God-given criteria for modern day sabbath observance?



If I believe that--one day, if I do not keep the sabbath, I will receive the mark of the beast--what is my motivation for sabbath keeping?



How many keep the law?




A very refreshing statement. Thank you.



I recognize that I am in very good company when it comes to my failure to obey. In fact, if any man claims that he is without sin, there is no truth in him.

BFA

People who were once dead to God but are now alive will have to be taught what pleases God. The first four commandments teach us the very basics as to love towards God.

After the fall of man, man became increasingly sinful to the point that God was sorry that He made man. Sinful man has to be taught the ways of God. This all began when God chose Israel to be His people.

All the laws were give to Israel because God chose Israel to be His representative. God began by giving Israel the Law (the ways of God) but this does not mean the Law was not meant for all people. Adultery is sin to a Jew just as much as it is for a Gentile as is the other nine.

I agree that we all fall short but that does not mean we just continue to sin. To those who love God will struggle with sin because we have a sin nature. But just because we all struggle with sin does not mean I will cheat on my wife.

We don't keep the commandments for justification, we keep them because we love God and know God.

If we say we know Him and don't keep His commandments we are a liar.

1 John 2:3-4 Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments. He who says, "I know Him,'' and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

Why is this? Because anyone who spends even a little time in the Scriptures will soon learn that God whats His people to keep His commandments. So if you say you know Him yet you don't keep His commandments you are a liar and don't really know Him.

The grace of God is that He does not give us what we deserve for breaking His Law, that same grace allows us to keep the Law knowing that we are but dust and do fall into sin.

Romans 6:1-2 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? Certainly not!...

If you have a problem with God's Law you will have to take it up with Him, not me.

1 John 5:2-3 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and keep His commandments. For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome.

Amen and amen...

 

[Byfaithalone1]

God began by giving Israel the Law (the ways of God) but this does not mean the Law was not meant for all people.

Has the Seed come (see Galatians 3)?

Adultery is sin to a Jew just as much as it is for a Gentile as is the other nine.

If I die to the law and if I am joined to another, will I commit adultery with the same law to which I died (see Romans 7)?

I agree that we all fall short but that does not mean we just continue to sin.

If we fall short, we continue to sin.

To those who love God will struggle with sin because we have a sin nature.

Yes, we continue to sin.

But just because we all struggle with sin does not mean I will cheat on my wife.

If you've lusted, you've cheated on your wife.

We don't keep the commandments for justification, we keep them because we love God and know God.

We don't keep the commandments [period; end of sentence.]

If we say we know Him and don't keep His commandments we are a liar.

Which commandment?

"Anyone who claims to be in the light but hates his brother is still in the darkness. Whoever loves his brother lives in the light, and there is nothing in him to make him stumble."
​

Because anyone who spends even a little time in the Scriptures will soon learn that God whats His people to keep His commandments.

I have spent much time in the Scriptures and I have concluded that, when God told Abraham to get rid of the slave woman, He realized that the slave woman would come to represent the covenant that was from Sinai (see Galatians 4).

So if you say you know Him yet you don't keep His commandments you are a liar and don't really know Him.

If I say that I do not sin, there is no truth in me.

The grace of God is that He does not give us what we deserve for breaking His Law, that same grace allows us to keep the Law knowing that we are but dust and do fall into sin.Romans 6:1-2 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? Certainly not!

Since you are a student of the Scriptures, you have undoubtedly read the preceding verses:

" Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all men, because all sinned— 13for before the law was given, sin was in the world. But sin is not taken into account when there is no law. 14Nevertheless, death reigned from the time of Adam to the time of Moses, even over those who did not sin by breaking a command, as did Adam, who was a pattern of the one to come.

15But the gift is not like the trespass. For if the many died by the trespass of the one man, how much more did God's grace and the gift that came by the grace of the one man, Jesus Christ, overflow to the many! 16Again, the gift of God is not like the result of the one man's sin: The judgment followed one sin and brought condemnation, but the gift followed many trespasses and brought justification. 17For if, by the trespass of the one man, death reigned through that one man, how much more will those who receive God's abundant provision of grace and of the gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man, Jesus Christ.
18Consequently, just as the result of one trespass was condemnation for all men, so also the result of one act of righteousness was justification that brings life for all men. 19For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous. 20The law was added so that the trespass might increase. But where sin increased, grace increased all the more, 21so that, just as sin reigned in death, so also grace might reign through righteousness to bring eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord."

​

If you have a problem with God's Law you will have to take it up with Him, not me.

Since I have no problem with God's law and merely recognize that the law was always meant to be temporary, I have no bones to pick with my omnipotent God.

I am pleased that the sabbath is a blessing for you. I wish you every blessing as you strive to keep it.

BFA

 

[k4c]

Has the Seed come (see Galatians 3)?



If I die to the law and if I am joined to another, will I commit adultery with the same law to which I died (see Romans 7)?



If we fall short, we continue to sin.



Yes, we continue to sin.



If you've lusted, you've cheated on your wife.



We don't keep the commandments [period; end of sentence.]



Which commandment?

"Anyone who claims to be in the light but hates his brother is still in the darkness. Whoever loves his brother lives in the light, and there is nothing in him to make him stumble."
​

I have spent much time in the Scriptures and I have concluded that, when God told Abraham to get rid of the slave woman, He realized that the slave woman would come to represent the covenant that was from Sinai (see Galatians 4).



If I say that I do not sin, there is no truth in me.



Since you are a student of the Scriptures, you have undoubtedly read the preceding verses:

" Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all men, because all sinned— 13for before the law was given, sin was in the world. But sin is not taken into account when there is no law. 14Nevertheless, death reigned from the time of Adam to the time of Moses, even over those who did not sin by breaking a command, as did Adam, who was a pattern of the one to come.

15But the gift is not like the trespass. For if the many died by the trespass of the one man, how much more did God's grace and the gift that came by the grace of the one man, Jesus Christ, overflow to the many! 16Again, the gift of God is not like the result of the one man's sin: The judgment followed one sin and brought condemnation, but the gift followed many trespasses and brought justification. 17For if, by the trespass of the one man, death reigned through that one man, how much more will those who receive God's abundant provision of grace and of the gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man, Jesus Christ.
18Consequently, just as the result of one trespass was condemnation for all men, so also the result of one act of righteousness was justification that brings life for all men. 19For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous. 20The law was added so that the trespass might increase. But where sin increased, grace increased all the more, 21so that, just as sin reigned in death, so also grace might reign through righteousness to bring eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord."

​

Since I have no problem with God's law and merely recognize that the law was always meant to be temporary, I have no bones to pick with my omnipotent God.

I am pleased that the sabbath is a blessing for you. I wish you every blessing as you strive to keep it.

BFA

The law on stone is temporary because God will write it on the heart. Once God writes it on the heart you will keep His commandments and they won't be a burden because love will be the motive, not fear as in the old covenant.

I never said I had no sin but God says 1 John 1:9 regarding my sin.

 

[Byfaithalone1]

The law on stone is temporary because God will write it on the heart. Once God writes it on the heart you will keep His commandments and they won't be a burden because love will be the motive, not fear as in the old covenant.

According to 2 Corinthians 3, as the ministry that brings death is fading, which ministry brings life and lasts?

For which ministry will we advocate?

BFA

 

[BobRyan]

The law on stone is temporary because God will write it on the heart. Once God writes it on the heart you will keep His commandments and they won't be a burden because love will be the motive, not fear as in the old covenant.

I never said I had no sin but God says 1 John 1:9 regarding my sin.

Well said.

Same Law - "different Place".

This was true for both OT and NT saints.

In ALL ages - once the saint was born again - the Law of GOD was "written on the heart".

Thus as Paul says - our faith "Establishes the Law of God" because under the New Covenant HIS LAW is written on the tablets of the human heart!

in Christ,

Bob

 

[Byfaithalone1]

Same Law - "different Place".

Hebrews 8 tells us it isn't the same. Who are we to believe?

Galatians 3 tells us the law was added only until the Seed had come. Who are we to believe?

Romans 7 tells us that we are to die to the law so we may be joined with another. Who are we to believe?

In ALL ages - once the saint was born again - the Law of GOD was "written on the heart".

The old is obsolete. The new is not like the old. Who are we to believe?

Thus as Paul says - our faith "Establishes the Law of God" because under the New Covenant HIS LAW is written on the tablets of the human heart!

Romans 3 makes it abundantly clear that man does not establish the law by obedience to it, but rather man establishes the law through faith. Who are we to believe?

For which ministry will we advocate -- the ministry that brings death or the ministry that brings life?

BFA

 

[sentipente]

You guys are stuck on the irrelevant.

 

[k4c]

You guys are stuck on the irrelevant.

Irrelevant?

1 Corinthians 7:19 Circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is nothing, but keeping the commandments of God is what matters.

Revelation 14:12 Here is a call for the endurance of the saints, those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.

I think not...

 

[Byfaithalone1]

Irrelevant?

Per one man's definition of relevance.

Now, if you were to discuss universalism, our friend might have renewed interest in dialogue.

In the meantime, I wonder how many people do what they claim to do with respect to the commandments.

BFA

 

[capbook]

The verse does not say "mankind." You have merely interpreted it as "mankind" because it fits nicely into your thinking. As a point of fact, the sabbath was made for Israelites (see Exodus 31).

The word "man" in that verse does refer to mankind with Greek word as anthrœpos with Strong's number 444 which one of the meaning is mankind in EDNT, please find verse and trasnliteration below;

Mark 2:27
27 And He said to them, "The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath.
NKJV

Transliterated :

Mark 2:27
27
kaí élegen autoís: tó sábbaton diá tón ánthrœpon egéneto kaí ouch ho ánthrœpos diá tó sábbaton:

(from Nestle-Aland, Novum Testamentum Graece, 27 th Revised Edition, edited by Barbara Aland, Kurt Aland, Johannes Karavidopoulos, Carlo M. Martini, and Bruce M. Metzger in cooperation with the Institute for New Testament Textual Research, Münster/Westphalia, © 1993 by Deutsche Bibelgesellschaft, Stuttgart. Used by permission.)


NT:444 anthrœpos human being, person; mankind; man

(from Exegetical Dictionary of the New Testament © 1990 by William B. Eerdmans Publishing Company. All rights reserved.)

Thus man in that verse means mankind.

 

[BobRyan]

Indeed - in Isaiah 66 "all mankind" comes before God to worship "from Sabbath to Sabbath" in the New Earth.

And in Mark 2:27 Christ said that the Sabbath was made by GOD for "mankind and not mankind made for the Sabbath".

And of course in Col 2 - the "Shadow Sabbaths" of Lev 23 are the annual feast days.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[Byfaithalone1]

Indeed - in Isaiah 66 "all mankind" comes before God to worship "from Sabbath to Sabbath" in the New Earth.

This can only be true if we will also be setting aside new moons in the new earth and if we will be gazing upon dead bodies in the new earth.

And in Mark 2:27 Christ said that the Sabbath was made by GOD for "mankind and not mankind made for the Sabbath".

Indeed. How quickly men turn this around and claim that the sabbath will become the dividing wall between those who are of God and those who are not.

And of course in Col 2 - the "Shadow Sabbaths" of Lev 23 are the annual feast days.

So, in your view, Jesus Christ is not our sabbath rest?

BFA

P.S. How interesting it is that not a single translation translates Mark 2:27 to read "mankind." Such a translation would conflict with Exodus 31. Whom are we to believe?

 

[capbook]

BFA

P.S. How interesting it is that not a single translation translates Mark 2:27 to read "mankind." Such a translation would conflict with Exodus 31. Whom are we to believe?

A deeper study with the verse Mark 2:27;

The word "man" in that verse does refer to mankind with Greek word as anthrœpos with Strong's number 444 which one of the meaning is mankind in EDNT, please find verse and trasnliteration below;

Mark 2:27
27 And He said to them, "The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath.
NKJV

Transliterated :

Mark 2:27
kaí élegen autoís: tó sábbaton diá tón ánthrœpon egéneto kaí ouch ho ánthrœpos diá tó sábbaton:

(from Nestle-Aland, Novum Testamentum Graece, 27 th Revised Edition, edited by Barbara Aland, Kurt Aland, Johannes Karavidopoulos, Carlo M. Martini, and Bruce M. Metzger in cooperation with the Institute for New Testament Textual Research, Münster/Westphalia, © 1993 by Deutsche Bibelgesellschaft, Stuttgart. Used by permission.)


NT:444 anthrœpos human being, person; mankind; man

(from Exegetical Dictionary of the New Testament © 1990 by William B. Eerdmans Publishing Company. All rights reserved.)

Thus man in that verse means mankind. I just hope you understand.

 

[ricker]

A deeper study with the verse Mark 2:27;

The word "man" in that verse does refer to mankind with Greek word as anthrœpos with Strong's number 444 which one of the meaning is mankind in EDNT, please find verse and trasnliteration below;

Mark 2:27
27 And He said to them, "The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath.
NKJV

Transliterated :

Mark 2:27
kaí élegen autoís: tó sábbaton diá tón ánthrœpon egéneto kaí ouch ho ánthrœpos diá tó sábbaton:

(from Nestle-Aland, Novum Testamentum Graece, 27 th Revised Edition, edited by Barbara Aland, Kurt Aland, Johannes Karavidopoulos, Carlo M. Martini, and Bruce M. Metzger in cooperation with the Institute for New Testament Textual Research, Münster/Westphalia, © 1993 by Deutsche Bibelgesellschaft, Stuttgart. Used by permission.)


NT:444 anthrœpos human being, person; mankind; man

(from Exegetical Dictionary of the New Testament © 1990 by William B. Eerdmans Publishing Company. All rights reserved.)

Thus man in that verse means mankind. I just hope you understand.

I don't expect you to take my word for it, but just so you know where I am coming from. A couple of years ago I did a little personal study on the greek word and found it could mean either man "specific", or mankind".
I am not giong to retrace my steps to try to prove anything. Just know there are scholars that disagree with your assertion.

 

[capbook]

I don't expect you to take my word for it, but just so you know where I am coming from. A couple of years ago I did a little personal study on the greek word and found it could mean either man "specific", or mankind".
I am not giong to retrace my steps to try to prove anything. Just know there are scholars that disagree with your assertion.

It's not not my mine, it's from;
1. EDNT, and in addition
2. Thayer Greek lexicon.

PC Study Bible Data [FONT=&quot]NT:444[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]NT:444 [/FONT][FONT=&quot]a&nqrwpo$[/FONT][FONT=&quot], ‎[/FONT][FONT=&quot]a)nqrw/pou‎[/FONT][FONT=&quot], ‎[/FONT][FONT=&quot]o( ‎[/FONT][FONT=&quot](perhaps from ‎[/FONT][FONT=&quot]a)nh/r ‎[/FONT][FONT=&quot]and ‎[/FONT][FONT=&quot]w&y‎[/FONT][FONT=&quot], i. e. man's face: Curtius, § 422; Vanicek, p. 9. From Homer down); man. It is used[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]1. [/FONT][FONT=&quot]universally, with reference to the genus or nature, without distinction of sex, a human being, whether male or female: [/FONT][FONT=&quot]John 16:21[/FONT][FONT=&quot]. And in this sense a. with the article, generically, so as to include all human individuals: [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Matt 4:4.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot](from Thayer's Greek Lexicon, PC Study Bible formatted Electronic Database. Copyright © 2006 by Biblesoft, Inc. All rights reserved.)[/FONT]

 

[BobRyan]

This can only be true if we will also be setting aside new moons in the new earth

Indeed that may also be the case since in the New Earth we will have TWO creation events to celebrate. The one in Genesis 1-2:3 ANd the one in Rev 21:1-4.

Were you struggling with that?

So, in your view, Jesus Christ is not our sabbath rest?

In my view - making stuff up without a single scripture to support it - is unsound.

P.S. How interesting it is that not a single translation translates Mark 2:27 to read "mankind." Such a translation would conflict with Exodus 31. Whom are we to believe?

How signifant that ALL Christians admit that "God made MANKIND" and that when "MANKIND was MADE" mankind was not made FOR the Sabbath.

In Christ,

Bob